Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 7th Mar 2012 23:04 UTC, submitted by Richard Lake
Amiga & AROS "The Timberwolf team is proud to announce the immediate availability of the first beta version of Timberwolf 4.0.1. Timberwolf is an AmigaOS web browser based on Firefox/Mozilla technology. This technology is more than just a browser, it is an enabling technology, bringing powerful tools such as html5, WebM, JavaScript, XUL, and more to AmigaOS 4.x. These are the building blocks for other applications as well, such as the email client 'Thunderbird' or the media center 'Songbird'. This first beta release includes almost the full functionality of the browser, allowing style-sheet enabled web browsing, secure connections, use of Firefox add-on and more."
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It's always something.
by antidroid on Thu 8th Mar 2012 00:05 UTC
antidroid
Member since:
2010-01-05

Just can't keep those Amiga dudes down.

Can't be done! They say okay and do it.

Edited 2012-03-08 00:08 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE: It's always something.
by MORB on Thu 8th Mar 2012 09:04 UTC in reply to "It's always something."
MORB Member since:
2005-07-06

Just can't keep those Amiga dudes down.

Can't be done! They say okay and whine for years until someone do it.

I took the liberty of fixing your post. No charge.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: It's always something.
by righard on Thu 8th Mar 2012 11:19 UTC in reply to "RE: It's always something."
righard Member since:
2007-12-26

Can't be done! They say okay and whine for years until someone does it.

I have sent you an invoice.

Reply Score: 2

RE: It's always something.
by zima on Sun 11th Mar 2012 00:15 UTC in reply to "It's always something."
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Just can't keep those Amiga dudes down.

Can't be done! They say okay and do it.

Sooo... a decade more for memory management? (hence also proper multitasking, vs. the not-quite-one that depends on well-behaving apps, where any any program can essentially take over)
Two decades?

Will by then all applications be just ports of OSS stuff from the PC? (with all classic ones in UAE, which a) is needed for most historical ones already b) most likely runs better on a PC, certainly with much better perf-per-buck;
oh, and yes, OTOH those Amiga dudes also said things in vein of ~"Amiga won't be emulated on a PC, too complex")

Reply Score: 2

Wow!
by Pro-Competition on Thu 8th Mar 2012 03:45 UTC
Pro-Competition
Member since:
2007-08-20

Wow! That's all I have to say.

OK, one more thing - I am going to try this right away!

Reply Score: 3

68k!!
by leech on Thu 8th Mar 2012 04:44 UTC
leech
Member since:
2006-01-10

Where's my 68K version?!?!

Yeah, yeah, I know old tech, blah blah, etc. Would love to have a PPC Amiga capable of running AmigaOS4 and finally have an Awesome OS that can browse decently ( I have an A4000 running OS3.9, but all the browsers are either buggy as crap (AWEB) or missing a ton of modern features (IBrowse) or is a pain to get working at all (Netsurf 68k)).

The OS is still snappy in a lot of areas where my 2.5GHZ quad core CPU running any modern desktop OS (Windows 7 and KDE4 or Gnome-Shell) isn't. Even though I don't have an accelerator (still 25Mhz 68040) and a Radeon using RAM of it for the system. With the Radeon OS3.9 just flies.

Wish someone would actually create new accelerator boards that didn't cost the same as me building a brand new i7.

Reply Score: 2

RE: 68k!!
by MORB on Thu 8th Mar 2012 09:08 UTC in reply to "68k!!"
MORB Member since:
2005-07-06

There's a reason for that genius: there's simply no way for a 68k to run a somewhat modern html rendering engine with remotely decent performances.

I remember that simply rendering a mildly complicated table used to take ages on those things.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: 68k!!
by leech on Thu 8th Mar 2012 15:33 UTC in reply to "RE: 68k!!"
leech Member since:
2006-01-10

It's actually not terribly bad. Now on the other hand something like Flash is absolutely horrible.

