Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 5th Sep 2012 23:41 UTC
PDAs, Cellphones, Wireless If there's one thing I miss in the current smartphone industry, it's design. Honest to good, real design. We basically see one boring slab after another, void of any true identity, whether it's iPhone, Samsung, or any of the others. In this boring world of grey, black, and the occasional white, Nokia is the jester, coming up with its own unique designs and crazy colour selection. Today, the company unveiled the Lumia 920 and 820 to continue this trend.
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ramasubbu_sk
Member since:
2007-04-05
dsmogor Member since:
2005-09-01

How come did the guy demonstrated OIS on 820? Isn't it supposed to get casual 8mp without any stabilization?
As for offline maps they haven't saved Nokia for last 5 years (though they made my N9 replace hw GPS device).

Reply Score: 2

Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

The device shown was a 920. 820 doesnt have OIS or the improved low light performance but it does share improved software side image processing.

Edited 2012-09-06 19:04 UTC

Reply Score: 2

dsmogor Member since:
2005-09-01

Right, I skipped through it and didn't notice he swapped devices, my bad.

Reply Score: 2

henderson101 Member since:
2006-05-30

Fairly sure that's just a refined N950, which was the developer phone prior to the release of the N9.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_N950

http://www.2dayblog.com/2011/07/02/nokias-n950-demos-meego-harmatta...

Reply Score: 2

Nice, but I'm not into gloss
by gan17 on Thu 6th Sep 2012 00:19 UTC
gan17
Member since:
2008-06-03

Not on my radar, but they do look pretty nice. Personally, I'd prefer a more matte options, like my black (made in Finland, btw) N9.

Reply Score: 3

kamil_chatrnuch Member since:
2005-07-07

the black & grey ones will be matte.

Reply Score: 4

The chassis are pretty fugly
by ronaldst on Thu 6th Sep 2012 01:37 UTC
ronaldst
Member since:
2005-06-29

I was hoping for something new in the design dept. The iPod Mini look is getting old.

All that glossy is painful sight to behold.

Reply Score: 2

Red
by Bink on Thu 6th Sep 2012 01:56 UTC
Bink
Member since:
2006-02-19

Wow. Eight boring paragraphs about the color red.

Reply Score: 7

RE: Red
by WorknMan on Thu 6th Sep 2012 05:38 UTC in reply to "Red"
WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

Wow. Eight boring paragraphs about the color red.


Don't you know? That's how you cater to the masses these days... just make it look pretty, and preferably make sure it comes in lots of different colors too. Devices have to be 'sexy' these days; to hell with how they actually function. (Well, except for the camera... gotta have a good camera for all that food porn you'll be uploading to hipstergram.)

Reply Score: 4

Comment by MOS6510
by MOS6510 on Thu 6th Sep 2012 04:55 UTC
MOS6510
Member since:
2011-05-12

I hope Nokia gets rewarded for doing their own thing and not copying Apple.

Personally the most I like about the new Lumia's is the wireless charging. Just put the phone in the dock and pick it up later with a charge ready to go instead of fumbling around with USB wires or adapters.

Sure the dock also needs a wire, but you can put in some effort to make it look nice or hide it.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by MOS6510
by bowkota on Thu 6th Sep 2012 05:23 UTC in reply to "Comment by MOS6510"
bowkota Member since:
2011-10-12

I hope Nokia gets rewarded for doing their own thing and not copying Apple.

Yeap I totally agree with you there. However it is a very tough sell considering it only runs Windows Phone. To date, I haven't met One person who was satisfied with Windows Phone OS; although to be honest it is a very small sample size since there aren't that many out there.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by MOS6510
by MOS6510 on Thu 6th Sep 2012 05:32 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by MOS6510"
MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

It does surprise me as they are good phones.

Well, I don't like the cheaper Lumia models. One co-worker has one and compared to my Lumia 800 it looks 'n' feels a bit, ehm, crap. The main reason for this are the hardware buttons on the front which feel really bad.

My Lumia has never crashed, although it turned itself off a few times for no apparent reason and sometimes the GPS goes mental. Apart from that it's fast and responsive, good battery life.

The only real odd think about it is when you turn if off and on it can happen that the time and date is totally random, even if it's set to automatically set time. I unset this, set the date/time, turn it back on and it's fine.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment by MOS6510
by iswrong on Thu 6th Sep 2012 19:06 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by MOS6510"
iswrong Member since:
2012-07-15

I bought a Lumia 710 a few months ago besides my iPhone to play with Windows Phone. And I have to say, for the price (~205 Euro) it is quite a good and sturdy phone. If you compare it to other phones in the same price range, it is robust and has an acceptable screen. The real buttons and the camera are not so nice.

I absolutely love Windows Phone 7.5. The user interface is fresh and different, and I can't wait to try one of the Windows Phone 8 phones. If Nokia isn't nuked by halfway next year and Microsoft's update policy is acceptable, I'll probably get an 820 or 920 when my contract runs out.

My current iPhone is probably last. I don't like companies that do not compete with innovation.

Edited 2012-09-06 19:09 UTC

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Comment by MOS6510
by Spiron on Thu 6th Sep 2012 07:01 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by MOS6510"
Spiron Member since:
2011-03-08

That's odd, everyone I know with a WP7 phone is incredibly happy with it. that's no small amount either, i know about ton of people with them.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Comment by MOS6510
by dagw on Thu 6th Sep 2012 08:57 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by MOS6510"
dagw Member since:
2005-07-06

To date, I haven't met One person who was satisfied with Windows Phone OS;

That's odd. All the people I know who've actually bought and used a WP7 phone are very happy with them.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Comment by MOS6510
by Ultimatebadass on Thu 6th Sep 2012 10:16 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by MOS6510"
Ultimatebadass Member since:
2006-01-08

I have a WP7 phone, although i miss a few features (call whitelist/blacklist mostly) i'm pretty happy with it.

I can see myself upgrading to a wp8 device in a ~year.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Comment by MOS6510
by tomcat on Fri 7th Sep 2012 03:36 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by MOS6510"
tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

"I hope Nokia gets rewarded for doing their own thing and not copying Apple.

Yeap I totally agree with you there. However it is a very tough sell considering it only runs Windows Phone. To date, I haven't met One person who was satisfied with Windows Phone OS; although to be honest it is a very small sample size since there aren't that many out there.
"


Not buying that at all. You clearly don't know anybody who uses Windows Phone. Let me guess: Andr01d or iPh0n3 rokz 4ever, right?

Edited 2012-09-07 03:38 UTC

Reply Score: 3

Still depressing
by masennus on Thu 6th Sep 2012 05:08 UTC
masennus
Member since:
2011-02-11

I can still not understand how Thom, as an os-geek, can give so much public endorsement to a piece of hardware that if successful will lock millions of people out of alternative operating systems.

****************
The new nokias can by design only be connected to a pc with a mainstream operating system!
****************

(There is a great selection of TWO, and the second one has very small market share, so it will probably be dropped if windows phone ever get big)

For this reason I, as a finn, would rather have nokia die than succeed with the current strategy.

Thom has apparently given up and been assimilated.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Still depressing
by MOS6510 on Thu 6th Sep 2012 05:15 UTC in reply to "Still depressing"
MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

Phones don't lock out people, people do.

If you're a Windows user, which most people are, what's wrong with buying a phone that works with Windows?

Should you switch to Linux the worst that can happen is that you can't hook up your phone to it, but who does that anyway these days? It's all WiFi, Bluetooth and cloud stuff now.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Still depressing
by masennus on Thu 6th Sep 2012 05:56 UTC in reply to "RE: Still depressing"
masennus Member since:
2011-02-11

Wow, didn't know you could connect a pc to a lumia phone with wifi. How do you do that?

And again: I'm not suggesting that average people would know or care, I'm just having a hard time understanding how someone rooting for haiku and risc os while mourning the fate of beos still have only praises for this thing that deliberately makes it even more difficult to use anything other than mainstream os'es.

And about average people, just an example: Every classroom in my childrens school has a pc and some kind of "interactive whiteboard" with a projector and bluetooth connected pens, which is very frequently used. When one of the teachers has bought a "new nokia" and for the first time tries to copy off some pictures from the last school trip to show on the whiteboard, it won't work **** ONLY because microsoft decided that it MUST NOT work *****

The computers are running linux, as is every computer in the whole school district. As are the computers in the libraries. This is real, and happening, and microsoft is fighting it every way they can, as always. Still it might go the way of beos, only because people doesn't care.

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: Still depressing
by MOS6510 on Thu 6th Sep 2012 06:16 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Still depressing"
MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

Wow, didn't know you could connect a pc to a lumia phone with wifi. How do you do that?


I don't know, but I didn't say that. What I meant is that connecting your phone to other devices/services is done using wireless technology these days. You don't need to transfer pictures to your computer to upload them to Facebook, you don't need to synchronize your address book via a wire with your computer. You don't even need a wire anymore to charge or connect a headset.

The teacher bought the wrong phone, but then he or she still could have put the pictures on-line. I'm not sure the IT department would like personnel filling up hard drives with pictures and other stuff.

If millions of people start using Linux then Nokia will put in the effort. Right now it makes no business sense to get all the hassle those hundreds of different Linux distributions give you for the VERY small percentage of Linux users that would/could buy a Lumia.

