Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 9th Feb 2012 20:15 UTC
Apple Way back in 2005, only a few months after I joined the OSNews team, I interviewed Wim Schermer, founder and then-owner of the largest chain of Apple "Premium Reseller" stores in The Netherlands, MacSupport (now iCentre). In fact, Wim Schermer was the first Dutchman to buy a Macintosh - the original Macintosh, that is - in The Netherlands, and went on to start his Apple reseller business in 1988. While the interview covered many aspects, one thing always stuck with me: Schermer was concerned about what would happen to his business if Apple were to open an official Apple Store in The Netherlands. Seven years later, his concerns are becoming reality.
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Comment by nsns
by nsns on Thu 9th Feb 2012 20:48 UTC
nsns
Member since:
2012-02-09

"I know I'm not getting an honest shopping experience"

I guess by that you mean "I'm aware I support a dishonest practice."

Whenever shopping becomes an "experience", the person becomes a consumer, and morality goes out the window.

Apple used to make powerful tools for the creative, it now makes toys for the (well-off) masses.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Comment by nsns
by tylerdurden on Thu 9th Feb 2012 21:28 UTC in reply to "Comment by nsns"
tylerdurden Member since:
2009-03-17


Whenever shopping becomes an "experience", the person becomes a consumer, and morality goes out the window.


... as opposed to the other "shopping" which does not involve sellers and buyers or defenestration of morality.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Comment by nsns
by fran on Thu 9th Feb 2012 22:26 UTC in reply to "Comment by nsns"
fran Member since:
2010-08-06

Well Logic is not a toy and it is priced now at a industry shocking $200
(Wonder if this is why Digital performer is going Windows now as well.)
I have never used it but am now tempted.
It even capitulated on the latest version of Final Cut pro to give pro's back the features they want.
Point is they do make some very good professional grade software with a trend to make it much more affordable.
PS.. I am not a Apple shill, have never owned a Apple product but let's give credit where credit is due.

Edited 2012-02-09 22:31 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE: Comment by nsns
by dimosd on Fri 10th Feb 2012 03:40 UTC in reply to "Comment by nsns"
dimosd Member since:
2006-02-10

I guess by that you mean "I'm aware I support a dishonest practice."

Apple used to make powerful tools for the creative, it now makes toys for the (well-off) masses.


In my language, "dishonest practice" used to mean same-sex attracting practices, and "creative" was rather close.

By the way, does OsNews censorship certain words? >-(?

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by nsns
by Neolander on Fri 10th Feb 2012 06:47 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by nsns"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

I think I have seen some very basic automatic censorship on OSnews, stuff like replacing fsck with f--k, but I cannot tell for sure.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Comment by nsns
by MrWeeble on Fri 10th Feb 2012 10:00 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by nsns"
MrWeeble Member since:
2007-04-18

I always assumed that when I saw that, it was people self-censoring. There certainly doesn't seem to be a great deal of that kind of thing on here anyway.

Unfortunately being an natural empiricist, I now have to run some tests.

Edited to remove swear words

Nope, they showed up, even when not logged in

I guess we are all just naturally polite


Edited 2012-02-10 10:02 UTC

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: Comment by nsns
by steogede2 on Sat 11th Feb 2012 16:34 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by nsns"
steogede2 Member since:
2007-08-17

I think I have seen some very basic automatic censorship on OSnews, stuff like replacing fsck with f--k, but I cannot tell for sure.


Why would they want to censor 'fsck'? Or has your original text been (self?) censored?

Reply Score: 1

Local Stores
by tessmonsta on Thu 9th Feb 2012 21:05 UTC
tessmonsta
Member since:
2009-07-16

I wonder how FirstTech (http://www.firsttech.com/) is doing. For the better part of decade they were the only real Mac store in the state. Now they have to compete with the new Apple store open in the heart of Uptown.

Reply Score: 1

Comment by Licaon_Kter
by Licaon_Kter on Thu 9th Feb 2012 21:06 UTC
Licaon_Kter
Member since:
2010-03-19

What about a follow up with Wim Schermer then ? ;)

Reply Score: 2

Nostalgia is clouding your judgement
by leos on Thu 9th Feb 2012 22:50 UTC
leos
Member since:
2005-09-21

I want to buy at an independent reseller so I can have an open and honest chat about Apple and its products, to make sure I'm going home with the right choice, and not Apple's choice


Tell me you don't really believe that. There is very little difference between an Apple reseller and an official Apple store. They're both there to sell you Apple products. You think that Apple reseller is going to point you at a Dell if he thinks that's best for you? Not bloody likely.

