Linked by fran on Thu 5th Apr 2012 20:41 UTC
Linux "Over a thousand developers contribute code to any given Linux kernel release. It's a process that works well from a technical perspective, but it's also one that has its fair share of shortcomings. In a panel at the Linux Foundation Collaboration summit this week, top Linux kernel developers detailed their common pet peeves about the Linux development model. It's a model that is not for the feint of heart ."
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The devs feint! Linux ripostes!
by Dasher42 on Thu 5th Apr 2012 21:29 UTC
Dasher42
Member since:
2007-04-05

But I find that Thibault cancels out Capa Ferro. Don't you?

Edited 2012-04-05 21:31 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE: The devs feint! Linux ripostes!
by gus3 on Thu 5th Apr 2012 23:38 UTC in reply to "The devs feint! Linux ripostes!"
gus3 Member since:
2010-09-02

Thank you. I wasn't sure if I should say anything, but you did, and so much better than I ever could have.

Reply Score: 1

Sigh
by sarahannalien on Fri 6th Apr 2012 00:14 UTC
sarahannalien
Member since:
2009-05-07

Linux founder Linus Torvalds this week wrote in posting that, "publicly making fun of people is half the fun of open source programming." He also noted that, "the real reason to eschew programming in closed environments is that you can't embarrass people in public."

This is actually one of the biggest reasons I've never made any effort to contribute to an
open source community. I'd like to, am probably qualified to do so, and would enjoy doing so, but am unwilling to endure the requisite abuse.

Now to be fair, not every open source community is like that... but I've seen it often enough over the last 20 years that I sometimes wish I'd chosen a career outside of computing.

Reply Score: 5

RE: Sigh
by tylerdurden on Fri 6th Apr 2012 01:40 UTC in reply to "Sigh"
tylerdurden Member since:
2009-03-17

Thickness of skin and depth of skills/ability are usually correlated...

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Sigh
by jburnett on Fri 6th Apr 2012 04:40 UTC in reply to "RE: Sigh"
jburnett Member since:
2012-03-29

No kidding. The more I learn about programming, and life for that matter, the more I realize I suck at it. The best part of open source is that I can see that I definitely suck at it less than some people... and more than a whole lot more.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Sigh
by BluenoseJake on Fri 6th Apr 2012 11:30 UTC in reply to "RE: Sigh"
BluenoseJake Member since:
2005-08-11

Inversely, I find. The better at something somebody is, the less likely they can take any criticism.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Sigh
by lucas_maximus on Fri 6th Apr 2012 18:12 UTC in reply to "RE: Sigh"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

Thickness of skin and depth of skills/ability are usually correlated...


Utter bullshit.

It totally dependant on somebodies personality.

Muhammed Ali slagged Joe Frasier off, if you watch the documentary about the fight ... Joe pretty much was fighting half the fight almost blind while going toe to toe with Ali.

Valentino Rossi and Arnold Schwarzenegger (BodyBuilding careed) used to try to humiliate their competitors so they were wound up and couldn't think straight when competing.

Max Biaggi was a very good MotoGP rider and was every bit good as Rossi, however if someone gets under your skin you tend not to think right and Rossi knew this.

While sports is about competing, open source is about co-operation ... pissing people off has been proven pretty much everytime to be counter that goal.

Edited 2012-04-06 18:15 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Sigh
by tylerdurden on Fri 6th Apr 2012 19:32 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Sigh"
tylerdurden Member since:
2009-03-17

The false equivalence(s) put forth, which were triggered, I assume, by the thin skin involved... prove my point in a hilarious fashion.

Thanks.


Here is a hint: if you know what you are doing. Chances are you can understand whether criticism is due, and thus you can learn from it, or you can ignore it if its nothing more than a passive aggressive call for attention from someone at the other end of another computer far far away.

Yes, some people are assholes. But that is a general human constant regardless of whether one is involved in a open source project or not.

Edited 2012-04-06 19:37 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Sigh
by lucas_maximus on Fri 6th Apr 2012 19:54 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Sigh"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

The false equivalence(s) put forth, which were triggered, I assume, by the thin skin involved... prove my point in a hilarious fashion.

Thanks.


I actually said it was utter bullshit not because I have a thin skin because it was the most appropriate comment.

You were just pigeon holeing everyone into one little box and claiming that everyone reacts the same to criticism.

Claiming they are false equivalences doesn't make them so.

You were claiming that those who do how to do something will just shrug off those berate them.

I gave two examples where different personality traits had very different outcomes, even though their ability were equal to their competitors.

You had no counter argument and called it a false equivalences and then declared yourself correct

:yawn: I suppose this is OSNEWS.

Here is a hint: if you know what you are doing. Chances are you can understand whether criticism is due, and thus you can learn from it, or you can ignore it if its nothing more than a passive aggressive call for attention from someone at the other end of another computer far far away.


Actually not always. I have found while working those that are most confident about their abilities are usually the worst, usually because it turns into ignorance and lack of an inner voice.

As I said upsetting people doesn't get you anywhere. Ulrich Drepper is a well known arsehole that looked after glibc, he was such an arsehole they basically forked it.

http://blog.aurel32.net/47

And Ullrich acting like a dick.

http://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=5070

He held back GNU C library because he didn't want to listen to anyone except for himself and acted like an arsehole.