A lot of the actual slowness is in the AGA chipset. Sure it was almost awesome when it was initially released, but because of Commodore's stupidity, they didn't get the AAA chipset out. That's why I said with my Radeon it's like night and day. That's still going through that same 'slow' 68040@25Mhz processor. IBrowse and AWEB II both go so much faster on it.

Netsurf is a modern browser, and from what I understand it runs pretty fast, but I don't know, I haven't been able to get it to work, since it needs AfAOS which I haven't had that much luck getting set up (well I had it working, but Netsurf seemed to still crash. After I bleach the rest of my keyboard, I'll give it a shot again. Ah, the joys of using ancient hardware ;) )

Reply Score: 2

Not open source...
by fithisux on Thu 8th Mar 2012 05:07 UTC
fithisux
Member since:
2006-01-22

so, no AROS port. I am thankful I am on Linux. Even the Windows version can be downloaded and compiled.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Not open source...
by leech on Thu 8th Mar 2012 06:48 UTC in reply to "Not open source..."
leech Member since:
2006-01-10

Wait, how can Timberwolf NOT be open source? Pretty sure the Mozilla license isn't quite like the BSD license where you can just snag the code and not release any changes, or is it? It's been a while since I looked at it.

After a brief check into the MPL, it looks like any of the changes to XUL, the javascript, etc that is what makes the core of Firefox would have to still be open source.

Though that was just after a very brief look. Though wouldn't an AROS port also work under Workbench 3.x? As I thought AROS was supposed to be Workbench 3.x API compatible.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Not open source...
by daedalus on Thu 8th Mar 2012 08:43 UTC in reply to "RE: Not open source..."
daedalus Member since:
2011-01-14

Yep, AROS is 3.x API compatible, but not 4.x. There were changes in one of the OS4.1 updates specifically to add features required by Timberwolf, so even with the OS4.x code, it probably couldn't be compiled for AROS without a huge amount of further work.

As for whether it will end up as open source, I'm sure the minimum required by the licence will be done and no more. Whether that much is actually useful is another story...

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Not open source...
by leech on Thu 8th Mar 2012 17:53 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Not open source..."
leech Member since:
2006-01-10

Oops, I kind of got ahead of myself on that matter.

What I was thinking was that if the backend libraries were ported to AROS, it wouldn't be that far of a stretch to also get them ported to native Workbench 3.x.

Kind of a backward way to be doing stuff how things would be if Commodore were still around and had allowed clones. The primary would get the port first, then all the 'clone' OSes. Then again I suppose AmigaOS 4 would have eventually came out.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Not open source...
by Valhalla on Thu 8th Mar 2012 09:39 UTC in reply to "Not open source..."
Valhalla Member since:
2006-01-24

so, no AROS port. I am thankful I am on Linux. Even the Windows version can be downloaded and compiled.

Hmmm it was disappointing to read that they keep the non-mpl licenced parts of the port closed, why? To prevent it from being ported to Aros?

It seems that mpl is like lgpl, in that only changes to the mpl licenced code needs to be open sourced.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Not open source...
by Cymro on Thu 8th Mar 2012 10:21 UTC in reply to "RE: Not open source..."
Cymro Member since:
2005-07-07

I think people just shouted at the developers instead of asking first if they'd release their code. They're not required to release it, so I don't blame them.

There's also a superb WebKit-based browser on MorphOS, which was ported to OS4 (though the OS4 version misses a few features like HTML5 video). AROS should be getting a port before too long - the two Zune bounties required are already in progress.

Edited 2012-03-08 10:21 UTC

Reply Score: 2

Comment by strim
by strim on Thu 8th Mar 2012 08:25 UTC
strim
Member since:
2008-07-01

Wait, how can gcc shipped with AmigaOS and MorphOS NOT be open source? Pretty sure the GPL license isn't quite like the BSD license where you can just snag the code and not release any changes, or is it?