Reply Score: 7

Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

"I want to buy at an independent reseller so I can have an open and honest chat about Apple and its products, to make sure I'm going home with the right choice, and not Apple's choice


Tell me you don't really believe that. There is very little difference between an Apple reseller and an official Apple store. They're both there to sell you Apple products. You think that Apple reseller is going to point you at a Dell if he thinks that's best for you? Not bloody likely.
"

An example to illustrate my point.

Went to MacSupport to buy a used iMac. Needed a mouse with it. Sales clerk says: "Do you want an Apple mouse, or a mouse that works?" I told him the latter, and he gave me a third party mouse.

Try getting honest service like that at an Apple Store. Not bloody likely.

Reply Score: 4

Lennie Member since:
2007-09-22

There was one thing I was wondering about at the end of the article.

What would be fair of Apple if they just bought the shops of MacSupport.

If Apple doesn't want their resellers to remain and they need shop space, might as well buy it from them.

Reply Score: 2

MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

Apple doesn't just start a store somewhere, they're very careful to pick the best location and have a building they can shape on the inside like they want to. It all has to be perfect.

And I don't think they gave a damn about other Apple stuff selling shops.

Reply Score: 3

zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Yeah, kinda like the goals of Pizza Hut or Lidl (most any ~supermarket, really) when setting up a new place - but over here we call them things like "run of the mill, prefabricated franchise" (also seemingly evoking, in spirit, panel building)

No, but seriously, "perfect"?... now this really looks you're drinking kool-aid.

Edited 2012-02-12 22:20 UTC

Reply Score: 2

MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

Well, just visit a Pizza Hut, Lidl and an Apple Store. You should notice a difference in effort with regards to the building, out- and inside.

Reply Score: 2

zima Member since:
2005-07-06

First, it goes the other way around - for your, essentially, "Apple is perfection on Earth, beyond mere mortal businesses" silliness to hold any legitimacy, you would have to experience (not to mention document and introduce some sensible metrics vs. different spheres of produce & service offered) at least some non-trivial part of all Pizza Hut, Lidl, and Apple venues (not "a" Pizza Hut and so on)

Secondly, the way you see things, it requires pretty much just few examples to falsify them.
Coincidentally, I know few Apple venues stuffed into - NOT in the most "prestigious" areas within the building - some typical "retail galleries" (or whatever such buildings with dozens of shops are called in given place; but BTW, note the perfidious nature of my local term, suggesting some silly exclusivity by an analogy to art gallery, a tranquil "perfection" of experience).

And again, such "efforts" are know to many as prefabricated trumpery (though, yes, at least the example of mere Pizza Hut is not quite so shoddy - they seem to strive to exploit the potential atmosphere of given building, build upon it, not demolishing what makes it individual)

Edited 2012-02-16 23:21 UTC

Reply Score: 2

kristoph Member since:
2006-01-01

If you go to the Apple store and tell them you want a two or three button button mouse not only will they explain that you can't buy one there but will helpfully provide a list of which mice work best with a Mac (in fact, because Microsoft mice tend to work very well, my local store would send you to the Microsoft store next door).

Maybe it's not like that in the rest of the world but in the US the sales people are happy to help even if you don't wind up buying something from their store.

Now obviously if you go in and you need a PC they will try to convince you a Mac is better but that's why you came to an Apple store in the first place, right?

Reply Score: 4

tylerdurden Member since:
2009-03-17

A single data point a generalization/trend makes not.

Plus Apple Stores do sell 3rd party accessories, mice among them.

Reply Score: 2

leos Member since:
2005-09-21

Went to MacSupport to buy a used iMac. Needed a mouse with it. Sales clerk says: "Do you want an Apple mouse, or a mouse that works?" I told him the latter, and he gave me a third party mouse.

Try getting honest service like that at an Apple Store. Not bloody likely.


Honest? Sounds like the guy is pretty biased to me. I actually enjoy the new apple mice, and switched from a regular mouse to an external apple trackpad on the iMac.

I doubt they're pushing their mice that hard. The Apple online store sells lots of mice from other manufacturers alongside their own.

