Linked by Kaj-de-Vos on Thu 15th Mar 2012 12:48 UTC
Syllable, AtheOS Version 0.2.5 of the new Red/System programming language has been released, after it celebrated its first birthday at the third Red Developers Conference. Bindings with the standard C library, cURL, SDL and SQLite that were developed over the past year are now properly supported on Syllable Desktop. Conference videos introduce Red/System and the bindings. Earlier, new floating point support was released (Mandelbrot screenshot; demo source, see the .reds file).
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REBOL
by Tuishimi on Thu 15th Mar 2012 17:34 UTC
Tuishimi
Member since:
2005-07-06

I remember playing with Rebol when it was first being developed... it was an interesting language. I hadn't realized it caught on in the web/scripting dev world.

ANyway, I wish the RED people luck!

Reply Score: 2

Meh...
by Ventajou on Thu 15th Mar 2012 23:22 UTC
Ventajou
Member since:
2006-10-31

Not enough curly braces...

Reply Score: 2

Comment by henderson101
by henderson101 on Fri 16th Mar 2012 09:46 UTC
henderson101
Member since:
2006-05-30

Now do something interesting with those bindings. Otherwise, give up.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by henderson101
by Kaj-de-Vos on Fri 16th Mar 2012 12:07 UTC in reply to "Comment by henderson101"
Kaj-de-Vos Member since:
2010-06-09
RE[2]: Comment by henderson101
by fran on Fri 16th Mar 2012 14:22 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by henderson101"
fran Member since:
2010-08-06



Maybe screen capture would have worked better:-)

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment by henderson101
by Kaj-de-Vos on Fri 16th Mar 2012 14:36 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by henderson101"
Kaj-de-Vos Member since:
2010-06-09

Perhaps, but this is not a presentation video, but a recording of a workshop during a conference. The main goal is to present the computer screen to the audience. And we must do it with all the diverse laptops that the speakers bring, so we can't rely on software that needs to be installed.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Comment by henderson101
by fran on Sun 18th Mar 2012 17:38 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by henderson101"
fran Member since:
2010-08-06

Just want to say, I think it is great what the syllable team is doing. From the comments I gather you have a difficult job keeping everyone happy. The zeitgeist in the comment thread was not that good. Is unfortunate because the syllable is of the few teams that actually contribute articles.
All the best.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Comment by henderson101
by cipri on Sun 18th Mar 2012 18:04 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by henderson101"
cipri Member since:
2007-02-15

Just want to say, I think it is great what the syllable team is doing.


Perhaps you can specify, what is great that syllable team (?) is doing?

And who is part of the syllable team? People you see on wikipedia as "syllable devs" are already working at pyro-os, and the others are mostly non-active related to syllable.
So perhaps that's a great opportunity for kaj to start updating the wikipedia pages, so that it reflects the reality better.

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Comment by henderson101
by -pekr- on Sun 18th Mar 2012 18:14 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by henderson101"
-pekr- Member since:
2006-03-28

... and to make you finally happy, after all those years of constant ranting towards Kaj and "scripting languages" - LOL :-)

Reply Score: 1

RE[6]: Comment by henderson101
by Kaj-de-Vos on Sun 18th Mar 2012 21:00 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by henderson101"
Kaj-de-Vos Member since:
2010-06-09

Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a shop window for projects to present themselves. We are not responsible for it and we are not even allowed to edit our Syllable page, because we are stakeholders. I only edit it to correct indisputable facts, such as broken links.

Wikipedia users who are discontent with the info should correct it, so that would be you.

Reply Score: 1

RE[6]: Comment by henderson101
by wannabe geek on Tue 20th Mar 2012 01:15 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by henderson101"
wannabe geek Member since:
2006-09-27


And who is part of the syllable team? People you see on wikipedia as "syllable devs" are already working at pyro-os, and the others are mostly non-active related to syllable.


