Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 4th Jul 2012 12:59 UTC
Legal While our beloved readers from the United States celebrate their independence (have a good one, guys and girls), the European Parliament has just voted against ACTA with an absolutely overwhelming majority: 478 against ACTA, 39 in favour (and 165 abstentions). I'm raising a coffee to this one, kids.
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Hold the fireworks...
by B. Janssen on Wed 4th Jul 2012 13:10 UTC
B. Janssen
Member since:
2006-10-11

The responsible commissoner De Gucht already said 14 days ago that he would ignore any parliament decision and only accept the European Court decision. A rejection through the court will just initiate a new, ammended version. ACTA is not over yet. See De Guchts statement in front of the parliament: http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=SPEECH/12/4...

BTW, I submitted this 14 days ago.

Reply Score: 8

RE: Hold the fireworks...
by kwan_e on Wed 4th Jul 2012 13:19 UTC in reply to "Hold the fireworks..."
kwan_e Member since:
2007-02-18

The new ACTA would have the slogan:

"Democracy you MUST agree with!"

Reply Score: 9

RE[2]: Hold the fireworks...
by zima on Wed 4th Jul 2012 13:29 UTC in reply to "RE: Hold the fireworks..."
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Democracy is non-negotiable.

Reply Score: 6

RE[3]: Hold the fireworks...
by mistersoft on Wed 4th Jul 2012 15:15 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Hold the fireworks..."
mistersoft Member since:
2011-01-05

haha, funniest thing i read all year!

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Hold the fireworks...
by zima on Wed 4th Jul 2012 16:26 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Hold the fireworks..."
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Also: embrace democracy or you will be eradicated!

( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=298Cw3_qGwE though ~"democracy is truth, communism is death!" is missing)

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Hold the fireworks...
by pepa on Wed 4th Jul 2012 19:05 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Hold the fireworks..."
pepa Member since:
2005-07-08

Democracy: the ONLY option
Democracy: you have no choice
Democracy is mandatory

To have it work better, the definition needs to be tweaked. Eventually a better word will (hopefully) emerge...

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: Hold the fireworks...
by stabbyjones on Thu 5th Jul 2012 01:49 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Hold the fireworks..."
stabbyjones Member since:
2008-04-15

Democranism: Government of the party, by the party, against the people.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Hold the fireworks...
by pepa on Thu 5th Jul 2012 02:08 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Hold the fireworks..."
pepa Member since:
2005-07-08

Democranny? Democratism? Democrazy, Democracism, Democraship. Sounds scary...

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Hold the fireworks...
by Soulbender on Thu 5th Jul 2012 03:58 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Hold the fireworks..."
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Democorporatism.

Reply Score: 6

RE[6]: Hold the fireworks...
by kwan_e on Thu 5th Jul 2012 14:15 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Hold the fireworks..."
kwan_e Member since:
2007-02-18

Democorporatism.


I've been thinking for a while what we're really moving towards is back to feudalism. Corporations are the new nobility divinely ordained by the invisible hand to rule over their market because the peasantry obviously can't handle the economy.

Reply Score: 5

RE[7]: Hold the fireworks...
by zima on Thu 5th Jul 2012 15:36 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Hold the fireworks..."
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

[...] the peasantry obviously can't handle the economy

Well, this one is pretty much correct... (with "me, me, me!" drive to own more "stuff" and to have fun in the few short prime decades, the inability to see and support long-term issues)

Of course, corporations don't exactly improve on that (unless - shudder - planet-wide megacorp, so hopefully with organisational priority of sustainable self-preservation? O_o )

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Hold the fireworks...
by twitterfire on Thu 5th Jul 2012 22:07 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Hold the fireworks..."
twitterfire Member since:
2008-09-11

iDemocracy

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Hold the fireworks...
by Fennec_Fox on Wed 4th Jul 2012 18:46 UTC in reply to "RE: Hold the fireworks..."
Fennec_Fox Member since:
2006-10-30

Good one... in then still USSR during the Gorbachev times, around late 80's, there used to be a saying: "regarding the pluralism of views there cannot be any difference of opinion"...

Reply Score: 2

RE: Hold the fireworks...
by darknexus on Wed 4th Jul 2012 16:01 UTC in reply to "Hold the fireworks..."
darknexus Member since:
2008-07-15

The responsible commissoner De Gucht already said 14 days ago that he would ignore any parliament decision and only accept the European Court decision.


I don't get it. If the commissioner can ignore parliament's decision, what purpose does the parliament serve?

Reply Score: 7

RE[2]: Hold the fireworks...
by JLF65 on Wed 4th Jul 2012 17:06 UTC in reply to "RE: Hold the fireworks..."
JLF65 Member since:
2005-07-06

It's to fool the masses into thinking they have a say in the government, of course. ;)

Reply Score: 6

RE[2]: Hold the fireworks...
by B. Janssen on Wed 4th Jul 2012 17:29 UTC in reply to "RE: Hold the fireworks..."
B. Janssen Member since:
2006-10-11

I don't get it. If the commissioner can ignore parliament's decision, what purpose does the parliament serve?


I guess my short blurb was misleading. What De Gucht meant was that he will start a new attempt to get ACTA (modified or not) ratified after the European Court decided on the compatibility of ACTA with the EU body of law, whatever the parliament decides now. That's within the law and not very different from what is happening in normal national legislation. OK, normally failed laws are dropped or sneaked in as a hidden addendum to some other legislation. De Gucht chose to be more defiant or maybe ACTA is just too big to ride on the undercard.