For a Linux user an Android phone would be a more logical choice.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Still depressing
by masennus on Thu 6th Sep 2012 06:28 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Still depressing"
masennus Member since:
2011-02-11

There, you said it yourself:

"The teacher bought the wrong phone"

And this is what the teacher WILL tell every friend, and this is what the IT department WILL tell every teacher.

You are not suggesting that the IT department would rather have the teachers use facebook to be able to show photos in the classroom, are you? Or do you mean that showing photos in the classroom can not possibly be part of the teaching?

Btw, with any old nokia you don't even have to copy over the picture to the harddrive. You just plug in the cable or connect with bluetooth and open the picture directly from the phone. Neat isn't it with working standards?

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Still depressing
by MOS6510 on Thu 6th Sep 2012 06:42 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Still depressing"
MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12


Btw, with any old nokia you don't even have to copy over the picture to the harddrive. You just plug in the cable or connect with bluetooth and open the picture directly from the phone.


Not sure you'd want to show pictures taken with an old Nokia phone, they'd be very bad and this badness will be magnified even more on a projection screen.

If a teacher working with Linux computers wants to take pictures with a mobile phone and show them on a Linux computer he'd better make sure the mobile phone he wants to buy can do this.

Or:
http://www.todoleo.com/2012/05/nokia-lumia-710-and-ubuntu-they-spea...

I see nothing wrong with putting pictures on Facebook and showing them in a classroom.

I have a lot of Apple stuff at home and prefer Linux to Windows, but my son has a Windows computer (and an iMac!), because all kinds of educational stuff only runs on Windows. If your school works with Linux they'll have a lot more/worse problems than showing kids pictures taken on some trip.

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Still depressing
by masennus on Thu 6th Sep 2012 06:56 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Still depressing"
masennus Member since:
2011-02-11

Bad pictures? Are you trying to be funny? Old nokia in this context includes phones like N8, N9 and the mighty 808 pureview. And at least 50 other models producing pictures way better than a projector will be able to show anyway.

Phones where these kind of things, you know, just work. Which old nokia customers are likely to assume will continue to work on any new nokia, and they will be disappointed.

But ok, since microsoft is desperately trying to invent ways to lock in their existing customers before they loose them we might as well just let them. They will surely win anyway, resistance is futile. Who am I to dream of a technology world where there is diversity and choise, made possible by working interoperability standards.

....


I spoke with the headmaster, the only problem with using linux he remembered was when pupuils sometimes work on a text at home and brings it back to school, the formatting might be off if they were using an incompatible word processor at home. I suggested that he could suggest to parents that they install the same wordprocessor at home that the school uses, since it is free and available for all operating systems. Good idea, he said.

Not too unreasonable request in my opinion, anyway much more reasonable than requiring people to buy a program that might not even be available for the os you are using.

Of course there could be problems in countries where people have already given in to vendor lock-in. What you are saying seems to be that it is too late to change anything where you live. Sad.

Edited 2012-09-06 07:13 UTC

Reply Score: 5

RE[7]: Still depressing
by MOS6510 on Thu 6th Sep 2012 07:21 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Still depressing"
MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

When you mention "old Nokia phones" I assumed you meant old Nokia phone. The 808 was released earlier this year. Maybe "previous models" describes better what you mean.

But apparently more current Nokia models can be made to work with Linux, if the Linux distribution is also current.

If you're very fond of standards and openness then go for it. If more and more people do this then companies will go with it too if those kinds of products sell more.

Not having standard connectivity between a Nokia Lumia and a Linux PC is currently for must people not a problem or a factor when buying.

I'll agree with you that the world would be nice and happier if everything was based on open standards and would be compatible with each other, but the world isn't like that and until it is you have to pay attention what you buy based on what you want to do with it.

Reply Score: 3

RE[7]: Still depressing
by MOS6510 on Thu 6th Sep 2012 09:25 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Still depressing"
MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

My previous reply was made before your edit.

The software my kid uses on his Windows PC is nothing to do with his school, it's just some educational stuff my wife wants him to do to get some extra education.

I know they only use Windows at school, so I wouldn't be surprised that parents/kids that don't use Windows will run in to some problems at some point in time.

For me this isn't a big deal as I'm technical savvy and have loads of idle hardware. It is nasty for people that don't have these mental and physical recourses. In that case I agree with you that, certainly on the educational level, open and free standards should be the way.

But I don't think a Nokia Lumia is part of our kids education. Any normal camera with a memory card should have no problems getting them on a Linux PC.

As I mentioned before apparently you can hook up a Lumia to a Linux PC and access its media.

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Still depressing
by Dekonega on Thu 6th Sep 2012 18:20 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Still depressing"
Dekonega Member since:
2009-07-28

I see nothing wrong with putting pictures on Facebook and showing them in a classroom.

That's a huge privacy and rights violation. Who in their right mind would do that?

Edited 2012-09-06 18:23 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Still depressing
by Dekonega on Thu 6th Sep 2012 18:22 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Still depressing"
Dekonega Member since:
2009-07-28

Wow, didn't know you could connect a pc to a lumia phone with wifi. How do you do that?

With Zune Software you can wifi connect any Windows Phone device. But you can only sync Music, Pictures and Videos. And it only works with Windows-devices.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Still depressing
by JAlexoid on Thu 6th Sep 2012 10:29 UTC in reply to "RE: Still depressing"
JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

Phones don't lock out people, people do.

If you're a Windows user, which most people are, what's wrong with buying a phone that works with Windows?

Should you switch to Linux the worst that can happen is that you can't hook up your phone to it, but who does that anyway these days? It's all WiFi, Bluetooth and cloud stuff now.



You might have missed the crucial modifier to his statement - "as an os-geek"

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Still depressing
by MOS6510 on Thu 6th Sep 2012 11:11 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Still depressing"
MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

The os-geek pas part of an statement regarding Thom's public endorsement of the new Lumia.

I don't think his personal characteristics (should) have any influence of the population targeted by Nokia. They target the average customer, like most companies do because this is the largest group of people. The average customer uses Windows.

Issues of open standards/protocols aren't high if at all on the average consumer's list (even if they should be). If it works it works, if it doesn't it's crap.

Relative few people use Linux, most have put some thought in to why they want to Linux. I assume they'll also put in this same amount of planning when selecting a phone and most will probably go for a Linux based Android phone and not a WP7/8 Nokia one.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Still depressing
by raddude9 on Fri 7th Sep 2012 09:06 UTC in reply to "RE: Still depressing"
raddude9 Member since:
2009-07-15

What phones Don't work with Windows BTW?

And just because these phone run Windows doesn't make them flexible like PCs that run windows. On any PC you buy today you have the freedom to put an alternative OS on it. We should demand the same of our phones, it's our hardware after all.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Still depressing
by ichi on Fri 7th Sep 2012 09:40 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Still depressing"
ichi Member since:
2007-03-06

On any PC you buy today you have the freedom to put an alternative OS on it. We should demand the same of our phones, it's our hardware after all.


The current trend seems to be restricting what you can run on hardware that used to be open, not giving you more freedom on devices that are currently locked down.

At some point you'll probably have to "jailbreak" your PC to install an alternative OS.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Still depressing
by Skender on Thu 6th Sep 2012 09:08 UTC in reply to "Still depressing"
Skender Member since:
2010-11-18

That you need a PC to connect it to, is a dealbreaker for me. I never need to connect my (ancient) N900 to a PC. Not even for (the vast majority of) OS updates. I can't think of a good reason why you would be required to have certain software running on a PC to be ably to make full use of your smartphone...

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Still depressing
by tomcat on Fri 7th Sep 2012 03:43 UTC in reply to "RE: Still depressing"
tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

That you need a PC to connect it to, is a dealbreaker for me. I never need to connect my (ancient) N900 to a PC. Not even for (the vast majority of) OS updates. I can't think of a good reason why you would be required to have certain software running on a PC to be ably to make full use of your smartphone...


You don't. Go to the carrier. They'll upgrade it for you while you wait.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Still depressing
by iswrong on Thu 6th Sep 2012 19:13 UTC in reply to "Still depressing"
iswrong Member since:
2012-07-15

Well, there is Windows Phone 7 Connector for the Mac as well. Consequently, ~99% of the population can connect their WP7 to their computer.

By the way, isn't Windows Phone 8 going to support over-the-air updates?

Reply Score: 1

RE: Still depressing
by bassbeast on Fri 7th Sep 2012 15:17 UTC in reply to "Still depressing"
bassbeast Member since:
2007-11-11

If you want to complain that it has no Linux support then you should rightly go write a nasty letter to the Linux devs, start with Torvalds and work your way down. or do you blame the farmer who raised the beef when Mickey D's gives you a lousy burger?

The simple fact is as long as Torvalds, giant ego that he is, refuses to allow a stable ABI or API then the vast majority of companies simply won't support you, its just THAT simple. You can write a piece of software in Windows and have it run on anything from Win2K-Win 8 X64 and moreover it will KEEP running without having a team of devs constantly rewrite the thing. Don't give us that 'Just give us the code" BS either, we saw how well that worked with AMD, most companies aren't gonna bet their business on some stranger writing their programs for them, give it up chuck.

So either give the companies a platform that can be "written once, used for years" or don't complain when nobody supports you, most places have better things to spend money on than a team of devs to support an OS with 0.97% market share.

