Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 23rd Jul 2012 22:58 UTC
PDAs, Cellphones, Wireless "Nokia is set to market their first Windows Phone 8 hardware differently, according to a report by the Financial Times. The manufacturer will be entering into partnerships with a handful of EU carriers to exclusively launch their next generation Windows Phone. The newspaper states the company has already entered into talks with a number of operators including France Telecom." Not to be a spoilsport or anything, but doesn't carrier exclusivity kind of rely on people actually, you know, desperately wanting a certain device? It's like Nokia's executives live in this fairytale land where people are actually buying Lumias and plan their actions accordingly. It's uncanny.
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I think you missed the point...
by tomcat on Mon 23rd Jul 2012 23:31 UTC
tomcat
Member since:
2006-01-06

... the reason that carriers aren't actively trying to sell Windows Phone 7 is that there are bigger incentives to sell Android and iPhone. Give them a greater amount of scratch in the game, and that may change the dynamic.

Reply Score: 6

RE: I think you missed the point...
by Macrat on Tue 24th Jul 2012 03:19 UTC in reply to "I think you missed the point..."
Macrat Member since:
2006-03-27

... the reason that carriers aren't actively trying to sell Windows Phone 7 is that there are bigger incentives to sell Android and iPhone. Give them a greater amount of scratch in the game, and that may change the dynamic.


Microsoft was paying bounties directly to AT&T retail employes who sold Lumia 900 phones.

Apparently it wasn't enough incentive.

Reply Score: 6

Radio Member since:
2009-06-20

They don't have enough money anymore to bribe all telcoms. So their "exclusivity deals" is to focus money only on a few carriers.

I'd though that after decades of experience with Windows Mobile and after the lesson of the Kin fail, Microsoft would have learned how to do business in mobile, but it seems them are completely, utterly clueless. Or they poisoned their own well.

Reply Score: 2

zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Carriers are frustrated enough already that Apple strong-armed quite a bit of control away from them... they probably don't want to just hand it over 2nd time (especially considering Microsoft Skype)

Reply Score: 2

cdude Member since:
2008-09-21

Plus all the AT&T sales people got Lumia 900 for free. The bonus per sold device was higher then for Android. But the problem was, that you got that bonus only if the customer sticked with the phone. If her/him came back cause he was not satisfied with what sales sold there was no bonus. Lumia had and has the highest return rates in Nokia history.

So, yes, the bonus was to low for that device and they should have payed it even in the case of returns.

Edited 2012-07-25 05:29 UTC

Reply Score: 1

Comment by ronaldst
by ronaldst on Mon 23rd Jul 2012 23:40 UTC
ronaldst
Member since:
2005-06-29

It's like Nokia's executives live in this fairytale land


You can extend that to the rest of the WP team. They behave like everything's fine and dandy. They're a tad less dead than Lunix on the desktop.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Comment by ronaldst
by viton on Tue 24th Jul 2012 00:35 UTC in reply to "Comment by ronaldst"
viton Member since:
2005-08-09

They behave like everything's fine and dandy.

I wonder if WP team members still perform iPhone funeral ceremonies to boost the team spirit?
http://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-iphone-funeral-2010-9?op=1

Reply Score: 6

RE[2]: Comment by ronaldst
by Fergy on Wed 25th Jul 2012 21:23 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by ronaldst"
Fergy Member since:
2006-04-10

"They behave like everything's fine and dandy.

I wonder if WP team members still perform iPhone funeral ceremonies to boost the team spirit?
http://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-iphone-funeral-2010-9?op=1
"
Wow. Just when you think MS couldn't get any lamer.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by ronaldst
by ssokolow on Tue 24th Jul 2012 00:39 UTC in reply to "Comment by ronaldst"
ssokolow Member since:
2010-01-21

They're a tad less dead than Lunix on the desktop.


Was that a typo, an intentional joke, or were you not aware that "Lunix" is a Unix clone for the Commodore 64 and 128 and, by definition, is dead indeed on the modern desktop?

Reply Score: 11

v RE[2]: Comment by ronaldst
by lucas_maximus on Tue 24th Jul 2012 14:19 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by ronaldst"
RE[3]: Comment by ronaldst
by _txf_ on Tue 24th Jul 2012 19:01 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by ronaldst"
_txf_ Member since:
2008-03-17

As opposed to vocal Apple users?

