Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 2nd Mar 2012 16:16 UTC
Windows Wednesday was the big day for Microsoft - the largest overhaul of its operating system since Windows 95 (heck, I'd argue the overhaul is far larger than Windows 95) went into consumer preview. I've been running it on my Asus ZenBook since its release, and in all honesty, it's not as arduous as I expected. I'm not planning on doing a full review, but I do want to mention a number of things - both positive and negative - that stood out to me.
Order by: Score:
Window management is a MUST
by wocowboy on Fri 2nd Mar 2012 16:59 UTC
wocowboy
Member since:
2006-06-01

I too have been playing with Windows 8, and am enjoying it right up to a certain point. I need to have several applications open at the same time on my desktop, resizing them as needed on occasion, and the hassle of having to switch to the Desktop and back again is just a HUGE pain with Windows 8. That may change as applications are re-written for Metro, but window management does not exist in Metro, things are either full-screen or not there at all except in a minimal form, so this is a no-go for me at the current time.

Reply Score: 2

modmans2ndcoming Member since:
2005-11-09

I think hotkeys that will let you switch between apps or the start screen need to be available. I thought I read somewhere that Windows+something brings up the charms, but I couldn't get it up...plus having a window switcher would be nice in the charms.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Window management is a MUST
by n4cer on Sat 3rd Mar 2012 20:01 UTC in reply to "RE: Window management is a MUST"
n4cer Member since:
2005-07-06

Win+C opens the Charms Bar, or move the mouse to the top-right corner and down, or bottom-right corner and up.

Alt+Tab or Win+Tab (and Alt+Shift+Tab/Win+Shift+Tab) switch between apps, or move the mouse to the top-left corner then down, or bottom-left corner then up to select from all running apps, or move it to the top-left corner and click to switch between apps one at a time.

Reply Score: 3

delta0.delta0 Member since:
2010-06-01

tap twice and do the jig you say ? ahh me lucky charms ...

Reply Score: 1

I only like the new task manager
by kragil on Fri 2nd Mar 2012 17:05 UTC
kragil
Member since:
2006-01-04

I the differences between desktop and metro make me want to go back to something sane. I used it a day and I still hate it. I don't think there will be any productivity metro apps that I will like.
Under the hood it doesn't feel like much has changed on my hardware.

Bottom line: I will sit this one out like I did with Vista. Windows is only a glorified games starter for me anyways.

And I certainly will not tell normal users to switch, 7 is a much better choice for users IMO (for desktops and laptops that is)

Reply Score: 4

modmans2ndcoming Member since:
2005-11-09

I am going to make the switch. I like change and I expect the window management to get better for Keyboard and Mouse use.

And I like the deep integration of the social and communication. It makes the OS feel more whole than lots of separate things.

MS will want to work with companies like Steam and others to get their popular software set up for Metro use and integration with the Games section and if they release at the end of this year, I think they will have a nice tight system.

Reply Score: 3

kragil Member since:
2006-01-04

Expecting Steam to be integrated into Metros games section is like expecting Apple to release Android apps IMO.

Metro feels so separate from the desktop. You can't even drag and drop stuff from one to the other.

In desktop mode the active corner always get in my way when closing applications or starting the one in the bottom left corner.

Why should I live with all these annoyances that I don't like? As I said I will sit this one out. Just as with Vista MS introduces a lot of stuff, but without polish. Windows 9 might be better and so long Windows 7 is just fine.

And contrary to what peoples gut feeling tells them Windows 7 is exactly the same speed as Windows 8. No difference whatsoever, a speed increase only exists is imagination land.

Reply Score: 3

modmans2ndcoming Member since:
2005-11-09

Desktop is a legacy part of the system. I'm not sure I understand what your issue is.

If you are desktop oriented, then the start screen behaves like a start menu. i'm not sure how much more integrated it can feel.

Reply Score: 2

Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

And contrary to what peoples gut feeling tells them Windows 7 is exactly the same speed as Windows 8. No difference whatsoever, a speed increase only exists is imagination land.


I can't speak for Windows 7 vs Windows 8 speed or snappiness, but going from Vista to Windows 8 on my laptop was a huge improvement! The only time I noticed any interface lag at all was when I lost my WiFi connection while trying to update People.

Firefox 10 under Vista used to take about 15 seconds for a cold start or about 5 seconds for a warm start. Under Windows 8 a cold start is less than 3 seconds and a warm start is less than a second. This is on a Core2Duo T6400 machine with 4GB of DDR2 RAM. In other words, not exactly the fastest machine on the block even when it came out three years ago.

I'm certainly enjoying Windows 8 on my laptop, with only a few glitches most likely related to being brand new, unreleased software. Perhaps it's because I'm already so used to Metro on my phone and Xbox, but I'm calling this one a winner if Microsoft can work out the bugs and drop in a couple of basic, common sense features. That said, I do think if I decide to buy the OS it will be one of the Professional editions, or perhaps Ultimate. I'd love to be able to work in "classic" mode for most things and switch to Metro for entertainment, as opposed to the current feeling that the OS wants to stay in Metro whenever possible.

Reply Score: 2

zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Expecting Steam to be integrated into Metros games section is like expecting Apple to release Android apps IMO.

Or maybe like like Google having apps on iOS, or MS on OSX...

PS.
And contrary to what peoples gut feeling tells them Windows 7 is exactly the same speed as Windows 8. No difference whatsoever, a speed increase only exists is imagination land.

Well I don't think many expect higher actual performance, benchmark numbers, and such (though some certainly do expect it...) - but it's entirely conceivable that the system is now tweaked, "acts" and feels smoother to the user (like so many claim in BeOS threads, here)

Edited 2012-03-09 23:45 UTC

Reply Score: 2

Search / Spellcheck
by n4cer on Fri 2nd Mar 2012 17:09 UTC
n4cer
Member since:
2005-07-06

You can't switch search engines in Internet Explorer. Using Bing makes me feel dirty, and the results always feel a little bit off. Please, give me the option to use DuckDuckGo and Google, please.


From Desktop IE, have you tried clicking the magnifying glass in the address bar, then clicking Add.., or Tools | Manage add-ons | Search Providers | Find more search providers?

For spellcheck, try the language control panel.
The Advanced settings panel lists some overrides that may help.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Search / Spellcheck
by shotsman on Sat 3rd Mar 2012 09:51 UTC in reply to "Search / Spellcheck"
shotsman Member since:
2005-07-22

They are deliberately making it hard to change search engine.
I guess they didn't learn anything from their bad experience in Europe over browser choice.
My guess is that Google's lawyers (and other search engines) will be looking at this very closely.

I only use IE if I really have to. It just gets in my face (like Windows 7 with its nag (you need to authorize this copy/move/delete screens. Fuck you MS, I'm an admin. Just let me get on with work won't ya?)

From all the reports I've seen they seem to be going all out to make Win 8 as unusable as possible for the majority of users. Metro could just be the killer app that brings MS to its knees.

