Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 11th Jun 2012 16:58 UTC
OSNews, Generic OSes So, I've been sitting on this one for a few days now, since I decided to let the sensationalist headlines pass by before I took a stab at it. Developer Christina B. has started - and released code for - an amazingly intriguing project: implementing Darwin/BSD on top of the Linux kernel. Just to make this absolutely clear: it's not her intention to allow iOS applications to run on this new, hybrid system. Let me reiterate: it's not her intention to allow iOS applications to run on this new, hybrid system. This, however, does not make this project any less interesting.
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Darwin kernel anyone?
by fithisux on Mon 11th Jun 2012 18:46 UTC
fithisux
Member since:
2006-01-22

Where is Puredarwin?

Reply Score: 2

lazar
Member since:
2008-12-10

now this is news for osnews

Reply Score: 6

What for?
by jessesmith on Mon 11th Jun 2012 20:19 UTC
jessesmith
Member since:
2010-03-11

The article mentions (repeated) what the project isn't designed to do, but I was curious as to what the goal of the project was. I mean, why create a software stack compatible with iPhone 1.0? The project page has this to say:

"This is a very weird project. You may ask, why am I doing this? The answer is: no f*cking idea ;) "

I think coding for coding's sake is awesome. That's great. But I guess I'm surprised someone went to all this trouble without a goal in mind.

Reply Score: 6

RE: What for?
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Tue 12th Jun 2012 01:50 UTC in reply to "What for?"
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

Ok, that's probably the worlds' best reason why to do anything. As such, I'll cut her some slack. I personally dislike darwin/bsd userland, but admire the kernel.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: What for?
by zima on Tue 12th Jun 2012 05:56 UTC in reply to "RE: What for?"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Kernel of this project or of darwin/bsd? ;p Assuming the latter - isn't it some weird mix of Mach and BSD, despite hybridization still with not too stellar performance? (or maybe this bit, that I recall, was just something about the archaic Mac file system)

Edited 2012-06-12 05:56 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: What for?
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Tue 12th Jun 2012 14:05 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: What for?"
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

I admire the FreeBSD kernel, always have. I never around to looking at the Darwin kernel. Linux isn't badly designed, IMHO, but it was the second one I really dug into.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: What for?
by lucas_maximus on Wed 13th Jun 2012 18:18 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: What for?"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18
RE: What for?
by SeeM on Wed 13th Jun 2012 11:52 UTC in reply to "What for?"
SeeM Member since:
2011-09-10

So what would you think about this guy: http://dabeaz.blogspot.com/2011/01/porting-py65-and-my-superboard-t... ? Emulator of 30 years old machine, "modem" for connecting sound card and Superboard, storing instances of Superboard (essentially MS Basic) on the net.

Sometimes people has useless ideas. But if they are porting several Python2 modules to Python3 in the process, let them have it. THEY ARE AWESOME. I'll bet that ios project will provide at least some patches for the Linux kernel.

Reply Score: 2

Confused. Help!!
by gan17 on Mon 11th Jun 2012 20:20 UTC
gan17
Member since:
2008-06-03

It's all a bit beyond my level of understanding. Doesn't Darwin already have a kernel (XNU/Mach + BSD bits & bobs)? So here we're having a kernel on top of another kernel? Or is it just a BSD userland on top of a Linux kernel? Or are we talking about multiple userlands here? O_o?

Can someone explain this to me, preferably in grandma-friendly lingo?

Reply Score: 2

RE: Confused. Help!!
by panzi on Mon 11th Jun 2012 20:27 UTC in reply to "Confused. Help!!"
panzi Member since:
2006-01-22

I thought Drawing is a kernel (based on March+BSD).

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Confused. Help!!
by gan17 on Mon 11th Jun 2012 20:34 UTC in reply to "RE: Confused. Help!!"
gan17 Member since:
2008-06-03

That's what I thought as well. I mean, that's what uname says I have on my Mac.

But then I wanted to make sure before I posted, so I checked: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_%28operating_system%29#...

...and Now I'm even more confuzed, obviously.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Confused. Help!!
by aliquis on Tue 12th Jun 2012 03:43 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Confused. Help!!"
aliquis Member since:
2005-07-23

Why are you confused?

Darwin is the OS with XNU as kernel.

