Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 20th Jun 2012 18:38 UTC
Windows So, Windows Phone 7.5. I love it - warts and all. It has its issues, but it's so distinctive and fun it's pretty hard to not like it. So, for me, those three other people, and that cow, Microsoft today announced Windows Phone 8. It brings lots of cool new features, is built upon the Windows NT kernel and shares much of its lower levels with Windows 8, and oh, not a single current Windows Phone 7 device will be upgraded to it.
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gah
by kristoph on Wed 20th Jun 2012 18:55 UTC
kristoph
Member since:
2006-01-01

Although I - and my colleagues who actually handle UI/UX design of our products - are very fond of the Windows Metro design aesthetic I have to say I find the progressively more cluttered interface of Metro tiles really hard to use.

Say what you will about the 'toy' UI of Android and iOS but the colorful icons and obvious red badges really do make it easier to figure out what it is you need to look at / tap on.

( That said, I am pretty convinced that voice is the future of the interface. If only they had some basic API for it. I'd love to be able to just say 'Siri! Shazam!' and it would tell me what song was playing. )

Reply Score: 5

RE: gah
by dukes on Wed 20th Jun 2012 20:16 UTC in reply to "gah"
dukes Member since:
2005-07-06

Although I - and my colleagues who actually handle UI/UX design of our products - are very fond of the Windows Metro design aesthetic I have to say I find the progressively more cluttered interface of Metro tiles really hard to use.

Say what you will about the 'toy' UI of Android and iOS but the colorful icons and obvious red badges really do make it easier to figure out what it is you need to look at / tap on.

( That said, I am pretty convinced that voice is the future of the interface. If only they had some basic API for it. I'd love to be able to just say 'Siri! Shazam!' and it would tell me what song was playing. )


No more cluttered than the pages of icons on my iPhone within folders that I can never find quickly. I'm always doing a Spotlight search on certain apps.

On my Windows Phone there's context in the live tiles. Not sure how it feels any more cluttered than iOS. I actually think the tiles works brilliantly and I have absolutely no usability problems with progressively adding more tiles to the home page.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: gah
by MollyC on Wed 20th Jun 2012 21:37 UTC in reply to "RE: gah"
MollyC Member since:
2006-07-04

Not more cluttered than iOS, but it's more cluttered than WP7.5, IMO.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: gah
by jackeebleu on Thu 21st Jun 2012 01:37 UTC in reply to "RE: gah"
jackeebleu Member since:
2006-01-26

No more cluttered than the pages of icons on my iPhone within folders that I can never find quickly. I'm always doing a Spotlight search on certain apps.


Cause its Apples fault you downloaded 322 apps in 17 folders, yet all you ever use is Yelp. Damn you Apple! Damn you to Hell!!!!

Reply Score: 5

RE[3]: gah
by dukes on Thu 21st Jun 2012 02:01 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: gah"
dukes Member since:
2005-07-06

" No more cluttered than the pages of icons on my iPhone within folders that I can never find quickly. I'm always doing a Spotlight search on certain apps.


Cause its Apples fault you downloaded 322 apps in 17 folders, yet all you ever use is Yelp. Damn you Apple! Damn you to Hell!!!!
"

It's Apple's fault?

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: gah
by thavith_osn on Thu 21st Jun 2012 03:55 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: gah"
thavith_osn Member since:
2005-07-11

I think someone missed the <sarcasm> tag.

Personally, I like the look of iOS, but I love the front page thing that Android and WP7 have.

I guess notifications go so far, but not far enough.

It would be great to add this functionality...

Reply Score: 2

RE: gah
by frood on Sat 23rd Jun 2012 12:48 UTC in reply to "gah"
frood Member since:
2005-07-06

I use Launcher7 for Android which brings the WP7 interface to the platform in a very convincing way. With that and the other tools from sevenplusandroid.org I feel I've got the best of both worlds

Reply Score: 2

The Cow here...
by Morgan on Wed 20th Jun 2012 18:56 UTC
Morgan
Member since:
2005-06-29

I'm happy just to be getting that 7.8 update, I can definitely use more tiles.

All joking aside, I'll keep using my WP7 phone until the WP8 devices have been out a while. If Sprint actually puts one out and if it is up to par, I'll gladly pick one up come update month.

Reply Score: 6

Poor Nokia
by No it isnt on Wed 20th Jun 2012 19:07 UTC
No it isnt
Member since:
2005-11-14

Just days after they killed Meltemi, Microsoft killed their current line of Lumias, and ensured the low-end market they went for with the 610 has now been awarded to Google (as WP8 demands dual core CPUs).

Reply Score: 8

RE: Poor Nokia
by cdude on Thu 21st Jun 2012 09:07 UTC in reply to "Poor Nokia"
cdude Member since:
2008-09-21

Indeed. The timing, Surface and Windows Phone 7 upgrades impossible, right after Nokia killed its remaining alternate is ... funny.

Reply Score: 3

Microsoft to early adopters ... Haha
by dindin on Wed 20th Jun 2012 19:09 UTC
dindin
Member since:
2006-03-29

I cannot believe Nokia would do this to Lumia owners. Even Apple supported early iPhones for 2+ years. I hope they have some kind of an exchange/upgrade program. Pretty much most of the new apps coming out will be for WP8. I cannot run those on my Lumia.