Long live Metro! (sic)

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Search / Spellcheck
by lucas_maximus on Sat 3rd Mar 2012 16:33 UTC in reply to "RE: Search / Spellcheck"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

If you don't want to nag you just turn off UAC ... FFS people continue to make up complaints about an OS that really has very few problems.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Search / Spellcheck
by Morgan on Mon 5th Mar 2012 22:10 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Search / Spellcheck"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

Indeed, Gnome 3 asks for my login password before letting me put in a new WiFi password. That has tripped me up more than once, and is certainly more annoying than Windows 7 occasionally needing an extra button click.

I haven't even bothered with turning off or lowering UAC on my desktop machine, as it's not often enough to be a bother to me (unlike how it was in Vista).

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Search / Spellcheck
by zlynx on Tue 6th Mar 2012 21:18 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Search / Spellcheck"
zlynx Member since:
2005-07-20

Sounds like your keychain got out of sync somehow. You may need to go into the keychain management tool and make sure your "login" keychain is set to default. It is supposed to get unlocked with the login password automatically, at login.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Search / Spellcheck
by Morgan on Tue 6th Mar 2012 21:23 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Search / Spellcheck"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

That was the first thing I thought of, as I've run into that issue with Ubuntu more than once. But the issue persists even after completely resetting my keychain. I don't have the issue with Xfce or KDE, but I don't use those DEs anymore now that I've gotten good with Gnome 3.

Thank you for the suggestion anyway!

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Search / Spellcheck
by n4cer on Sat 3rd Mar 2012 21:04 UTC in reply to "RE: Search / Spellcheck"
n4cer Member since:
2005-07-06

Difficult?
It's 3 clicks.
1. Search button (Magnifier)
2. Add
3. Select your desired provider.

Reply Score: 3

Thanks for reviewing
by inside0ut on Fri 2nd Mar 2012 17:20 UTC
inside0ut
Member since:
2011-12-24

Thanks for reviewing, it seems to be the default to just bash away on the alt-OS scene. My experiences are pretty much the same, some problems, some interesting stuff. This preview is far ahead of the last, most of my issues now are with some obvious beta bugs with the new metro apps.

Having my desktop up and docking say, the messenger app to the right I thought was pretty cool- I'm not sure it's the death of the windows desktop, that felt enhanced.

I think change will freak some people out and likely loose some users, but I don't think nearly as many if they keep doing the same thing they've done for the last two decades

Reply Score: 1

Comment by ilovebeer
by ilovebeer on Fri 2nd Mar 2012 17:24 UTC
ilovebeer
Member since:
2011-08-08

I tried to install it in VMWare but the installer kept crashing for some unknown reason and seemed to be stuck in an endless loop of crash->reboot. I didn't investigate why as I ran out of time.

It seems that many who doubted it have been pleasantly surprised by its potential and tend to agree that it could turn out bad, or may very well turn out good.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by ilovebeer
by phoenix on Fri 2nd Mar 2012 19:24 UTC in reply to "Comment by ilovebeer"
phoenix Member since:
2005-07-11

Tried loading both the 32-bit and 64-bit ISOs in Microsoft VirtualPC on Windows 7 ... and it just crashes. And the crash screen is even less helpful now that it used to be.

You'd think Microsoft would test a Microsoft product running inside of another Microsoft product running on top of a Microsoft product. ;)

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Comment by ilovebeer
by n4cer on Fri 2nd Mar 2012 20:25 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by ilovebeer"
n4cer Member since:
2005-07-06

Virtual PC only supports 32-bit guests, but besides that, I think it's been obviated by Hyper-V (which doesn't help if your CPU doesn't have the necessary extensions to run it [plus Windows 8 is the first client release to include it]).

VirtualBox should work.
https://www.virtualbox.org/

Or you can try running it natively from a VHD.
http://blogs.technet.com/b/virtualization/archive/2009/05/14/native...

http://forums.techarena.in/guides-tutorials/1175447.htm

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by ilovebeer
by ichi on Fri 2nd Mar 2012 22:27 UTC in reply to "Comment by ilovebeer"
ichi Member since:
2007-03-06

Try removing the floppy device from the VM properties. I had the same problem and that fixed it.

I think it has something to do with Windows8 assuming for some reason that a floppy means that you want to do an automated install, and it crashes there.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by ilovebeer
by xeoron on Sun 4th Mar 2012 21:37 UTC in reply to "Comment by ilovebeer"
xeoron Member since:
2007-03-25

I had the same problems with Virtual Box and Virtual PC. It would have been nice if MS released a VM version

Reply Score: 1

25-75 split
by sukru on Fri 2nd Mar 2012 17:26 UTC
sukru
Member since:
2006-11-19

I was not expecting this, however personally I found the 25-75 split very useful.

It's possible to dock an application (like email, or calendar) to the side, and work regularly with your desktop. If you have (like most laptops), lots of wide space wasted (thanks to today's 16:9 screens), it's a nice addition.

However I wish they had gone further with this "tiling" window manager approach. While pressing "Start-." "Start-D" to dock the current app to left, and have the desktop ready on the rest of the screen, I wish we had more control, like docking multiple things, or docking to the bottom.

Reply Score: 4

RE: 25-75 split
by viton on Sun 4th Mar 2012 03:09 UTC in reply to "25-75 split"
viton Member since:
2005-08-09

lots of wide space wasted (thanks to today's 16:9 screens), it's a nice addition.

Heh. I'd like to have a 2:1 monitor. 16:9 is not wide enough =)
IDEs or browser augmented with TreeStyleTabs is crying for moar horizontal space.

Reply Score: 2

Netbook
by Narishma on Fri 2nd Mar 2012 18:12 UTC
Narishma
Member since:
2005-07-06

I installed it on my netbook. It has a screen resolution of 1024x600, like every netbook I've ever seen. For some reason, no Metro app will start unless you have a screen resolution of 1024x768 or more, so I'm limited to the standard desktop applications.
I googled a bit and found an ugly registry hack so I can choose a resolution higher than what the screen supports and Windows 8 will downscale it. Unfortunately this makes text all blurry and squashed and difficult to read.
I'll keep at it for a few more days to see if I'll get used to the new interface but it doesn't look good so far.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Netbook
by gan17 on Fri 2nd Mar 2012 18:56 UTC in reply to "Netbook"
gan17 Member since:
2008-06-03

I'm had the exact same problems you're having, and couldn't find a solution (I dodn't try too hard, in all fairness). Kinda miffed cos the only thing that I wanted to try was the Matro interface. ;)

It does seem pretty nippy on netbook hardware, though. Not quite ArchLinux + TilingWM bleeding fast, but faster than any other version of Windows and most Gnome or KDE based "everything included" Linux distros I've had installed on this little thing at one time or another.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Netbook
by Bishi on Sun 4th Mar 2012 12:21 UTC in reply to "RE: Netbook"
Bishi Member since:
2009-08-27

If you want to test the Metro apps on your netbook, is possible to install a graphics driver that allows to set a screen resolution beyond the resolution of the screen. Some text will be distorted, especially on the desktop, but Metro apps will look fine.

Anyways, Windows 8 is astonishingly fast on a netbook. Faster than Windows 7, and way faster than Windows XP.

Reply Score: 1

I just want to know ...
by WorknMan on Fri 2nd Mar 2012 18:23 UTC
WorknMan
Member since:
2005-11-13

How do you get the Start menu back, boot straight into 'classic', and bypass the toy desktop?

