Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 19th Apr 2012 13:20 UTC
PDAs, Cellphones, Wireless Nokia's results for the first quarter are in... And it's grim. Very grim. We're looking at a net loss of EUR 929 million, an almost complete collapse compared to last year's EUR 344 million profit. It's also almost double the loss analysts expected. Revenue dropped by 29%, too.
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Pact
by gloucestershrubhill on Thu 19th Apr 2012 13:31 UTC
gloucestershrubhill
Member since:
2010-08-10

There's a reason Doctor Faustus endures.

Reply Score: 3

Dead
by CapEnt on Thu 19th Apr 2012 13:52 UTC
CapEnt
Member since:
2005-12-18

He's dead Jim.

Reply Score: 4

Nokia loses mount?
by JAlexoid on Thu 19th Apr 2012 14:09 UTC
JAlexoid
Member since:
2009-05-19

Was it an epic mount? (I kid, I kid)

Reply Score: 3

Comment by tonny
by tonny on Thu 19th Apr 2012 14:13 UTC
tonny
Member since:
2011-12-22

well, looks like they lose their final bet named windows phone...

Reply Score: 3

RE: Comment by tonny
by Jezza on Thu 19th Apr 2012 14:33 UTC in reply to "Comment by tonny"
Jezza Member since:
2005-10-13

I'm sure the Tizen/Mer/KDE chaps would be more than happy to help them get a non-windows smartphone to market quickly.

I'd rather that than they approach Google, but both could only be a Good Thing for Nokia.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Comment by tonny
by tonny on Thu 19th Apr 2012 14:48 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by tonny"
tonny Member since:
2011-12-22

IIRC, google asked Nokia to make phone with Android on it, but Nokia refused. I don't remember the details. better googling for it ;)

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment by tonny
by glarepate on Fri 20th Apr 2012 13:02 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by tonny"
glarepate Member since:
2006-01-04

IIRC, google asked Nokia to make phone with Android on it, but Nokia refused. I don't remember the details. better googling for it ;)


Close. Nokia asked Google for a deal like the one they have, where they had special rights to the code over other vendors. Google told them no.

I have read the article with this information in it but no longer have a link to it, so as you suggest, googling for it is recommended.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by tonny
by kragil on Thu 19th Apr 2012 16:17 UTC in reply to "Comment by tonny"
kragil Member since:
2006-01-04

No, it all going _exactly_ as they planned, but by "they" I mean Elop and Ballmer.
Step 1: Switch to a shitty, way-behind OS nobody wants
Step 2: See your handsets rot in inventory
Step 3: Present very bad results and highlight the fact that you still make lots of money from patents
Step 4: Get bought for a pittance
Step 5: Seller breaks the once great company up and sells/keeps the good parts and lays off most of the people

We are at Step 3 now

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Comment by tonny
by tonny on Thu 19th Apr 2012 16:27 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by tonny"
tonny Member since:
2011-12-22

I used to think that way, but now I'll call it conspiracy theory.. But lets see how far this 'Elop' riding company go..

And to think that smartphone OS didn't have copy-paste until 2010/2011? heheh.. What a modern OS.

Reply Score: 1

fatality
by fran on Thu 19th Apr 2012 14:27 UTC
fran
Member since:
2010-08-06

That carcass is going to be plundered for IP. Only now at much cheaper prices.

Edited 2012-04-19 14:41 UTC

Reply Score: 3

Marketing spending spree
by _cynic_ on Thu 19th Apr 2012 14:41 UTC
_cynic_
Member since:
2012-04-18

How much of that is Nokia's marketing spending spree for WinPhones?

Reply Score: 1

RE: Marketing spending spree
by tanzam75 on Thu 19th Apr 2012 16:16 UTC in reply to "Marketing spending spree"
tanzam75 Member since:
2011-05-19

Hard to tell. Recall that Microsoft is paying for much of the marketing.

Reply Score: 1

After one hundred years
by ebasconp on Thu 19th Apr 2012 15:24 UTC
ebasconp
Member since:
2006-05-09

1912: Titanic sinks
2012: Another big sinking ship sinks: Nokia

Reply Score: 6

RE: After one hundred years
by tanzam75 on Thu 19th Apr 2012 16:40 UTC in reply to "After one hundred years"
tanzam75 Member since:
2011-05-19

No, Nokia will not die in 2012.

Maybe in 2013 if things keep going downhill. Or 2014 if things hit a plateau. Or never if things turn around.

That's because Q1 2012 was the first quarter in which Nokia took a substantial loss on phones. Q4 2011 was break-even. And now the loss for Q1 2012 was EUR 219 million. That's bad, but not yet disastrous.

Hidden behind the doom-and-gloom headline number of EUR 929 million is the fact that Nokia's losses are still being driven primarily by accounting writedowns. Specifically, the EUR 772 million writedown of Nokia Siemens Networks has absolutely nothing to do with how the phone division ("Devices and Services") performed. The writedown hit the balance sheet in 2012 -- but the money was actually wasted in 2006.