I have worked with people like him and they generally didn't last very long under employment.

Because you are working on an Open Source project doesn't mean you get a free ticket act like an arsehole.

Yes, some people are assholes. But that is a general human constant regardless of whether one is involved in a open source project or not.


Actually I work with many other develpers and while I think that some of them aren't up to scratch it isn't my problem ... I am not their manager.

However when something is going wrong I tend to politely ask them to do it the right way. If they continue doing it in a way that is detrimental to a project, I will consult my boss and go through the official channels.

Outwards calling acting like an arsehole doesn't get you anyway ... and arguing back in an unprofessional way makes you a bigger arsehole and alienates those that would otherwise be on your side.

BTW: Unless you have holes with asses (they are similar to donkeys) in them ... the person is acting like an arsehole ;-)

Edited 2012-04-06 20:11 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Sigh
by Tuishimi on Fri 6th Apr 2012 21:16 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Sigh"
Tuishimi Member since:
2005-07-06

No, he's right. I have a living example, my son. He borders on, or is genius (hasn't been tested) but because he fears ridicule he won't do ANYTHING until he's practiced it hidden in his room for … ever. It goes beyond physical things as well. It takes us forever to coax him to do anything. My daughter doesn't give a whit... she'll do something even if she does it poorly and doesn't much care what you think.

I'm more like her... I've been programming for 27 years now and I've seen and heard it all. My coding style hasn't changed too much in all that time, I think you sort of latch onto a personal style early on... but I've had people say I don't comment enough, I comment too much, my code's too verbose, my code's too obtuse... etc.

One thing I tend to do, and it might raise criticism, but I don't really care, is that I often choose algorithms or code statements that are more descriptive than efficient (unless of course the code in question really needs maximum efficiency) because I want my code to be self explanatory for the next person who has to work on it. I also do comment heavily (probably too heavily - but I enjoy leaving little comedic excerpts for people later on ;) .

I don't know. I've worked on operating systems, real-time banking applications, warehouse distribution software and for the last decade or so, web apps... and I've seen people belittle other people for poor reasons. I think peer code review, with guidelines and in a professional environment, is better than some public forum where people don't seem to know how to be constructive, only insulting.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Sigh
by Soulbender on Sat 7th Apr 2012 03:26 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Sigh"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

To be honest, I think the distribution between skilled people with thick skin and without is probably about 50/50. However, people who think they're better than they actually are usually have very thin skin.

Reply Score: 4

RE[5]: Sigh
by lucas_maximus on Sat 7th Apr 2012 10:07 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Sigh"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

It is pretty anedotal.

I have met those that would create some absolutely crap code and never listen to anything anyone said. Eventually they got the chop.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Sigh
by gan17 on Sun 8th Apr 2012 14:31 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Sigh"
gan17 Member since:
2008-06-03

Valentino Rossi and Arnold Schwarzenegger (BodyBuilding careed) used to try to humiliate their competitors so they were wound up and couldn't think straight when competing.

No idea about the Terminator, but I agree with you on Rossi. Still, you gotta admire the sort of voodoo he pulled on Gibernau.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Sigh
by galvanash on Fri 6th Apr 2012 05:13 UTC in reply to "Sigh"
galvanash Member since:
2006-01-25

Just an observation... I hang on out boards that Linus frequents - he is quite a character and one should wear their flame suite before discussing a topic with him.

But to be honest, I don't find he "makes fun of people" in the traditional sense of ostracizing them. He doesn't at all put people into groups or otherwise treat them like they don't belong. He is quite friendly actually. But he will rip into you if he strongly disagrees with you on something. I find he does this equally with newbies he has never spoken to before as well as developers whose name you would probably recognize.

Just saying he is an equal opportunity offender. I personally don't find it all that off-putting, it's more like an invitation to get the satisfaction of proving him wrong on something, although frankly I find I agree with him almost all the time. I think he can come across as smug and/or hostile sometimes - but imo all it boils down to is he likes arguments...

Edited 2012-04-06 05:15 UTC

Reply Score: 5

RE: Sigh
by ideasman42 on Sun 8th Apr 2012 14:27 UTC in reply to "Sigh"
ideasman42 Member since:
2007-07-20

Just don't take it so personally - you can learn a heck of a lot from peoples comments on your code (even if its a bit embarrassing).

Also, some communities are harsher then others - I wouldnt generalize on linux as being typical for FLOSS dev communities.

Reply Score: 1

Overreaction
by acobar on Sat 7th Apr 2012 11:57 UTC
acobar
Member since:
2005-11-15

That is something we should talk about a lot more on our education. People read too much on critics about some of their work and transfer them to personal level, and it poisons the whole environment somehow, at least to the one affected.

I have worked with all kinds of characters: some brilliant and helpful, some impatient, some that think they are more thoughtful than they are, some that underestimate themselves. I try to evade the interpretation of critics as personal attack as most as I can, even when it seems likely, and learn something from the episode. There is just too much more about life to get pissed off because some of your work would be done better or in a different way.

Reply Score: 2