Reply Score: 9

RE: I just want to know ...
by righard on Fri 2nd Mar 2012 21:10 UTC in reply to "I just want to know ..."
righard Member since:
2007-12-26

Revert to Windows 7 ;)

Reply Score: 3

RE: I just want to know ...
by Pugetropolis on Fri 2nd Mar 2012 21:43 UTC in reply to "I just want to know ..."
Pugetropolis Member since:
2007-09-27

I'd like to see Microsoft bring the option of the Vista/7 start menu back. I remember that someone had recreated it for XP, and called it ViStart. The installer will drop two pieces of crapware onto the system and a toolbar in IE, which can all be removed.

I will not be Delphi'd into liking the Metro interface. It's appropriate for tablets and phones.

Reply Score: 3

modmans2ndcoming Member since:
2005-11-09

and works well for desktops.

Seriously. The start screen is amazingly functional.

Reply Score: 2

Poseidon
Member since:
2009-10-31

I am absolutely skipping it. There is no gain for me switching from windows 7 to 8 if the whole desktop paradigm is shifting for the sake of integrating it with tablets. I don't use tablets for anything serious, and when I want to get stuff done, I just run an app launcher and powershell/SSH.

Might be great with the responsiveness or whatever, but I am not part of the crowd this OS attracts.

Reply Score: 4

modmans2ndcoming Member since:
2005-11-09

who said that is the purpose of the UI change?

Reply Score: 2

Yep, it's fast and works well...
by jbauer on Fri 2nd Mar 2012 18:47 UTC
jbauer
Member since:
2005-07-06

Now, I'll have it without all the Metro please...

Reply Score: 9

v Now I am convinced...
by Geronimo72 on Fri 2nd Mar 2012 18:50 UTC
RE: Now I am convinced...
by lucas_maximus on Sun 4th Mar 2012 11:18 UTC in reply to "Now I am convinced..."
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

Me and Thom are part of a crack team of Microsoft $hillers ... He writes the articles and I troll in the comments.

Microsoft sends a dumper trick of dollar bills into my Olympic sized swimming pool once a week.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Now I am convinced...
by Neolander on Sun 4th Mar 2012 11:21 UTC in reply to "RE: Now I am convinced..."
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

Hah ! I knew that to troll so fluently, you had to do it for a living ;)

Reply Score: 4

Comment by Drumhellar
by Drumhellar on Fri 2nd Mar 2012 19:50 UTC
Drumhellar
Member since:
2005-07-12

As I spend more and more time using it, the start screen bothers me less and less. I do know that I felt the same way about the classic start menu vs. the newer, expanded start menu that was introduced in XP, improved in Vista, and mandated in 7.

I was initially upset that I couldn't switch to the classic start with 7, but now that I'm used to it, I couldn't go back. I suspect I'll eventually feel this way about the start screen. I mean, there is no reason why the app launcher should be confined to just a small segment of the screen, especially when the start screen can both display more applications AND display more tiles. I do miss the presence of the start button, but mainly for aesthetic reasons. 90% of the time I launch a program, it's either by clicking the pinned icon on the taskbar, or hitting the windows key and typing to find the app I want. This behavior isn't affected one bit by removal of the start button. The other 10% of the time, I launch apps the old way. I think I do this just because nearly 15 years of habit won't die completely.

Thanks for your comments on how 8 treats multi-touch trackpads. My mouses goes wherever my laptop does, but I don't always use it. I was wondering if Win8 treats the trackpad as a proxy for touchscreen, like OSX seems to do, but I'm disappointed that it doesn't. Maybe this behavior will change by release time?

EDIT: I've only recently used the CP in VMWare, which is currently producing incorrect behavior when I use the mutli-touch features of my trackpad. I haven't yet investigated how to improve integration.

Right now, I'm debating on whether or not to install it as my primary OS. Maybe in a couple weeks I'll give it a shot, since I want to try out the Hyper-V stuff.

Edited 2012-03-02 19:52 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE: Comment by Drumhellar
by modmans2ndcoming on Sat 3rd Mar 2012 01:22 UTC in reply to "Comment by Drumhellar"
modmans2ndcoming Member since:
2005-11-09

I decided to put it on my Laptop. It is an older dual core pentium (core 2 era) so it should give me a good idea of how well it will work in "normal" use.

I like the idea of the new paradigm and how it pretty much throws away the desktop metaphor.

Reply Score: 2

...
by Hiev on Fri 2nd Mar 2012 19:58 UTC
Hiev
Member since:
2005-09-27

I don't know, I like the GNOME 3 way better.

Reply Score: 4

Comment by MOS6510
by MOS6510 on Fri 2nd Mar 2012 20:36 UTC
MOS6510
Member since:
2011-05-12

I can imagine Metro working on a tablet, phone or any touch based device. On a non-touchable device it just doesn't work for me.

It seems like there are two GUIs, Metro and the traditional Windows desktop. It doesn't feel like it's one system, rather two worlds.

I'm a Mac person, but recently I started playing with Windows 7 and so far it hasn't started depressing or annoying me like Windows 3.0 to Vista did (well, the Live Messenger does annoy me). It's fast, faster than XP on the same hardware (at least in my personal observation based on a few machines). To me it seemed Microsoft finally found the Right Path.

So I expected Windows 8 to be a next step on that path, but so far it seems it's Windows 7 (great!) + Metro (no!) added to it. At least make it an option you can turn off and use the classic desktop as default.

Let's hope Apple takes notice and learns it doesn't make sense to make your desktop OS (OS X) look/feel/work like your mobile OS devices (iOS).

Reply Score: 6

RE: Comment by MOS6510
by modmans2ndcoming on Sat 3rd Mar 2012 01:24 UTC in reply to "Comment by MOS6510"
modmans2ndcoming Member since:
2005-11-09

I think you will be wrong. If MS makes some minor modifications to the input device functionality, it will be 100% usable and more functional than the standard desktop.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by MOS6510
by modmans2ndcoming on Sat 3rd Mar 2012 06:16 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by MOS6510"
modmans2ndcoming Member since:
2005-11-09

really people. It is annoying to get modded down constantly by someone who simply disagrees with you. Try commenting rather than modding inappropriately This is not Digg.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Comment by MOS6510
by Dave_K on Sun 4th Mar 2012 04:03 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by MOS6510"
Dave_K Member since:
2005-11-16

How on earth can a GUI that restricts the user to two tiled windows be more functional than a standard desktop?

It's inherently dumbed down and restrictive. Acceptable for a tablet/netbook, but ridiculously crippled for a desktop.

No amount of tweaking it will fix the obvious limitations. Microsoft will need to keep the standard desktop available for those of us who actually want to work efficiently on our computers. Which means keeping the inconsistency that goes with two radically different GUIs being stitched together in one OS.

Reply Score: 6

RE[3]: Comment by MOS6510
by modmans2ndcoming on Mon 5th Mar 2012 03:34 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by MOS6510"
modmans2ndcoming Member since:
2005-11-09

I said 100% functional, not more functional, and for most people, it will be more functional because most people work in full screen mode.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Comment by MOS6510
by Dave_K on Mon 5th Mar 2012 08:34 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by MOS6510"
Dave_K Member since:
2005-11-16

I said 100% functional, not more functional,


Go back and read your own post. You said: "100% usable and more functional than the standard desktop".

and for most people, it will be more functional because most people work in full screen mode.