Reply Score: 2

shmerl Member since:
2010-06-08

It wasn't Nokia's decision - it's MS's. Do you really trust them about anything?

Reply Score: 4

cdude Member since:
2008-09-21

Exactly. Nokia cannot decide or do anything. Microsoft does not really care and focus on the next generation. Nokia would spend the resources to upgrade Lumia to Apollo just to be able to still sell something till Apollo is there. But they cannot. Its not there software, they are just users and only can accept whatever Microsoft decides.

That is the price you have to pay if your core-business relies so much on the good-will of somebody else.

Edited 2012-06-21 09:12 UTC

Reply Score: 1

adkilla Member since:
2005-07-07

And Nokia continues to deny that they are MS' bitch.
They've killed their own platforms for this suicide.

Reply Score: 3

Carewolf Member since:
2005-09-08

Do what? Continue to support them with new OS versions eventhough the new top version has too high requirements??

Did you see Apple release a special low-end version of iOS that iPhone 3G could upgrade to? You know, instead of the iOS 4 which was too slow and crashy on that older device?

Edited 2012-06-21 11:23 UTC

Reply Score: 2

Adurbe Member since:
2005-07-06

Nokia wouldnt have signed up to Windows Phone without a full roadmap and requirements therein.

They Knew this was happening. You can bash MS for not updating every phone thus far (there is some merit to this) but I think it is wrong to paint Nokia as a company caught completely by surprise. (even Thom predicted this from the outset :-p)

Reply Score: 4

Users hardly screwed ...
by cookieninja on Wed 20th Jun 2012 19:16 UTC
cookieninja
Member since:
2005-11-11

High end phone users upgrade every 18-24 months on average, so I hardly think existing users are screwed, their phone will be Ok for much if their contract as app developers won't want to disregard the existing userbase until wp8 userbase is significantly larger.

If anyone's screwed, it's nokia because their new OS is now the "burning" platform lol! How will their remaining loyal customers react to a 3rd platform change (symbian, meego, wp7.5)? Will nokia's wp7 mobile sales tank like symbian's did?

It's increasingly clear that wp7 was launched before it was ready, just like windows 8 (based on views expressed by people who have tried ). Have a feeling it's a case of too little too late in their efforts to catch Apple, who seem like 1 step away from becoming a major force in TVs & Console domination as well!

Edited 2012-06-20 19:25 UTC

Reply Score: 2

ronaldst
Member since:
2005-06-29

That's what I am afraid of.

And this sucks.

It's not like there are hundreds of models of WPs on the market. At least give the Lumias a full upgrade.

-_-

Reply Score: 4

Comment by Kroc
by Kroc on Wed 20th Jun 2012 19:32 UTC
Kroc
Member since:
2005-11-10

/me imagines a comic strip of a cow sitting at a computer reading OSNews and saying "damn…" with a sign hanging over him reading "Abattoir".

Reply Score: 4

RE: Comment by Kroc
by Morgan on Wed 20th Jun 2012 23:36 UTC in reply to "Comment by Kroc"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

Hey now, I've already claimed the title of the WP7 Cow! I'd like my royalties now please. ;)

Reply Score: 2

overstated
by Ithamar on Wed 20th Jun 2012 19:36 UTC
Ithamar
Member since:
2006-03-20

All the noise about "another platform upgrade" is a little overstated... Almost none of the pre-2.3 Android phones were upgraded to something newer, and even a lot of the 2.3 phones will never see ICS....

What Microsoft is doing isn't that much different, only they are deciding for the OEMs instead of letting them decide. Maybe not nice, but definitely not something new...

Reply Score: 2

RE: overstated
by phoenix on Wed 20th Jun 2012 19:44 UTC in reply to "overstated"
phoenix Member since:
2005-07-11

All the noise about "another platform upgrade" is a little overstated... Almost none of the pre-2.3 Android phones were upgraded to something newer, and even a lot of the 2.3 phones will never see ICS....


Maybe not officially, but a lot of phones that shipped with Android 1.5 or 1.6 got custom ROMs with 2.1, 2.2, and even 2.3 (like my wife's LG Eve).

And you don't need new hardware to run a new version of Android. But you need new hardware in order to run the new version of WinPhone. Very big difference!

So, in the span of 3 years, mobile Windows users have been forced through three incompatible "upgrades": Windows CE/Mobile/PocketPC/whatever to Windows Phone 7 to Windows Phone 8. Each one requiring new hardware.

Reply Score: 4

RE: overstated
by No it isnt on Wed 20th Jun 2012 19:48 UTC in reply to "overstated"
No it isnt Member since:
2005-11-14

The main difference is that no software compiled for WP8 will run on WP7, whereas Android has pretty good forwards compatibility. There are a few exceptions, most notably Google Chrome being ICS only.

Reply Score: 2

RE: overstated
by WorknMan on Wed 20th Jun 2012 20:17 UTC in reply to "overstated"
WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

All the noise about "another platform upgrade" is a little overstated... Almost none of the pre-2.3 Android phones were upgraded to something newer, and even a lot of the 2.3 phones will never see ICS....


At least on Android, you have a decent shot of getting updates via custom roms. But still, the lack of updates sucks on Android, and it'll suck on Windows Phone too.