As for TFA, they look pretty which to the masses seems to be important, but I don't see any Micro-SD slot and considering those that were dumb enough to buy winPhone 7 won't be getting WinPhone 8 I have to wonder how many are gonna risk taking another shot. like it or not with Android phones you can usually get one or even two updates, if by no other means Cyanogenmod, but with WinPhone you really have to look at the history of the company and MSFT has a nasty habit of pulling the rug out from under users, playsforsure,Zune,Kin,Sidekick anyone?

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Still depressing
by dukes on Fri 7th Sep 2012 16:22 UTC in reply to "RE: Still depressing"
dukes Member since:
2005-07-06

...but I don't see any Micro-SD slot and considering those that were dumb enough to buy winPhone 7 won't be getting WinPhone 8 I have to wonder how many are gonna risk taking another shot.


I bought a WP7 Phone and I'm not dumb. I'm also going to buy WP8. It suits my lifestyle just fine. [This is coming from a long time iPhone owner and owner of a N7].

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Still depressing
by tomcat on Sat 8th Sep 2012 17:25 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Still depressing"
tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

"...but I don't see any Micro-SD slot and considering those that were dumb enough to buy winPhone 7 won't be getting WinPhone 8 I have to wonder how many are gonna risk taking another shot.


I bought a WP7 Phone and I'm not dumb. I'm also going to buy WP8. It suits my lifestyle just fine. [This is coming from a long time iPhone owner and owner of a N7].
"

Me, too. Can't wait to buy the 920. Red, as Thom said.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Still depressing
by ichi on Fri 7th Sep 2012 16:28 UTC in reply to "RE: Still depressing"
ichi Member since:
2007-03-06

You can write a piece of software in Windows and have it run on anything from Win2K-Win 8 X64 and moreover it will KEEP running without having a team of devs constantly rewrite the thing.


If you are talking about drivers then no, you can't write a driver for Win2k that works on Win8 x64.

And it's also drivers what break with the unstable internal kernel ABI in Linux, because the external API is actually quite stable. Any other software besides kernel drivers will run on any kernel version you throw it at.

I'm not really sure about a stable internal ABI being the holy grail people claim it would be, anyway. Sure, it might have made it easier for some devs to release binary drivers, but it would also mean maintaining old cruft in a kernel that's intended to be developed fast (how many kernel releases have we had already?).

And then, WP phones not being supported on Linux have nothing to do with inestable ABIs anyway, you don't really need a kernel driver to copy stuff to an external device.

Edited 2012-09-07 16:31 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Still depressing
by bassbeast on Sat 8th Sep 2012 11:31 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Still depressing"
bassbeast Member since:
2007-11-11

Nope you can just write FOUR, count 'em four drivers, and have every. single. version. of Windows currently supported covered for the LIFE of the OS. watch...2K/XP 32, XP X64, WinVista/7/8 32, WinVista/7/8 X64. That's it, stick a fork you are done. That gives you every single version of Windows from 2000-2020 with just FOUR drivers.

But this is why corps simply aren't gonna support you, they can write for OSX and get 5 years minimum, write for Windows and get 10+, or write for Linux and have the thing break in less than a year when some dev gets an itch...which do YOU think is more cost effective? Pulling an Nvidia and having to hire a team to do nothing but fix broken drivers, or write once and use for years?

And again don't give us the "Just give us the code!" because that is as much BS as saying "Give us your A&P textbook and we'll do our own open heart surgery!" because again, look at AMD. The devs have had the specs for 3 years now, drivers aren't even as good as Windows drivers from 3 years ago. Writing low level system drivers is HARD, extremely hard, and frankly 90%+ of the coders out there simply aren't qualified to do it and those that are qualified have their dance cards full at work so ain't volunteering.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Still depressing
by ichi on Sat 8th Sep 2012 15:23 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Still depressing"
ichi Member since:
2007-03-06

I agree about the increased difficulty of writting (or rather maintaining) kernel drivers with a unestable internal kernel ABI, that point is pretty much obvious, but that still has nothing to do with WP not working on Linux.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Still depressing
by No it isnt on Sat 8th Sep 2012 22:32 UTC in reply to "RE: Still depressing"
No it isnt Member since:
2005-11-14

Why is it that everyone who's complaining about the ABI has no fucking clue what it's for? You don't need kernel support for a protocol to talk to a USB device. Make it a library. Write once, etc.

So much vitriol just for stating your own incompetence.

Reply Score: 2

Valhalla
Member since:
2006-01-24

Probably not the effect they were going for.

Looks like the stock market investors are very sceptical of the new offerings and how well they will compete against IPhone and Android.

Reply Score: 4

UltraZelda64
Member since:
2006-12-05

Glossy finishes suck, IMO matte is the way to go. Too bad that's mostly *not* the way companies are going. Similarly, I want my electronics to be black. Not a hideous white or brown, or an eyeball-searing bright red, yellow or orange. Just a simple black with protection from becoming a fingerprint and smear magnet through the use of a matte finish. I don't want my electronics to double as a mirror.

I don't want to know just how fast someone would swipe a shiny bright red or yellow phone after you set it down for a second and forget it on accident. It would stand out like a sore thumb, no matter what the color of the desk and the other objects on the desk are, and in all but the darkest lighting conditions. It would be like birds targeting a bright red car to shit on, cops targeting nice sports cars to pull over, bees going after a nice big colorful sunflower, or flies attracted to shit. It's just a bad idea, and for electronics, downright ugly IMO.

Edited 2012-09-06 06:06 UTC

Reply Score: 5

What a waste...
by spiderman on Thu 6th Sep 2012 06:49 UTC
spiderman
Member since:
2008-10-23

This looks like a fine phone. This is great technology and hardware design here. Why do they have to lock it down to WP8? Why don't they sell it with no OS or MeeGo? This is such a waste. Why do these big corporations always have to create such great products and waste them like that? Oh boy, this is Nokia. They will probably probably fire the engineers that made this technology happen and give a raise to their brain dead managers. Then if the phone start to sell well they will cancel it and make sure the next one is a failure.

Reply Score: 2

Touch-Friendly Gloves
by boxy on Thu 6th Sep 2012 07:09 UTC
boxy
Member since:
2011-06-20

If you need to use a touchscreen in the winter months, I recommend agloves (Google it). I have a pair and they work great with my Evo4g and my wife's iPhone4.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Touch-Friendly Gloves
by zima on Sun 9th Sep 2012 04:30 UTC in reply to "Touch-Friendly Gloves"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Or just normal wool (or smth) gloves with a small hole at the tip of one finger, or two...

(if it's so cold that something like this would be a problem, you'd better be wearing Arctic mittens on top, anyway)

Reply Score: 2

v Comment by kovacm
by kovacm on Thu 6th Sep 2012 07:14 UTC
RE: Comment by kovacm
by MOS6510 on Thu 6th Sep 2012 07:22 UTC in reply to "Comment by kovacm"
MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12
v RE[2]: Comment by kovacm
by kovacm on Thu 6th Sep 2012 11:52 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by kovacm"
RE[3]: Comment by kovacm
by MOS6510 on Thu 6th Sep 2012 11:59 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by kovacm"
MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

It's a bit anti-Apple, otherwise I would have done it for you. :-p

But it's really simple. Fill in the title, copy/paste the url, enter 'laru', preview, submit.

Reply Score: 2

Jolla
by znby on Thu 6th Sep 2012 07:15 UTC
znby
Member since:
2012-02-03

I wonder if Jolla will be able to make phones with the same level of style and quality as Nokia. I worry that even if the software is good, the hardware could let it down.

Incidentally, I have seen an N9 "in the wild." The fact that it was in the hands of a former Nokia employee probably says a lot though...

Reply Score: 2

RE: Jolla
by daedalus on Thu 6th Sep 2012 12:16 UTC in reply to "Jolla"
daedalus Member since:
2011-01-14

Incidentally, I have seen an N9 "in the wild." The fact that it was in the hands of a former Nokia employee probably says a lot though...


I have one in my hand right now ;) And I absolutely adore it. Complies with all the standards too, nearly everyone has a cable that fits it, connect it to any OS and it shows up as a mass storage device. All the updates are wireless, supports all the standard Bluetooth protocols, and doesn't need any fancy software on the PC side. Just as well, because Nokia didn't really release any... But being able to pair it with my Linux laptop and instantly have 3G broadband available with no messing about is a joy!

I don't know what I'll replace it with in a couple of years. Windows 8 looks nice and WP7 is good, but it doesn't make me happy the way Meego does.

Reply Score: 7

Great
by wawrzyn on Thu 6th Sep 2012 07:57 UTC
wawrzyn
Member since:
2009-03-24

This is what I was waiting for. I considered Lumia 800, 900, but there were too many limitations. Then I considered good-old N8 (which is great Nokia Belle based smartphone) vs E7 (similar to N8, with keyboard and without some features of N8). At this time I discovered PureView (also Nokia Belle based) also - very nice follow up to N8, however, in my opinion, a little bit weak in hardware department.