I'd question whether most people work in full screen mode all the time, with every application or utility they use. Even my parents, and other people I wouldn't consider "power users", sometimes want to view different documents and images side by side. With Metro's crippled 25:75 tiling they couldn't even do that.

People who want to work full screen can already do so with one click on the maximise button. With Windows 7 they can simply drag the titlebar to the top of the screen too, and tile windows by dragging them to the sides.

How does Metro's restrictive full screen mode make it more functional for anyone?

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Comment by MOS6510
by Lorin on Mon 5th Mar 2012 08:37 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by MOS6510"
Lorin Member since:
2010-04-06

Grandma might use full screen mode

Reply Score: 1

RE[6]: Comment by MOS6510
by modmans2ndcoming on Wed 7th Mar 2012 01:45 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by MOS6510"
modmans2ndcoming Member since:
2005-11-09

As do most users in the world.

Reply Score: 2

Comment by _txf_
by _txf_ on Fri 2nd Mar 2012 20:53 UTC
_txf_
Member since:
2008-03-17

"Absolutely amazing. Windows 7 already ran circles around Mac OS X and Ubuntu when it came to responsiveness, but Windows 8 is just insane. Very, very impressive.

My ZenBook runs considerably hotter in Windows 8 than it does in Windows 7, and the fan spins more often and faster as a result. No idea why."

These two points are related. If the cpu is not being throttled down then it is no surprise that the system is more responsive.

By contrast my mbp is relatively cool and silent. There are hiccups sometimes but I much prefer it to using windows (where it gets hotter and the vacuum cleaners start spinning up).

Reply Score: 3

Comment by Luminair
by Luminair on Fri 2nd Mar 2012 21:03 UTC
Luminair
Member since:
2007-03-30

the new part of windows 8 is metro and you just said metro sucks. it has no features and all the apps suck. so you lost me when you went from that to windows 8 being okay. windows 8 is balls because metro is balls.

they tried to make one interface that worked well on every device and they failed. we'll all upgrade to windows 8.... when the hacks that turn off metro come out.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Comment by Luminair
by modmans2ndcoming on Sat 3rd Mar 2012 01:37 UTC in reply to "Comment by Luminair"
modmans2ndcoming Member since:
2005-11-09

It's a preview!! all of his problems are bugs or places that need refinement.

Reply Score: 2

+-
by witold.bolt on Fri 2nd Mar 2012 21:55 UTC
witold.bolt
Member since:
2009-04-17

The speed is really great and it seems to lees memory/resource intensive than 7. What I dream is Windows 7.5 - with the speed of 8 and UI from 7 ;) Hopefully some happy hackers community will make it happen. Probably sooner or later someone will find those 2 or 3 magical registry entries that turn off Metro and bring back classic start menu. Then I'll switch!

Reply Score: 5

Comment by ichi
by ichi on Fri 2nd Mar 2012 22:44 UTC
ichi
Member since:
2007-03-06

As much as I dislike Gnome Shell and Unity, at least they moved away from the classic desktop while staying consistent.

One of my gripes with the Windows desktop has always been not being able to write on or scroll a non raised window, so you can guess I don't use to work with maximized windows (actually I think the only app I ever maximize is the browser).

I can't say I'm getting too excited by the idea of fullscreen or split as only choices (and then the fact that I find Metro widgets ugly as hell doesn't help, either).

I guess I'll eventually have to deal with Windows8 because of my job, but going by what I've seen and tried so far it'll never be my personal OS of choice.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Comment by ichi
by imladris on Sat 3rd Mar 2012 08:20 UTC in reply to "Comment by ichi"
imladris Member since:
2012-03-03

As for scrolling non-raised windows (or other views within the sam window), you should try KatMouse, http://ehiti.de/katmouse/ . Although the default settings are weird, they are easily fixed, and it does what you want in most cases. It makes Windows so much better. ;)

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Comment by ichi
by Bending Unit on Sat 3rd Mar 2012 14:54 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by ichi"
Bending Unit Member since:
2005-07-06

Katmouse is absolutely required for me!

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by ichi
by ichi on Sat 3rd Mar 2012 20:12 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by ichi"
ichi Member since:
2007-03-06

As for scrolling non-raised windows (or other views within the sam window), you should try KatMouse, http://ehiti.de/katmouse/ . Although the default settings are weird, they are easily fixed, and it does what you want in most cases. It makes Windows so much better. ;)


The problem with that kind of hacks is that they are... well, hacks, much like those Windows implementations of virtual desktops.

I'll rather stay with the native implementation on Linux than going with the quirks and incomplete functionality of third party add ons.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment by ichi
by imladris on Sun 4th Mar 2012 08:19 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by ichi"
imladris Member since:
2012-03-03

Well, it is a hack that works well. But of course, if you'd rather stick with with a behavior that you dislike, that's your choice.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Comment by ichi
by ichi on Sun 4th Mar 2012 13:52 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by ichi"
ichi Member since:
2007-03-06

Well, it is a hack that works well. But of course, if you'd rather stick with with a behavior that you dislike, that's your choice.


No, I stick with a behaviour I like, that's one of the reasons I use Linux and not Windows.

The only times I work with Windows is when I connect remotely to a customer Windows server (and it's not like you could go installing those programs on there).

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment by ichi
by zima on Fri 9th Mar 2012 23:54 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by ichi"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

The problem with that kind of hacks is that they are... well, hacks, much like those Windows implementations of virtual desktops.

I'll rather stay with the native implementation on Linux than going with the quirks and incomplete functionality of third party add ons.

Because various UI parts of Linux always work so smoothly and are so nicely integrated... (oh, and all the recent major UI Linux changes bring virtually only applause, right?)

Quite a few of those Windows enhancement tools work very well. Of course, many (probably most) don't, but that doesn't diminish the former.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by ichi
by imladris on Sat 3rd Mar 2012 08:25 UTC in reply to "Comment by ichi"
imladris Member since:
2012-03-03

As for scrolling non-raised windows (or other views within the sam window), you should try KatMouse. Although the default settings are weird, they are easily fixed, and it does what you want in most cases. It makes Windows so much better. ;)

Reply Score: 1

refinements post launch
by fran on Fri 2nd Mar 2012 22:45 UTC
fran
Member since:
2010-08-06

The one thing I wonder about.
What if MS don't get it quite right.
Will we see refinement updates after Win 8 release or will we have to wait for Win 9.
In recent years MS was shy of adding OS feature additions after launch. Mostly bugfixes and drivers.
Windows 8 might be a different story.

"There are lot's of professionals here, myself not included."

Edited 2012-03-02 22:46 UTC

Reply Score: 2

no judgement yet
by TomF on Fri 2nd Mar 2012 23:59 UTC
TomF
Member since:
2010-01-22

no judgement yet, simply because I've not tried the beta yet.