I don't think that there are very many vocal MS users...

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Comment by ronaldst
by lucas_maximus on Wed 25th Jul 2012 08:01 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by ronaldst"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

Every tech conversation even if it isn't about Linux, gets turned into one of 3 things

1) Microsoft are evil.
2) Apple users are idiots.
3) Linux is the true way.
4) Open source is a magical solution for every problem.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Comment by ronaldst
by MOS6510 on Tue 24th Jul 2012 11:00 UTC in reply to "Comment by ronaldst"
MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

Running around naked in the streets screaming hysterically won't beam any feeling of confidence in to potential customers and share holders (both of them).

So it's better to pretend they're happy campers I guess.

But Nokia can make nice phones, hardware wise. It's the software that failed them when the iPhones and Android arrived.

I have a Nokia 1101 somewhere and it's one of my all time favorite phones.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Comment by ronaldst
by zima on Fri 27th Jul 2012 02:21 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by ronaldst"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

And for what they are, hardware-wise (quite meagre, I stumbled once on some technical details about it), 1100 and similar have great software.

PS. I decided to check out what the golden web reference standard says about those phones ...and they were sort of there, the details http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Nokia_1100 (from "I have some additional technical info") - not using external RAM is probably most ~charming.

Edited 2012-07-27 02:29 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment by ronaldst
by MOS6510 on Fri 27th Jul 2012 06:47 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by ronaldst"
MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

What I like about it that's is simple. This also makes it very quick to call people. When I used it I put my favorites under speed dial and rarely had to visit the address book. Checking out missed calls or calling back was easy. Hit one button and your taking to the list, scroll up/down, hit the call button. Much faster than on a smart phone.

The battery would last for days and days.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Comment by ronaldst
by zima on Mon 30th Jul 2012 23:14 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by ronaldst"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Now, a ~launcher more or less copying those old phones could be curious... just with touch scrolling, maybe also a bit winphone-like.

And somebody did a full-on review still in 2005: http://www.mobile-review.com/review/nokia-1101-en.shtml

I like to keep such phone (1208, not much difference really, vs 1100 that I once borrowed, just needlessly fancied-out UI and 4-dir scroll button) for ~trekking; or at least that's what I kept telling myself for some time.

Edited 2012-07-30 23:16 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by ronaldst
by Nth_Man on Tue 24th Jul 2012 13:47 UTC in reply to "Comment by ronaldst"
Nth_Man Member since:
2010-05-16

on the desktop.


And you're telling that precisely on Osnews
http://www.osnews.com/story/25485/OSNews_Browser_OS_Stats_2012

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Comment by ronaldst
by zima on Mon 30th Jul 2012 23:56 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by ronaldst"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

And you think OSNews stats mean much? Here, go through some actually representative ones: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems#Deskt...

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by ronaldst
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Tue 24th Jul 2012 13:57 UTC in reply to "Comment by ronaldst"
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

Depends on your definition of dead. I've used linux on the desktop since 1998 without any interruptions on the availability of updates or new applications. I have not had the same experience with windows mobile platforms. RIP, my lovely ipaq.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Comment by ronaldst
by lucas_maximus on Tue 24th Jul 2012 17:28 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by ronaldst"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

Linux as a desktop OS really needs someone who knows what they are doing ... aka fix it via the command line when things go wrong.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Comment by ronaldst
by plague on Tue 24th Jul 2012 17:45 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by ronaldst"
plague Member since:
2006-05-08

Not that argument again. It's been invalid a long time, especially since distributions like Ubuntu have made it very easy to use them. People just don't believe it because they haven't even tried.

But if you don't buy that then I have another for you:

Considering how little it takes before Joe User is completely helpless even on Windows or Mac OS, I'd say it's a toss-up in that regard.
The regular user cannot fix even the simplest of issues, regardless of the OS.

And I'm not just saying that, I help people with their computer "issues" for a living.

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: Comment by ronaldst
by lucas_maximus on Wed 25th Jul 2012 07:59 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by ronaldst"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

You haven't worked on support have you?

Try talking someone how to log into citrix, verses trying to flush the DNS ... guess which is easier!

Edited 2012-07-25 08:13 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[5]: Comment by ronaldst
by plague on Wed 25th Jul 2012 11:14 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by ronaldst"
plague Member since:
2006-05-08

Uh, you didn't read my post I take it?