What's up with that Pyro-OS? I've tried to find information about it, but there seems to be preciously little. I only know it is a Syllable fork, that the split (apparently) was not very friendly, and that the devs want to emit as little CO2 as possible.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Comment by henderson101
by Kaj-de-Vos on Sun 18th Mar 2012 20:52 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by henderson101"
Kaj-de-Vos Member since:
2010-06-09

Thanks, feedback like this is important to keep our spirits up. We appreciate it.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Comment by henderson101
by henderson101 on Fri 16th Mar 2012 18:56 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by henderson101"
henderson101 Member since:
2006-05-30

I'm sorry, you missed the implied [with Syllable].

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: Comment by henderson101
by Kaj-de-Vos on Fri 16th Mar 2012 20:43 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by henderson101"
Kaj-de-Vos Member since:
2010-06-09

You missed the article text that these bindings are developed on Syllable Server.

Reply Score: 0

RE[4]: Comment by henderson101
by zima on Tue 20th Mar 2012 00:47 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by henderson101"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

On Linux, you mean?

Reply Score: 2

demetrioussharpe Member since:
2009-01-09

I'm sorry, you missed the implied [with Syllable].


Something useful has been done with Syllable, it's been forked.

See:

http://opensourcedays.org/2012/node/93

and

http://www.pyro-os.org

We don't have enough content on the website yet, but something's been & continuing to be done.

Reply Score: 4

RE[4]: Comment by henderson101
by Kaj-de-Vos on Sat 17th Mar 2012 01:28 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by henderson101"
Kaj-de-Vos Member since:
2010-06-09

Cool, you should have done that four years ago. :-)

Reply Score: 0

RE[5]: Comment by henderson101
by cipri on Sat 17th Mar 2012 01:44 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by henderson101"
cipri Member since:
2007-02-15

Yes, I guess you are happy now, hoping that like that syllable can finally improve, by leting dee and the others work/develop.... and then port it back to syllable. Too bad they let you wait 4 years :-)

Reply Score: 1

RE[6]: Comment by henderson101
by Kaj-de-Vos on Sat 17th Mar 2012 01:53 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by henderson101"
Kaj-de-Vos Member since:
2010-06-09

I guess you also missed the paragraph in the article that a new Syllable Desktop development version was released a month ago.

Reply Score: 0

RE[7]: Comment by henderson101
by chamel on Sat 17th Mar 2012 10:08 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Comment by henderson101"
chamel Member since:
2011-06-17

The development build you are referring was not built from cvs code, more looks like a custom old 0.6.7 dev build. Why? Kernel is not from CVS, and the last change that greatly effected it was 23 month ago, very stupid, "renaming bin to programs", there is no path like /boot/system/programs/init in this release, it would fail booting if kernel was from cvs. If soundblaster works in this version this is probably a custom 0.6.6, oss port was updated but driver wasn't.

Reply Score: 2

demetrioussharpe Member since:
2009-01-09

Cool, you should have done that four years ago. :-)


Four years ago I was recuperating from Iraq & dual surgeries on each ankle. Besides, I'm not the one who created the fork, I just happened to join.

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: Comment by henderson101
by cipri on Sat 17th Mar 2012 01:38 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by henderson101"
cipri Member since:
2007-02-15

Finally a good news related to syllable.
I guess you noticed that haiku is going (hopefully soon) to get gallium3d working, i hope you can borrow something from them ;) .

I think it will be very difficult for you, because syllable has a really very incomplete api.
In many aspect haiku and syllable are quite similar, that's why i still dont understand why you didnt take haiku-gcc4 and build on top of that.

I'm really happy to see hope for new and real development and not "scripting languages" in very early development status.

my best wishes for you and pyro.

Reply Score: 2

demetrioussharpe Member since:
2009-01-09

Finally a good news related to syllable.
I guess you noticed that haiku is going (hopefully soon) to get gallium3d working, i hope you can borrow something from them ;) .


