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No more cluttered than the pages of icons on my iPhone within folders that I can never find quickly. I'm always doing a Spotlight search on certain apps.

On my Windows Phone there's context in the live tiles. Not sure how it feels any more cluttered than iOS. I actually think the tiles works brilliantly and I have absolutely no usability problems with progressively adding more tiles to the home page.

Not more cluttered than iOS, but it's more cluttered than WP7.5, IMO.

Cause its Apples fault you downloaded 322 apps in 17 folders, yet all you ever use is Yelp. Damn you Apple! Damn you to Hell!!!!

Cause its Apples fault you downloaded 322 apps in 17 folders, yet all you ever use is Yelp. Damn you Apple! Damn you to Hell!!!! "

It's Apple's fault?

I think someone missed the <sarcasm> tag.

Personally, I like the look of iOS, but I love the front page thing that Android and WP7 have.

I guess notifications go so far, but not far enough.

It would be great to add this functionality...

I use Launcher7 for Android which brings the WP7 interface to the platform in a very convincing way. With that and the other tools from sevenplusandroid.org I feel I've got the best of both worlds

Indeed. The timing, Surface and Windows Phone 7 upgrades impossible, right after Nokia killed its remaining alternate is ... funny.

It wasn't Nokia's decision - it's MS's. Do you really trust them about anything?

Exactly. Nokia cannot decide or do anything. Microsoft does not really care and focus on the next generation. Nokia would spend the resources to upgrade Lumia to Apollo just to be able to still sell something till Apollo is there. But they cannot. Its not there software, they are just users and only can accept whatever Microsoft decides.

That is the price you have to pay if your core-business relies so much on the good-will of somebody else.

Edited 2012-06-21 09:12 UTC

And Nokia continues to deny that they are MS' bitch.
They've killed their own platforms for this suicide.

Do what? Continue to support them with new OS versions eventhough the new top version has too high requirements??

Did you see Apple release a special low-end version of iOS that iPhone 3G could upgrade to? You know, instead of the iOS 4 which was too slow and crashy on that older device?

Edited 2012-06-21 11:23 UTC

Nokia wouldnt have signed up to Windows Phone without a full roadmap and requirements therein.

They Knew this was happening. You can bash MS for not updating every phone thus far (there is some merit to this) but I think it is wrong to paint Nokia as a company caught completely by surprise. (even Thom predicted this from the outset :-p)

Hey now, I've already claimed the title of the WP7 Cow! I'd like my royalties now please.

Maybe not officially, but a lot of phones that shipped with Android 1.5 or 1.6 got custom ROMs with 2.1, 2.2, and even 2.3 (like my wife's LG Eve).

And you don't need new hardware to run a new version of Android. But you need new hardware in order to run the new version of WinPhone. Very big difference!

So, in the span of 3 years, mobile Windows users have been forced through three incompatible "upgrades": Windows CE/Mobile/PocketPC/whatever to Windows Phone 7 to Windows Phone 8. Each one requiring new hardware.

The main difference is that no software compiled for WP8 will run on WP7, whereas Android has pretty good forwards compatibility. There are a few exceptions, most notably Google Chrome being ICS only.

At least on Android, you have a decent shot of getting updates via custom roms. But still, the lack of updates sucks on Android, and it'll suck on Windows Phone too.

As for WP8, the feature that was most crucial (IMO) was porting over WinRT, so that you could run Metro apps on phone, tablet, and desktop. Apparently, that didn't happen this time around. *boo* *hiss* MS, WTF are you waiting for?

The major difference is that an Android phone can be easily rooted and the OS replaced with ease.

The problem is elevated by low WP7 market uptake.
Both developers and users are basically screwed.
The developers produced the 100k apps in good faith that MS (and IDC, techblogs, etc) mires will come true and WP7 jump to double digits is just around the corner.
Now they have no other choice than to start over and switch to WP8 (or the competition will beat them using native WP8 APIs) or they are left serving miniscule audience.
The WP7 users who bought into the ecosystem in good faith that the app situation will eventually catch up to IOS are screwed bc developers will abandon the platform in no time knowing it's dead in the water.
Nokia is screwed bc MS has osbourned them for the 2nd time after Elop did it 1.5 y ago.

Android fragmentation is not that critical as majority devices at least got bump to 2.1 and that's where most important apis (including GL) got introduced and native code was supported almost from the beginning.