Some random notes:
- dev preview pissed me of for the split-mode of metro versus desktop
- I have 30" screen (yap, applause...) and cannot envision using *any* app maximised, I wanted/use this screen so I can see multiple apps in one go
- will gladly try out the beta one of these days but reserve judgement till then

as to...
- gnome 3: tried it... NOOOOOOOOO
- kde 4.x: me like and use for work every day
- MacOS: waiting for new batch, then order new airbook

Tom UK

Reply Score: 1

Nope
by computrius on Sat 3rd Mar 2012 00:42 UTC
computrius
Member since:
2006-03-26

"the largest overhaul of its operating system since Windows 95"

I wouldnt really say that. Its pretty much the same kernel, they have just slapped a new interface on top that can only be described as "WTF".

One step forward, 50 steps back seems to be the motto of the software/consumer electronics industry lately.

Edited 2012-03-03 00:43 UTC

Reply Score: 4

RE: Nope
by Luminair on Sat 3rd Mar 2012 02:08 UTC in reply to "Nope"
Luminair Member since:
2007-03-30

windows 8 is unquestionably the biggest user interface change since windows 95, and given how extremely retarded metro is, it might even be a bigger change than windows 95.

windows 8 is also the biggest application development model change since windows 95. again it may be an even bigger change than windows 95 due to the sheer insanity of it

Reply Score: 5

RE: Nope
by 1c3d0g on Sat 3rd Mar 2012 02:40 UTC in reply to "Nope"
1c3d0g Member since:
2005-07-06

I agree. Windows 95 brought usability to the masses, Metro is just a horrible UI developed for a fad (yes, the touch obsession is temporary, just like netbooks, Pokemon, Britney Spears, bell bottoms etc.). So this f*ck-up by M$ needs to be un-f*cked by at least offering serious users the option to go back to a usable UI.

"If it ain't broken, don't try to fix it."

Reply Score: 4

RE: Nope
by lucas_maximus on Sun 4th Mar 2012 11:23 UTC in reply to "Nope"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

I wouldnt really say that. Its pretty much the same kernel, they have just slapped a new interface on top that can only be described as "WTF".


Not sure if trolling or stupid.

Reply Score: 3

Regarding the fan
by kaiwai on Sat 3rd Mar 2012 01:37 UTC
kaiwai
Member since:
2005-07-06

My ZenBook runs considerably hotter in Windows 8 than it does in Windows 7, and the fan spins more often and faster as a result. No idea why.


Reading through the changes in WDDM 1.2 and DXGI 1.2 they have moved more of the interface over to the GPU where as in Windows 7 it was predominantly GDI powered. Couple that with the pre-emption enabled in WDDM 1.2 drivers plus other enhancements I'd say that Microsoft is now in a position that they can really push the use of GPU where ever possible but the downside is that vendors who have squeezed their hardware into confined spaces based on how Windows 7 utilised the hardware (taking into account the limits noted by the OEM supplier) I'm not surprised that the fan is spinning up frequently.

The other side of the equation could simply be that it requires a better, more optimised driver but given that it is still a consumer preview I'd hold off judgements till the final product is released.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Regarding the fan
by moondevil on Mon 5th Mar 2012 07:20 UTC in reply to "Regarding the fan"
moondevil Member since:
2005-07-08

Correct, in Windows 8 the complete graphics system is now fully DirectX based, so your GPU needs to work a bit more.

Reply Score: 2

logic failure
by tidux on Sat 3rd Mar 2012 02:31 UTC
tidux
Member since:
2011-08-13

You notice that the OS is running faster, and then wonder why your CPU heats up? That seems like a logical consequence of the kind of performance boost you're describing.

Reply Score: 3

Useless on the desktop
by deathshadow on Sat 3rd Mar 2012 04:25 UTC
deathshadow
Member since:
2005-07-12

As a user running four displays -- two 1920x1200 and two 1024x1280 portrait, I have NEVER seen such a colossal step BACKWARDS in functionality. It is PAINFULLY obvious they concentrated so much on the small screen market, that they not only neglected to consider people who actually have decent desktops, they basically turned around and gave us the finger. Hell, for a moment I felt like I was on Ubuntu "netbook remix" -- and no, that's NOT a compliment.

It reminds me of tabs in programmers editors -- like the people writing these editors never had a MDA and CGA connected at the same time; it's the same type of step backwards in functionality being touted as an advancement... as if we somehow don't know how to use the taskbar and need a second one built into the application for no good reason. I bet they'd freak if they saw my normal workflow for web development, with markup/php on the left half of the left display, css on the right half of the left display, browsers layered over each-other at two-thirds the center display with, Opera fullscreen 'under' all the others with it's tabs in the USEFUL position of portrait on the right, chat windows with clients and filezilla on the mid-right pivot, contact list and the task manager on the far-far right pivot, ALSO in portrait display...

Something I've basically been doing since Windows 3.1 - AND MacOS 7. It's NOT about "Oh you'll adjust" -- this is a radical step backwards in functionality.

Meaning much like with the release of Vista making people stick with XP, I'm seeing no real reason to migrate from Win7 to 8.

Trying to get into a new market where one's presence is minimal is a good idea, but not at the cost of your massive existing userbase. It's funny -- when I got my hands on the beta of Win7 I said "finally, a new version of Windows I can honestly say I don't have a problem with paying money for!" -- this time? Not so much.

Though I'll see how it is on my MSI Wind... Maybe as many have said it makes more sense on a single small display... seems to be what it's for. It sure as shine-ola isn't meant for people with REAL desktop computers.

Edited 2012-03-03 04:33 UTC

Reply Score: 9

RE: Useless on the desktop
by modmans2ndcoming on Sat 3rd Mar 2012 06:23 UTC in reply to "Useless on the desktop"
modmans2ndcoming Member since:
2005-11-09

I am loving it on my laptop. It completely makes sense there. I do not have the intestinal fortitude to put it on my main desktop though... I have too much data to worry about at this time to put a pre-release OS on there. I will install it when it goes gold though.

I think MS has focused on the single screen because 95%+ of users have a single screen. If they allowed multiple start screen instances to be run, that would provide you the use of multiple screens. The experience is still going to be different than what you use today though.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Useless on the desktop
by Morgan on Mon 5th Mar 2012 13:00 UTC in reply to "RE: Useless on the desktop"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

I'm going to keep it on my laptop throughout the preview period, as I don't really store anything there and I'm very happy with the OS so far. Dropbox+Gdocs+Evernote means I don't have to worry about local storage anyway.

On my desktop, I'm going to throw in a spare 300GB drive and install Windows 8 on it. That way I don't blow away my finely tuned Windows 7/Arch Linux setup on the original drive, and I can switch between the two disks with a reboot.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Useless on the desktop
by Wafflez on Sat 3rd Mar 2012 18:02 UTC in reply to "Useless on the desktop"
Wafflez Member since:
2011-06-26

I feel you. I have three monitor setup and haven't even tried Windows 8.

I guess I'll be sticking to Windows 7 and Visual Studio 2010 for a long time. I mean I'm still writing software for .NET 2.0 and occasionally for 3.5, don't see this changing any time soon to writing in 4.5. ;)

With Microsoft pushing faster releases, I hope that Windows 9 comes "soon" and with it's Metro polished somehow for multi-display setups (which isn't hard to believe when MS can throw millions into designing stuff).