Reply Score: 2

billysmith35 Member since:
2009-06-20

I have 2 examples I recall immediately:

1) My first Mac Book Pro in 2006 or 2007. I wanted to puchase it with the memory maxed out. The sales associate told me to buy the cheaper version and purchase the memory from Crucial. Saved me a bunch.

2) Looking for an external drive. The sales associate asked me if I used or expected to use FireWire. I said no. He told me to go to Best Buy or another location and buy a drive that didn't have FireWire since all of the ones at Apple Store came with FireWire and were more expensive because of it.

Reply Score: 3

dimosd Member since:
2006-02-10

Most people are much more interested in Apple's software than Apple's hardware, because it costs doubles as much and isn't worth it. 30 Euros for Apple's software sounds about right.
Just a thought that came into my mind.

Reply Score: 3

steogede2 Member since:
2007-08-17

My first Mac Book Pro in 2006 or 2007. I wanted to puchase it with the memory maxed out. The sales associate told me to buy the cheaper version and purchase the memory from Crucial. Saved me a bunch.


You're not kidding it saved you a bunch. I remember looking at the prices of Macs with fully spec'd RAM about that sort of time (don't know if it is still the case) - Apple's markup on the RAM was astronomical.

I hope Apple value that sales person and his(?) great customer service. It's that sort of customer service that keeps me coming back. Sure they would have made more money in the short term on the RAM, but I bet you'd have thought twice about buying an Apple again if you found out you had been ripped off.

Reply Score: 2

Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

I personally have never received any helpful advice from anyone at any electronics store.

Maybe that's why they are all dying off.

http://it.slashdot.org/story/12/02/09/2320247/the-gradual-death-of-...

Reply Score: 3

acobar Member since:
2005-11-15

Well, I got, but it was a long ago.

Some 17+ years ago the Internet was not what it is today: it lacked good specs and pictures about what you would need. Computer Shopper, Byte and other magazines were still strong and offered that. Fast forward, all information and pics needed to make a choice are at a mouse click distance. And that is all you need for computers and its peripherals because we all already know what will be the "user experience" associated to this kind of product or can read all about the differences of the new releases. And it is a kind of product we may very well wait a couple of days to have our hands on. Extend what was said to books.

Cell phones may follow this path once some three or so main systems totally dominate the market. We still want to handle them but I bet that as we become more familiar with the sizes as they stabilize, it will be less required as time goes. The difference here is that they are cheap (or will be) and we are always in a hurry to get them.

That is not what happens with clothes, shoes and cars, at least by now. The "user experience" still can not be satisfactorily presented by just reading and mouse clicks. We still need to wear or drive to have a glimpse of what will be to have them.

So, yes, computer/electronics department stores are expensive and will probably sink.

I hope that general department stores may somehow survive and keep even a small space for computers/electronics but looking at how fast the last changes and the small margins associated, I have some doubts about the value of that "small space" for the store.

Reply Score: 2

polaris20 Member since:
2005-07-06

You're still asking a salesman a question about something you want to purchase, which is your first mistake, especially in this day and age. How do you know the Apple reseller doesn't really think the Apple mouse is better, but makes a spiff on the off brand mouse?

Example: when I worked at a camera shop while I was going to college, we were told that despite Nikon lenses being of higher quality than Sigma lenses we should sell the Sigma lenses. Why? Because we made an extra $10 per sale, in our pocket.

Bottom line is it's 2012: do your 20 minutes Internet research and buy what really is the best product. Don't rely upon a salesman's opinion, be it reseller or Apple.

Reply Score: 2

Comment by PieterGen
by PieterGen on Fri 10th Feb 2012 09:11 UTC
PieterGen
Member since:
2012-01-13

How much technical know how do sales people have anayway? When I go to a (non-Apple) computer store I often know more than the sales people. I have yet to meet a sales guy who can answer questions like:

- "does this BIOS allow me to chose between Optimus, discrete GPU or integrated GPU?"
- "there is a free mSata slot inside, right? What speed does it support?"
- "I suppose that the small SSD is MLC? "

They just don't know. So, I do my homework on the internet :-)

And regarding a previous poster who wrote: "Most people are much more interested in Apple's software than Apple's hardware, because it costs doubles as much and isn't worth it". Maybe in the old days, but nowadays the AirBooks and the Tablets are priced competitevely.