Once you learn to read a financial statement, you will have a much better idea of how companies are actually doing. And you will be stunned at how clueless the financial media actually is when it comes to finances.

Reply Score: 11

RE[2]: After one hundred years
by ToddB on Thu 19th Apr 2012 16:52 UTC in reply to "RE: After one hundred years"
ToddB Member since:
2012-01-25

Thank you for explaining that, it makes a lot more sense.

Reply Score: 2

Comment by shmerl
by shmerl on Thu 19th Apr 2012 15:47 UTC
shmerl
Member since:
2010-06-08

Smart learn on others errors. Nokia doesn't, they decided to play a game "dance with M$ and loose". Now they are paying for it.

Reply Score: 5

and here we go...
by arsipaani on Thu 19th Apr 2012 15:50 UTC
arsipaani
Member since:
2010-06-13

Nice work Elop....

Reply Score: 2

RE: and here we go...
by Sodki on Thu 19th Apr 2012 15:56 UTC in reply to "and here we go..."
Sodki Member since:
2005-11-10

Nice work Elop....


Elop is going to make a personal fortune out of Nokia's ashes. He really is doing a good job, too bad it's not for Nokia.

Reply Score: 7

RE[2]: and here we go...
by tonny on Thu 19th Apr 2012 16:06 UTC in reply to "RE: and here we go..."
tonny Member since:
2011-12-22

Yeah. It's a shame. I really like Nokia for their built quality. But, as most old man (old company that too stubborn/proud to change), they think It's OK if they operate with their success formulae.. That outdated..

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: and here we go...
by Vanders on Thu 19th Apr 2012 16:31 UTC in reply to "RE: and here we go..."
Vanders Member since:
2005-07-06

Elop is going to make a personal fortune out of Nokia's ashes.

Doesn't that depend on whether the share holders will be upset enough to get rid of him now?

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: and here we go...
by shmerl on Thu 19th Apr 2012 19:27 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: and here we go..."
shmerl Member since:
2010-06-08

That would depend on whether share holders do or don't mind to get rid of Nokia itself, ripping off some money in result. So far it seems they don't care about company's success.

Edited 2012-04-19 19:28 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: and here we go...
by Vanders on Thu 19th Apr 2012 20:28 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: and here we go..."
Vanders Member since:
2005-07-06

This is true. I guess we'll see over the next few months. Either Elop will be gone, or the asset striping will have begun.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: and here we go...
by glarepate on Fri 20th Apr 2012 13:06 UTC in reply to "RE: and here we go..."
glarepate Member since:
2006-01-04

His compensation is tied to the stock price.

But if I made as much as he does for failing I would still consider myself rich.

Reply Score: 2

Excellent,
by reduz on Thu 19th Apr 2012 19:50 UTC
reduz
Member since:
2006-02-25

This is better than I previously thought.
As soon as Nokia collapses as the result of having embraced Windows Phone (because, obviously, they could have clearly saved their asses going Android), no other device maker or retailer will EVER want to push Windows Phone again, Steve Ballmer will finally be kicked out of the company and Microsoft will stop trying to embrace every market like a giant octopus and go the way of IBM. Then, the tech world will be a better place.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Excellent,
by ricegf on Fri 20th Apr 2012 00:09 UTC in reply to "Excellent, "
ricegf Member since:
2007-04-25

Adding Android to create a three-pronged strategy made perfect sense to me.

1. Keep touting Symbian at the low-end (now with Qt! - it's your cash cow, keep milking it for cash flow from its legions of fans).

2. Push Android for the mid-range market (and find a way for your carefully cultivated army of Qt developers to quickly port to / co-develop for Android's Dalvik, rewarding their loyalty and earning their trust).

3. Keep touting MeeGo for the high-end / technologist market (with a nice Dalvik run-time for the best of both worlds - MeeGo got rave reviews, runs Qt apps like Symbian, and geeks like me were absolutely salivating for it and would happily have paid iPhone-like premiums for quality MeeGo phones if it had a future).

All three were open source and a great fit for the Nokia culture and traditions, and would have given Nokia a play in over 70% of the smartphone market OSes. With their quality hardware and reputation, their future would have been secure.

A CEO would have to be a dolt to miss something this obvious. Oh, hello, Mr. Elop...

Reply Score: 4

Such a shame
by plague on Thu 19th Apr 2012 19:52 UTC
plague
Member since:
2006-05-08

Man I hate this..
I've always preferred Nokia phones, always, until they went to bed with Microsoft.
Make some high-end phones and put Android on them and I will buy them, don't and I won't.
It's pretty obvious alot of people feel the same.