Yes, I have worked in support, I still do.
I clearly stated "I help people with their computer "issues" for a living".

But I also said that it takes _very_ little for the average Joe to be completely helpless, regardless of the OS.
They need support for the simplest of problems.
So it doesn't matter if an OS uses the command-line for certain power-actions or a graphical UI, the regular user will need support way before that anyways.
That's why I'm saying it's a toss-up between all OS's. Regular desktop users simply don't understand computers, regardless of the OS.

Also, having to use the command-line in Linux for regular desktop use is no longer a valid argument and hasn't been for years.
Most desktop users will never have to touch the command-line, as the system is already set up and working for pretty much every task a _regular_ desktop user would expect (mail, internet, office, movies, music, pictures, etc). Ubuntu, for example, has ease-of-use as a top priority.
It's also _way_ easier to install applications on a desktop Linux system, such as Ubuntu, than for example Windows, due to the software center/app store.

I have to help people install an application in Windows, as they cannot even do that themselves.

Windows 8 will in some regard be better there, with their Metro app store, but regular desktop applications will still be the same headache for regular users and I absolutely _dread_ the launchdate for Windows 8, as I know what awaits us who have to do the support. Ironically the worst headache of Windows 8 will be Metro. People will not recognize it and they will want to get rid of it. For the guy (that would be me) who has to sell it to them and then give support on it, it'll be a small nightmare. Vista all over again.

Reply Score: 1

RE[6]: Comment by ronaldst
by lucas_maximus on Wed 25th Jul 2012 13:04 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by ronaldst"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

No I skimmed it.

So you are honestly telling me you think that telling people where to point and what buttons to press is as difficult as some Linux cli commands (you know lots of typing and they have to be quite precise)?

Edited 2012-07-25 13:05 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: Comment by ronaldst
by plague on Wed 25th Jul 2012 14:38 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Comment by ronaldst"
plague Member since:
2006-05-08

*sigh*

What I'm telling you is that:

1. Most regular desktop users will _never_ have to touch the cli.
2. Most regular desktop users have dificulty with _any_ problem or issue, no matter how simple and no matter which OS it's on.

How hard is that for you to understand?

Reply Score: 1

RE[6]: Comment by ronaldst
by zima on Mon 30th Jul 2012 23:47 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by ronaldst"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

I have worked in support, I still do.
I clearly stated "I help people with their computer "issues" for a living".

But I also said that it takes _very_ little for the average Joe to be completely helpless, regardless of the OS.
They need support for the simplest of problems.
So it doesn't matter if an OS uses the command-line for certain power-actions or a graphical UI, the regular user will need support way before that anyways.
That's why I'm saying it's a toss-up between all OS's. Regular desktop users simply don't understand computers, regardless of the OS.

Well, perhaps that background, working with "average Joes" who seek such support, makes you miss some other significant demographics...

But, believe it or not, there are tons of ~geeks who are very comfortable with Win, who can smotthly find their way around it, but find *nix approach quite irritating - and so they won't set up for others, won't ~service that *nix stuff. At my place, in the very recent times when hardly any home PC came with OS license, they were the ones mass-installing pirate copies of Windows XP, and not *nix (which in most cases would be sufficient, in machines used for browsing, IM, films, music ...and that's it). They might very well be an important factor for continuing dominance of Windows - it's not all "average Joes" vs "CLI magicians"

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment by ronaldst
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Tue 24th Jul 2012 18:56 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by ronaldst"
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

Well, that's neither here nor there in terms of its state of living, but I'll gladly take a system that requires a little knowledge and requires some learning along the way.

In fact, in one of the threads yesterday about cleartype, another poster was trying to convince me that windows on the desktop was dying, because windows 8 is for tablets or some silliness. Of course it isn't.

Reply Score: 2

Someone make it stop
by plague on Mon 23rd Jul 2012 23:47 UTC
plague
Member since:
2006-05-08

Dear Nokia.
Just rent a bulldozer, it'll be quicker.

This is just painful.