To explain the EU setup post-Lisboa would be a little much at this point, but here is a very short version: the commission is roughly the executive branch while the parliament is the legislative branch. To create a law the commission must suggest it and the parliament must confirm it. De Gucht is one of 27 commissioners (1 commissioner per EU member). The commission is assembled by the 1st commisioner, currently Barroso, and confirmed by the parliament. One term is 4 years and the current term ends 2014. Once assembled, only the 1st commisioner can dismss another commissioner. So to get rid if De Gucht pester Barroso. You can contact him over his website: http://ec.europa.eu/commission_2010-2014/president/index_en.htm

Edited 2012-07-04 17:30 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Hold the fireworks...
by cyrilleberger on Thu 5th Jul 2012 06:29 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Hold the fireworks..."
cyrilleberger Member since:
2006-02-01

Once assembled, only the 1st commisioner can dismss another commissioner. So to get rid if De Gucht pester Barroso.

Yeah, sure, because Barroso the ultra-liberal, ultra-atlantist guy is going to rmemove De Gucht over ACTA ?

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Hold the fireworks...
by B. Janssen on Thu 5th Jul 2012 08:25 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Hold the fireworks..."
B. Janssen Member since:
2006-10-11

"Once assembled, only the 1st commisioner can dismss another commissioner. So to get rid if De Gucht pester Barroso.

Yeah, sure, because Barroso the ultra-liberal, ultra-atlantist guy is going to rmemove De Gucht over ACTA ?
"

I didn't say it would work, but that's one of two ways how you can get rid of a commissioner. The other is to fully replace the *whole* commission through a vote of no confidence by the parliament. Sounds more likely? Didn't think so.

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: Hold the fireworks...
by Soulbender on Thu 5th Jul 2012 09:11 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Hold the fireworks..."
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

What's an ultra-atlantist? Someone who wants to find Atantis?

Reply Score: 3

RE[5]: Hold the fireworks...
by zima on Thu 5th Jul 2012 15:40 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Hold the fireworks..."
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Maybe the other way, someone who wants to sink more large stuff?

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Hold the fireworks...
by cyrilleberger on Thu 5th Jul 2012 06:27 UTC in reply to "RE: Hold the fireworks..."
cyrilleberger Member since:
2006-02-01

I don't get it. If the commissioner can ignore parliament's decision, what purpose does the parliament serve?


He cannot ignore the decision, he still need a positive decision to enact it. However, he can indefinitely resubmit a directive for vote to the parliament. It usually never happen without a significant change to the directive. In this case, he consider that the parliament is misinformed, and that the parliament would change its opinion after the ruling from the European Court of Justice.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Hold the fireworks...
by HotMonkeyNuts on Fri 6th Jul 2012 08:13 UTC in reply to "RE: Hold the fireworks..."
HotMonkeyNuts Member since:
2012-07-06

Well that is how the EU Democracy works. The Commission is un elected by the people and on the payroll or big corporates. They decide what they want and even if the vote goes against them they either ignore it or demand another vote, and another, and another... Until they get the answer they want, as happened in Ireland.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Hold the fireworks...
by LB06 on Thu 5th Jul 2012 09:40 UTC in reply to "Hold the fireworks..."
LB06 Member since:
2005-07-06

You may have submitted that some time ago but it wasn't until yesterday that the EP has officially voted.

Also, the EC has indeed indicated they will indeed pursue ACTA further, but at the moment this entails bringing it before the European Court of Justice. All they can do it tell the EC whether or not ACTA is within the confines of the European legal framework. The ECJ is not a legislative body. It will still have to go through the EP, thanks to the Lisbon Treaty.

Please get your facts straight.

Reply Score: 3

Who are the 39 that voted in favor?
by HangLoose on Wed 4th Jul 2012 13:32 UTC
HangLoose
Member since:
2007-09-03

Would love to know if any of them is from my country so next election I can remind everyone what kind of dip sh*ts they really are.

Anyone with the list?

Reply Score: 5

Parry Hotter Member since:
2007-07-20

http://tinyurl.com/bnfmglz

Scroll down for the hall of shame.

Reply Score: 2

phoudoin Member since:
2006-06-09

A majority of them are french, 17 from the previous government's party.

While I'm not proud of that, I'm proud that half the shame goes on these ones...

Reply Score: 2

bitwelder Member since:
2010-04-27
talaf Member since:
2008-11-19

Wow half the yes votes were from France, I feel ashamed -_-

Reply Score: 1

cyrilleberger Member since:
2006-02-01

Wow half the yes votes were from France, I feel ashamed -_-

Don't be, they all come from the UMP (right-wing party). And considering who that party is sending to the EU parliament, it should not come as a surprise either.

Reply Score: 2

ACTA suffers crushing defeat
by smashIt on Wed 4th Jul 2012 13:50 UTC
smashIt
Member since:
2005-07-06

don't forget iPRED
same shit, different name

Reply Score: 3

cyrilleberger Member since:
2006-02-01

No iPRED is very different in many aspect. First of all, being a directive means it has been discussed in public, with debate in the parliament and within the society, ACTA was completely discussed behind closed door, and only made publicly available when all discussions where finished.
And also, iPRED can be changed by a new directive, while ACTA is set in hard-rock stone. Which is the point of ACTA. Quoting De Gucht This is because we do not have to modify any part of our internal legislation, the so-called acquis communautaire. What is legal today in the European Union, will remain legal tomorrow once ACTA is ratified. And what is illegal today will remain illegal tomorrow.. And that is the crucial point, ACTA does not change anything today, but it does prevent any kind of improvement to iPRED.

Reply Score: 3

Congrats!
by umccullough on Wed 4th Jul 2012 13:52 UTC
umccullough
Member since:
2006-01-26

As someone from the U.S. that was hoping ACTA would fail, I just want to say, thank you!

Reply Score: 6