I absolutely _love_ the design of the N9, perfect design, perfect size. Put a faster chip in it and put Android on it. Sell it and collect the money. How hard can it be?
They didn't want to become just another Android OEM? They wanted to differentiate?
Well, they are different now, by beeing the only company clinging to _only_ Windows Phone, but to me it sure looks like they are just another Windows Phone OEM. How is that any better than beeing an Android OEM? Atleast Android sell.
Stupid Elop, choose another company to sink. And Nokia, why are you _allowing_ him to sink you?
/rant

Reply Score: 2

RE: Such a shame
by shmerl on Thu 19th Apr 2012 20:21 UTC in reply to "Such a shame"
shmerl Member since:
2010-06-08

No, there are enough Android vendors around already without Nokia. Better they should put a better chip and run normal Linux on it, facilitate Wayland development and etc. Nokia was on that track but stumbled over MS money. They should just go back.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Such a shame
by plague on Thu 19th Apr 2012 21:33 UTC in reply to "RE: Such a shame"
plague Member since:
2006-05-08

Sure, I'd like them to go that way too, but it would take alot more work, time and money than to go Android.
Plus they would have to build up an ecosystem from scratch. MeeGo was definitely on the right track, except for the name (Moblin was a far better name). But it's abandoned and doesn't have an ecosystem worth mentioning.
Android is the sane choice at the moment.
Besides, when I buy an Android phone, I don't just blindfolded pick any phone out of the bunch, I pick the phone I actually like. The hardware matters, and noone has made any handsets I like as much as the Nokia phones.
Samsungs phones are either too big, too plastic or both, plus I hate TouchWiz. HTCs phones are slightly better in that regard and the only choice I can tolerate right now (I have a Sensation), but they are still big and getting bigger. Nokias phones have a quality feeling to them, and especially the N9 is pretty much perfect in size and design.
The only things I don't really like with Android are the Ads that you have to unsubscribe to and the semi-closed nature of it (you're kinda stuck with TouchWiz/Sense and very long waits for upgrades).
I would like another alternative or for the Android vendors to actually push their drivers to the main tree, deliver vanilla Android on their handsets and cooperate for once.
But that won't happen and there simply aren't any other decent alternatives at the moment.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Such a shame
by Hozz on Thu 19th Apr 2012 22:24 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Such a shame"
Hozz Member since:
2007-03-19

Check out the NITdroid project if you haven't, it's a beautiful glimpse of what android would've been like on the N9. I'm quite impressed with the snappiness of ICS on the device given the single-core processor and the alpha state of the port. The screen on the N9 puts most other ICS capable devices to shame, and the device itself, IMO, is way above *any* android phone out there when it comes to build quality and especially design.

Then again, being alpha, it is mostly for testing purposes, as using a smartphone sans camera, with wonky wi-fi/3G connectivity and no voice calls(!) isn't quite viable for everyday use, but it's fun to toy around with and dual-boots alongside meego, so I'd say give it a go. If nothing else - because you can ;-)

edit:Just re-read your post, realizing you don't actually own an N9; my advice then would be to keep an eye on NITdroid and jump ship if/when they reach RC or actual release. Then again, that's probably so far in the future that newer, more advanced, and who knows, maybe even more desirable devices will have launched :-)

Edited 2012-04-19 22:30 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Such a shame
by plague on Thu 19th Apr 2012 22:44 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Such a shame"
plague Member since:
2006-05-08

Very very nice. That is exactly what I would want.

For my next phone, I'd like the N9 size and design but with a faster chip and vanilla Android. If only it could happen.
If the N9 had a dual-core chip, I would have probably chased around the world to get my hands on one, just so I could install ICS on it once a port had matured.

Edit: here's to hoping that in 6-12 months, there will be a phone of similar size and great design, with a fast chip, true RGB 720p AMOLED screen and vanilla Android. It could happen, right? right? hello? this thing on?

Edited 2012-04-19 22:50 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Such a shame
by misuc on Fri 20th Apr 2012 09:21 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Such a shame"
misuc Member since:
2012-04-20

for a pure android (i admit the phone is not by far as nicely designed as N9) you can go with Nexus / Nexus S phones. I own a Nexus S phone (single core 1 ghz, 512 ram) and with 4.0.4). It's fast, really fast, comfortable in hand (it however has that plastic feel to it) and android 4 without any other "thing" on top of it it's really easy and fast to navigate.

Reply Score: 1

RE[6]: Such a shame
by plague on Fri 20th Apr 2012 17:38 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Such a shame"
plague Member since:
2006-05-08

Yeah, I've wanted a Nexus phone ever since I "discovered" Sense.. However, although I do like the software on the Nexus phones, I'm not that impressed with the size or feel of the handset itself.
Nokia N9 Nexus = droool.. ;)

Reply Score: 1

Nokia
by Lorin on Fri 20th Apr 2012 02:53 UTC
Lorin
Member since:
2010-04-06

"Lumia smartphones are a central plank of its turnaround strategy"

Some strategy, a phone that will be obsolete in less than a year since Windows 8 will never run on it, you really made a poor choice for a partner in Microsoft.

Reply Score: 2