And Metro made xBox UI crappier. Like in the good ol' days, I just needed to see "new releases" tile in "game demos" as it showed three latest demos in it, Metro tile just has "new releases" written on it. And there's one big space with multiple tile showing selected few demos, one per tile, I need to move thru that tile with right stick. fubar ><

Reply Score: 1

RE: Useless on the desktop
by n4cer on Sat 3rd Mar 2012 21:15 UTC in reply to "Useless on the desktop"
n4cer Member since:
2005-07-06

As a user running four displays -- two 1920x1200 and two 1024x1280 portrait, I have NEVER seen such a colossal step BACKWARDS in functionality. It is PAINFULLY obvious they concentrated so much on the small screen market, that they not only neglected to consider people who actually have decent desktops, they basically turned around and gave us the finger. Hell, for a moment I felt like I was on Ubuntu "netbook remix" -- and no, that's NOT a compliment.

It reminds me of tabs in programmers editors -- like the people writing these editors never had a MDA and CGA connected at the same time; it's the same type of step backwards in functionality being touted as an advancement... as if we somehow don't know how to use the taskbar and need a second one built into the application for no good reason. I bet they'd freak if they saw my normal workflow for web development, with markup/php on the left half of the left display, css on the right half of the left display, browsers layered over each-other at two-thirds the center display with, Opera fullscreen 'under' all the others with it's tabs in the USEFUL position of portrait on the right, chat windows with clients and filezilla on the mid-right pivot, contact list and the task manager on the far-far right pivot, ALSO in portrait display...

Something I've basically been doing since Windows 3.1 - AND MacOS 7. It's NOT about "Oh you'll adjust" -- this is a radical step backwards in functionality.

Meaning much like with the release of Vista making people stick with XP, I'm seeing no real reason to migrate from Win7 to 8.

Trying to get into a new market where one's presence is minimal is a good idea, but not at the cost of your massive existing userbase. It's funny -- when I got my hands on the beta of Win7 I said "finally, a new version of Windows I can honestly say I don't have a problem with paying money for!" -- this time? Not so much.

Though I'll see how it is on my MSI Wind... Maybe as many have said it makes more sense on a single small display... seems to be what it's for. It sure as shine-ola isn't meant for people with REAL desktop computers.


How would this workflow be any different under Windows 8? Desktop window management is largely similar to Windows 7 - one enhancement, the taskbar may now extend to displays other than the primary, and each taskbar may contain only the apps running on that display.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Useless on the desktop
by tomcat on Mon 5th Mar 2012 20:41 UTC in reply to "Useless on the desktop"
tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

Really, unless you're not paying attention, the market is trending toward smaller units with lighter-weight CPUs (e.g. ARM). Microsoft would be idiotic to ignore that trend. Which is why they're focusing so much there.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Useless on the desktop
by dsmogor on Tue 6th Mar 2012 17:08 UTC in reply to "Useless on the desktop"
dsmogor Member since:
2005-09-01

Btw. By using less resources than 7 and opening to Arm, MS has just scr*ed Intel all over ;) .
2013-15 will be very painful years for generic PC business.

Reply Score: 2

Fast and hot ?
by Neolander on Sat 3rd Mar 2012 08:50 UTC
Neolander
Member since:
2010-03-08

Absolutely amazing. Windows 7 already ran circles around Mac OS X and Ubuntu when it came to responsiveness, but Windows 8 is just insane. Very, very impressive.

My ZenBook runs considerably hotter in Windows 8 than it does in Windows 7, and the fan spins more often and faster as a result. No idea why

My bet : more GPU acceleration in the Windows 8 UI than in Aero.

Laptop GPUs do an excellent job as pocket toasters when they are heavily used.

EDIT : Well, sounds like kawai agrees ;)

Edited 2012-03-03 08:54 UTC

Reply Score: 1

*argl*
by MysterMask on Sat 3rd Mar 2012 09:09 UTC
MysterMask
Member since:
2005-07-12

I guess Redmond is glad that people like you omit to point out that Win8 is another attempt to try the 'one size fits all' strategy that users liked so much that they fled from WinMo like from a dog with fleas. Now Redmond tries the same strategy again but the other way round: from the phone to the desktop.

Windows 7 already ran circles around Mac OS X [..] when it came to responsiveness, but Windows 8 is just insane. Very, very impressive.

Another Holwerdaizism. Simply not true but glad you still stick to be a Microsoft shill.

Reply Score: 0

Bye, bye, PC market
by saso on Sat 3rd Mar 2012 09:18 UTC
saso
Member since:
2007-04-18

Microsoft has clearly decided on relegating the PC market to 2nd class citizen status and focusing on trying to stay relevant in the new "mobile device" market at all costs.
I think, though, that they've forgotten about one big aspect of the PC market that helps keep them afloat: the enterprise. Practically anywhere you go in business, you'll see Windows PCs running thousands of purpose-built apps that don't fit anywhere in the new Metro-ized world of Microsoft. By making the desktop just a "legacy" app in W8, they've basically given all of these customers (who pay really good money!) the finger.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Bye, bye, PC market
by shotsman on Sat 3rd Mar 2012 17:14 UTC in reply to "Bye, bye, PC market"
shotsman Member since:
2005-07-22

Could Win8 and Metro be the 'killer app'?

The 'app' that kills Microsoft?

If they do indeed as you say give one or even two fingers to the business world then they can say goodbye to any serious migrations from XP/Vista/Win7 to Win8 on the myriad of desktop PC's that millions of people all over the world use to 'just get stuff done'?

The jury is out but I for one will never use Metro on a PC.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Bye, bye, PC market
by lucas_maximus on Sun 4th Mar 2012 11:27 UTC in reply to "RE: Bye, bye, PC market"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

Microsoft is Dying comments are getting old.

Reply Score: 2

classical mode
by antik on Sat 3rd Mar 2012 10:53 UTC
antik
Member since:
2006-05-19

Is it possible to revert back Metro to classical windows start menu? Sometimes I forgot that there is so many applications open in windows 8 and no sign of what's going on. I suggest that this is possible- I remember windows 95 had windows 3.1 manager hidden inside.

Reply Score: 2

Comment by neticspace
by neticspace on Sat 3rd Mar 2012 11:52 UTC
neticspace
Member since:
2009-06-09

So far, South Koreans will obviously keep using Windows XP and 7 for extra more years. Yikes.

I think it's time for Microsoft to make a brand new operating system from scratch (no more NT).

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by neticspace
by Wafflez on Sat 3rd Mar 2012 18:07 UTC in reply to "Comment by neticspace"
Wafflez Member since:
2011-06-26

What's so bad about NT? Great security, great performance, great stability and it runs on ARM...

Reply Score: 3

RE: Comment by neticspace
by zima on Fri 9th Mar 2012 23:59 UTC in reply to "Comment by neticspace"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

MS is active in OS research (Singularity, Midori, Barrelfish, Verve).

They'll be most likely ready (maybe almost more ready than anybody else, with how the rest of the world, really, mostly toys around with Unix), when the time comes. In the meantime, NT is perfectly fine.