As for WP8, the feature that was most crucial (IMO) was porting over WinRT, so that you could run Metro apps on phone, tablet, and desktop. Apparently, that didn't happen this time around. *boo* *hiss* MS, WTF are you waiting for?

Reply Score: 3

RE: overstated
by Lorin on Thu 21st Jun 2012 00:03 UTC in reply to "overstated"
Lorin Member since:
2010-04-06

The major difference is that an Android phone can be easily rooted and the OS replaced with ease.

Reply Score: 1

RE: overstated
by dsmogor on Thu 21st Jun 2012 12:37 UTC in reply to "overstated"
dsmogor Member since:
2005-09-01

The problem is elevated by low WP7 market uptake.
Both developers and users are basically screwed.
The developers produced the 100k apps in good faith that MS (and IDC, techblogs, etc) mires will come true and WP7 jump to double digits is just around the corner.
Now they have no other choice than to start over and switch to WP8 (or the competition will beat them using native WP8 APIs) or they are left serving miniscule audience.
The WP7 users who bought into the ecosystem in good faith that the app situation will eventually catch up to IOS are screwed bc developers will abandon the platform in no time knowing it's dead in the water.
Nokia is screwed bc MS has osbourned them for the 2nd time after Elop did it 1.5 y ago.

Android fragmentation is not that critical as majority devices at least got bump to 2.1 and that's where most important apis (including GL) got introduced and native code was supported almost from the beginning.

Edited 2012-06-21 12:44 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: overstated
by tomcat on Sat 23rd Jun 2012 02:06 UTC in reply to "RE: overstated"
tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

The problem is elevated by low WP7 market uptake.
Both developers and users are basically screwed.
The developers produced the 100k apps in good faith that MS (and IDC, techblogs, etc) mires will come true and WP7 jump to double digits is just around the corner.
Now they have no other choice than to start over and switch to WP8 (or the competition will beat them using native WP8 APIs) or they are left serving miniscule audience.
The WP7 users who bought into the ecosystem in good faith that the app situation will eventually catch up to IOS are screwed bc developers will abandon the platform in no time knowing it's dead in the water.
Nokia is screwed bc MS has osbourned them for the 2nd time after Elop did it 1.5 y ago.

Android fragmentation is not that critical as majority devices at least got bump to 2.1 and that's where most important apis (including GL) got introduced and native code was supported almost from the beginning.


C'mon, admit it. You didn't bother to read the article. Because I don't see how you could have missed this glaring statement.

Despite this change, all 100,000 existing Windows Phone apps will continue to run on Windows Phone 8. "We architected Windows Phone 8 in a way to drive full application compatibility so that every existing application will continue to run," says Microsoft's Larry Lieberman. Developers will get access to new tools and an updated SDK later this summer that are based on Visual Studio 2012 — supporting apps for both Windows Phone and Windows Phone 8.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: overstated
by dsmogor on Sun 24th Jun 2012 16:24 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: overstated"
dsmogor Member since:
2005-09-01

I read it, but did you read my comment?
I explained that sticking to developing for restricted WP7 and maintaining backward compat. will put companies to competitive threat from competitors using better WP8 only apis. This means developing 2 versions , but contrary to say Android 2.1 WP7 has miniscule market share with no growth ahead and leaving little incentive for continued support. The updated SDKs for WP7 will probably end on added WP7.8 features, leaving WinRT and vastly improved animation framework for WP8. Compared to WP8, WP7 looks almost as a feature phone OS.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: overstated
by tomcat on Mon 25th Jun 2012 02:08 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: overstated"
tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

I read it, but did you read my comment?
I explained that sticking to developing for restricted WP7 and maintaining backward compat. will put companies to competitive threat from competitors using better WP8 only apis. This means developing 2 versions , but contrary to say Android 2.1 WP7 has miniscule market share with no growth ahead and leaving little incentive for continued support. The updated SDKs for WP7 will probably end on added WP7.8 features, leaving WinRT and vastly improved animation framework for WP8. Compared to WP8, WP7 looks almost as a feature phone OS.


This is no different than any other mobile OS; in fact, the fragmentation in Android is a lot worse, given the number of models and OS versions.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: overstated
by dsmogor on Mon 25th Jun 2012 13:33 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: overstated"
dsmogor Member since:
2005-09-01

It's not really comparable.
Android 2.1 and 4.0 differ mostly in number of Apis and the style guide.
WP7 and WP8 differ in programming paradigm. One that excludes maintaining common codebase with established platform with WP7. That's world of difference.

Reply Score: 2

Mixed feelings
by sukru on Wed 20th Jun 2012 19:37 UTC
sukru
Member since:
2006-11-19

I do not know how exactly to feel about this. On one hand, I still have my (free) HTC Titan, and it will receive one more (probably final) update. On the other hand, I'll be missing on Windows 8, especially the kernel.

My major concern is the app compatibility. If vendors mostly go C++ and DirectX, over C# and XNA, and ignore the current phones, I'll practically have a brick.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Mixed feelings
by vivainio on Wed 20th Jun 2012 19:40 UTC in reply to "Mixed feelings"
vivainio Member since:
2008-12-26

Only game devs will go over to directx; most apps will still be C# + XAML.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Mixed feelings
by sukru on Wed 20th Jun 2012 20:04 UTC in reply to "RE: Mixed feelings"
sukru Member since:
2006-11-19

Yes, this might be the more common scenario.

