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Hardware manufacturers suck at software interface design, with the possible exception of Apple. None of the custom OEM ROMs provide a single damn thing over stock Android, except for that one Chinese phone that comes with MIUI preinstalled.

I don't agree. Both Samsung and HTC have added some goodies that made early Androids less lacking in the feature front, not to mention the fact that a lot of their ideas were later put on stock Android (using sick US law logic they should sue Google now).
Sony corner icon approach on the other hand actually makes a lot of sense on their mini devices.
A number of changes are simply required to support additional hardware.
E.g Galaxy Note has narrow touch mode to make it bearable for one handed use. I also hail Samsung decision to leave HW buttons at the bottom as Google decision to put back action at top left corner is brain-dead given the trend to expand screen size.


Not that they always hit the spot frequently shipping downright buggy code, but as time passes they are getting better. GS3 is for one an impressive device even on stock skin.

You do know that there is a back button at the bottom, right?

Is it visible in full screen apps?
Nevertheless it doesn't validate decision to put any meaningful iteration spot on top left corner.

That's the Up navigational control you are talking about. You can check this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwGHJJYBs0Q video to better understand Google decision to but it there and the difference between Back and Up navigation.

Yes it is. It can be turned "off" and can be temporarily hidden. (Temporarily - only when there is no user interaction with the screen)

Getting the Android OEM community to use a generic version of Android may be quite difficult. They are obviously looking for ways to differentiate their products and the limitations of the smart phone form factor and build components do not make easy to make something distinctive.

That's why customisation of Android is so popular, both the OEMs and the carriers love to load up their handsets with apps and customisations, the problems is that neither the OEMs or the carriers have shown much ability in terms of software development so their efforts tend to be poor and tend to degrade user experience and satisfaction. Their lack of software development ability will be made worse now that they will be all trying not to appear to copy Apple and will thus be more inclined to try ill considered experiments.

The problem for the Android OEM community as a whole is that it is financially so precarious and the only OEM that has made a business success of Android has now been found guilty of copying Apple, a strategy which appears to have paid of as it has allowed Samsung to create a high brand profile and to make high profits, now however they face the difficult task of retaining that brand profile whilst coming out with designs that cannot be confused with Apple's.

I buy Samsung for the hardware. I root them to get back to stock.

Just like in the PC world: Buying a Dell laptop and installing a clean version of Windows.

Watching evolution of Galaxy devices one sees Samsung have been preparing for this for some time.
Their Touchwiz consequently change with each generation and (I believe) GS3 devices can't be reasonably accused of infringing Apple brand face (in terms of both device outline and software).
But that's not the biggest problem. That is Apple managed to validate the concept of owning absolutely fundamental multitouch interaction patterns (compare it to owning mouse click). That should never happen, but now that happened, producing modern CE devices for US market will be virtually impossible w/o Apple approval.

The Android infringement argument (I would say FUD campaign) is repeated adnaseum by countless tech bloggers but none of them has pointed to a single feature that is actually Android specific in all of this.

The fact that Apple and MS play in concert to destroy Android using litigation doesn't mean other os is inherently more safe from their questionable tactics.
In particular Apple and MS tactical alliance (edit) doesn't guarantee that in the future e.g. Apple programmers won't be sued by MS or WP oems by Apple.
Their cross licensing deals (who they actually cover?) have a limited time span.

Edited 2012-08-28 12:30 UTC

Um, MS obviously isn't trying to destroy Android. They simply wanted and got reasonable patent royalties for infringements. None of the companies involved has ever asserted that MS prevents them from conducting their businesses by banning devices, etc. Whereas, Apple most definitely wants to destroy Android and prevent them from being distributed.

1. how much money has MS spend to 'invent' these software patents and idea patents?
2. could a six year old child come up with these 'inventions'?
3. how much work is it to think of it and how much work is it to write it?

Irrelevant.



No



Give it a try some time and let me know. I have.

Um, MS obviously isn't trying to destroy Android. They simply wanted and got reasonable patent royalties for infringements. None of the companies involved has ever asserted that MS prevents them from conducting their businesses by banning devices, etc. Whereas, Apple most definitely wants to destroy Android and prevent them from being distributed.

In your usual bubble, you focus on old ~western-visible brands (which mostly, like with PCs before, will falter to the benefit of newcomers; this time even more rapidly, it seems) ...but ZTE does quite fine, is possibly the 3rd largest mobile maker by now. Oh and ZTE, together with Huawei, use quite standard Android on their (popular via carriers) handsets.

If anything, Apple nowadays are more of a software company which happens to build some hardware, like Microsoft, than a hardware company trying to get into software, like PC OEMs.

As far as I can tell, the last time they introduced a significant innovation in the realm of hardware design, rather than "stealing" or buying it, was with the iPod click wheel and the iMac G4 in the early 2000s. Nowadays, it seems to me that all they do in this realm is picking standard components on the market, sometimes buying a shiny extra from a smaller company that does actual hardware R&D, and then putting a pretty shell around the bunch.