I know, I've been working on doing so for BOTH Pyro & Haiku. I'm trying to figure out how to use the pipe drivers without needing DRI/DRM. It's painfully obvious that DRI/DRM don't make sense for OS's like ours, we aren't working with the same core principles that *nix derivatives work with.


I think it will be very difficult for you, because syllable has a really very incomplete api.
In many aspect haiku and syllable are quite similar, that's why i still dont understand why you didnt take haiku-gcc4 and build on top of that.


It's simple, really. Currently, OSes like ours aren't on anyone's radar. The open sourced *nix clones have become successful & virtually slammed the door behind them. In order for OSes like ours to succeed, we must build a common community much like the overall *nix community that's shared by Linux, BSD, MacOS X, & all of the proprietary *nix systems. The only successful way forward is for Haiku, Pyro, & Syllable to create a larger overall community of cooperation. I first realized that this was necessary a few years ago & my original idea called for four main OSes - the three that I've already named & SkyOS. Unfortunately, SkyOS didn't make it. Just as unfortunate, it seems as though major development on Syllable (Desktop) itself has slowed down even more. I was hoping that they'd be able to work through their manpower problems & focus on getting Desktop back on track. Perhaps that'll still happen.


I'm really happy to see hope for new and real development and not "scripting languages" in very early development status.


There's still time for development on Syllable. A new group of developers could always join & help push things along. Regardless, in order for any of us to be successful, there needs to be more of us. More of our style of OS, more developers, & more users. If Syllable fails, then that weakens all of us. However, I had to move forward on things that I thought were necessary, so I joined a group that would allow that to happen.


my best wishes for you and pyro.


Thanks. May we all prosper!

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Comment by henderson101
by moondevil on Sat 17th Mar 2012 10:06 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by henderson101"
moondevil Member since:
2005-07-08

"Finally a good news related to syllable.
I guess you noticed that haiku is going (hopefully soon) to get gallium3d working, i hope you can borrow something from them ;) .


I know, I've been working on doing so for BOTH Pyro & Haiku. I'm trying to figure out how to use the pipe drivers without needing DRI/DRM. It's painfully obvious that DRI/DRM don't make sense for OS's like ours, we aren't working with the same core principles that *nix derivatives work with.


I think it will be very difficult for you, because syllable has a really very incomplete api.
In many aspect haiku and syllable are quite similar, that's why i still dont understand why you didnt take haiku-gcc4 and build on top of that.


It's simple, really. Currently, OSes like ours aren't on anyone's radar. The open sourced *nix clones have become successful & virtually slammed the door behind them. In order for OSes like ours to succeed, we must build a common community much like the overall *nix community that's shared by Linux, BSD, MacOS X, & all of the proprietary *nix systems. The only successful way forward is for Haiku, Pyro, & Syllable to create a larger overall community of cooperation. I first realized that this was necessary a few years ago & my original idea called for four main OSes - the three that I've already named & SkyOS. Unfortunately, SkyOS didn't make it. Just as unfortunate, it seems as though major development on Syllable (Desktop) itself has slowed down even more. I was hoping that they'd be able to work through their manpower problems & focus on getting Desktop back on track. Perhaps that'll still happen.
"

Not to put you off, but the only reason UNIX clones become successful was that many companies saw a way out to get off commercial UNIX systems, while preserving their investments, thus they allowed some of their employees to invest on getting them better.

I don't believe besides Windows and UNIX compatible systems, any other system will get successful.

It just the way it is, sadly.

This being OSNews, I wish you all the luck for your project.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Comment by henderson101
by chamel on Sat 17th Mar 2012 08:34 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by henderson101"
chamel Member since:
2011-06-17

I hope the development process will be OPEN and not closed as it is in Syllable.

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Comment by henderson101
by BurningShadow on Sat 17th Mar 2012 08:40 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by henderson101"
BurningShadow Member since:
2006-09-07

I assure you, that is our intentions!