Edited 2012-06-21 12:44 UTC

C'mon, admit it. You didn't bother to read the article. Because I don't see how you could have missed this glaring statement.

I read it, but did you read my comment?
I explained that sticking to developing for restricted WP7 and maintaining backward compat. will put companies to competitive threat from competitors using better WP8 only apis. This means developing 2 versions , but contrary to say Android 2.1 WP7 has miniscule market share with no growth ahead and leaving little incentive for continued support. The updated SDKs for WP7 will probably end on added WP7.8 features, leaving WinRT and vastly improved animation framework for WP8. Compared to WP8, WP7 looks almost as a feature phone OS.

This is no different than any other mobile OS; in fact, the fragmentation in Android is a lot worse, given the number of models and OS versions.

It's not really comparable.
Android 2.1 and 4.0 differ mostly in number of Apis and the style guide.
WP7 and WP8 differ in programming paradigm. One that excludes maintaining common codebase with established platform with WP7. That's world of difference.

Only game devs will go over to directx; most apps will still be C# + XAML.

Yes, this might be the more common scenario.

So now, you can develop in C++/DirectX and publish on Windows 7, Windows 8, Xbox 360, and WP8.

Or develop using C#/XNA and publish on Windows 7 (though no market), Xbox Indie Games, WP7, and WP8.

And for C++, you can probably port to OpenGL for PS3, Mac, iOS, and Android support as well.

So it makes more sense to code in C++ to target the maximum number of platforms.

Heh? No market for Windows games?

With XNA you can make normal Xbox games and also target Windows from XP

As far as easy "maximum number of platforms" goes... it's probably still very much C#/XNA - not only on MS platforms, also iOS, Android, OSX, Linux, and soon PlayStation Suite.

http://monogame.codeplex.com/ - with existing examples in on non-MS platform appstores.

Actually using C# and XAML is far more attractive for devs than using Objective-C.

I guess developers didn't get that memo huh? Objective-C's adoption rate is off the charts:

http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html

Language is only a small part of the equation. The frameworks are what enable developers to build useful stuff. And Cocoa Touch is a solid, well thought out framework with years and years of iterative improvements behind it. That class NSObject from which everything inherits in Cocoa Touch? It goes back to the NeXTSTEP days. Apple's strength lies in relentless rounds of incremental additions and polish, and Cocoa Touch has had a major head start by now.

This latest move is a tacit admission by Microsoft that Apple got it right first time by building the iPhone's OS on top of OS X. Microsoft has lost a lot of momentum with their inability to get their inner fiefdoms to all row in the same direction. This is the last reset they can afford. Microsoft have their work cut out for them. Better start grinding.

Yes, because popularity = quality.

Your point? ebasconp mentioned the word "attractive". How would you quantify "attractive"? If you have better stats to suggest, by all means, link us some.

After that maybe we could discuss the "quality" thing. Maybe you could tell us about your experiences with C# and Objective-C, and the merits of each. Then we could move on to the respective frameworks.

Or you could just keep firing clever one-liners.

Edited 2012-06-21 06:45 UTC

The point being that Objective-C current success is due to iOS,

Developers that want to target native development in iOS and keep their costs low have to resort to one of the native supported languages, C, C++ and Objective-C.

With Objective-C being a requirement if the application needs to use the UI.

So like in JavaScript's case, Objective-C's adoption follows iOS adoption. This is not representative of the language quality as such.

Edited 2012-06-21 09:36 UTC

Objective-C is a horrible language, in my opinion. The only possible reason that Apple could have chosen it -- it couldn't be for productivity -- is to lock you into their platform. Nobody else on the freaking planet would be dumb enough to voluntarily use it.

Not necessarily true. C++ allows you to write crossplatform on iOS, Android and WinPhone8 with an abstraction layer over OpenGL/Direct-X.

C# also: http://monogame.codeplex.com/

No trolling, just a question, haven't programming model for DX10/11 been radically changed? Doesn't it make commonalities potential between W8 and WP8 (which doesn't have GPUs beefy enough to support DX11 largely overstated?

I gotta start meeting new people. Where do you guys get all those free phones? :-Þ

It was from the "smoked by windows phone" campaign. They traded my old G2 for a Titan version. (Actually my G2 still had some trade in value, but not so much).

Microsoft seems to be desperate to get WP adoption. They also gave Lumia 800/900 free after rebate for new AT&T contracts.