So now, you can develop in C++/DirectX and publish on Windows 7, Windows 8, Xbox 360, and WP8.

Or develop using C#/XNA and publish on Windows 7 (though no market), Xbox Indie Games, WP7, and WP8.

And for C++, you can probably port to OpenGL for PS3, Mac, iOS, and Android support as well.

So it makes more sense to code in C++ to target the maximum number of platforms.

Reply Score: 5

RE[3]: Mixed feelings
by ze_jerkface on Fri 22nd Jun 2012 12:58 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Mixed feelings"
ze_jerkface Member since:
2012-06-22


Or develop using C#/XNA and publish on Windows 7 (though no market), Xbox Indie Games, WP7, and WP8.


Heh? No market for Windows games?

With XNA you can make normal Xbox games and also target Windows from XP

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Mixed feelings
by zima on Sat 23rd Jun 2012 19:48 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Mixed feelings"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

As far as easy "maximum number of platforms" goes... it's probably still very much C#/XNA - not only on MS platforms, also iOS, Android, OSX, Linux, and soon PlayStation Suite.

http://monogame.codeplex.com/ - with existing examples in on non-MS platform appstores.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Mixed feelings
by ebasconp on Thu 21st Jun 2012 00:22 UTC in reply to "RE: Mixed feelings"
ebasconp Member since:
2006-05-09

Actually using C# and XAML is far more attractive for devs than using Objective-C.

Reply Score: 5

RE[3]: Mixed feelings
by Shane on Thu 21st Jun 2012 04:48 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Mixed feelings"
Shane Member since:
2005-07-06

I guess developers didn't get that memo huh? Objective-C's adoption rate is off the charts:

http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html

Language is only a small part of the equation. The frameworks are what enable developers to build useful stuff. And Cocoa Touch is a solid, well thought out framework with years and years of iterative improvements behind it. That class NSObject from which everything inherits in Cocoa Touch? It goes back to the NeXTSTEP days. Apple's strength lies in relentless rounds of incremental additions and polish, and Cocoa Touch has had a major head start by now.

This latest move is a tacit admission by Microsoft that Apple got it right first time by building the iPhone's OS on top of OS X. Microsoft has lost a lot of momentum with their inability to get their inner fiefdoms to all row in the same direction. This is the last reset they can afford. Microsoft have their work cut out for them. Better start grinding.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Mixed feelings
by Thom_Holwerda on Thu 21st Jun 2012 06:13 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Mixed feelings"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

I guess developers didn't get that memo huh? Objective-C's adoption rate is off the charts:


Yes, because popularity = quality.

Reply Score: 0

RE[5]: Mixed feelings
by Shane on Thu 21st Jun 2012 06:35 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Mixed feelings"
Shane Member since:
2005-07-06

Your point? ebasconp mentioned the word "attractive". How would you quantify "attractive"? If you have better stats to suggest, by all means, link us some.

After that maybe we could discuss the "quality" thing. Maybe you could tell us about your experiences with C# and Objective-C, and the merits of each. Then we could move on to the respective frameworks.

Or you could just keep firing clever one-liners.

Edited 2012-06-21 06:45 UTC

Reply Score: 4

RE[6]: Mixed feelings
by moondevil on Thu 21st Jun 2012 09:35 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Mixed feelings"
moondevil Member since:
2005-07-08

The point being that Objective-C current success is due to iOS,

Developers that want to target native development in iOS and keep their costs low have to resort to one of the native supported languages, C, C++ and Objective-C.

With Objective-C being a requirement if the application needs to use the UI.

So like in JavaScript's case, Objective-C's adoption follows iOS adoption. This is not representative of the language quality as such.

Edited 2012-06-21 09:36 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: Mixed feelings
by tomcat on Sat 23rd Jun 2012 02:08 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Mixed feelings"
tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

Objective-C is a horrible language, in my opinion. The only possible reason that Apple could have chosen it -- it couldn't be for productivity -- is to lock you into their platform. Nobody else on the freaking planet would be dumb enough to voluntarily use it.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Mixed feelings
by olafg on Fri 22nd Jun 2012 21:04 UTC in reply to "RE: Mixed feelings"
olafg Member since:
2010-05-27

Not necessarily true. C++ allows you to write crossplatform on iOS, Android and WinPhone8 with an abstraction layer over OpenGL/Direct-X.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Mixed feelings
by zima on Sat 23rd Jun 2012 19:49 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Mixed feelings"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06
RE[2]: Mixed feelings
by dsmogor on Sun 24th Jun 2012 16:52 UTC in reply to "RE: Mixed feelings"
dsmogor Member since:
2005-09-01

No trolling, just a question, haven't programming model for DX10/11 been radically changed? Doesn't it make commonalities potential between W8 and WP8 (which doesn't have GPUs beefy enough to support DX11 largely overstated?

Reply Score: 2

RE: Mixed feelings
by lordmorgul on Wed 20th Jun 2012 19:56 UTC in reply to "Mixed feelings"
lordmorgul Member since:
2008-07-07

I gotta start meeting new people. Where do you guys get all those free phones? :-Þ

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Mixed feelings
by sukru on Wed 20th Jun 2012 20:00 UTC in reply to "RE: Mixed feelings"
sukru Member since:
2006-11-19

It was from the "smoked by windows phone" campaign. They traded my old G2 for a Titan version. (Actually my G2 still had some trade in value, but not so much).