Edited 2012-02-10 09:13 UTC

Reply Score: 2

I too...
by Kivada on Fri 10th Feb 2012 09:34 UTC
Kivada
Member since:
2010-07-07

Miss my 12.1" iBook Snow, the last version with the clear outer housing with paint on the inside, was the only series that let you do great stuff like this http://www.applefritter.com/hacks/tronbook

Miss that old workhorse, only 600Mhz G3 640Mb SDRam and an ATI Rage Mobility GPU but it lasted me 8 YEARS till the power board finally went and I couldn't justify replacing it... Sucks as since Apple hve become assholes I'm no longer buying anything from them, but finding a laptop of comparable build quality to that iBook in that same price range is very hard, that thing had survived many drops from as high as 4 feet on to concrete while running and barely got a scratch.

Used to frequent the Apple support forums on them, the Snow series was a tank, seen several reports of them getting run over by cars and still kept right on working.

Reply Score: 2

No Apple Stores here...yet
by Johann Chua on Fri 10th Feb 2012 10:11 UTC
Johann Chua
Member since:
2005-07-22

Plenty of Apple Premium Resellers in the Philippines (in Metro Manila anyway), but not one official Apple Store, for some reason.

Reply Score: 2

v Nothing to see
by wocowboy on Fri 10th Feb 2012 10:28 UTC
Wallet power
by phoudoin on Fri 10th Feb 2012 11:04 UTC
phoudoin
Member since:
2006-06-09

"I will never buy an Apple product at an official Apple Store".

Wont change anything, Thom. Until a majority of people does the same, it will not change the trend. And the trend is mass market buy Apple stuffs from where this kind of audience will expect to find them: in the brand stores.

A way better effective way to influence Apple behavior:
never buy an Apple product, whatever the store.
Wallet is your (only, probably) ballot. Use it.

It's *that* simple.

Edited 2012-02-10 11:07 UTC

Reply Score: 7

Not an honest shopping experience!?
by scarr on Fri 10th Feb 2012 12:35 UTC
scarr
Member since:
2010-11-07

I don't doubt that Apple isn't playing fair with retailers. That has got to suck for them.

However, Apple stores offer a very honest shopping experience. I'm not sure what you expect... being able to stand there for however long and use the product without harassment... how is that not honest!? It is a rhetorical question, not looking for an answer, really. I've never had any pressure to buy anything at an apple store. I've walked in and out with nothing dozens and dozens of times.

Compare that experience to shopping for a TV at an electronics store. As soon as you stand there for 10 seconds you get harassed. stfu and leave me alone. When you finally decide to buy, they try and take you to the cleaners with add ons (monster cables anyone).

Reply Score: 1

Comment by kaiwai
by kaiwai on Fri 10th Feb 2012 14:28 UTC
kaiwai
Member since:
2005-07-06

Beat me with a 'cry me a river' stick if you wish given that I've yet to see a single reseller for Apple who didn't make purchasing a Mac a complete pain in the ass. It truly is amazing that I can go into Noel Leeming, a major reseller of Mac products and every single time they never have ANY products in stock. I then go into Harvey Norman and again same situation. I then go to Dick Smith - another major reseller and same situation. I go into Yoobee (formally known as Magnummac) and same situation. Each of them saying, "well, we can order it in for you and it'll take 3-5 working days" - hey dipsh-t, I want the computer NOW, that is the reason I am coming to a retailer - so I can pay cash and carry it out on the same day, if I am going to wait 3-5 days then I might as well jump onto apple.co.nz/store and order it online with free delivery direct from Apple!

Sorry but this is a consistent crappy experience I've see across the board - is it a uniquely NZ experience? I had the same experience when I lived in Australia. It really is horrible and I can't wait till Apple steam rolls these resellers and replaces them with their own retail chain because quite frankly the dicking around just to purchase a Mac through a retailer these days is akin to getting teeth pulled without an anaesthetic. The resellers have done a horrible job for Apple and quite frankly have been a hinderance to further adoption of the Mac platform.

Edited 2012-02-10 14:29 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by kaiwai
by Thom_Holwerda on Fri 10th Feb 2012 15:16 UTC in reply to "Comment by kaiwai"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

They have low stock BECAUSE of Apple. Didn't you read?

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by kaiwai
by kaiwai on Fri 10th Feb 2012 16:27 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by kaiwai"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

They have low stock BECAUSE of Apple. Didn't you read?