Mine was via amazonwireless.com. They have most of the leading phones for $0.01 with a new contract. I was going to switch to Sprint anyway, and I was trying to decide between the HTC Evo Shift and the Arrive with WP7. I liked the Shift but had been hoping the Nexus S was on the penny program; sadly it wasn't. So, given the opportunity to try out a completely new phone OS on hardware that was almost a twin of the Shift, I went for the Arrive.

I'm glad I did too, WP7 really is a great phone OS, and I have high hopes for WP8 when it's released. I'm not normally a Microsoft person at all, but having a phone that "just works" the same way Windows 7 does on my PC is a wonderful thing. I still use Arch Linux for serious work on the PC, but Win7 is great for those few Windows-only tasks that must be done.

Comments like these make me wonder how long you think you're going to own that phone. On average people own their phones from 2-3 years. Youre probably a year into that contract. It will take time for MS to release WP8 and then for devs to write new appp, so youre really not looking at a long wait.

There is *nothing* to suggest that a port of 3rd party browsers is possible now.
The reason porting 3rd party browsers is currently impossible is because the API simply does not allow the access to the system needed to load up a different renderer (say, Webkit). It's purely because of API limitations and not anything else.

Have you looked at running a custom ROM? What Motorola model do you have? (Preferably one without the e-fuse crap.)

I have a Defy. I didn't upgrade because I'm not really a smartphone user. I love the hardware, but I prefer a computer or a tablet for my needs.

If the Lumia allows me to call people, play music, take photos and videos, use my GTD system, and resist the occasional fall, it's more than enough for me.


The only true smartphone I'd buy in a heartbeat would be something like a Defy Nexus. Upgraded till the end of time, enough battery life to resist a weekend, and tougher than a metal brick.

Wondering what HW have put Lumia out of equation. RAM probably, as its CPU is quite OK.

Edited 2012-06-21 12:54 UTC

Likely, nothing. I'm very cynical about this.

What's so funny? Microsoft paying Nokia to use their maps service is only a good thing for Nokia.

They said they wanted to be different. It´s like Apple licensed Siri to others.

It's not a good thing for Nokia at all. Like the man said, it's exactly like Apple would license some of the special software services they offer to everybody for a fixed price. And besides, they did that in the past when they tried to licensed Mac OS to 3rd party manufactures and while doing so failed to sell their own hardware because of it.

Um, yeah, it is. If you choose Windows Phone, it's very highly likely that you chose a Lumia device, anyway. And they get paid, regardless.

How does versatility equate to killing the platform? You're not making any sense. I would say it's a great thing that Metro scales so well, it means future phone hardware is more easily supported.

How does versatility equate to killing the platform? You're not making any sense. I would say it's a great thing that Metro scales so well, it means future phone hardware is more easily supported. "

Fanboys are not rational.

I mostly agree, things are moving really fast right now and it's probably not the best time to bog potential down with legacy compatibility issues.

Some of the features (NFC etc.) are tied to hardware that doesn't exist on those phones and others are getting rolled into windows 7.8 so the existing Windows 7 owners will get many of the updates their phones are able to support.

It allows future windows 8 developers to make certain assumptions with hardware capability without having windows 8 phones divided into legacy and pure experiences.

Its not NFC that makes the difference between WP7 and WP8. Nobody would really care if Lumia gets a WP8 upgrade that doesnt support NFC cause the device does not.

Its also not the smaller tiles that come with WP7.8 that make the difference between WP7 and WP8.

Its the market, the software that will only run on WP8 but not on WP7. Its all the software that is still missing and incomplete for WP7 that you cannot run on your 6 months old device. Its that once WP8 came out the small set of developers jump ship and leave WP7 behind what means no new software, no software upgrades any longer. Its IE10 which is there for WP8 but not for WP7. Its Office which is there for WP8 but not for WP7. And so on.

WP7 will be dead the moment WP8 comes out. Cause Lumia cannot be upgraded Lumia will be dead the moment WP8 comes out. That is in just some months. Lumia900 has a life-time of less then 6 months!

Edited 2012-06-21 09:36 UTC

WP7 is now more obsolete than Symbian, how funny .

Indeed true. All the applications that are written for Pureview and following devices run on my N8. My N8 just got its Belle update and continues to be supported as long as there is a Nokia whereas the Lumia 900 flagship is essential dead already.

I do not wonder Elop already admit that Q2, Q3 and Q4 will be even more worse then Q1 was.