Microsoft seems to be desperate to get WP adoption. They also gave Lumia 800/900 free after rebate for new AT&T contracts.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Mixed feelings
by Morgan on Thu 21st Jun 2012 16:09 UTC in reply to "RE: Mixed feelings"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

Mine was via amazonwireless.com. They have most of the leading phones for $0.01 with a new contract. I was going to switch to Sprint anyway, and I was trying to decide between the HTC Evo Shift and the Arrive with WP7. I liked the Shift but had been hoping the Nexus S was on the penny program; sadly it wasn't. So, given the opportunity to try out a completely new phone OS on hardware that was almost a twin of the Shift, I went for the Arrive.

I'm glad I did too, WP7 really is a great phone OS, and I have high hopes for WP8 when it's released. I'm not normally a Microsoft person at all, but having a phone that "just works" the same way Windows 7 does on my PC is a wonderful thing. I still use Arch Linux for serious work on the PC, but Win7 is great for those few Windows-only tasks that must be done.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Mixed feelings
by tomcat on Sat 23rd Jun 2012 17:30 UTC in reply to "Mixed feelings"
tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

I do not know how exactly to feel about this. On one hand, I still have my (free) HTC Titan, and it will receive one more (probably final) update. On the other hand, I'll be missing on Windows 8, especially the kernel.

My major concern is the app compatibility. If vendors mostly go C++ and DirectX, over C# and XNA, and ignore the current phones, I'll practically have a brick.


Comments like these make me wonder how long you think you're going to own that phone. On average people own their phones from 2-3 years. Youre probably a year into that contract. It will take time for MS to release WP8 and then for devs to write new appp, so youre really not looking at a long wait.

Reply Score: 2

Comment by ssokolow
by ssokolow on Wed 20th Jun 2012 19:54 UTC
ssokolow
Member since:
2010-01-21

Nice. Maybe now the Mozilla guys will be able to write a mobile Firefox port for it.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by ssokolow
by DDevine on Thu 21st Jun 2012 04:17 UTC in reply to "Comment by ssokolow"
DDevine Member since:
2011-12-28

There is *nothing* to suggest that a port of 3rd party browsers is possible now.
The reason porting 3rd party browsers is currently impossible is because the API simply does not allow the access to the system needed to load up a different renderer (say, Webkit). It's purely because of API limitations and not anything else.

Reply Score: 2

Hee Hee
by fretinator on Wed 20th Jun 2012 20:17 UTC
fretinator
Member since:
2005-07-06

This is way, way worse than Apple and iOS 6 Starter Edition, iOS6 Home Edition, iOS6 Professional Edition, and iOS6 Ultimate.

That one made me and the cow laugh!

Reply Score: 3

Sell me a Lumia now, please
by Bishi on Wed 20th Jun 2012 20:36 UTC
Bishi
Member since:
2009-08-27

I have a Motorola phone stuck with Froyo. For me, a phone like a Nokia Lumia is a huge upgrade, even if it stays on WP 7.8. I'd buy it at a reasonable price.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Sell me a Lumia now, please
by saso on Fri 22nd Jun 2012 11:40 UTC in reply to "Sell me a Lumia now, please"
saso Member since:
2007-04-18

Have you looked at running a custom ROM? What Motorola model do you have? (Preferably one without the e-fuse crap.)

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Sell me a Lumia now, please
by Bishi on Fri 22nd Jun 2012 11:56 UTC in reply to "RE: Sell me a Lumia now, please"
Bishi Member since:
2009-08-27

I have a Defy. I didn't upgrade because I'm not really a smartphone user. I love the hardware, but I prefer a computer or a tablet for my needs.

If the Lumia allows me to call people, play music, take photos and videos, use my GTD system, and resist the occasional fall, it's more than enough for me.


The only true smartphone I'd buy in a heartbeat would be something like a Defy Nexus. Upgraded till the end of time, enough battery life to resist a weekend, and tougher than a metal brick.

Reply Score: 1

in the meantime in Germany...
by lordmorgul on Wed 20th Jun 2012 20:45 UTC
lordmorgul
Member since:
2008-07-07

T-Mobile DE won't be selling the Lumia 900 to avoid fucking the customers:
http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/20/3098768/lumia-900-t-mobile-german...
Nice move.

Reply Score: 2

Nope
by Nelson on Wed 20th Jun 2012 21:10 UTC
Nelson
Member since:
2005-11-29

No defense for this. It is utter bullshit.. Unbelievable.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Nope
by dsmogor on Thu 21st Jun 2012 12:48 UTC in reply to "Nope"
dsmogor Member since:
2005-09-01

Wondering what HW have put Lumia out of equation. RAM probably, as its CPU is quite OK.

Edited 2012-06-21 12:54 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Nope
by Nelson on Sat 23rd Jun 2012 22:10 UTC in reply to "RE: Nope"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

Likely, nothing. I'm very cynical about this.