OS X is Darwin + more.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Confused. Help!!
by Sodki on Mon 11th Jun 2012 23:22 UTC in reply to "Confused. Help!!"
Sodki Member since:
2005-11-10

It's all a bit beyond my level of understanding. Doesn't Darwin already have a kernel (XNU/Mach + BSD bits & bobs)? So here we're having a kernel on top of another kernel? Or is it just a BSD userland on top of a Linux kernel?


From my understanding, what she's doing is implementing some of Darwin's interfaces and capabilities on Linux. With that you have the kernel. The userland comes from Darwin/BSD.

I wonder if GNUstep's libraries can be used to fill some gaps...

Reply Score: 3

RE: Confused. Help!!
by Speaktrap on Wed 13th Jun 2012 20:26 UTC in reply to "Confused. Help!!"
Speaktrap Member since:
2012-06-13

I think It's more like Haiku, which is binary compatible with BeOS on top of NewOS kernel. It's not the same, though

Reply Score: 1

Comment by foregam
by foregam on Mon 11th Jun 2012 20:26 UTC
foregam
Member since:
2010-11-17

Binary compatible ≠ using the same binary format. You need ABI compliance too.

Reply Score: 1

Comment by Nicholas Blachford
by Nicholas Blachford on Mon 11th Jun 2012 20:36 UTC
Nicholas Blachford
Member since:
2005-07-06

Who needs BSD when you can have LSD!

Reply Score: 9

Almost the reverse of Debian/kFreeBSD
by obsidian on Mon 11th Jun 2012 22:29 UTC
obsidian
Member since:
2007-05-12

This seems to be like the reverse of Debian/kFreeBSD, which is the Debian userland on top of the FreeBSD kernel.

Reply Score: 3

Sodki Member since:
2005-11-10

This seems to be like the reverse of Debian/kFreeBSD, which is the Debian userland on top of the FreeBSD kernel.


This seems to be more than that. Debian/kFreeBSD is "just" Debian on top of kFreeBSD, without significant changes. For example, systemd cannot be used on Debian/kFreeBSD right now because kFreeBSD is missing some stuff that Linux has. A good analogy would be to port those things to kFreeBSD in order for systemd to work, for example. That's why Magenta (at least for me) looks much harder to accomplish.

Edited 2012-06-11 23:30 UTC

Reply Score: 2

Comment by Stephen!
by Stephen! on Mon 11th Jun 2012 23:41 UTC
Stephen!
Member since:
2007-11-24

It's not her intention to allow iOS applications to run, but could it anyway?

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by Stephen!
by aliquis on Tue 12th Jun 2012 03:44 UTC in reply to "Comment by Stephen!"
aliquis Member since:
2005-07-23

If you implement it all I guess so.

If you steal the parts needed maybe? =P

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by Stephen!
by Gullible Jones on Tue 12th Jun 2012 03:55 UTC in reply to "Comment by Stephen!"
Gullible Jones Member since:
2006-05-23

Hmm. I was going to say "absolutely not" but it looks like that may be intended. Not sure.

I like this idea though! IMO one of the real problems with the GNU/Linux userland is lack of cohesiveness on the command line - it's just a bunch of stuff thrown together, and not everything works with everything else. Mounting as user on the CLI is a mess, power management is a kludge, managing WPA connections is hugely inconvenient and unintuitive... Having a better integrated CLI environment, as with the BSDs (especially OpenBSD), would be a massive improvement.

OTOH, I have to ask, why not just make a Darwin/XNU distribution?

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by Stephen!
by darknexus on Tue 12th Jun 2012 10:02 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by Stephen!"
darknexus Member since:
2008-07-15

OTOH, I have to ask, why not just make a Darwin/XNU distribution?


My guess would be for hardware compatibility. Darwin's kernel is nice, but still has limited driver support. As far as I know, kexts designed for OS X (similar to loaded kernel modules on Linux but more powerful) can't be loaded on straight Darwin due to their integration with a lot of the OS X API stack. By using the Linux kernel, you'd get more hardware compatibility problems out of the way and free up time to concentrate specifically on the userland. Just my suspician.

Reply Score: 3

This just caught my attention
by aliquis on Wed 13th Jun 2012 15:01 UTC
aliquis
Member since:
2005-07-23

Green logotype

Word 'Magenta'

... ;)

Reply Score: 2

v Interesting but
by hackus on Thu 14th Jun 2012 00:37 UTC