Reply Score: 2

demetrioussharpe Member since:
2009-01-09

I hope the development process will be OPEN and not closed as it is in Syllable.


That's the plan, but it won't really matter if developers don't join our team. So, I hope this is an expression of interest in donating your time towards development.

Reply Score: 1

RE[6]: Comment by henderson101
by chamel on Sat 17th Mar 2012 10:13 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by henderson101"
chamel Member since:
2011-06-17

I will be happy to contribute, one or two lines of code, maybe more.

Reply Score: 1

Comment by cipri
by cipri on Mon 19th Mar 2012 00:38 UTC
cipri
Member since:
2007-02-15

look at that video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDd5rdNPCg0


now i would love to see the same but for syllable ;) )

Reply Score: 1

dylansmrjones
Member since:
2005-10-02

Where's the ISO and what is the state of 64-bit builds?

Reply Score: 2

BurningShadow Member since:
2006-09-07

We hope the release will be ready within the next week or so. 32bit only...

Reply Score: 1

Congrats!
by zima on Tue 20th Mar 2012 00:55 UTC
zima
Member since:
2005-07-06

I believe this is the first time when I realized how indecent a representation of Mandelbrot set ( http://web.syllable.org/images/screenshots/Desktop/0.6.7/Red-C-libr... ) can be ;) (I guess thanks to "shading" - or lack of it - used, and/or a bit unorthodox orientation, you somehow made it's bottom reminiscent of, well, bottoms ;) )

Reply Score: 2

GTK binding
by Jett on Tue 20th Mar 2012 06:03 UTC
Jett
Member since:
2007-07-08

Kaj,

With the RED - GTK binding have you soften your stance on GTK coming to desktop. ( And no I am not meaning to rehash discussions about cairo being on Syllable with the Pyro guys when I used to follow the Syllable mailing lists civil answers from all would be appreciated)
I am curious because now that you have it (a GTK binding) will it be moving to desktop.

I also notice in Nenad tweets enlightenment with Red
http://twitter.com/#!/red_lang


http://web.syllable.org/images/screenshots/Workstation/0.4/Evas-exa...


I have also been following Haiku mailing list there is a healthy discussion at the moment of maybe making QT a native api over the Haiku kernel. I don't think it will go ahead but you never know. It's an interesting idea thou making QT basically a native OS rather then an add on to Linux.

What are your thoughts for Syllable for the future.

Improve the current API
Move more to a GTK base with RED and Syllable
Move Syllable move to Red - enlightenment based api

I wish everybody the best

Pyro, Syllable and Haiku

Reply Score: 1

RE: GTK binding
by Kaj-de-Vos on Tue 20th Mar 2012 12:19 UTC in reply to "GTK binding "
Kaj-de-Vos Member since:
2010-06-09

Red and Syllable overlap, but they're not the same project. Some things I do for Red are hard to bring to Syllable. However, it has always been my goal to bring the Syllable and REBOL lines together, so yes, I would like to get more of Red's abilities to work on Syllable Desktop. To make that easier, I slice it into smaller steps by first developing them on Syllable Server.

I am indeed looking into Enlightenment and GTK+, but as of yet, they're not ported to Syllable Desktop. Qt is still not very useful to us in this context, because C++ interfaces are hard and inefficient to bind to any other language. Not many toolkits written in C remain, so GTK+ and Enlightenment are the natural ones to bind to Red (or any other non-C++ language).

Unfortunately, GTK+ and Qt are still extremely bloated, and they're not designed for the Syllable architecture, so our misgivings about them remain in that respect. As I hope you remember, we have always said we don't object to anyone porting them, but we don't have the time to do it ourselves, and we won't suddenly start liking them. Then again, despite much talk, nobody actually ported them, so we may have to do it ourselves eventually. Despite even more talk, nobody wrote many native Syllable programs, either, so we do have to look into other ways to get applications, even if they don't fit the Syllable architecture perfectly.

Reply Score: 1