Reply Score: 2

Nokia and differentiation
by jgfenix on Wed 20th Jun 2012 21:21 UTC
jgfenix
Member since:
2006-05-25

"Nokia Maps will now fuel the first party map experience in Windows Phone 8"

They chose WP and not Android to differentiate themselves (according to Elop) and now everybody will have their unique applications. How funny.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Nokia and differentiation
by MollyC on Wed 20th Jun 2012 21:40 UTC in reply to "Nokia and differentiation"
MollyC Member since:
2006-07-04

"Nokia Maps will now fuel the first party map experience in Windows Phone 8"

They chose WP and not Android to differentiate themselves (according to Elop) and now everybody will have their unique applications. How funny.


What's so funny? Microsoft paying Nokia to use their maps service is only a good thing for Nokia.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Nokia and differentiation
by jgfenix on Wed 20th Jun 2012 21:57 UTC in reply to "RE: Nokia and differentiation"
jgfenix Member since:
2006-05-25

They said they wanted to be different. It´s like Apple licensed Siri to others.

Reply Score: 0

RE[3]: Nokia and differentiation
by AnXa on Wed 20th Jun 2012 22:17 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Nokia and differentiation"
AnXa Member since:
2008-02-10

It's not a good thing for Nokia at all. Like the man said, it's exactly like Apple would license some of the special software services they offer to everybody for a fixed price. And besides, they did that in the past when they tried to licensed Mac OS to 3rd party manufactures and while doing so failed to sell their own hardware because of it.

Reply Score: 0

RE[4]: Nokia and differentiation
by tomcat on Sat 23rd Jun 2012 02:11 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Nokia and differentiation"
tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

It's not a good thing for Nokia at all. Like the man said, it's exactly like Apple would license some of the special software services they offer to everybody for a fixed price. And besides, they did that in the past when they tried to licensed Mac OS to 3rd party manufactures and while doing so failed to sell their own hardware because of it.


Um, yeah, it is. If you choose Windows Phone, it's very highly likely that you chose a Lumia device, anyway. And they get paid, regardless.

Reply Score: 2

The rest of the world unveils..
by reduz on Wed 20th Jun 2012 22:28 UTC
reduz
Member since:
2006-02-25

That they couldn't care less about Windows Phone at this point...
Windows phone is dead, just read the specifications of programming for Metro and it's very clear that it's designed for a wide range of screens not just tables. Current hardware in phones may not be enough to run it, but eventually next year or the other it will be...

Reply Score: 0

RE: The rest of the world unveils..
by Morgan on Thu 21st Jun 2012 16:12 UTC in reply to "The rest of the world unveils.."
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

Windows phone is dead, just read the specifications of programming for Metro and it's very clear that it's designed for a wide range of screens not just tables.


How does versatility equate to killing the platform? You're not making any sense. I would say it's a great thing that Metro scales so well, it means future phone hardware is more easily supported.

Reply Score: 2

tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

"Windows phone is dead, just read the specifications of programming for Metro and it's very clear that it's designed for a wide range of screens not just tables.


How does versatility equate to killing the platform? You're not making any sense. I would say it's a great thing that Metro scales so well, it means future phone hardware is more easily supported.
"

Fanboys are not rational.

Reply Score: 2

Comment by Drumhellar
by Drumhellar on Thu 21st Jun 2012 02:05 UTC
Drumhellar
Member since:
2005-07-12

As a Lumia owner I'm not really bothered by this.

The NT kernel wasn't ready to be put on a smartphone a at the time WP7 came out, and the CE kernel isn't capable. There had to be something out in the meantime.

All the apps I own will still work on my next phone, and my phone will continue to work after WP8 comes out.

yeah, It'd be nice if I had more than just one major update to look forward too, but a software change this large isn't likely to happen again in the new future, so I'm not actually too worried about it.

Reply Score: 8

RE: Comment by Drumhellar
by Priest on Thu 21st Jun 2012 03:35 UTC in reply to "Comment by Drumhellar"
Priest Member since:
2006-05-12

I mostly agree, things are moving really fast right now and it's probably not the best time to bog potential down with legacy compatibility issues.

Some of the features (NFC etc.) are tied to hardware that doesn't exist on those phones and others are getting rolled into windows 7.8 so the existing Windows 7 owners will get many of the updates their phones are able to support.

It allows future windows 8 developers to make certain assumptions with hardware capability without having windows 8 phones divided into legacy and pure experiences.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Comment by Drumhellar
by cdude on Thu 21st Jun 2012 09:36 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by Drumhellar"
cdude Member since:
2008-09-21

Its not NFC that makes the difference between WP7 and WP8. Nobody would really care if Lumia gets a WP8 upgrade that doesnt support NFC cause the device does not.

Its also not the smaller tiles that come with WP7.8 that make the difference between WP7 and WP8.

Its the market, the software that will only run on WP8 but not on WP7. Its all the software that is still missing and incomplete for WP7 that you cannot run on your 6 months old device. Its that once WP8 came out the small set of developers jump ship and leave WP7 behind what means no new software, no software upgrades any longer. Its IE10 which is there for WP8 but not for WP7. Its Office which is there for WP8 but not for WP7. And so on.

WP7 will be dead the moment WP8 comes out. Cause Lumia cannot be upgraded Lumia will be dead the moment WP8 comes out. That is in just some months. Lumia900 has a life-time of less then 6 months!

