Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 8th Mar 2012 17:59 UTC, submitted by kragil
Windows Microsoft has disclosed just which limitations Windows Phone 'Tango' will have on low-end devices (256MB RAM). It's pretty hefty - most importantly, the ability to 'multitask' has been disabled. Aren't there more powerful unlimited Android phones out there? What's the point of all this?
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Grant the user experience
by CapEnt on Thu 8th Mar 2012 18:25 UTC
CapEnt
Member since:
2005-12-18

The point is to guarantee a fluid user experience, in a typical "user is a idiot" fashion that i had though, until now, that MS had abandoned.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Grant the user experience
by GraphiteCube on Thu 8th Mar 2012 18:47 UTC in reply to "Grant the user experience"
GraphiteCube Member since:
2009-04-01

It is better than terminating applications in background without warnings (like my Nokia 5530 did).

Windows Phone applications can be "tombstoned" to save the state, and recover from it when user launch it again.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Grant the user experience
by boxy on Thu 8th Mar 2012 18:54 UTC in reply to "RE: Grant the user experience"
boxy Member since:
2011-06-20

It is better than terminating applications in background without warnings (like my Nokia 5530 did).


Not to get off track, but isn't Windows 8 going to do exactly that?

Reply Score: 1

GraphiteCube Member since:
2009-04-01

Windows 8 is going to terminate applications without any warning/ error message? Where did you read this?

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Grant the user experience
by n4cer on Thu 8th Mar 2012 20:05 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Grant the user experience"
n4cer Member since:
2005-07-06

Metro-style apps on Windows 8 follow a similar application lifecycle as apps on Windows Phone 7+.
Such apps may be suspended or terminated while in the background. Events are provided for developers to save and restore application state so the experience is largely transparent to the user. There's a background task model to enable processing that needs to take place when the app is not in the foreground.

Reply Score: 5

RE[4]: Grant the user experience
by tomcat on Fri 9th Mar 2012 03:13 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Grant the user experience"
tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

Windows 8 is going to terminate applications without any warning/ error message? Where did you read this?


Windows 8 does a couple things. First, it suspends background applications in order to conserve battery. And, second, it has the ability to have background applications save their state and terminate them; restarted apps will load their state and resume where they left off. This isn't a big deal.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Grant the user experience
by dsmogor on Fri 9th Mar 2012 21:32 UTC in reply to "RE: Grant the user experience"
dsmogor Member since:
2005-09-01

This only works if the app properly handles that.
Android has the same API, but lots of app doesn't bother to support it. The result - you go back to an app to only realize your (saved game, document, web page, whatever) is gone, and be presented a launch screen.

Lots of apps had this problem in pre Mango. This will come back in Tango.

Reply Score: 4

The target audience
by sukru on Thu 8th Mar 2012 18:31 UTC
sukru
Member since:
2006-11-19

This seems more of a "high end feature phone" then a low end smartphone. There still seems to be a market for that (now everybody needs a smart phone).

But of course this will also depend on the marketing. If the stores market this as an alternative to iPhone or Galaxy S, then people will hate Windows Phone. If they market this as an alternative to Symbian, then people will like it more.

Reply Score: 4

Obvious....
by gmlongo on Thu 8th Mar 2012 19:01 UTC
gmlongo
Member since:
2005-07-07

This is for emerging markets...they have repeatedly said this.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Obvious....
by CapEnt on Thu 8th Mar 2012 19:33 UTC in reply to "Obvious...."
CapEnt Member since:
2005-12-18

For the same price range that Lumia 610 was announced, you can get a brand new and fully capable Motorola Defy or a Spice XT here in Brazil.

Reply Score: 8

Point is...
by TBPrince on Thu 8th Mar 2012 19:57 UTC
TBPrince
Member since:
2005-07-06

Point is being able to replace lower-end Symbian dumbphones with a Windows Phone "Starter" version, cheap enough for 50-100 EUR phones.