On the few occasions where they still design something, like with their SoCs or the aforementioned casing, they do so in a very conservative way, with little bold moves (think Eee pad transformer, Galaxy Note, Xperia X10 Mini and Sola for examples of "risky" hardware design). And even then, they still manage to make beginner mistakes sometimes, like with the iPhone 4's unprotected glass panes and failing antennas.

No, really, if I were to find a good example of companies that are skilled at both hardware and software design, I would rather take a look at some of IBM's business offering (think AS/400, nowadays ironically called "i Series" if I'm not misunderstood). Sure, these are not designed to appeal to the general public, but for what they do, they provide an interesting example of a blend of clever software and hardware design, with lots of integration between both.

Edited 2012-08-28 08:31 UTC

> example of companies that are skilled at both hardware and software design

Sun, SGI, Bee, Palm, unfortunately ,they all have something in common.

I'm not sure if ~"let's make it as expensive as we can get away with" is a sign of skill in hardware design... (and Palm software was somewhat horrible ...at the same time very usable - it's fascinating that way, how they were able to be both - but still, also horrible)

I do love my G4 iMac. Who knows, maybe in the far off magical future of R2, I'll be able to use Haiku on it.

Hm, and if we were to accept the rules of contemporary patent system (well, Apple does seem to subscribe to those rules...), iPod click wheel might be not a very clear-cut example (the middle section)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPod#Patent_disputes

(plus, I suppose it might be seen as a natural evolution of "selection dials" placed on steering column, that some car radios had in the late 90s?)

No, Google does not have as such strict requirements when it comes to hardware. If you want to create a wrist watch phone with 200x 200 px display, go ahead. If you want a 7inch phone, with a 640x 480 display, be their guests. Or a tablet with a keyboard on the back of the display. Or maybe no always connected display at all.

MS would prohibits all of those, Google would prohibit none and let the market place decide which are terrible.

W/o any software customization those extreme form factors would be useless. Only opennes of Android makes going to market with such variability at least justifiable. With stock Android a lot of designs would be useless.

What do you mean by that? A keyboard on the back side of a tablet would still work with android. Same with the watch with 200x200 px. They could all use stock, I think.

If you were saying that they would require software changes to be good, then well that's a matter of opinion. I don't think any of them would ever be good. But, they are all permitted by Google and not by Microsoft. Which was the point of my comment: to show extreme examples of diverse devices that would be permitted by google and not by microsoft to make clear the point that google's a more permissive mobile operating system provider even if ui software changes were not permitted.

Innovation can only happen when an OEM slaps an iOS-like skin on Android? I'm glad Google is sticking it to Samsung.

How was Apple's lawsuit meant to "spur UI innovation"? I'm 99% sure it was meant to extinguish it. Unless you think Apple are the only one's capable of UI innovation.

That was irony, but reading mainstream press, this view seems to be dominating.

Yeah, sorry, sadly I thought you were being serious.

There really are naive people out there who have pretty much said that this lawsuit is a great wine for innovation, which just makes me want to vomit.

read between the lines, because Google is very good at diplomacy.

Edited 2012-08-27 13:34 UTC

I'm not saying there's no implied meaning. I'm saying the implied meaning is not bitter.

The statement doesn't even acknowledge there was actually a jury decision by a District Court.

It jumps straight to: "the court of appeals will review both infringement and the validity of the patent claims." What patent claims? Was there a court case you are responding to? What was the verdict?

To say there is no bitterness in the statement is silly.

If that's your criteria of what is bitter, then I guess it's bitter.

In my book, that's not bitterness. That's "not saying anything that could get them in trouble in court at a later date".

To say there is bitterness in the statement is projection.

As far as I know, almost all of non top 4 Android manufs (that is Sammy, HTC, LG and SONY ) leave Google experience in tack on their devices. There's ~ 60 of them, an abundant choice. Still almost nobody buys them.

Edited 2012-08-27 13:26 UTC

The reason no-one want to buy them, is that they are total low-end crap.
(HTC and Sony do not have a single vanilla Android device in production at the moment)

Do you really believe that among thousands of these devices you won't be able to find a single one that has reasonable quality? Of simply you didn't search hard enough. E.g. all of big Chinese consumer electronics producers have impressive Android flagships.
There's a reason they are not easy to find: carriers simply don't want non-differentiated Android.

I think its more than that. Just as the carriers are afraid of being turned into dumb pipes, Manufacturers are afraid of being turned into hardware companies only. They don't think that most consumers are savy enough to just look at a spec sheet. They want to provide some visual differentiator, a description next to the device that says "Social aware" or some such.

Edit:

I should add, I know a regional TMobile Store Manager here in the US. He's convinced that most people *like* touch wiz, sense, blur, ect. He was kind of shocked and defensive when I suggested that they hurt the user experience.

Edited 2012-08-27 19:40 UTC

I wouldn't be surprised if ZTE is at least 3rd by now ...with Huawei also quite high. Oh, and people do buy them - not the most "glamorous" & spotlight-capturing (in the "west" at least) phones, but quite popular nonetheless (at least with carriers; but that makes people buy them).

Edited 2012-09-03 17:05 UTC

Last week I would have called this bs.
Now that the pandora box is opened wide open, I think buying of large amount of smartphones from the market with intention for later resale started to look like a business model.