There are serious licensing problems within the Amiga community.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by strim
by Xeron on Thu 8th Mar 2012 10:42 UTC in reply to "Comment by strim"
Xeron Member since:
2012-03-08

"Wait, how can gcc shipped with AmigaOS and MorphOS NOT be open source?"

Errm.. the sources for the GCC, binutils etc. that ship with AmigaOS 4.x's SDK are right here:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/adtools/

Edited 2012-03-08 10:43 UTC

Reply Score: 1

I'm sure the four people
by bassbeast on Thu 8th Mar 2012 13:56 UTC
bassbeast
Member since:
2007-11-11

That still use AmigaOS will be happy. not to be snarky and I do like that OS News is the home of teh funky but Geez, Commodore has been dead for...what? 20+ years now? C'mon guys, let the thing die in peace. i know your pain, i was an OS/2 user, but there needs to come a time where you take it out back and tell it to think about the rabbits while you pull out the revolver.

So please, just let the poor thing go, this is like announcing a new FF for Win3.x or...well OS/2. No take that back I can't even say OS/2 as at least there is a company that will actually sell you a supported OS/2, eComStation, whereas Amiga has been the kiss of death to anybody that tried to sell it. Believe me I wish it weren't so, a world with Apple, MSFT, OS/2 and Amiga all competing would be a most interesting and innovative world, but the time is past, the company long dead, its time for a moment of silence and a few clumps sprinkled over the casket before walking away.

Reply Score: 1

RE: I'm sure the four people
by bloodline on Thu 8th Mar 2012 14:15 UTC in reply to "I'm sure the four people"
bloodline Member since:
2008-07-28

That still use AmigaOS will be happy. not to be snarky and I do like that OS News is the home of teh funky but Geez, Commodore has been dead for...what? 20+ years now? C'mon guys, let the thing die in peace. i know your pain, i was an OS/2 user, but there needs to come a time where you take it out back and tell it to think about the rabbits while you pull out the revolver.

So please, just let the poor thing go, this is like announcing a new FF for Win3.x or...well OS/2. No take that back I can't even say OS/2 as at least there is a company that will actually sell you a supported OS/2, eComStation, whereas Amiga has been the kiss of death to anybody that tried to sell it. Believe me I wish it weren't so, a world with Apple, MSFT, OS/2 and Amiga all competing would be a most interesting and innovative world, but the time is past, the company long dead, its time for a moment of silence and a few clumps sprinkled over the casket before walking away.



Wow! Not sure where that rant came from... This is OS News dot com you know... It's the place for stuff about hobby OS. Some people enjoy using AOS4 and they are probably really excited about this new browser.

I'm an AROS fan so I can understand how these guys feel (common heritage and all).

As a side note, I would be intrigued to see a modern browser for Win3.1 or OS/2... This sort of stuff is fun for those of us who enjoy non mainstream OS as a hobby.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: I'm sure the four people
by MORB on Thu 8th Mar 2012 15:01 UTC in reply to "RE: I'm sure the four people"
MORB Member since:
2005-07-06

This is OS News dot com you know... It's the place for stuff about hobby OS.

Is it? How come there's never any update anymore about Losethos then (http://www.losethos.com/), even though it is a better OS than AmigaOS?

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: I'm sure the four people
by bloodline on Thu 8th Mar 2012 15:16 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: I'm sure the four people"
bloodline Member since:
2008-07-28

"This is OS News dot com you know... It's the place for stuff about hobby OS.

Is it? How come there's never any update anymore about Losethos then (http://www.losethos.com/), even though it is a better OS than AmigaOS?
"


I never knew about losethos before! And it is stuff like this that keeps me coming back to OS News. Many thanks I will be playing with this OS tonight ;)

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: I'm sure the four people
by Neolander on Thu 8th Mar 2012 17:46 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: I'm sure the four people"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

Is it? How come there's never any update anymore about Losethos then (http://www.losethos.com/), even though it is a better OS than AmigaOS?

