Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 20th Mar 2012 23:00 UTC
Legal Some people (you know who) predicted the Oracle-Google lawsuit would spell doom for Google and Android. Well, turns out this was all a huge fuss over nothing. Oracle's damages claim started at an idiotic $6 billion - but the final claim is less than $100 million. Oracle's patent trolling is turning into a huge failure of epic proportions.
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On the loosing trail
by siki_miki on Tue 20th Mar 2012 23:22 UTC
siki_miki
Member since:
2006-01-17

Not only damages, but the number of valid Sun/Oracle patents was heavily slashed, so the remaining _one_ will probably be worked around even if they win.
What's left for them is copyright part, on which they will most likely loose because there is a general consensus that API's aren't copyrightable. So the injuction is now very unlikely.

Larry didn't deserve better over all the damage he had done. And even if the pre-acquisition Sun sued, Google only reused the familiar language and not much else. Sole reason why this lawsuit exists is because they didn't fork the GPL+classpath version of Java, but used a Harmony implementation and built a custom VM - one thing on which Sun had a lot of IP (but also with a lot of prior art). Sun anyway opted for a Java "giveaway" with GPL-ed version and technically Google was able to build a version of Android based on it, and be protected from both patent and copyright claims.

Reply Score: 12

Patent wars
by acobar on Wed 21st Mar 2012 01:12 UTC
acobar
Member since:
2005-11-15

I wonder how many MS patents would be invalidated had the companies they extorted opted to a courtroom battle. But I understand that having MS the market dominance they have on desktops, it would be counterproductive to risk lose the benefits associated to MS license discounts.

Reply Score: 7

RE: Patent wars
by fretinator on Wed 21st Mar 2012 14:18 UTC in reply to "Patent wars"
fretinator Member since:
2005-07-06

Not to mention, most companies wouldn't even have the cash to withstand a court battle against Microsoft. That's the main reason people go along with the extortion - they have no choice. They have to pay up, or close up shop. Only companies like Google can stand up against a company the size of Oracle.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Patent wars
by Digsbo on Wed 21st Mar 2012 14:33 UTC in reply to "RE: Patent wars"
Digsbo Member since:
2011-10-04

And more, what is the cost of shelved or delayed product development efforts that are put on hold during court proceeding? This "interference effect" in a company's operations can cause significant reductions in output and ability to bring new ideas to market. Even a failed lawsuit against a company that can afford to fight it might delay a product launch by six months or more, which in many cases could kill the business case to launch the product at all.

Reply Score: 3

Comment by ilovebeer
by ilovebeer on Wed 21st Mar 2012 07:14 UTC
ilovebeer
Member since:
2011-08-08

I'd love to hear how a win here is a "huge failure of epic proportions".

Reply Score: 1

RE: Comment by ilovebeer
by MOS6510 on Wed 21st Mar 2012 08:28 UTC in reply to "Comment by ilovebeer"
MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

I sometimes think Thom got a lot of inspiration from the former Iraqi minister of information. Any Google/Samsung defeat is labeled a "victory" for some strange reason.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Comment by ilovebeer
by Thom_Holwerda on Wed 21st Mar 2012 09:40 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by ilovebeer"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

From 6 billion and a gazillion patents to a paltry 100 million and 1 patent, which may even be discarded as well. How that is not a victory is beyond me.

Unless, of course, you're an Apple fanatic.

Edited 2012-03-21 09:41 UTC

Reply Score: 8

RE[3]: Comment by ilovebeer
by MOS6510 on Wed 21st Mar 2012 09:48 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by ilovebeer"
MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

Despite you paying attention to this patent stuff or any other court cases for some time you still don't know how it works. You keep presenting it in a childish good vs bad and I win and you lose scenario. Or worse, "I lost, but I didn't want to win anyway, so I still got the better of you, nananah".

They start with a claim of Big X and present as evidence Big Y. Most cases don't end in a victory for either party, but in a settlement. During the proceedings Big X goes down to Small X and Big Y to Small Y. This sets things up for a settlement both parties agree too and live goes on.

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: Comment by ilovebeer
by Thom_Holwerda on Wed 21st Mar 2012 09:59 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by ilovebeer"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

The way things are going, there's not even going to BE a settlement.

This is nothing but a major defeat for Oracle - 1.5% of your original claim is a huge defeat, strategy or no. Especially when you consider that there's a fair chance the last patent gets thrown out as well.

If a patent troll loses, then yes, that makes me happy. This is indeed a bad vs. good discussion - software patents are bad, so anything that challenges them is a good thing. I know that as an Apple fanatic, you adore software patents, but virtually everyone else despises them for their destructive effect on the industry.

Reply Score: 6

RE[5]: Comment by ilovebeer
by MOS6510 on Wed 21st Mar 2012 10:03 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by ilovebeer"
MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

Do some searching in the comments history and you'll probably find a number of quotes where I'm in fact very opposed to software patents.