Edited 2012-06-21 09:36 UTC

Reply Score: 0

RE[3]: Comment by Drumhellar
by dsmogor on Thu 21st Jun 2012 12:50 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by Drumhellar"
dsmogor Member since:
2005-09-01

WP7 is now more obsolete than Symbian, how funny ;) .

Reply Score: 4

RE[4]: Comment by Drumhellar
by cdude on Fri 22nd Jun 2012 14:16 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by Drumhellar"
cdude Member since:
2008-09-21

Indeed true. All the applications that are written for Pureview and following devices run on my N8. My N8 just got its Belle update and continues to be supported as long as there is a Nokia whereas the Lumia 900 flagship is essential dead already.

I do not wonder Elop already admit that Q2, Q3 and Q4 will be even more worse then Q1 was.

Edited 2012-06-22 14:17 UTC

Reply Score: 0

Comment by kovacm
by kovacm on Thu 21st Jun 2012 08:29 UTC
kovacm
Member since:
2010-12-16

Apple and iOS 6 Starter Edition, iOS6 Home Edition, iOS6 Professional Edition, and iOS6 Ultimate

did I miss something?

Reply Score: 0

RE: Comment by kovacm
by Thom_Holwerda on Thu 21st Jun 2012 09:35 UTC in reply to "Comment by kovacm"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

"Apple and iOS 6 Starter Edition, iOS6 Home Edition, iOS6 Professional Edition, and iOS6 Ultimate

did I miss something?
"

Just like Microsoft does with Windows, Apple has created several different versions of iOS6, with key features removed from all of them except one. Unlike Microsoft, Apple tries to be sneaky about this by explaining it in the small letters.

So, since Apple refuses to properly name the different versions - something that would net Microsoft a whole lot of deserved criticism, but Apple is let off the hook for some reason - I decided to do so myself. I figured the monikers Starter, Home, Professional and Ultimate are pretty self-explanatory.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Comment by kovacm
by cdude on Thu 21st Jun 2012 09:42 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by kovacm"
cdude Member since:
2008-09-21

So, Apple makes it clear beforehand? What is the problem with that?

You do not compare that with the Lumia situation where it was not made clear (where the possibility was not even named) beforehand or do you?

Edited 2012-06-21 09:43 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Comment by kovacm
by Thom_Holwerda on Thu 21st Jun 2012 09:51 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by kovacm"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

I'm talking about Microsoft as in, with regular Windows.

The Windows Phone 8 thing is just pure shit, as I clearly stated in the article.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Comment by kovacm
by cdude on Fri 22nd Jun 2012 14:22 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by kovacm"
cdude Member since:
2008-09-21

Fair enough. But if we think a bit about the target-audience that really knows that there are different Windows flavors and that know what those differences are, then we may agree its more the geek then the joe user. Those geeks do not really read the manual (means whats printed in smaller letters at the box) anyways cause its not there main source of informations for such things. So I think it makes no difference how offensive Windows vs Apple are on that. Those who need to know will know independent of the prints on the box-version which are very less informative in both, Windows and Apple, cases anyways.

Edited 2012-06-22 14:23 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Comment by kovacm
by tomcat on Sat 23rd Jun 2012 17:44 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by kovacm"
tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

Seriously, who offers software upgrades for a major release like this? Neither Apple nor Google does. Are you one of those people who expects software vendors to backward support your device forever? I'd like to know -- it would help me understand where you're coming from, and make it easier to disregard anything you say from now on...

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by kovacm
by henderson101 on Thu 21st Jun 2012 12:06 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by kovacm"
henderson101 Member since:
2006-05-30

Just like Microsoft does with Windows, Apple has created several different versions of iOS6, with key features removed from all of them except one. Unlike Microsoft, Apple tries to be sneaky about this by explaining it in the small letters.


That's not really true though is it? If you buy a laptop with Windows 7 Starter, you can move to another SKU. That is not true with iOS. However, what *is* true with iOS is that you have a specific list of supported devices and the features iOS 6 supports on that device. This is more like having a PC with a PATA interface and trying to connect a SATA drive to it.

So, since Apple refuses to properly name the different versions


But, there is only one version for each device. You can be petty and claim that Apple picking and choosing features is wrong, but it doesn't change the fact that iOS 6 on a 3GS will have identical features to all other 3GS - same with the 4 and 4s. You don't have to agree or even like that (I know I don't), but inventing new OS names because you don't like it seems pretty childish to me.

something that would net Microsoft a whole lot of deserved criticism, but Apple is let off the hook for some reason...


Yeah, because the "versions" only exist in your head. i.e. there's no way to install Siri on a 3GS (legally or whatever), so the so called "Pro" version doesn't exist as a product. You just need to accept, this is the same thing that happens will all consumer electronics. I go to buy a new stereo, Sony make 5 different SKU's, one has a manual radio tuner and no remote, one has a remote and a digital tuner, one has a remote digital tuner and DAB radio tuner, one had a 5 CD changer, one has an iPod/USB dock and a digital radio tuner with DAB. This is no different at all. Are you bitching about all consumer electronics now?

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment by kovacm
by phoenix on Thu 21st Jun 2012 21:47 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by kovacm"
phoenix Member since:
2005-07-11

Except those 5 Sony devices have 5 separate SKUs, 5 separate model numbers, 5 separate names, 5 separate packages, etc. They are 5 separate things. They do not share a common name in any way.