Edited 2012-03-10 00:11 UTC

Reply Score: 2

Useless as a productive OS
by sbenitezb on Sat 3rd Mar 2012 18:19 UTC
sbenitezb
Member since:
2005-07-22

They are turning a perfectly working OS, made for work and also pleasure into a consumer only OS. It's fine for grandma who wants to peek into her facebook account, but completely useless for us hard working people. We don't need that stupid touch oriented interface, we need more productivity. Make it optional!

Now I'm waiting for the monkey to make a comment on how wrong I am, and that's a preview and how wonderful it is on your laptop, phone, smart tv, etc.

Edited 2012-03-03 18:20 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE: Useless as a productive OS
by Gullible Jones on Sat 3rd Mar 2012 18:53 UTC in reply to "Useless as a productive OS"
Gullible Jones Member since:
2006-05-23

IIRC it is actually optional, and the standard desktop interface is still available, though it looks a bit different than in Win7. Not sure if the setting is hidden in the registry or available in the control center though.

Reply Score: 2

Battery Life != More Heat and Fan
by adinas on Sat 3rd Mar 2012 18:25 UTC
adinas
Member since:
2005-08-17

It seems to me that if The laptop runs "considerably hotter in Windows 8 than it does in Windows 7, and the fan spins more often and faster as a result" Then it can't be that "Battery life seems to have improved compared to Windows 7"
No?

Reply Score: 3

Wafflez Member since:
2011-06-26

As others have said - more stress on GPU, less on CPU. GPUs weren't designed to be used for gaming, only for HD decoding video or something, so engineers put too less emphasis on GPU cooling.

And now that Windows 8 puts more use with GPU - while saving power, you get more noise.

Reply Score: 1

Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

It seems to me that if The laptop runs "considerably hotter in Windows 8 than it does in Windows 7, and the fan spins more often and faster as a result" Then it can't be that "Battery life seems to have improved compared to Windows 7"
No?

Sounds weird to me too. But if Thom has tried to use his laptop for serious work, it may be that the laptop heats up more during Metro use, whereas Aero has become more power-efficient on its side (which wouldn't hurt !).

Unless someone does a serious, well-documented battery life test on a machine dual-booting the two OSs, we'll never know. It may simply be that Thom has not run a full battery discharge cycle yet and that Windows 8's battery indicator is more optimistic. Or that he has used Windows 8 only for toying around, and not yet for his everyday tasks.

Reply Score: 2

Great on my tablet
by tanishaj on Sat 3rd Mar 2012 19:23 UTC
tanishaj
Member since:
2010-12-22

On my tablet (ExoPC), Windows 8 is actually really nice. I am surprised how nice given that I did not like Windows Phone 7.

I cannot imagine it on a large screen desktop but it is probably my favourite tablet OS. Even without many apps it is pretty useful.

Reply Score: 1

Comment by PieterGen
by PieterGen on Sat 3rd Mar 2012 20:19 UTC
PieterGen
Member since:
2012-01-13

Why can't Microsoft give users some choice in User Interface?

I know that Microsoft ain't Linux, and never will be, but still..... is it so hard to give the actual USER a say in what desktop environment, file manager, window manager etc. he wants?

Even without diving into Linux-like freedom (which would be un-Microsofty), they could the user a few options to choose from, right?

Reply Score: 1

RE: Comment by PieterGen
by Luminair on Sat 3rd Mar 2012 21:33 UTC in reply to "Comment by PieterGen"
Luminair Member since:
2007-03-30

microsoft has always been about freedom to mess around with your shit, because microsoft has always been a company full of nerds. they just werent about open source.

even now, one of the new sinofsky mantras for windows 8 is "no compromise"

...people will decide for themselves if being forced to use metro or kill themselves is "no compromise". either that or some computers this christmas will still have windows 7 on them because the revolt was so strong.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by PieterGen
by lucas_maximus on Sun 4th Mar 2012 11:29 UTC in reply to "Comment by PieterGen"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

You know you've been able to replace the shell since like forever ...

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by PieterGen
by tuma324 on Sun 4th Mar 2012 19:01 UTC in reply to "Comment by PieterGen"
tuma324 Member since:
2010-04-09

Just use Linux.

Microsoft will never respect their users.

Reply Score: 2

Responsiveness???
by bowkota on Sat 3rd Mar 2012 22:15 UTC
bowkota
Member since:
2011-10-12

Seems like your view of responsiveness isn't very subjective. Windows 7 is in no way more responsive than OS X and we're talking about clean installs/bloat-free versions of Windows. I've had this conversation with others at University who use their Macbook Air at home and Windows 7 in the Labs and they all seem to agree.

Reply Score: 0

Fast.....But
by Lorin on Sun 4th Mar 2012 02:10 UTC
Lorin
Member since:
2010-04-06

This is very fast but as an engineer I need several windows open at once and all visible on the desktop, unless they allow it to run in Windows 7 mode, this will be a show stopper and my company will not use Windows 8

Reply Score: 1

RE: Fast.....But
by lucas_maximus on Sun 4th Mar 2012 11:30 UTC in reply to "Fast.....But"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

Classic Desktop is there still.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Fast.....But
by tuma324 on Sun 4th Mar 2012 17:05 UTC in reply to "RE: Fast.....But"
tuma324 Member since:
2010-04-09

Classic Desktop is there still.


But it's broken, as soon as you press the windows logo button you're back to the full screen metro interface again.

It disrupts people's workflow.

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: Fast.....But
by kaiwai on Mon 5th Mar 2012 01:39 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Fast.....But"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

I mean this in all due respects but how does it disrupt the work flow? it is no different than if I clicked on Launchpad so I am confused as to how it can be disruptive - please elaborate.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Fast.....But
by kedwards on Mon 5th Mar 2012 02:47 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Fast.....But"
kedwards Member since:
2009-04-25

I mean this in all due respects but how does it disrupt the work flow? it is no different than if I clicked on Launchpad so I am confused as to how it can be disruptive - please elaborate.


I have heard the same argument across the web, some people feel switching back and forth from "legacy desktop" to the metro desktop is counter productive. A lot of people are wondering why do they have to leave one desktop to launch a program just to end back up in the original desktop they were working on in the first place.

Another thing that is really ticking off some people is that Microsoft is forcing people to use the new UI without the option to use the old UI. In the past Microsoft allowed to customize the desktop UI experience. In Windows 95 you had an option to use the Windows 3x Program Manager, Windows XP (and Vista) you were able to customize the start menu to look like Windows 9x.

I honestly think Microsoft should provide their user base with an option on which desktop they want to use with the ability to switch back and forth if they choose to. This is one thing I think Apple is shinning on right now. All the new features of Lion (and soon Mountain Lion) are optional with the option to be able to either turn them off or not use them at all.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Fast.....But
by dsmogor on Tue 6th Mar 2012 17:11 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Fast.....But"
dsmogor Member since:
2005-09-01

I guess they will ultimately do just that after huge outcry in SP1.