Edited 2012-08-27 14:16 UTC

But with the Motorola acquisition, I would bet Google has some stupid patents and prior art too.

I just hope they sue each other until all those stupid interaction patents, each with tons of priori art, get invalidated.

No, actually stock Android IS safe, because Google implies it will make it so.

When they get everyone to move and stick with stock Android, they'll do the same thing they did with Chrome, and add features favouring Google.

The features you stated are software, and if a hardware manufacturer sticks to hardware, and leaves the software to Google, then they would be safe from Microsoft and Apple. All they'd have to worry about after that would be rounded corners.

Right now, through this statement, Google is telling people, there are two sides, one, side with Google, or two, by yourself. Since each hardware manufacturer uses their own version of Android, they'll probably have to make the choice soon. Until Apple actually attacks Google, they're free game.

That's pretty much how I see Google doing things, and I think I'm right because it mostly fits into their pattern.

Even if I'm wrong or not, I'm very very curious how things turn out, if anything, Google's leadership, not just the top levels, are quite brilliant. Waay above Apple's or Microsoft's or any others company in the field. So, yeah, this is worth watching.

Google has never indemnified anyone and their statement has no evidence that they will begin doing so. ANdroid is very vulnerable to Apple's patents and Apple doesn't license patents as a general policy, preferring to ban the infringing products altogether. And Android is also vulnerable to Microsoft's patents, but nearly every Android device maker has already reached agreement with Microsoft to license those patents.

P.S.
Google's "brilliant" leadership was baited by Apple and Microsoft into buying the failing Motorola for 12 billion dollars for a bunch of FRAND patents. The notion that Google has the most brilliant leadership is Google PR working.

funny. They're now countersuing Apple using non-FRAND Motorola patents. On top of that, the jury here threw out Apple's FRAND defence - however, the amateurish nature and fishy smell of this jury applies there, too, of course.

Which jury in which country in which case against which defendent through out Apple's FRAND defense?

Are you talking about Samsung and this recently decided case? And?

The jury determined that Apple did not prove an antitrust case in relation to patents they determined they didn't violate anyway and which were exhausted anyway.

What was your point as to how this relates to Google/Motorola?

Edited 2012-08-27 16:45 UTC

Now the jury is corrupt ... Whatever will you claim next?

They won't be for very much longer when this plays out. That's what makes it funny.


The rather desperate view is that they baited Google into buying Motorola because Microsoft and Apple failed in buying it. The reality is anything but.

Why would Android OEMs stop paying Microsoft licensing because Google's subsidiary Motorola is suing Apple and may or may not get an affirmative decision 2 or 3 years from now? What is your definition of "very much longer"?

"P.S.
Google's "brilliant" leadership was baited by Apple and Microsoft into buying the failing Motorola for 12 billion dollars for a bunch of FRAND patents. The notion that Google has the most brilliant leadership is Google PR working."

Personally, I smell desperation. Google is facing an arrogant company filing suits against them (Apple) and US courts rubber stamping all the patents Apple asserts like pinch-and-zoom (prior art exists), voice search (prior art) and rounded corners (dumb).

I don't scream "government conspiracy" often, and have never done before on the internet (no, srsly), but this one smells a lot: Apple's UI patents (and rounded corners) getting validated by the court while Motorola's and Samsung's geting thrown out, jurys (read: ignorant about the subject citizens) that are told to decide about technical patents, flash jury decisions, bagging claims of design copycating and softpatent infrigment in one trial. It's as if the US government has found a golden tax goose over at Cupertino, and they want to "protect" it, but not by doing something that attracts public ire like imposing a "chicken tax" for imported cellphones.

Edited 2012-08-27 21:47 UTC

There was much more to Motorola buyout. For one, Moto forced Google hand, a bit, at least WRT the price... (in the week or two leading to buyout announcement, when the deal was set, Moto CEO hinted that 1) Motorola might go with their patents after other Android makers 2) Moto might adopt also WinPhone)

Wow if you put them in an easy to read list it really makes me sad. The people that think that these handy ideas are worth millions should be shot.

In such scenario, Nexus most likely simply wouldn't exist...

Not slowing in China except for Apple, the lines and crowds are always around Samsung products and a few at HTC

You obviously didn't read the article. It says the smartphone market is saturated in Australia (and - by extension - most affluent countries). The overwhelming growth is in low cost (sub $100) smartphones in developing countries.

This is very bad news for Apple over the next 3-5 years. Hence the very aggressive lawsuits.

I believe Apple adoption in China is artificially throttled by govt. managed carriers who don't want to be held hostage to it and let oversees uncontrolled technology gain foothold on the market. The Chinese know well how to play internal demand for their own good.
Of course that fact doesn't make it any less legitimate reason for their slowdown.

Edited 2012-08-28 12:09 UTC

Everyone should abandon USA, not just phone makers.

Software developers should also abandon USA, there's no point to feed up yourself with software patents and all that crap, and have the rest of the world be affected because of the bullshit patents going on in USA.

USA has no future, unless their citizens force the government to change things for the betterment of everyone.

Edited 2012-08-28 15:09 UTC