Not sure that will work but IF it does, just remember Nokia still is Worldwide leader for dumbphones, expecially in emerging markets.

If, and I say IF, MS can channel Windows Phone "Starter" to those phones, they could get lots of money virtually anywhere in the world. Plus, they will have a teaser to make users upgrade to full WP experience.

This is clever. However, I think they miscalculated something since I believe they think they will be able to buy Nokia out if this strategy works. My bet is they will not be allowed to buy Nokia by the EU ;-)

Reply Score: 2

RE: Point is...
by CapEnt on Thu 8th Mar 2012 20:29 UTC in reply to "Point is..."
CapEnt Member since:
2005-12-18

The WP7 can't run on that low-end hardware.

When you talk about Nokia feature phones that sells like hot cakes in emerging markets, you speak of things like Nokia C3 or Nokia E5. No way that you can trim enough features of WP7 for it to run smooth on that hardware, even in one or two years, without rising the price and get punched to the sidelines by Samsung and LG.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Point is...
by TBPrince on Thu 8th Mar 2012 23:07 UTC in reply to "RE: Point is..."
TBPrince Member since:
2005-07-06

We're not talking about WP7 here but a scaled down version of it.

By the time WP 8 will be available, I guess a C3 will feature 256MB instead of 55.

It makes sense to me. Doesn't mean it will work but if I had to put 10 euros on it, I think it will work. WP7.5 is selling quite well, though not extraordinary yet and a unified (but scaled down) experience with feature phones makes sense.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Point is...
by tonny on Fri 9th Mar 2012 01:15 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Point is..."
tonny Member since:
2011-12-22

Hm.. I think it's unlikely. Nokia's famous for selling with high price. Add Microsoft to the formula. Nope, can't think that'll happen. As for today, you can get better spec-ed Android phone than windows phone, both in high end or in low end. I think the future will told us the same stories.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Point is...
by tomcat on Fri 9th Mar 2012 03:14 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Point is..."
tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

Hm.. I think it's unlikely. Nokia's famous for selling with high price. Add Microsoft to the formula. Nope, can't think that'll happen. As for today, you can get better spec-ed Android phone than windows phone, both in high end or in low end. I think the future will told us the same stories.


This obviously isn't meant to compete head to head with a multitasking smartphone at the same price point. There is plenty of room in the marketplace for lighterweight phones which cost less. Why geeks can't understand that concept -- where not everyone has the best possible device -- is not clear.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Point is...
by Neolander on Fri 9th Mar 2012 08:02 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Point is..."
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

This obviously isn't meant to compete head to head with a multitasking smartphone at the same price point. There is plenty of room in the marketplace for lighterweight phones which cost less. Why geeks can't understand that concept -- where not everyone has the best possible device -- is not clear.

I consider myself a computer geek, and I fuckin' hate the current tendency among most phone OS manufacturers to think that you should spend at least 400-500€ in your phone before getting something that is not crippled.

Reply Score: 5

RE[6]: Point is...
by fran on Fri 9th Mar 2012 08:22 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Point is..."
fran Member since:
2010-08-06

Can you imagine you can buy a whole PC for that price, maybe even with a LCD screen. And the full Window version.
And on average people keep their pc's for about seven years if i'm not mistaken.
While others pay about $500 for a phone every two years.
And hipsters every year. Well maybe some gearsluts as well.
But on the other hand at least they not spending it on drugs:-)
Still feels like a sociatal wealthdrain though.

Reply Score: 4

RE[7]: Point is...
by Soulbender on Fri 9th Mar 2012 08:45 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Point is..."
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

But on the other hand at least they not spending it on drugs:-)


You could argue that they actually are doing just that ;)
But yeah, $500 for a phone is nuts but I guess it's true what they say; there's one born every minute.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Point is...
by zima on Thu 15th Mar 2012 23:59 UTC in reply to "RE: Point is..."
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

C3 granted, but E5 is a Symbian smartphone, so relatively expensive... (I think one can find decent, if entry level, Androids for around the same price)

Reply Score: 2

RE: Point is...
by fran on Fri 9th Mar 2012 07:50 UTC in reply to "Point is..."
fran Member since:
2010-08-06

If it works Nokia as a company might be too expensive for MS to buy.