Finally, I decided to take N8. And you know what? This is great smartphone. I made hundreds of great photos from my latest trips to Vilnius, Riga, Tallinn an Prague. Mainly street views and architecture, but some photos are good enough to be exposed on the walls at home :-) Moreover, off-line GPS with voice is really good. Therefore, N8 is one of the best phones/smartphones I've seen. Very flexible and universal. No limitations of Lumia 800, 900, good battery time (due to lower hardware), nice looking Nokia Belle with themes, modern feel (however Nokia Belle = Symbian), lots of applications in Ovi shop - I downloaded everything I need, including Endomondo for running.

What's more? I have everything I wanted.

But, the next smartphone will be Nokia with Windows Phone 8. Maybe not 820, 920, but their follow-ups. This is it - a mix between features of N8/PureView (reduced sensor doesn't make a difference for me, N8 has 12Mpx and its enough).

Could you imagine how nice it will be to integrate you PCs, notebooks and XBox console together? Although, I'm PS3 user :-)

Very happy news! I'm Nokia fun since many years.

Reply Score: 2

So no real pureview
by dsmogor on Thu 6th Sep 2012 08:21 UTC
dsmogor
Member since:
2005-09-01

I still have to see the photos but feel disappointed, I still hope they will release a proper PureView (not stigmatized by Symbian perception) to permanently imprint Nokia = mobile photography in the consumers heads. Where's what we really missed: www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9Roc2KElG8&feature=player_embedded
The OIS is a nice and practical feature from Carl Zeiss but that one is easier for competitors to catch up to(I guess Samsung is busy now getting their own).

Reply Score: 2

RE: So no real pureview
by ricegf on Thu 6th Sep 2012 11:01 UTC in reply to "So no real pureview"
ricegf Member since:
2007-04-25

I still have to see the photos but feel disappointed


Investors do, too, judging from Nokia's stock dive yesterday.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: So no real pureview
by Nelson on Thu 6th Sep 2012 18:57 UTC in reply to "RE: So no real pureview"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

Microsoft's stock drops after every Windows release. However, I'm sure you re much more informed that the rest of us, Mr. Stock Analyst.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: So no real pureview
by ricegf on Fri 7th Sep 2012 01:39 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: So no real pureview"
ricegf Member since:
2007-04-25

Look, I'm really sorry to be the bearer of news you hate to hear, but I'm simply commenting on the news. You needn't believe me. Read the reports for yourself. Here's the top 3 in my Google News search for Nokia, to get you started.

http://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/news/2012/09/05/nokia-stock-dive...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/technology/nokia-shares-cont...

Nokia Cut To Sell From Hold By S&P Equity Research, http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20120906-706758.html

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: So no real pureview
by Nelson on Fri 7th Sep 2012 02:40 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: So no real pureview"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

Stocks fluctuate for many reasons, which is the point behind my stock analyst remark. You're just as wrong jumping to conclusions when a stock drops, as those who jump to conclusions when it rises (and it did rise about 60% prior)

Also, I wouldn't buy into what ratings agencies say much. After all, they rated subprime mortgages and CDOs as AAA during the run up to the Financial Collapse. A bunch of crooks.

Reply Score: 3

RE[5]: So no real pureview
by dsmogor on Fri 7th Sep 2012 06:48 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: So no real pureview"
dsmogor Member since:
2005-09-01

Nokia stocks are the best way to get rich quickly nowadays ;)

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: So no real pureview
by tomcat on Fri 7th Sep 2012 03:48 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: So no real pureview"
tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

Look, I'm really sorry to be the bearer of news you hate to hear, but I'm simply commenting on the news. You needn't believe me. Read the reports for yourself. Here's the top 3 in my Google News search for Nokia, to get you started.

http://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/news/2012/09/05/nokia-stock-dive...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/technology/nokia-shares-cont...

Nokia Cut To Sell From Hold By S&P Equity Research, http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20120906-706758.html


I hate to be the bearer of bad news but NOK was up 3.36% today. What does that tell you? Hint: Markets fluctuate, don't put a lot of weight behind short-term movements.

Reply Score: 3

Comment by Radio
by Radio on Thu 6th Sep 2012 09:47 UTC
Radio
Member since:
2009-06-20

For the sake of this industry, I hope Microsoft fails and gets the boot they deserve for all those years.

Also, their designs are less and less "inspired": they are regurgitating again and again the N9 body. A bland design, a colored rouded rectangle - yes, it is a rounded rectangle too - instead of a black one. Meh.

And, the last straw on the unicorn's back: the Windows Phone UI is supposed to be less boring than iOS and Android? Please. It is wildly different (...except if you see it as a collection of widgets as a front page), but less boring?

Edited 2012-09-06 09:49 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by Radio
by Nelson on Thu 6th Sep 2012 19:11 UTC in reply to "Comment by Radio"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

Yeah, that poor, boring, AWARD WINNING design(I'm talking both the OS and the Hardware).

And please, half the fucking widgets in Android are either hideous, don't scale, and useless. The other half randomly stop updating.

The Live Tile paradigm is much richer. Especially with the improvements in Windows Phone 8.

Reply Score: 0

RE[2]: Comment by Radio
by dsmogor on Fri 7th Sep 2012 06:14 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by Radio"
dsmogor Member since:
2005-09-01

Last time I check, it was N9 that got the design award for SW/HW combination. And it bate L800 in the same competition. But maybe we're talking about different competitions (I talk about the one in London).

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Comment by Radio
by Nelson on Fri 7th Sep 2012 06:21 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by Radio"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

I was speaking about Microsoft winning a design award for the OS and Nokia winning a design award for the Lumia 900. So we likely are talking about different awards.

The N9 is gorgeous though, so it makes sense.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Comment by Radio
by ichi on Fri 7th Sep 2012 07:23 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by Radio"
ichi Member since:
2007-03-06

I was speaking about Microsoft winning a design award for the OS and Nokia winning a design award for the Lumia 900. So we likely are talking about different awards.


Everyone seems to have some kind of award on his shelves these days, Google also won a design award recently for Android's UI.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Comment by Radio
by Nelson on Fri 7th Sep 2012 06:22 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by Radio"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

Edit: dupe

Edited 2012-09-07 06:28 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by Radio
by tomcat on Fri 7th Sep 2012 03:49 UTC in reply to "Comment by Radio"
tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

For the sake of this industry, I hope Microsoft fails and gets the boot they deserve for all those years.

Also, their designs are less and less "inspired": they are regurgitating again and again the N9 body. A bland design, a colored rouded rectangle - yes, it is a rounded rectangle too - instead of a black one. Meh.

And, the last straw on the unicorn's back: the Windows Phone UI is supposed to be less boring than iOS and Android? Please. It is wildly different (...except if you see it as a collection of widgets as a front page), but less boring?


Yeah, just what we need: fewer choices in the market, higher prices, lower quality. Rah, rah, rah. Feel better? Idiotic comment.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by Radio
by dsmogor on Fri 7th Sep 2012 06:40 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by Radio"
dsmogor Member since:
2005-09-01

I would be right if MS didn't have killing any competitors (with any means, legal or not) in its DNA.
I want to emphasize once again: killing not competing (I admit that Apple isn't any better recently).
They are not about choice for the consumer but removing that through network effects that are totally outside of consumer control. Ok, XBOX is another story, a sign or "new" MS, but answer me is XBOX a sustainable business for them? Aren't they still making most revenue from their monopolies?

I'm all for competition but be it RIM, WebOs, Japanese super duper mistery OS, but pleeeaase not MS.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment by Radio
by Neolander on Fri 7th Sep 2012 09:56 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by Radio"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

I'm all for competition but be it RIM, WebOs, Japanese super duper mistery OS, but pleeeaase not MS.

WANT.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Comment by Radio
by tomcat on Sat 8th Sep 2012 17:20 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by Radio"
tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

I would be right if MS didn't have killing any competitors (with any means, legal or not) in its DNA.
I want to emphasize once again: killing not competing (I admit that Apple isn't any better recently).
They are not about choice for the consumer but removing that through network effects that are totally outside of consumer control. Ok, XBOX is another story, a sign or "new" MS, but answer me is XBOX a sustainable business for them? Aren't they still making most revenue from their monopolies?

I'm all for competition but be it RIM, WebOs, Japanese super duper mistery OS, but pleeeaase not MS.


Paging, dsmogor. The 1990s are calling you. Seriously, dude, it's a new world. Microsoft isn't squaring off against a few poorly coordinated, inept players anymore. Google, Apple, Etc are all very well-financed and dominant in their markets. Any fears that you have are utterly muted by current reality. Microsoft will be *lucky* to gain even relevant market share in search, mobile, tablets. And given that, anything which makes the dominant players continue to compete, produce better products, and lower prices is good for everyone. Rooting for monopolies is what you're doing. Bad, bad idea. Apple and Google are the new Microsofts -- and in some ways, they are a lot worse.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Comment by Radio
by dsmogor on Mon 10th Sep 2012 10:50 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by Radio"
dsmogor Member since:
2005-09-01

I think you're calling from the (unspecified) future.
Last time I checked I still had to use Windows on my home PC for one reason or another even though my core activities (development for that matter) aren't even remotely Windows related.
While it looks that in consumer computing they may face being sidelined (and that's good for the consumer), there are sizeable chunks they still hold an iron grip on. And make no mistake, the ecosystem talk is a pretext to lock their desktop and mobile plaforms to each other like never before.