"iOS 6" on the 3GS is not the same thing as "iOS 6" on the 4 is not the same thing as "iOS 6" on the 4s is not the same thing as "iOS 6" on the iPad ... yet they are all called the same thing!

That's the difference, which you seem to have missed.

With Windows 7, each version (which are different from each other) has a different name: Starter, Home Basic, Home Premium, Pro, Ultimate.

With iOS 6, each version (which are different from each other) has the same name: iOS 6.

So, you have a user with a 3GS upgraded to "iOS 6" talking to a user with a 4s upgraded to "iOS 6" being confused about what the 4s user is talking about, since the features aren't available on his device.

Edited 2012-06-21 21:49 UTC

Reply Score: 1

Off-topic as all hell
by earksiinni on Thu 21st Jun 2012 09:51 UTC
earksiinni
Member since:
2009-03-27

Last night I dreamed that I was browsing OSNews with the new upcoming site layout and you guys had this crazy dark rainbow-influenced design where the colors managed shifted as you moved your head back and forth (like a puddle of motor oil and dirty water on the ground). The comment system sucked and reminded me of Engadget except worse.

I am not making this up.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Off-topic as all hell
by adkilla on Thu 21st Jun 2012 10:07 UTC in reply to "Off-topic as all hell"
adkilla Member since:
2005-07-07

Was that before or after burning a joint?

Reply Score: 2

RE: Off-topic as all hell
by Thom_Holwerda on Thu 21st Jun 2012 10:23 UTC in reply to "Off-topic as all hell"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Don't worry.

No crazy shit in the next version of OSNews. The project's name wasn't "OSNews Simple" early on for nothing.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Off-topic as all hell
by zima on Sat 23rd Jun 2012 19:53 UTC in reply to "RE: Off-topic as all hell"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

That might sound scary... doesn't "simple" mean ~"twitter" nowadays?

Reply Score: 2

Comment by Luminair
by Luminair on Thu 21st Jun 2012 14:16 UTC
Luminair
Member since:
2007-03-30

I will remember fondly the "windows 8" time in history, the time when microsoft was announcing all their new products based on the Microsoft Squares design philosophy

Reply Score: 1

Lumias are almost free for many
by Alexandre on Thu 21st Jun 2012 14:42 UTC
Alexandre
Member since:
2008-10-30

Current Lumia phones are in many markets really cheap, even without upgrade they are still an "okeish" buy.
The problem for WP8 is that is trying to catch up other phone OSes and it's so faraway from release date.
Another problem is that people might feel like this is a new OS and that selling almost for nothing Lumia 900s, was just Nokia wasting money (let's wait for Q2 results) without bringing people to the platform.
Also Lumia sales will take a dive after these news.

Reply Score: 1

MS and Nokia
by tony on Thu 21st Jun 2012 14:46 UTC
tony
Member since:
2005-07-06

It seems very likely that Microsoft will buy Nokia, especially since they can't seem to get other hardware vendors to invest to in phones.

Or maybe they don't have to. Elop doesn't seem to have a back up plan, like moving to android or renewing their own OS development. So Nokia has to take whatever MS gives them, including this move with wm8 not running on any existing lumina. Elop should be pissed, but I guessing he's not.

Reply Score: 2

I need a new phone...
by Adurbe on Thu 21st Jun 2012 19:57 UTC
Adurbe
Member since:
2005-07-06

The annoying thin about this announcement is that over the last few weeks my phone has developed a screen fault of some kind.. Basically its about time to upgrade my phone. I want to stick with WP but I now KNOW I have to wait. I wont be the only one that puts off buying because of the announcement. I might be tempted if there is a firesale though!

Reply Score: 2

Think Clearly, Not Different
by tomcat on Sat 23rd Jun 2012 17:36 UTC
tomcat
Member since:
2006-01-06

This is no different than Apple offering its previous models as low-end phones. Those older models won't run the new OS, so anybody complaining about this strategy is either out of step with how the industry works or in denial.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Think Clearly, Not Different
by tony on Sun 24th Jun 2012 19:54 UTC in reply to "Think Clearly, Not Different"
tony Member since:
2005-07-06

This is no different than Apple offering its previous models as low-end phones. Those older models won't run the new OS, so anybody complaining about this strategy is either out of step with how the industry works or in denial.


it's actually a lot different. it would be no different if at wwdc apple said that iOS 6 would only run on the iPhone 5. but iOS 6 will run on phones all the way to 3GS I believe.

Microsoft made a bold/blundering move by saying not even te best wm phone you can buy today, te flagship phone (Lumia) will run their flagship OS.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Think Clearly, Not Different
by tomcat on Mon 25th Jun 2012 02:06 UTC in reply to "RE: Think Clearly, Not Different"
tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

"This is no different than Apple offering its previous models as low-end phones. Those older models won't run the new OS, so anybody complaining about this strategy is either out of step with how the industry works or in denial.


it's actually a lot different. it would be no different if at wwdc apple said that iOS 6 would only run on the iPhone 5. but iOS 6 will run on phones all the way to 3GS I believe.
"

No, you're wrong about that. The experience of iOS 6 on lower-end iPhone models is pretty much unusable/unstable, and Apple doesn't recommend or endorse it. Which is pretty much the same situation with WP8.

Reply Score: 2