Well, without additional argumentation and looking at the project's description, it seems to me that "better" is quite a subjective concept. Anyway, if you want more updates, you know what to do. There is a "Submit News" button on the topright corner of this web page, and you are free to use it.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: I'm sure the four people
by MORB on Thu 8th Mar 2012 18:54 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: I'm sure the four people"
MORB Member since:
2005-07-06

It is better because unlike current amigaos' developers, losethos's author doesn't even pretend to be sane.

Also, can you talk with god with amigaos?

Reply Score: 4

RE[5]: I'm sure the four people
by zima on Sat 10th Mar 2012 23:57 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: I'm sure the four people"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

lso, can you talk with god with amigaos?

Wasn't that, in a way, one of the reasons behind "guru meditation" errors?

Though OS4 seems to have lost this function...

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: I'm sure the four people
by zima on Tue 13th Mar 2012 00:37 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: I'm sure the four people"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Anyway, if you want more updates, you know what to do. There is a "Submit News" button on the topright corner of this web page, and you are free to use it.

I don't know; that won't necessarily work - first there needs to be some news to report about ...while, really, alt OS scene is comparatively dead.
(and anyway, why wouldn't the ~authors of alt OS submit such? ...unless OSNews isn't that big not only in the grander scheme of things, but even on their radar ;p )

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: I'm sure the four people
by tanishaj on Thu 8th Mar 2012 18:53 UTC in reply to "RE: I'm sure the four people"
tanishaj Member since:
2010-12-22


As a side note, I would be intrigued to see a modern browser for Win3.1 or OS/2... This sort of stuff is fun for those of us who enjoy non mainstream OS as a hobby.


I cannot help you for Win3.1 but for OS/2...

Is Firefox 10 modern enough for you?

ftp://ftp.netlabs.org/incoming/mozilla/firefox-10.0.2.en-US.os2.zi...

In addition to recent SeaMonkey builds, there is Thunderbird 10 as well:

ftp://ftp.netlabs.org/incoming/mozilla/thunderbird-10.0.en-US.os2....

Reply Score: 3

RE: I'm sure the four people
by Xeron on Thu 8th Mar 2012 17:27 UTC in reply to "I'm sure the four people"
Xeron Member since:
2012-03-08

I just don't get this attitude.

"Hey you! You're a fan and user of an obsolete operating system! For some reason that bothers me, even though it has no impact on my life, so you have to stop and let it go!"

Well, no. I won't let it go. I enjoy using OS4 on my AmigaOne, and its a fun hobby. If that annoys you.. well.. screw you.

Reply Score: 2

v RE[2]: I'm sure the four people
by bassbeast on Fri 9th Mar 2012 02:28 UTC in reply to "RE: I'm sure the four people"
Johann Chua Member since:
2005-07-22

What does Haiku have to do with Amiga?

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: I'm sure the four people
by daedalus on Fri 9th Mar 2012 08:38 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: I'm sure the four people"
daedalus Member since:
2011-01-14

What's interesting here is how, on a website about OSes where things like Puppy Linux are applauded for running on ancient x86 hardware, that running a different OS on similar vintage hardware seems to make some people (such as bassbeast) angry. Seriously, what's your problem? You haven't even read up on this - OS4 is supported, there are regular updates, and it runs on hardware which is being manufactured and sold new today.

Why the hate? Why is it that Windows, OS/2, Haiku, and the various Linux distros are ok, but AmigaOS constantly gets trolled? Please tell me why it upsets you so. Did you get a wedgie from an Amiga owner in school or something?

FWIW, I find my OS4 box far more usable than my Haiku box.

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: I'm sure the four people
by Xeron on Fri 9th Mar 2012 09:46 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: I'm sure the four people"
Xeron Member since:
2012-03-08

Haha... yes.. clearly I'm the one with the problem... riiight.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: I'm sure the four people
by paolone on Fri 9th Mar 2012 11:11 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: I'm sure the four people"
paolone Member since:
2007-09-24

Sorry. I don't follow your arguments here.