Reply Score: 2

Why
by AlekosPanagulis on Thu 6th Sep 2012 11:06 UTC
AlekosPanagulis
Member since:
2012-03-19

Thom, i don't understand why for you Android is so boring and Windows so exciting. I bought an Omnia 7, and at first impression i liked a lot Wp7 smoothness, semplicity and minimalism. Very unique. But after a while Windows is so boring, you can't change or customize anyting. Always the same. What's is more boring than that? On my previous SGS and on my SGS2 i can do wonderful things. You can change gui ANYTIME YOU WANT, AS YOU WANT.

Reply Score: 7

RE: Why
by dukes on Thu 6th Sep 2012 21:19 UTC in reply to "Why"
dukes Member since:
2005-07-06

Thom, i don't understand why for you Android is so boring and Windows so exciting. I bought an Omnia 7, and at first impression i liked a lot Wp7 smoothness, semplicity and minimalism. Very unique. But after a while Windows is so boring, you can't change or customize anyting. Always the same. What's is more boring than that? On my previous SGS and on my SGS2 i can do wonderful things. You can change gui ANYTIME YOU WANT, AS YOU WANT.


I have a Lumia 900. You're saying I can't customize ANYTHING at ANYTIME? It's "Always the same"?

Wrong.

You never had a WP.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Why
by Nelson on Thu 6th Sep 2012 21:22 UTC in reply to "Why"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

Like that awesome TouchWiz customization, man, I sure do miss that in WP.

SINCERELY,
Nobody.

Reply Score: 2

No price, no release date, 180g
by Alexandre on Thu 6th Sep 2012 14:06 UTC
Alexandre
Member since:
2008-10-30

180g!!!! This is insanely heavy. Who cares about build quality, phones are not supposed to last more than 2 years.
The only justification to that heavy weight would be a huge battery, like bigger than the one on Motorola MAXX phones.
What if Samsung starts selling more windows 8 phones?!!!!

Reply Score: 0

daedalus Member since:
2011-01-14

Believe it or not, some people like a well-built phone. Not everyone's usage is the same - some people are hard on phones and end up killing a cheap phone after less than a year. I still have my Nokia E52 which served me very well for nearly 3 years, and it's still working perfectly, still getting a week out of the battery. That's a good thing for many people!

It is pretty heavy as phones go, but given the bigger battery than most current phones and the increased screen size over the N9 it's probably not a bad trade-off.

Reply Score: 6

Alexandre Member since:
2008-10-30

Plastic phones last longer than glass ones. I prefer scratches to a broken screen.
And plastic just feel worse, galaxy s phones seem like the battery cover is going to be ruined after a few days, but it's the mega tough gorilla glass on the front that can't stand hitting the concrete floor.

Reply Score: 2

daedalus Member since:
2011-01-14

Plastic phones last longer than glass ones. I prefer scratches to a broken screen.
And plastic just feel worse, galaxy s phones seem like the battery cover is going to be ruined after a few days, but it's the mega tough gorilla glass on the front that can't stand hitting the concrete floor.


Well, depends on the handset. I've recently replaced the screen in a HTC Desire, which has a plastic touch screen. The plastic was undamaged, but the LCD was smashed. So, plastic or glass, if it's gonna break it's gonna break...

Reply Score: 1

WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

180g!!!! This is insanely heavy. Who cares about build quality, phones are not supposed to last more than 2 years.


....aaaand this is why we have so much electronic waste polluting the environment.

Reply Score: 5

Nokia N9 rare ?
by Lennie on Thu 6th Sep 2012 14:07 UTC
Lennie
Member since:
2007-09-22

Try finding a Nokia N950 developer phones, those are rare. You can find a N9 on EBay pretty easily.

Reply Score: 2

Disappointed..
by hagiz on Thu 6th Sep 2012 14:19 UTC
hagiz
Member since:
2006-01-24

Where is the WP8 phone with a hardware keyboard? Or a real pureview phone? This is the biggest let down from Nokia since not releasing the N950 to regular users and I hope for their sake they release more than these two phones before Christmas.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Disappointed..
by dukes on Thu 6th Sep 2012 21:21 UTC in reply to "Disappointed.."
dukes Member since:
2005-07-06

Where is the WP8 phone with a hardware keyboard? Or a real pureview phone? This is the biggest let down from Nokia since not releasing the N950 to regular users and I hope for their sake they release more than these two phones before Christmas.


This is a real pureview phone. It just doesn't have the 41MP camera sensor. Choosing the 8MP sensor instead keeps the phone slimmer.

Have you seen the 8MP picture examples from the 808 PureView. Amazing!

I expect the 920 to be no different.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Disappointed..
by dsmogor on Fri 7th Sep 2012 06:20 UTC in reply to "RE: Disappointed.."
dsmogor Member since:
2005-09-01

You can't fool the physics. Wider and longer aperture are nice but that will not make up for larger sensor.
I expect lumia photos to have an edge in low light portraits noise wise (compared to stock 8mp) but in the details department there's no comparison to 808 (and I guess even N8).
In mobile videos OIS is a very nice addition though. Nokia is still ahead of competition but it's far cry from the breakthrough 808 was.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Disappointed..
by Nelson on Fri 7th Sep 2012 06:25 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Disappointed.."
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

The 808 is still in a league of its own, but at the Nokia event they snapped some pictures right in front of us and the results were absolutely stunning.

I'd say a leapfrog over anything but the 808 (never used an N8 so can't comment)

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Disappointed..
by dsmogor on Fri 7th Sep 2012 06:56 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Disappointed.."
dsmogor Member since:
2005-09-01

If so I cannot understand why in the world they made themselves into the fake sample movie and photos blunder.
Even Google managed to make mediocre GN camera look awesome using *real* material.
What were they thinking? That bloggers are idiots? I'm afraid not the bloggers.

Reply Score: 2

Branding and Engineering
by libray on Thu 6th Sep 2012 16:12 UTC
libray
Member since:
2005-08-27

The Lumia name means nothing to English speakers. The version number scheme is not good marketing with that.

Nokia chose form over function with a shiny casing instead of a matte one. The first purchase for the colorful designs will be a matte case so your phone does not slide, or to protect it, leaving the choice of color irrelevant.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Branding and Engineering
by Drumhellar on Thu 6th Sep 2012 20:59 UTC in reply to "Branding and Engineering"
Drumhellar Member since:
2005-07-12

The Lumia name means nothing to English speakers.


Do you mean the word itself? I thought it sounds enough like 'Luminous' to invoke a positive image.

Or, do you mean as a product name? In that case, you're right...

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Branding and Engineering
by libray on Thu 6th Sep 2012 22:00 UTC in reply to "RE: Branding and Engineering"
libray Member since:
2005-08-27

I mean as a product name. If Nokia is copying the success of smartphones from Apple and android manufacturer (slab, no keyboard, few buttons) then create a name that is universal ( I(nternet) Phone) or awesome (galaxy, nexus, droid).

The sub name (version) is less important in those phones since a consumer knows how to express they want the latest "droid", or latest "iphone".

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Branding and Engineering
by daedalus on Fri 7th Sep 2012 12:41 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Branding and Engineering"
daedalus Member since:
2011-01-14

I have heard that the "i" in "iPhone" stands for internet before, but I really doubt that was the original intention. To me, iPhone is the obvious name for a phone version of the iPod, and the "i" in iPod certainly doesn't stand for internet...

Reply Score: 1

HOLY CRAP MUST WATCH
by cchance on Thu 6th Sep 2012 16:35 UTC
cchance
Member since:
2006-02-24

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFhhBJ1URCg&feature=player_embedded

Proof is in the showing and HOLY CRAP that 920 is amazing!

Reply Score: 2

RE: HOLY CRAP MUST WATCH
by dsmogor on Fri 7th Sep 2012 06:43 UTC in reply to "HOLY CRAP MUST WATCH"
dsmogor Member since:
2005-09-01

The guy with the other phone clearly didn't know how to use it to make photos ;) . First he didn't turned on AF guidance using the led, second, he didn't use low light profile.

The challenge wasn't even properly arranged. Having a small window to dark room allows one to rest his/hers hands on the lower edge, thus nullifying the whole OIS advantage. It was just asking for somebody with a clue to embarrass them.

Edited 2012-09-07 07:00 UTC

Reply Score: 2

Design, schmesign
by No it isnt on Thu 6th Sep 2012 18:03 UTC
No it isnt
Member since:
2005-11-14

I've got the N9, which is solid and designed to look rather nice. But it's slippery and not all that pocket friendly, which I suspect is not the case for the somewhat uglier-looking SGS3. A phone is more than a fashion accessory, it's a rather expensive tool. I'd like it to behave like one, i.e. safe in my hand and out of the way in my pocket.

Reply Score: 2

quackalist
Member since:
2007-08-27

"We started with the premise that we wanted an uncompromised physical form," Shields told us. "To put an SD card slot in it would have defiled it."

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/376750/nokia-memory-card-slot-would-hav...

Wanker

Reply Score: 3

Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

The phone has 32gb of internal storage, plus 7gb of Sky drive (25gb in my case because I was grandfathered in)

Plus you can also stream mixes of music for free from Nokia Music, or get all you can eat subscription music from Zune Pass and stream selectively there.

Contacts, Calendars, Emails, Photos, Music, Videos, Text, Apps, and probably more already lives in the cloud, so for me an SD card is useless.

I'm glad they have an appreciation for the seamless poly carbonate design and refused to compromise on it.