There are no Apple Stores in New Zealand, it is all done via resellers.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by kaiwai
by earksiinni on Fri 10th Feb 2012 23:30 UTC in reply to "Comment by kaiwai"
earksiinni Member since:
2009-03-27

Noel Leeming? Harvey Norman? Dick Smith? Yoobee, formally known as Magnummac?????

NZ electronics store names rule!

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by kaiwai
by acobar on Mon 13th Feb 2012 00:19 UTC in reply to "Comment by kaiwai"
acobar Member since:
2005-11-15

Hum, let me see ,,

If I go to buy a new car it usually takes some days to get exactly what I want (color, accessories and all).

Same for good DSLR cameras.

My personal computers are made of parts I cherry pick (desktops), but servers and laptops must be ordered.

Now, even though they may have more models available on their Apple stores, I really doubt they will have always the specs you want.

Your argument looks more like of a spoiled child than a rational one.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by kaiwai
by kaiwai on Mon 13th Feb 2012 00:36 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by kaiwai"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

Hum, let me see ,,

If I go to buy a new car it usually takes some days to get exactly what I want (color, accessories and all).

Same for good DSLR cameras.

My personal computers are made of parts I cherry pick (desktops), but servers and laptops must be ordered.

Now, even though they may have more models available on their Apple stores, I really doubt they will have always the specs you want.

Your argument looks more like of a spoiled child than a rational one.


Talk about missing the point - I want the bog standard retail edition of MacBook Pro or iMac; if they can keep 2-3 of each when it comes to the other PC laptops then they can bloody well do the same when it comes to the main selling items of the MacBook Pro. Sure, 17 inch would be a bit of a niche purchase and I can understand why they would have to order away but I do expect at least for them to have the standard 13 and 15inch models in stock and available to be carried out on the day of purchase.

Your example makes absolutely no sense what so ever - you're comparing custom built computers based on what you want vs. what I want which is simply the bog standard models being offered on the floor and available to be carried out on the same day of purchase.

Next time read the post in its entirety rather than jumping to the end believing in know what the poster is talking about - when you assume you make an ass out of u and me.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment by kaiwai
by acobar on Mon 13th Feb 2012 01:52 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by kaiwai"
acobar Member since:
2005-11-15

Just to recap what you said:

.. I want the computer NOW, that is the reason I am coming to a retailer - so I can pay cash and carry it out on the same day ..


Forgive me if I am wrong but from your assertive you probably already know the product and, thinking about what computers are for us now, may very well dispense the "play with it" user experience associated. I really can not see how it is a terrible service for Apple in your case. That is why I wrote the last sentence. I am sorry you can not see the parallel, but for me it is there: a kid goes with his father to get a toy he knows and want and then got frustrated because it is not at hand inside the store to be picked.

You are also ignoring market realities. Computers get "obsolete" very quickly, on most places Apple computers sales are negligible (relatively) and resellers must pick what gives the best return on investment. I bet that if the demand was there, they may had some ready to be picked.

Edited 2012-02-13 01:59 UTC

Reply Score: 2

If the resellers were smart
by shotsman on Fri 10th Feb 2012 15:35 UTC
shotsman
Member since:
2005-07-22

Then they'd compliment the retail stores by servicing the increasing numbers of Business Users.

Reply Score: 2

v All aboard! All aboard!
by frderi on Sat 11th Feb 2012 15:56 UTC
RE: All aboard! All aboard!
by MOS6510 on Mon 13th Feb 2012 06:20 UTC in reply to "All aboard! All aboard!"
MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

So it's more likely those two dealers are in trouble because the number of places you can get Apple stuff has increased so much.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: All aboard! All aboard!
by frderi on Mon 13th Feb 2012 18:30 UTC in reply to "RE: All aboard! All aboard!"
frderi Member since:
2011-06-17

So it's more likely those two dealers are in trouble because the number of places you can get Apple stuff has increased so much.


That's also a probability. Wat is certain is that the topic of the original article is a gross generalization and hardly the accurate representation of the state of Apple dealers in Europe it claims to be.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: All aboard! All aboard!
by MOS6510 on Mon 13th Feb 2012 18:32 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: All aboard! All aboard!"
MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

Considering who wrote it, does it surprise you? :-)

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: All aboard! All aboard!
by frderi on Mon 13th Feb 2012 22:11 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: All aboard! All aboard!"
frderi Member since:
2011-06-17

Considering who wrote it, does it surprise you?