Reply Score: 2

Comment by Luminair
by Luminair on Sun 4th Mar 2012 13:02 UTC
Luminair
Member since:
2007-03-30
Progress, Day 3
by Lorin on Mon 5th Mar 2012 08:33 UTC
Lorin
Member since:
2010-04-06

Well after using Windows 8 for several days I can say without reservation that my productivity tanked what good is two program windows open when I need at least six on two monitors for a total of 12?

I was wondering what could be worse than Gnome3, thank you Microsoft for the privilege, I will focus more on Linux now and use Windows 7 as long as I need it. the 180k+ machines at my company will not be going to 8 as I make that decision.

Microsoft shills, don't bother with a lame response, I know how I work and how the engineering staff works, so I am best qualified to determine what works for us.

Edited 2012-03-05 08:34 UTC

Reply Score: 2

battery life
by bolomkxxviii on Mon 5th Mar 2012 13:42 UTC
bolomkxxviii
Member since:
2006-05-19

Please explain how your laptop can run hotter but have better battery life. As far as I know, this is impossible.

Reply Score: 2

As is?
by hoak on Mon 5th Mar 2012 18:41 UTC
hoak
Member since:
2007-12-17

While I enjoy Thom's positive, open and enthusiastic perspective (and value his writing in general highly), I don't share in his optimism about Windows 8.

While some argue that Metro may (eventually) offer a good tablet interface, even more point out that for getting real work done on a desktop PC that's just not a workable proposition and I'm afraid I have to agree... Metro is more input labor intensive for even the simplest tasks, and for common everyday things -- even using the most efficient approaches Metro offers will still have you doing anywhere from double, to twelve fold the amount of mouse clicking, scrolling, drilling, and interface manipulation; this is not in any way shape or form an 'improvement'.

What bothers me even more then the obtuse UI, is that Microsoft has taken 'reinventing the wheel' a layer deeper to re-rigging interfaces to basic Windows internals we use and need to deploy, configure, and work with the OS on a deeper level -- this sort of practice where no real operational change of system internals is being reflected, would be equivalent to car manufacturers deciding they're going to switch positions of the gas, break, and clutch -- a gravely onerous mistake.

On a more hopeful note (though I wouldn't say positive as prospects look bleak), if Metro on desktop systems was to incorporate some of the features of a TWM, it could be both powerful and actually the opposite of what we have now as TWMs are dramatically less User input intensive to work with then the CWM model Windows has rolled with for 24 years. Also Microsoft has said that the removal of the Start Menu from the "8' OS is not final -- so there may be a ray of hope...

But left 'as is', or in any form that resembles Metro being some sort of idiot metaphor and replacement for for the Start Menu on workstations of any stripe is a proposition I find both untenable and unacceptable; and I seem far from alone... Windows 8 would have to offer some as yet unrevealed 'killer capability' to evince even an attitude of tolerance from me for the new interface; an interface design that gives every appearance of being the 'combating committee' design nightmare, pundits like John Dvorak that have some insight to Microsoft's 'corporate culture' have described...

=O)

Edited 2012-03-05 18:43 UTC

Reply Score: 2

Windows 8, first impressions...
by Luposian on Mon 5th Mar 2012 19:55 UTC
Luposian
Member since:
2005-07-27

I downloaded the .ISO right off the bat, because I was NOT about to mess up my Gateway laptop with a non-permanent install of Windows 8. I used a 64-bit Athlon64 X2 5000+ computer out in my workshop.

First issue: Where's the Activation code?

After finding THAT, online, the install went normally.

The whole "coversheet" image thing is kinda weird. Gotta toss that up out of your way to get to the password screen. Then you type in your password, to get to Metro. Lotsa boxes with lotsa useless things... a few look familiar, others useless. Can I get rid of the Xbox and "cloud apps whatever" boxes and just keep the ones I know I'll use?

Going to "Desktop" was heading into familiar territory, except... how do you get to all the stuff that USED to be under the Start menu? Like Computer and Control Panel, etc.?

Ah... it's in that folder icon, next to IE! Weird place to put it, but... oh, well. But it's not there either! Oh, gotta go to Desktop (right hand column). THERE it is!

I also had a hard time finding the Windows Experience Index program, because... IT'S NOT CALLED THAT ANYMORE! But, seems like, when I can actually FIND stuff, it actually feels pretty much like Windows 7... except with layers and layers of convoluted paths to actually GET to it!

It's quite an adventure, to using Windows 8, but it also makes my brain hurt, because it's like everything is a giant puzzle you have to wrap your brain around, to try and figure out! Nothing is intuitive... it's buried under layers of this and that, and go here to find this, and go there to do that... and crawl under this bridge and jump over that fence and around and about and over and under and... *sigh*.

Are they TRYING to make us hate Windows or something? I'm a very patient and persistent and open-minded individual... but it really pushes me to the limit, when I have to search so hard for everything and "figure out" the whole OS, just to run a few apps!

It's an adventure, for sure... I just hope I have enough mental energy to keep going... I'm exhausted just thinking about what I went through yesterday! :-D

Reply Score: 3

Facts...
by TemporalBeing on Mon 5th Mar 2012 20:05 UTC
TemporalBeing
Member since:
2007-08-22

Please don't let little things like facts get in your way...

Up until only a few years ago, innovation in the desktop space was completely and utterly dead in the water. Whether you were using KDE, GNOME, Windows, or Mac OS X, they were all virtually identical...then the iPhone happened. And Android happened. And the iPad happened. Suddenly, Microsoft found itself in a difficult position


What most people think of per iPhone/iOS really wasn't until iOS 2.x - which wasn't released until July 2008. Even then, with respect to what you are referring to most of what people associate (now) with iOS is really the latest iOS 4/5, which was not until 2010/2011. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOS_version_history)

However, KDE was well on their way to KDE4 and had been discussing it for a long time by that point, having released the first (albeit developer oriented only) version in January 2008. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KDE_Software_Compilation_4). KDE4 was nothing like the Windows or Mac frameworks - it was nothing like KDE3 at that point either.

Yes, iPhoneOS/iOS and Android brought a very heavy disruption to the mobile OS market. But it was KDE4 that did it to the Desktop OS market.

Windows Vista (released in 2007 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Vista) changed little from Windows XP in that respect, though Windows 7 adopted some of the functionality from KDE4 on its release in 2009.

That is to say, in what you stated, the hides the facts by looking at the world through the lense of Windows and the progress of Windows XP, Vista, and 7 and iOS in comparison. It ignores what went on in the rest of the computing realm where a lot of innovation was happening - innovation that is now causing big problems for Microsoft.

Reply Score: 3

Liking it despite the rough spots
by Tuishimi on Tue 6th Mar 2012 08:14 UTC
Tuishimi
Member since:
2005-07-06

Hate: Upgrade path, some drivers, network tunneling issues.

Not sure: metro start panel

Love: Everything else.

Reply Score: 2

blitze Member since:
2006-09-15

Same, metro start panel is good once you organise it your way.

I pretty much am without metro apps but have sorted apps that are important to me in app groupings like Music (creation), Graphic Deisgn/Printing, Recreation. etc.

Much easier to launch from and quite quick.

Networking with wireless seems a big improvement too but can hang the app you are saving info to and from over a network store until data has been transfered. That aside, it is a more polished Windows 7 ;)

Reply Score: 2