Reply Score: 2

tylerdurden Member since:
2009-03-17

Oh marketing; "seamless poly carbonate design" sounds so much better than "plastic cover."

Reply Score: 4

Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

The 920 is unibody polycarbonate. Solid plastic with the same color all the way through, meaning if it scratches you can hardly tell. Its a much higher grade material.

It feels extremely good in hand, and decidedly unplasticky.

This isn't your Galaxy S III plastic that Samsung loves so much, this is premium stuff with a premium feel.

There are videos of the Lumia devices being used as hammers, or withstanding huge falls.

Reply Score: 3

tylerdurden Member since:
2009-03-17

A piece of plastic of one color you say??? What kind of science fiction year 3000 bullsh*t is that?

Given how it is a product that has not been released yet... I imagine that plastic must feel really good; light as air and strong as reinforced concrete.

In any case, I'm glad to see Nokia/Microsoft finally learning a thing or two from Apple's astroturfing manual. Hopefully these are the devices that finally put Nokia back in a good position, they really need it.

Reply Score: 1

Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

Are you inebriated? The polycarbonate is also present on the released Lumia 800, 900, and on the Nokia N9. ANY owner or these devices will tell you its Cyan, or Black, or Red all the way through.

And I, unlike you, actually CAN comment on the Lumia 920s feel because I actually held one at last nights Nokia NYC event I attended. Feels identical to my Lumia.

I don't know if you're just being stupid or, well, no, that's it, there's no alternative, you're just being stupid.

Edited 2012-09-06 20:56 UTC

Reply Score: 4

tylerdurden Member since:
2009-03-17

LOL, I assume either your humor/sarcasm is broken or perhaps the whole thing about astroturfing hit too close for comfort, didn't it?


Anyhow, arguments to authority on the internet are silly. I too was at the New York event, err I mean I read internet tech blogs and I saw the pics... (relax, don't get your panties all in a twist!) The phone looks beautiful and it is clearly different from android/apple offerings, monochromatic plastic and all.

Edited 2012-09-06 22:50 UTC

Reply Score: 1

Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

Its not an argument to authority, its common sense. If you've never held one, or one comparable (Lumia 800/900 or N9), how can you even begin to comment on how it feels in hand?

Reply Score: 3

Dekonega
Member since:
2009-07-28

Everybody who I personally know and who are in the business just hate Windows Phone smartphones. There are so much missing functionality you had or have with Symbian and N9's Meego, and Android and iOS that it makes no sense for anyone to own a Windows Phone device.

In fact some dude made up a list of 121 reasons why you should avoid Windows Phone (7.5) as much as you can. And most embarrassing things are that there's no way you could have a local computer, cloud-free, address book, VPN connections, Bluetooth file transfer or filters for call history into missed calls, received calls, dialled calls, and so on.

http://my-symbian.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=44034

Just avoid Windows Phone. It's horrible shit based on my own experiences and experiences of others. The fact that Nokia's stock took -16% deep dive is a completely natural reaction for their new Windows Phone devices.

Edited 2012-09-06 18:32 UTC

Reply Score: 0

WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

It's horrible shit based on my own experiences and experiences of others.


I actually know a lot of people who are more than happy with their Lumias. Granted, these people are not geeks; they're Average Janes and are not looking for the same things in phones as we are.

Reply Score: 5

Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

101 (stupid, pointless, or otherwise useless) reasons that (a fairly limited amount of very specific) people hate Windows Phone. Gotcha

Reply Score: 3

Dekonega Member since:
2009-07-28

101 (stupid, pointless, or otherwise useless) reasons that (a fairly limited amount of very specific) people hate Windows Phone. Gotcha


Wrong. There are more than 121 reasons (Apparently you didn't read the list or the post at all).

Are you completely sure that people don't need features like...

108. No bluetooth file transfer.
109. Cannot handle USSD codes necessary for prepaid users to obtain services.
110. Cannot filter call history into Missed Calls, Received Calls, Dialled Calls, Recent Calls, etc.
111. No way to backup or export call history.
112. Does not show call duration in call history.
113. No way to edit MMS profile for Operators in the OS. Need an app which is not available in all markets
114. Call history does not group calls by contact.
115. Call history does not show the time of call for calls older than current day.
116. Cannot set custom sounds for different types of notifications.
117. No ringer profiles.
118. Cannot send/receive contact as a csv file.
119. Cannot backup contacts to PC, only to SkyDrive
120. Cannot backup sms at all, not even to SkyDrive
121. Cannot save contact to SIM card.
122. Cannot change alarm ring tone or use a MP3 file.
123. Cannot set alarm snooze interval.


It doesn't matter if you're a geek or not. I think that these things are damn essential for a phone. Every current Symbian device has these things. Meego/Harmattan does these things too. Damn, even the cheapest 10€ Chinese dumb phones have these features. So why Windows Phone devices cannot have them?

By the way, my favourite "feature" in Windows Phone is that if you're talking to a phone and you receive a SMS then the WP device will make you deaf.

Reply Score: 2

Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

Not only are a shit load of the items on that list addressed by Windows Phone 8, but some are even addressed by Nokia themselves as OEM apps.

The list is stupid though. Anyone could come up with a million reasons to hate a platform. Doesn't make them good reasons.

Reply Score: 3

Dekonega Member since:
2009-07-28

Not only are a shit load of the items on that list addressed by Windows Phone 8, but some are even addressed by Nokia themselves as OEM apps.

The list is stupid though. Anyone could come up with a million reasons to hate a platform. Doesn't make them good reasons.


It's a valid list of things missing from Windows Phone. Look, Nokia did far better job themselves with N9 hardware and software than what they've done with Lumias built around Microsoft's Windows Phone.

To me it sounds like you're saying that everything is fine, and that OEM & 3rd party applications will complete the missing core functionality, and that Windows Phone 8, Windows Phone 9, Windows Phone 10, etc. is sure to address any core flaw the platform has? (facepalm)

If the situation was like you say, then why Samsung sold like more than 20 million GS3s just in 3 months. Nokia has only managed to ship 7 million Lumia devices combined in since they started selling them.

http://www.theverge.com/2012/7/19/3169153/nokia-lumia-sales-4-milli...

Why Nokia isn't selling Lumia devices like hot cakes? Why Nokia's N9 sold better than any Lumia device despite Nokia restricted seriously its sales? The truth is that Windows Phone doesn't cut it out and Nokia will go down with the Windows Phone with boots on. I'm going to be very happy to see that happen.

You don't know exactly what issues Windows Phone 8 will fix and what it won't since it's not out yet. Claiming that "it will shit load of things Windows Phone 8 will address" is BS until proven otherwise. So far there are only few things we know for certain that are fixed in Windows Phone 8. Some of which I already mentioned in my other post.

The way you put out that "anyone can come up with a million reasons to hate a platform" sounds like in your opinion there are no good reasons to avoid Windows Phone. I'm like offering my opinions here and opinions of others and I'm at least trying to base off these things on facts, and you're like not even trying to pick these things up for a conversation. Personally, I'm going to interpret that as a fanboyism.

And to balance things out a little bit. I like the Windows Phone UI. It's pretty. (But it's complex to dive into [doesn't mean it's difficult to use], and has serious usability flaws.)

Reply Score: 0

Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

Its a list. Just not necessarily a good one. I could come up with genuine consumer facing limitations that they'd actually be annoyed with. Not niche kitchen sink features that serve little purpose other than to be ticked off of some imaginary sheet.


To me it sounds like you're saying that everything is fine, and that OEM & 3rd party applications will complete the missing core functionality, and that Windows Phone 8, Windows Phone 9, Windows Phone 10, etc. is sure to address any core flaw the platform has? (facepalm)


That's not what I said at all, which is interesting, because you accused me of not being able to read.


If the situation was like you say, then why Samsung sold like more than 20 million GS3s just in 3 months. Nokia has only managed to ship 7 million Lumia devices combined in since they started selling them.


The lack of Windows Phone sales as a whole is a channel problem, not a core OS issue. There is a lot of friction between Microsoft, OEMs, and Carriers. Also RSPs are not educated or incentivized enough.

Consumers do not buy things. Consumers are sold things. The retail channel matters in a big way for mobile phones. Especially in the US.

Why Nokia's N9 sold better than any Lumia device despite Nokia restricted seriously its sales?


False. This actually turned out to be a huge lie. A lie convenient for you, but I hope you stop repeating it.


You don't know exactly what issues Windows Phone 8 will fix and what it won't since it's not out yet. Claiming that "it will shit load of things Windows Phone 8 will address" is BS until proven otherwise. So far there are only few things we know for certain that are fixed in Windows Phone 8. Some of which I already mentioned in my other post.


Actually, a leaked SDK is out with a full emulator, so yeah, actually, I do have a pretty good idea of what will be in WP8. Maybe if you spent less time regurgitating the N9 outsold Lumia FUD you'd be aware of the fact.


The way you put out that "anyone can come up with a million reasons to hate a platform" sounds like in your opinion there are no good reasons to avoid Windows Phone. I'm like offering my opinions here and opinions of others and I'm at least trying to base off these things on facts, and you're like not even trying to pick these things up for a conversation. Personally, I'm going to interpret that as a fanboyism.

And to balance things out a little bit. I like the Windows Phone UI. It's pretty. (But it's complex to dive into [doesn't mean it's difficult to use], and has serious usability flaws.)