Not one bit. Any chance Thom sees to throw dirt at Apple here at OSBlog, he takes with both hands. He's the type of person that rather goes on to promote copycat companies like Samsung which shamelessly rip off established products of Nokia, Apple and Blackberry instead of promoting true innovation. If he were old enough to live trough the eighties during the launch of the IBM PC like we were, he'd be your typical PC clone zealot.

In any case, he's doing his dutch countrymens stereotype a lot of justice : speaking before thinking, being loud, and generally being obnoxious.

Edited 2012-02-13 22:13 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: All aboard! All aboard!
by MOS6510 on Mon 13th Feb 2012 22:23 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: All aboard! All aboard!"
MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

Well, there are arguments on both sides I guess.

Thom can defend Google and Samsung, the don't care. We can put thing straight for Apple, they don't care.

But it keeps us busy and coming back.

The 80s werd the golden age of computers and innovation. The PC and the clones killed that.

I'd buy a ride on a time machine back to the 80s.

And not all Dutch are annoying, they just like to have heroes and bad guys.

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: All aboard! All aboard!
by zima on Thu 16th Feb 2012 23:58 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: All aboard! All aboard!"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

The 80s werd the golden age of computers and innovation. The PC and the clones killed that.

I'd buy a ride on a time machine back to the 80s.

You're looking at it through rose (cinder?) colored glasses. Badly.

Sure, there were all those different architectures, but they were severely limited in what one could actually do with a computer.
Yeah, explosion of many approaches (natural for any early field), but most of them were not worth to keep around; just like with golden age of comic books, or arcades, or specific kinds of cinema, and so on.

The kind of progress brought on with the PC and clones made computers really useful, opened real ways to tinker, eventually brought to the masses / lowered costs of advanced capabilities. And anyway, microcontrollers of today are quite diverse (but available at much lower prices than was the case in the 80s, to tinker), and quite universally more capable than microcomputers of the 80s...
Overall, digital revolution is, at large, only the thing of the "noughties" (and still ongoing in this decade, for most of human population)


Essentially, you sort of cherish a retreat from the state of affairs where around 30% of the world population has access to PC; you long for circumstances where maybe only 3% could have it (but I guess that's fine with you, since you would be one of the few "privileged" people)

But then, you being a fan of perfect Apple, I can see why you would like such state of affairs... that's pretty much a stated goal of Apple - they completely openly claim their unwillingness to target "lesser" people (the majority of humanity with not enough disposable income) and their unwillingness to license any supposed innovation they bring to the market (preferring to outright block other entities, other companies from using similar things, from bringing those things to people who are not good enough for Apple)

Reply Score: 2

In other words ...
by pandronic on Mon 13th Feb 2012 10:27 UTC
pandronic
Member since:
2006-05-18

In other words ...

Apple is a money hungry entity with absolutely no moral fiber or loyalty. Cue the "but it's a corporation, it's legal obligation is to produce money". Well that's the problem - people have given certain rights to corporations to produce money and goods back for the people. But at the moment, corporations seem to have a mind of their own, working for their own good and many times not even the good of the people that own their shares.

It seems that the only people profiting from this are sociopath CEOs like Steve Jobs or Larry Ellison.

Reply Score: 2

Comment by zima
by zima on Thu 16th Feb 2012 23:59 UTC
zima
Member since:
2005-07-06

Shopping at MacSupport - later renamed iCentre per Apple's demands - was a delight. In 2004 and 2005, most of the people in the shop, including the employees, were still long-time Apple fans, people who had stuck with the company during its dark decade. These people had an odd kind of love-hate relationship with Apple and its products; none of that undying devotion nonsense you see with many of the Apple fans that joined the party over the past few years.

I don't know Thom, maybe those are two sides of the same coin ...just "hidden" / more moderate when they can't so easily promulgate their follies (when they can be much more readily stricken down), awoken when the time is "right"?

Yes, with a notable touch of bitterness - still, those were the devotees who supported for many years a clearly inferior and more expensive product, there's little sense in that... (come on, buying en masse the flawed like that OS8 to "help save Apple", to the point of refusing to pirate it? http://www.forbes.com/1997/08/08/column.html ...that's a bit insane)

Edited 2012-02-17 00:12 UTC

Reply Score: 2