Reply Score: 4

My theory ...
by dsmogor on Tue 24th Jul 2012 06:21 UTC
dsmogor
Member since:
2005-09-01

... is that Elop is simply making preparations to wind down Nokia sales organization and cover the fact that carriers are in general dropping out the whole Lumia adventure. Few carrier deals need a lot less people to handle it.
NSN spin off is next on the list, along with closing down S40 operations. A few signatures and (say) 2,3 $bil later Elop can happily go back to his cosy Redmont cabinet as a Surface division ceo, well done general.

Reply Score: 3

RE: My theory ...
by cdude on Wed 25th Jul 2012 05:57 UTC in reply to "My theory ..."
cdude Member since:
2008-09-21

I doubt Microsoft or any other company would put Elop into a position where he could harm the company. My guess is that he becomes consulting. Hire him, ask for strategy decisions, do the opposite and accelerate grow :-)

Edited 2012-07-25 05:59 UTC

Reply Score: 1

We will see
by Gone fishing on Tue 24th Jul 2012 06:45 UTC
Gone fishing
Member since:
2006-02-22

We can't know yet - possibly Windows 8 and Metro will be a success. Then Nokia may have made the right choice and there phones will be flying off the shelves. I remember when Apple looked dead in the water, getting money from Microsoft and now look at them. I'd like to see another competitor to Apple.

Did I write the above? I'm very sceptical about Windows 8, looks horrid to me but then I don't like smart phones much.

Reply Score: 5

RE: We will see
by chithanh on Tue 24th Jul 2012 08:31 UTC in reply to "We will see"
chithanh Member since:
2006-06-18

Even if WP8 becomes a total success, then Nokia will have to compete against Samsung, HTC and ZTE who are not carrier exclusive.

This approach seems to be the only one left that they didn't try yet, short of selling Android phones.

Reply Score: 3

RE: We will see
by cdude on Wed 25th Jul 2012 05:43 UTC in reply to "We will see"
cdude Member since:
2008-09-21

Lumia cannot flighying off the shelves any longer cause they are not available in most shelves. If you decrease the number of shelves drastical then you decrease sales drastical, very simple math teached in junior high already. Even Apple changed there exclusive-strategy cause iPhone was, back then, selling far below expectations. Let alone that the conditions for Lumia are very different.

I think what Nokia is doing here is to sideline Lumia to make room for plan B, Android. Or does anybody believe Nokia just stops to offer smartphones on most sells channels? I cannot believe they would be so stupid. But then I was thinking the same about Elops previous steps and everytime it turned out, that there was no strategy behind.

RIP Nokia.

Edited 2012-07-25 05:46 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE: We will see
by Fergy on Wed 25th Jul 2012 21:38 UTC in reply to "We will see"
Fergy Member since:
2006-04-10

We can't know yet - possibly Windows 8 and Metro will be a success. Then Nokia may have made the right choice and there phones will be flying off the shelves.

Even if Windows 8 will be a huge success for Nokia they will still have wasted more than 5 years and billions of dollars. They could have gone for Maemo+symbian+android+windows. They were the first with a good webtablet. They already had an appstore. They could have just added phone support and kept developing maemo in 2005.
Instead they burnt all their own platforms and had to wait 2 years for winp7. And now they have to wait for winp8.

Reply Score: 1

This is the governement, duh
by spiderman on Tue 24th Jul 2012 06:59 UTC
spiderman
Member since:
2008-10-23

That is we have a government. Everything big is done by the government. It funds and coordinates big projects. There would be no computer, no nuclear power, no internet and no web without government. There is no private entity big enough to fund and coordinate such things.

Reply Score: 2

RE: This is the governement, duh
by bnolsen on Tue 24th Jul 2012 15:22 UTC in reply to "This is the governement, duh"
bnolsen Member since:
2006-01-06

uhh...no. We have government to provide a tranquil environment for its citizens. Government excels at graft and corruption. Unelected unaccountable appointees are driven by nothing other than their desire to steal public funds for themselves and their buddies with no competition and no recourse for those whose resources are being stolen.

Companies going under happens easier when competition is allowed and small companies are allowed to push out dinosaur companies.

Reply Score: 0

RE: This is the governement, duh
by cdude on Wed 25th Jul 2012 05:54 UTC in reply to "This is the governement, duh"
cdude Member since:
2008-09-21

Finland's government already denied to help Nokia:
http://www.wired.com/business/2012/06/finnish-government-hangs-up-o...

Or do you mean another government controls Elop to bring Nokia down? Not impossible.

Reply Score: 1