You start a mom's sermon about how people shouldn't spend their time on "long abanoned" OSes, and then you tell them they should move their attention to HAIKU instead? (I would understand Linux or FreeBSD, but Haiku...)

For what I can say about it, Be is as dead as Commodore. The only difference is the OS internals, which were obviously more modern and future-proof in BeOS rather than AmigaOS, which was conceived when hardware had far lesser specs. This, however, doesn't change anything about the fact that both BeOS and AmigaOS were de facto abandoned. Both of them had (and AmigaOS still has today) a parent company which takes care of them, but while AmigaOS situation is somehow clear now with Hyperion, can we say the same for the original BeOS?

Haiku is a damn good alternative OSS operating system, but I think AROS has its own meaning for people using it (and even more for former Amigans), and its developers should be proud of what they have done. I find these hints about what-people-should-use and how-people-should-spend-their-time quite arrogant and absolutely pointless.

I am Happy AmigaOS finally got its port of Firefox. Due to OS architecture constraints it was a far harder goal to achieve than on any OSS Posix-compliant OS. This means that the words "impossible to do" have low impact on willing people. I won't use it for reasons which are off topic here, but I am happy it's there.

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: I'm sure the four people
by MORB on Fri 9th Mar 2012 14:12 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: I'm sure the four people"
MORB Member since:
2005-07-06

I am Happy AmigaOS finally got its port of Firefox. Due to OS architecture constraints it was a far harder goal to achieve than on any OSS Posix-compliant OS. This means that the words "impossible to do" have low impact on willing people. I won't use it for reasons which are off topic here, but I am happy it's there.

It was probably never claimed to be impossible, merely pointless and a waste of energy.

I just can't comprehend what can possibly motivate developers to work so hard just to get an app to run on top of an inadequate OS. In the end, what do you gain from it?

Don't tell me they did it just to learn, because the guys who did that have been doing this kind of thing long enough that they're unlikely to have anything to learn from it anymore.

It's just an exercise of painfully reinventing all sort of wheels that their obsolete OS is missing to achieve end results that have no added value. Plus the entire thing runs only on very expensive niche hardware which is substandard in every way.

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: I'm sure the four people
by paolone on Fri 9th Mar 2012 15:08 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: I'm sure the four people"
paolone Member since:
2007-09-24

It's just an exercise of painfully reinventing all sort of wheels that their obsolete OS is missing to achieve end results that have no added value. Plus the entire thing runs only on very expensive niche hardware which is substandard in every way.


I think @Hyperion thought they needed a concrete application to show both users and investors that AmigaOS4.1 (and the overpriced platforms it runs on) has some chances to survive in the market. Please, don't drag me into topics I have already told I don't want to talk about: what I think about this, is exactly the motivation why I am happy someone ported Firefox on AmigaOS, BUT I won't use neither AmigaOS nor Timberwolf.

(and no, I am not struggling for an AROS port either, since we've just got a good enough browser today and if I want to run Firefox, I just have to reboot my system)

Reply Score: 2

Some screenshots would be nice!
by MacMan on Thu 8th Mar 2012 15:26 UTC
MacMan
Member since:
2006-11-19

Screenshots would be nice for those of us who sadly no longer own an Amiga, but are still interested in how things are going there.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Some screenshots would be nice!
by MORB on Thu 8th Mar 2012 18:58 UTC in reply to "Some screenshots would be nice!"
MORB Member since:
2005-07-06

Imagine firefox but with ugly fonts and windows decorations

there, you don't need screenshots

Reply Score: 1

daedalus Member since:
2011-01-14
OS/2
by zizban on Thu 8th Mar 2012 16:30 UTC
zizban
Member since:
2005-07-06

OS/2 has Firefox already, as well as Java and Flash.