Edited 2012-06-22 14:17 UTC

did I miss something? "

Just like Microsoft does with Windows, Apple has created several different versions of iOS6, with key features removed from all of them except one. Unlike Microsoft, Apple tries to be sneaky about this by explaining it in the small letters.

So, since Apple refuses to properly name the different versions - something that would net Microsoft a whole lot of deserved criticism, but Apple is let off the hook for some reason - I decided to do so myself. I figured the monikers Starter, Home, Professional and Ultimate are pretty self-explanatory.

So, Apple makes it clear beforehand? What is the problem with that?

You do not compare that with the Lumia situation where it was not made clear (where the possibility was not even named) beforehand or do you?

Edited 2012-06-21 09:43 UTC

I'm talking about Microsoft as in, with regular Windows.

The Windows Phone 8 thing is just pure shit, as I clearly stated in the article.

Fair enough. But if we think a bit about the target-audience that really knows that there are different Windows flavors and that know what those differences are, then we may agree its more the geek then the joe user. Those geeks do not really read the manual (means whats printed in smaller letters at the box) anyways cause its not there main source of informations for such things. So I think it makes no difference how offensive Windows vs Apple are on that. Those who need to know will know independent of the prints on the box-version which are very less informative in both, Windows and Apple, cases anyways.

Edited 2012-06-22 14:23 UTC

Seriously, who offers software upgrades for a major release like this? Neither Apple nor Google does. Are you one of those people who expects software vendors to backward support your device forever? I'd like to know -- it would help me understand where you're coming from, and make it easier to disregard anything you say from now on...

That's not really true though is it? If you buy a laptop with Windows 7 Starter, you can move to another SKU. That is not true with iOS. However, what *is* true with iOS is that you have a specific list of supported devices and the features iOS 6 supports on that device. This is more like having a PC with a PATA interface and trying to connect a SATA drive to it.



But, there is only one version for each device. You can be petty and claim that Apple picking and choosing features is wrong, but it doesn't change the fact that iOS 6 on a 3GS will have identical features to all other 3GS - same with the 4 and 4s. You don't have to agree or even like that (I know I don't), but inventing new OS names because you don't like it seems pretty childish to me.



Yeah, because the "versions" only exist in your head. i.e. there's no way to install Siri on a 3GS (legally or whatever), so the so called "Pro" version doesn't exist as a product. You just need to accept, this is the same thing that happens will all consumer electronics. I go to buy a new stereo, Sony make 5 different SKU's, one has a manual radio tuner and no remote, one has a remote and a digital tuner, one has a remote digital tuner and DAB radio tuner, one had a 5 CD changer, one has an iPod/USB dock and a digital radio tuner with DAB. This is no different at all. Are you bitching about all consumer electronics now?

Except those 5 Sony devices have 5 separate SKUs, 5 separate model numbers, 5 separate names, 5 separate packages, etc. They are 5 separate things. They do not share a common name in any way.

"iOS 6" on the 3GS is not the same thing as "iOS 6" on the 4 is not the same thing as "iOS 6" on the 4s is not the same thing as "iOS 6" on the iPad ... yet they are all called the same thing!

That's the difference, which you seem to have missed.

With Windows 7, each version (which are different from each other) has a different name: Starter, Home Basic, Home Premium, Pro, Ultimate.

With iOS 6, each version (which are different from each other) has the same name: iOS 6.

So, you have a user with a 3GS upgraded to "iOS 6" talking to a user with a 4s upgraded to "iOS 6" being confused about what the 4s user is talking about, since the features aren't available on his device.

Edited 2012-06-21 21:49 UTC

Was that before or after burning a joint?

Don't worry.

No crazy shit in the next version of OSNews. The project's name wasn't "OSNews Simple" early on for nothing.

That might sound scary... doesn't "simple" mean ~"twitter" nowadays?

it's actually a lot different. it would be no different if at wwdc apple said that iOS 6 would only run on the iPhone 5. but iOS 6 will run on phones all the way to 3GS I believe.

Microsoft made a bold/blundering move by saying not even te best wm phone you can buy today, te flagship phone (Lumia) will run their flagship OS.

it's actually a lot different. it would be no different if at wwdc apple said that iOS 6 would only run on the iPhone 5. but iOS 6 will run on phones all the way to 3GS I believe. "

No, you're wrong about that. The experience of iOS 6 on lower-end iPhone models is pretty much unusable/unstable, and Apple doesn't recommend or endorse it. Which is pretty much the same situation with WP8.