Edited 2012-03-09 07:52 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Point is...
by TBPrince on Fri 9th Mar 2012 12:23 UTC in reply to "RE: Point is..."
TBPrince Member since:
2005-07-06

It would be expensive but not too expensive. Just call it merging and give MS enough share to control it.

Anyway, I don't think that will happen because EU won't allow Nokia to be sold to a US company.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Point is...
by dsmogor on Fri 9th Mar 2012 21:28 UTC in reply to "RE: Point is..."
dsmogor Member since:
2005-09-01

Currently parts of Nokia (maps, phones, smarphones, NSN) have more projected market valuation that the whole. So buying the company, splitting, selling off unneeded parts to the Chinese may end up on 0 balance.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Point is...
by zima on Thu 15th Mar 2012 23:31 UTC in reply to "Point is..."
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

My bet is they will not be allowed to buy Nokia by the EU ;-)

I don't think that will happen because EU won't allow Nokia to be sold to a US company.

Why wouldn't the EU allow it, while allowing for fairly close relation that's already in place? (including closures of some EU Nokia plants, pushed by ex-MS CEO)

And, in the past, the EU allowing for the sale of Skype, one of the largest (already by then, now probably the largest, operations still based in the EU) carriers of international traffic, to several US companies by now ...including Microsoft.

Or, while the EU allows plenty of US-based equipment in its public services networks (non-consumer division of Motorola) or military structures.



BTW, there are reallu no 50-100€ Symbian smartphones, they basically start at the ~100 mark.
50-100 is the range of S40 "dumbphones" ...and S40 is NOT Symbian.
Unified doesn't work for Nokia, they still sell tons of even S30, they would have to outright ignore tons of their present buyers.

Reply Score: 2

v .
by marcp on Thu 8th Mar 2012 21:25 UTC
RE: .
by helf on Fri 9th Mar 2012 13:30 UTC in reply to "."
helf Member since:
2005-07-06

Thank you for this amazingly insightful and thought provoking comment! Such depth of thought is astounding!

*sent from an HTC Arrive running WP7.5*

Reply Score: 2

what
by fran on Thu 8th Mar 2012 22:09 UTC
fran
Member since:
2010-08-06

This is ridiculous. People who'll buy it will probably not know they are really buying a Windows Phone Starter edition phone.
Isn't the fact that the screen smaller, processor slower enough to even further cripple the software.

Edited 2012-03-08 22:10 UTC

Reply Score: 4

RE: what
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Fri 9th Mar 2012 00:03 UTC in reply to "what"
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

You're right, people won't know that its not the best version of windows phone 7. For better or worse. So if its terrible on these lower end phones, they won't upgrade.

I think Android handsets look visually different enough on visually different hardware, that people seem to blame the actual handset rather than the OS. With windows... They all kind of look the same to me.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: what
by tomcat on Fri 9th Mar 2012 03:16 UTC in reply to "RE: what"
tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

You're right, people won't know that its not the best version of windows phone 7. For better or worse. So if its terrible on these lower end phones, they won't upgrade.


You're assuming that Nokia isn't going to differentiate the UI experience. Which is an incorrect assumption. Microsoft gave Nokia the ability to tailor the UI for both its high-end and low-end phones -- with Microsoft's cooperation.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: what
by dsmogor on Fri 9th Mar 2012 21:29 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: what"
dsmogor Member since:
2005-09-01

Elop himself stated WP7 is so good Nokia can't add value to its UI.

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: what
by tomcat on Tue 13th Mar 2012 21:34 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: what"
tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

You do understand the difference between marketing and engineering, right?

Reply Score: 2