Reply Score: 1

Comment by zizban
by zizban on Thu 8th Mar 2012 17:37 UTC
zizban
Member since:
2005-07-06

I'm not sure why i was modded down but OS/2 Warp 4 and later (Including eComstation) have had Firefox, Java and Flash for a while:
http://www.os2world.com/

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by zizban
by Soulbender on Fri 9th Mar 2012 03:36 UTC in reply to "Comment by zizban"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

I'm not sure why i was modded down but OS/2 Warp 4 and later


Because it's completely irrelevant to Timberwolf on AmigaOS?

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Comment by zizban
by zizban on Fri 9th Mar 2012 19:07 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by zizban"
zizban Member since:
2005-07-06

Perhaps if you looked the threads leading to my comment someone said "What's next? A firefox port to OS/2?"

It was totally relevant.

Reply Score: 2

Surprised
by earksiinni on Fri 9th Mar 2012 03:48 UTC
earksiinni
Member since:
2009-03-27

Kind of surprised that some eccentric million/billionaire hasn't yet dropped $$$ on one of these niche OS projects. After all, these are our childhood. I suppose once the current crop of first gen computer billionaires retires we might see it happen. I think ReactOS claimed to Medvedev that they could "finish" their OS if they had $1,000,000--wouldn't it be rich if Bill gave 'em the money in his will ;-)?

(Please no one say "Shuttleworth".)

Reply Score: 2

RE: Surprised
by Xeron on Fri 9th Mar 2012 09:45 UTC in reply to "Surprised"
Xeron Member since:
2012-03-08

Trevor Dickinson is kind of doing that for AmigaOS, although he's not as rich as the people you were talking about, and his contribution isn't as big as you were alluding to, but still, he is spending an incredible amount of money on something just because he loves it, and he is not deluded into thinking it is for any other reason.

Reply Score: 2

Screenshot requests
by djrikki on Fri 9th Mar 2012 15:16 UTC
djrikki
Member since:
2011-09-02

I am the one who posted this news item/

And as bloody usual for posting on forums (same crap happened on SlashDot), the moderator totally massacres the news item. I originally posted a concise informative article with pointers to:

1) The official AmigaOS website which needs publicising at much as possible which was removed for seemingly no apparent reason. Screenshots gallore for all readers to view.

http://www.amigaos.net

2) A video showing Timberwolf in action - just what every valued article requires - validity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10H2xwmit9k

Now wouldn't that make for a better, well-rounded informative article?

Edited 2012-03-09 15:24 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE: Screenshot requests
by MORB on Fri 9th Mar 2012 17:42 UTC in reply to "Screenshot requests"
MORB Member since:
2005-07-06

Look at this video objectively. What this video is saying is basically this: "amigaos 4 is an os that in the year 2012 is unable to record a video with remotely acceptable performance and where merely being able to run a web browser is considered an outstanding feat"

I don't think any of this needs "publicising at much as possible". It needs to be, on the contrary, be obfuscated enough that someone not knowing better may actually believe that amigaos is a remotely worthwhile OS. The editor did you a favor by not including those shameful links.

If you need me, I'll be over there laughing at that video.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Screenshot requests
by djrikki on Fri 9th Mar 2012 19:45 UTC in reply to "RE: Screenshot requests"
djrikki Member since:
2011-09-02

Firstly Timberwolf is in Beta as it says quite clearly in the title and in the video description area. Geeks know what Beta means.

You seem to forget the target audience of OSNews and Slashdot - both are hardly mainstream sites - they are for geeks who have a interest in the field of operating systems and computer news. Those who follow the Amiga scene are welcome to be readers here too - and those who have an interest in the platform will already know that a proper graphics sublayer (in this case Gallium/Mesa) is coming to the platform very soon and will vastly improve everything shown in the video.

"publicising at much as possible" was referring to the website and the OS, not Timberwolf and some screen capturing application; you simply took my post out of context to deliver a reply that the average non-geek consumer would say rather than the intended audience of this site who logs on every day to w*** over tech news.

Reply Score: 1