This entire diatribe was stupid. Next comment leave crap like this out please. I spend the time reading your posts, don't insult my intelligence by filling them with fluff.

Edited 2012-09-07 06:19 UTC

Reply Score: 3

Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

Is there a source that shows that the Lumia has sold better than the N9? I hadn't heard that.

Reply Score: 2

Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

So your line of reasoning (and let me see if I follow) is that "N9 has outsold Lumia because you can't prove it hasn't" ?

Unreal.

Reply Score: 3

Dekonega Member since:
2009-07-28

That's not what I said at all, which is interesting, because you accused me of not being able to read.


*Ahem* I wrote "To me it sounds like". I didn't wrote "So you're saying"...

The lack of Windows Phone sales as a whole is a channel problem, not a core OS issue. There is a lot of friction between Microsoft, OEMs, and Carriers. Also RSPs are not educated or incentivized enough.

Consumers do not buy things. Consumers are sold things. The retail channel matters in a big way for mobile phones. Especially in the US.


It's not a sales chain / sales channel problem. You're retelling me now what Stephen Elop told people. And that's just another one of his lies in my opinion.

Nokia has the largest sales chain in the world. Or at least they used to have. But they still have remarkably strong retail sales chain as a World's current #2 and previous #1 phone seller.

I've made a point before in this thread that there are problems within core Windows Phone why people don't want to have it. There's an easy way to consider about the issue.

Since Nokia's sales chain really is the strongest or at least one of the strongest in the whole world. If a product doesn't sell like hot cakes through it, it effectively means that nobody wants to have it.

You're seriously underestimating intelligence of consumers. While what you say, can be seen participially true, however, it's not the complete picture. What supports your argument is that Lumias as a whole were indeed sold seven million units. But when we compare it to the numbers of earlier Nokia devices, which sold millions of units alone... (sigh)

No matter how bad Symbian usability was it performed well in all areas it was made for, and it did everything people wanted from it. For example N8 sold four million units when in a same time frame Lumia 800 sold less than a million.

My point is that people buy things based on what they need. And they do not need Windows Phone devices since those devices don't fill the needs of the people. It's an core OS issue. Even now when Nokia collected wide range of good words about their Lumia 820 and 920 hardware design. Not so much about as a single good word from their decision to use Microsoft's software. In fact mostly it was just about wordings like "Big question mark seems to be the Windows Phone 8", at least in Finnish media.

Nokia's prediction of 37 million sold Lumia devices by 2012 was pure insanity. That is something what they could have expected to have if next generation of Symbian devices were to be launched instead. None of the existing Symbian owners were able to move to Windows Phone devices of Nokia since Windows Phone lacks seriously in functionality and doesn't perform even some of the basic stuff iOS, Android and Symbian do.

Besides the funny small fact here is that Symbian shipments apparently where in a notable rise before Nokia announced their move to Windows Phone in February 2011. After said Q1 2011, Symbian shipments took a dive.

http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/item/14122_Nokia_Q4_2011-in_the...

My opinion is that if Elop had not announced Nokia's move to Windows Phone, they would still have #1 smartphone platform in the world. This "Elop effect" is a good way to explain what happens when CEO of the world's largest phone manufacturer first causes "Ratner effect" by saying that their "platform is burning" (which it wasn't), and then causes "Osborne Effect" by announcing a year ahead move to Windows Phone when they don't have a product to sell to people.

And then Microsoft causes "Osborne Effect" again by announcing Windows Phone 8 to be released later at the same year when Nokia finally got their flagships out of the house. And that those flagship models cannot be by decision of a Microsoft to be upgraded to the Windows Phone 8.

Elop has failed as a CEO, mission critical task he was given, in a worst way possible in my opinion. And choosing incapable smartphone platform is an epic mistake based on what we currently know.

I think that Nokia should have sticked to Symbian and continued its development towards more competitive platform, and should have lowered their price points for their products. All of their market share leaked to Android and Android is now #1 platform.

False. This actually turned out to be a huge lie. A lie convenient for you, but I hope you stop repeating it.


It's not a lie. Although that's what Stephen Elop would like you to believe about it. Bill here was helpful enough to talk about this issue.

http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2012/01/how-many-lumia...

And while it's true that N9 sales data has not been released. And we cannot know exactly how much was sold. It is very interesting that Nokia has refused to comment sales of N9 and declined to disclose the N9 sales data. If N9 sold poorly, it would have given them another reason to support their reasoning to move to Windows Phone. However if MeeGo/Harmattan sold exceedingly well, it would eat that reasoning behind the move to Windows Phone...

However, before the Windows Phone announcement, Nokia N9 was most sold phone in those areas it was released at. For example in Finland...

http://www.neowin.net/news/nokia-n9-outsells-all-other-phones-in-fi...


Actually, a leaked SDK is out with a full emulator, so yeah, actually, I do have a pretty good idea of what will be in WP8. Maybe if you spent less time regurgitating the N9 outsold Lumia FUD you'd be aware of the fact.


I knew about it since it was reported widely. However I think it's an incomplete SDK with a non-feature complete OS in an emulator. It's made for selected developers so that they can see some of the core features aimed for the developers. If it was complete and done, then logically they'd have already released the complete thing to everybody to enable rapid early development for the Windows Phone 8.

Microsoft certainly isn't going to reveal their full feature set for Windows Phone 8 until it's officially launched. And when it is, I'll be sure to pick it up from:

https://dev.windowsphone.com/en-us/featured/windows-phone-8-sdk

However since you seem more knowledgeable about this. Can you tell more about how Windows Phone 8 is going to issue the list of Windows Phone issues I've linked and talked about here? And other possible handy additions to the functionality of the Windows Phone 8 itself?

Edited 2012-09-09 17:24 UTC

Reply Score: 1

Drumhellar Member since:
2005-07-12

I agree with a couple of those (no constant signal/battery indicator), but most of those are issues that actually effect very few people, are non-issues, or apply to other smartphones as well.

Having been using 7.5 for a while, I am very satisfied.

Reply Score: 2

Dekonega Member since:
2009-07-28

I agree with a couple of those (no constant signal/battery indicator), but most of those are issues that actually effect very few people, are non-issues, or apply to other smartphones as well.

Having been using 7.5 for a while, I am very satisfied.


I do disagree with some of the items in that list. For example I don't believe that a communications device doesn't need to have an equaliser built-in with the default media player (as long as 3rd party application creators can make it happen later on).

80. No equalizer for Zune music player.


Reason 80 is a bit too demanding (although for example iOS comes with built-in equalizer settings.) It's not a standard thing to come with every smarthphone OS. Although it can be widely found. And I understand that some things were software bugs within Lumia line itself like reason 105.

105. Cannot be charged up when battery is flat. (Lumia specific)
.
(It has been fixed to my knowledge by now.)

And things that Microsoft is going to address in Windows Phone 8. For example:

24. Tiles are fixed size and for many functions is a waste of space.


Microsoft also now promises to give at least 24 months of major upgrades before next major revision which to current models cannot upgrade. This starts with the WP8.

However the fact is that WP7 devices cannot be upgraded to 8, and it's just a huge betrayal. It's just not comprehensible since Nokia's Lumia 900 buyers like were betrayed the worst possible way. Early adopters/buyers are the people who advertise the product to others. No-WP8-upgrade had huge negative impact to Nokia's reputation and now they essentially have to rebuild that trust. And it's not just Nokia's issue.

I do think that there are serious issues with Windows Phone devices. For example reason:

99. Phone cannot be charged when off.


Which have to be issued in Windows Phone 8, or it'll be an epic fail. For example this problem has been around since Zune media players. Why Microsoft hasn't fixed it already?

What about usability issues?

19. Alarm clock cannot work when phone is turned off. All Nokia Symbian and Meego phones can do this.

95. Wi-fi disconnects when screen sleeps.


And just some weird stuff like:

13. Cannot sync directly with Outlook without syncing to Cloud.


The sync options are just obscure and difficult to comprehend, or just plain privacy violations. If I buy a phone, why should I be forced to make a pact with the software maker to give all my personal information to their servers outside my country's jurisdiction?

Makes no sense at all.

It's easy to buy iPhone or any Android device since they have all the stuff people actually need and want. Making the conscious decision to leave the Windows Phone out of the picture is even easier.

Reply Score: 1

tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

Not allowing WP7 phones to upgrade to WP8 is a "huge betrayal"? Get a grip. How many carriers upgrade your phone--ever? Most phones are obsolete the moment you buy them, and they're quickly orphaned by the carrier. Besides, most of the older devices do not meet the minimum specs for WP8 certification; hence, it doesn't even make sense to offer an upgrade that would actually downgrade your experience.

Reply Score: 2

Dekonega Member since:
2009-07-28

Not allowing WP7 phones to upgrade to WP8 is a "huge betrayal"? Get a grip. How many carriers upgrade your phone--ever? Most phones are obsolete the moment you buy them, and they're quickly orphaned by the carrier. Besides, most of the older devices do not meet the minimum specs for WP8 certification; hence, it doesn't even make sense to offer an upgrade that would actually downgrade your experience.


First of all, carriers never do upgrades for the phones, manufacturers do. And if you live in EU you can always install the upgrades manufacturers release for the devices. It's not restricted in anyway. Same with the most of the Asia to my knowledge. Only USA's carriers seem to be so dumb that they actually limit the upgrade possibilities.