The world isn't black and white and Apple users aren't all Steve Jobs clones.

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Comment by ilovebeer
by Thom_Holwerda on Wed 21st Mar 2012 10:08 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by ilovebeer"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Do some searching in the comments history and you'll probably find a number of quotes where I'm in fact very opposed to software patents.

The world isn't black and white and Apple users aren't all Steve Jobs clones.


So, you are in fact opposed to Apple's software patent trolling? You are glad that Apple pretty much lost most of its patent troll cases against Samsung?

That's a first for me. Good on you.

Reply Score: 2

v RE[7]: Comment by ilovebeer
by MOS6510 on Wed 21st Mar 2012 10:15 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Comment by ilovebeer"
RE[5]: Comment by ilovebeer
by Sodki on Wed 21st Mar 2012 14:22 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by ilovebeer"
Sodki Member since:
2005-11-10

The way things are going, there's not even going to BE a settlement.

This is nothing but a major defeat for Oracle - 1.5% of your original claim is a huge defeat, strategy or no. Especially when you consider that there's a fair chance the last patent gets thrown out as well.


Only if Oracle loses will I call this a defeat. If Oracle wins, it's a major win, one with incredible ramifications. Don't cry wolf just yet.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment by ilovebeer
by ilovebeer on Wed 21st Mar 2012 16:59 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by ilovebeer"
ilovebeer Member since:
2011-08-08

From 6 billion and a gazillion patents to a paltry 100 million and 1 patent, which may even be discarded as well. How that is not a victory is beyond me.

MOS6510 already pointed out how you apparently don't understand how lawsuits and settlement strategies work. If they win their lawsuit, that is certainly not a loss. I guess you think if two teams are playing soccer, and teamA scores, teamB magically gets the point somehow.

Unless, of course, you're an Apple fanatic.

Why are you so obsessed with Apple? You're like a stalker ex-girlfriend with them -- watching their every move and constantly talking about them. Whatever you're so butthurt about, move on already. Life is short.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Comment by ilovebeer
by lemur2 on Thu 22nd Mar 2012 00:32 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by ilovebeer"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

"From 6 billion and a gazillion patents to a paltry 100 million and 1 patent, which may even be discarded as well. How that is not a victory is beyond me.

MOS6510 already pointed out how you apparently don't understand how lawsuits and settlement strategies work. If they win their lawsuit, that is certainly not a loss. I guess you think if two teams are playing soccer, and teamA scores, teamB magically gets the point somehow.
"

A lawsuit isn't a soccer game, it is more like a turn-based strategy game. The thing is, just because Oracle started this dispute doesn't mean they are the only side which gets a turn. After Oracle has thoroughly fumbled a six billion dollar ball and been left with a poor chance of getting less than a hundred million, Google then gets a turn to get recompense from Oracle for falsely asking for six billion.

Here is a brief introduction to how some of this works:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damages

Reply Score: 3

Android
by Drunkula on Wed 21st Mar 2012 12:50 UTC
Drunkula
Member since:
2009-09-03

Uhh wasn't Google working on Android before the iPhone ever came out?

Reply Score: 2

RE: Android
by MOS6510 on Wed 21st Mar 2012 13:05 UTC in reply to "Android"
MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

They bought it in 2005 and released it, IIRC, in 2008.

So probably before 2005 work was done it. It's hard to tell when Apple started on the iPhone.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Android
by tylerdurden on Wed 21st Mar 2012 22:22 UTC in reply to "RE: Android"
tylerdurden Member since:
2009-03-17

Adroid started around 2000ish, most of the claims against it by apple are centered around the change of form factors. Which are moot, since the iPhone also went through different design exploration iterations during its initial development phase.

Reply Score: 6

winning
by TechGeek on Wed 21st Mar 2012 22:18 UTC
TechGeek
Member since:
2006-01-14

People here seem to think that even if Oracle only wins $1 million its going to be this great victory. Your missing the point. They may have won the battle, but they lost the war. They started out claiming that Google owed them $6 Billion. Now damages are down to around a million. And its not even over. Google can still push to have the remaining patent ruled invalid if it isn't by end of the case. Oracle has basically used all its ammunition. Google can now start working on damages from the false claims. Oracle is going to lose money on this, even if they win. And it won't stop Android in the slightest. But if you want to call that a win for Oracle, then by all means.

Reply Score: 8

RE: winning
by acobar on Thu 22nd Mar 2012 12:13 UTC in reply to "winning"
acobar Member since:
2005-11-15

Agreed.

What is astonishing to me is how some stubborn heads are so assertive on subjects they don't have a thorough knowledge or, what is almost the same, they are so on subjects that are full of uncertainty, like the ones linked to economics or law. I guess I should not.

Reply Score: 2