And just to answer your question. Every single Symbian update released for my Symbian devices, I've gotten them all. I've also gotten all the updates for my N9. And I got tons of upgrades for my HTC Android devices including the 2.3.3 update for HTC Desire.

I recognize your point about that some earlier devices might not be able to run Windows Phone 8. However I made a point about how a phone that was released like few months ago, that was touted to be the biggest, the latest and the best, was abandoned before it ever managed to even hit the marketplace.

Besides to my understanding Lumia 800 and Lumia 900 are perfectly capable of running Windows Phone 8. And that they could run the latest software for Windows Phone 8.

Especially in my opinion people who bought Lumia 900 were tricked and that's not a way to treat a customers. You can just imagine what kind of image that gives out of the company doing that.

In German the larges carrier around (T-Mobile) stopped selling Lumia 900 as a result of this move. And in many places Lumia 900 found it self to be in a discount and to be sold with just 1€ euro.

T-Mobile did the right call. They didn't want to hear from their customers that they were tricked. They protected their own reputation. And who can blame them? Nokia and Microsoft tricked everyone who bought Lumia 900.

There isn't a sales chain problem within Windows Phone ecosystem. Nokia has/had the world's largest sales chain. If it doesn't sell, it effectively means that nobody wants to have it. The Problem is that nobody wants to buy Windows Phones due shit like this.

Edited 2012-09-09 14:28 UTC

Reply Score: 1

tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

Your response was complete bullshit. Here in the US, carriers control when update rollouts occur.

Reply Score: 2

Dekonega Member since:
2009-07-28

Here in the US, carriers control when update rollouts occur.


I know that. I wrote a line about it in my previous message to you. It's wrong that carriers [in USA] have that kind of control over what you buy. It shouldn't be like that. You're buying a service from them and that's all. Any device should work in any network without any artificial restrictions.

The way three largest communication companies in USA operate reminds me of a cartel. They're holding back their customers and restricting their legal rights with a various agreements (especially AT&T). It's bad for customers, it's bad for competing businesses, and it's definitely morally wrong.

Edited 2012-09-09 18:43 UTC

Reply Score: 1

lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

Actually our mobile dev team, think the WP7 phones are really good, they don't like the web browser soo much ;)

Reply Score: 2

I'm from Finland
by Mellin on Thu 6th Sep 2012 20:40 UTC
Mellin
Member since:
2005-07-06

And i do not want anything to do with Nokia and Windows

Reply Score: 3

RE: I'm from Finland
by dukes on Thu 6th Sep 2012 21:17 UTC in reply to "I'm from Finland"
dukes Member since:
2005-07-06

You could have just ended with "I'm from Finland". It would have explained your hatred. Also the hatred of everyone else in here from the region.

Nokia's ties with the country is very well documented. Thanks very much for regurgitating your broken heart relationship.

It over guys... move on with your lives.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: I'm from Finland
by Mellin on Thu 6th Sep 2012 21:48 UTC in reply to "RE: I'm from Finland"
Mellin Member since:
2005-07-06

I do not hate Finland you idiot!

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: I'm from Finland
by Mellin on Fri 7th Sep 2012 18:08 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: I'm from Finland"
Mellin Member since:
2005-07-06

downvoting doesn't change anything! so you who is fallowing me around and downvoting get a life!

Edited 2012-09-07 18:11 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: I'm from Finland
by MOS6510 on Sat 8th Sep 2012 09:41 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: I'm from Finland"
MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

Funny enough 49% of your votes are of the negative kind, but then again so are most of your comments.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: I'm from Finland
by Mellin on Sun 9th Sep 2012 17:28 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: I'm from Finland"
Mellin Member since:
2005-07-06

Troll!!

Edited 2012-09-09 17:28 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: I'm from Finland
by MOS6510 on Sun 9th Sep 2012 17:54 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: I'm from Finland"
MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

Just stating a fact, but I'm not sure you understand anything people write.

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: I'm from Finland
by Mellin on Sun 9th Sep 2012 20:39 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: I'm from Finland"
Mellin Member since:
2005-07-06

You are a troll and that's a fact! (i do not discuss with trolls)

Reply Score: 2

Comment by shmerl
by shmerl on Thu 6th Sep 2012 21:59 UTC
shmerl
Member since:
2010-06-08

A pity high quality Nokia hardware design went a different path from their Linux efforts. Good bye Nokia, your design will be missed.

Reply Score: 1

Uh.
by Thom_Holwerda on Thu 6th Sep 2012 22:02 UTC
Thom_Holwerda
Member since:
2005-06-29

Well, this thread escalated quickly.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Uh.
by Neolander on Fri 7th Sep 2012 09:48 UTC in reply to "Uh."
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

Well, let's see what's in the article...

-Nokia
-Cellphone cameras
-Abusing a successful brand (PureView)
-Microsoft
-Cellphone OSs
-The need for competitors to iOS and Android
-Windows
-Windows Phone
-Windows Phone 8
-Industrial design
-Apple products
-Apple's declining design inspiration

That was quite a lot of troll bait if you ask me ;)

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Uh.
by Radio on Fri 7th Sep 2012 14:13 UTC in reply to "RE: Uh."
Radio Member since:
2009-06-20

Notice how PureView is already seem as "a successful brand", even while being launched only on one (1) Symbian (!) phone, in 2012.

Reply Score: 1

Google Nexus forever...
by cmost on Fri 7th Sep 2012 01:47 UTC
cmost
Member since:
2006-07-16

I for one will only use Google's Nexus devices as they're the only ones not screwed up by the carriers. I wouldn't use an Apple device is someone held a gun to my head. Using a Windows powered device is completely and utterly out of the question. I don't care if it can turn water into wine.

Edited 2012-09-07 01:48 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE: Google Nexus forever...
by shmerl on Fri 7th Sep 2012 03:42 UTC in reply to "Google Nexus forever..."
shmerl Member since:
2010-06-08

N9 is pretty carrier influence free. That's the last real Linux handset that came out. Hopefully Jolla will release one next year.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Google Nexus forever...
by tomcat on Sat 8th Sep 2012 17:52 UTC in reply to "Google Nexus forever..."
tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

I for one will only use Google's Nexus devices as they're the only ones not screwed up by the carriers. I wouldn't use an Apple device is someone held a gun to my head. Using a Windows powered device is completely and utterly out of the question. I don't care if it can turn water into wine.


Nexus models were never meant to last forever. Obsolescence was built into their DNA. After they were done attacking ships off the shoulder of Orion, they die. The candle that burns twice as bright burns half as long... :-p

Reply Score: 2

looks like an ipod nano..
by Netfun81 on Fri 7th Sep 2012 02:35 UTC
Netfun81
Member since:
2008-03-25

whats this about some unique look? looks like a large ipod nano. WP8 looks yuck. Get one while they last..

http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/12/09/06/1228244/nokia-apologizes-...

Reply Score: 1

So much about the colored plastic
by barcodex on Fri 7th Sep 2012 10:39 UTC
barcodex
Member since:
2010-06-28

There is a thriving industry of covers for those boring iOS and Android bricks. It provides bread and butter for hundreds companies that do design in the first place. Seriously, ladies can choose different iPhone covers to match their clothes and accessories (if they want to), not just their lipsticks. For many, phone brick is a commodity, it's like a motor in your car (it does not need to be pretty).

Reply Score: 2

tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

There is a thriving industry of covers for those boring iOS and Android bricks. It provides bread and butter for hundreds companies that do design in the first place. Seriously, ladies can choose different iPhone covers to match their clothes and accessories (if they want to), not just their lipsticks. For many, phone brick is a commodity, it's like a motor in your car (it does not need to be pretty).


That's an excellent point. People like to customize. I don't. To me, a phone -- even the best of them -- is a boring appliance. But never underestimate the number of idiots out there who want the latest crap shoveled at them by Apple, Google, etc. And further, who want to add some ridiculous bling cover with Hello Kittys or Ninjas or D&G or anime crap. Honestly, I realize that a lot of people are trapped on this consumer treadmill, but it is incredibly boring.

Reply Score: 2

Lanyard attachment points!
by SteveHardyHastings on Fri 7th Sep 2012 14:53 UTC
SteveHardyHastings
Member since:
2012-09-07

What amazes me is that on these phones (I'm a Galaxy Note owner, sorry…) there is nowhere to attach a lanyard. All cameras have attachment points, phones are often dropped, phones are often cameras, it must require a brian the size of a planet to figure out this user friendly feature. Or perhaps it's just not patentable…

Steve

Reply Score: 2

RE: Lanyard attachment points!
by tomcat on Sat 8th Sep 2012 17:38 UTC in reply to "Lanyard attachment points!"
tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

What amazes me is that on these phones (I'm a Galaxy Note owner, sorry…) there is nowhere to attach a lanyard. All cameras have attachment points, phones are often dropped, phones are often cameras, it must require a brian the size of a planet to figure out this user friendly feature. Or perhaps it's just not patentable…

Steve


Uh, seriously, do you see people walking around with lanyards on their phones? I don't.

Reply Score: 2

Comment by krreagan
by krreagan on Sat 8th Sep 2012 13:44 UTC
krreagan
Member since:
2008-04-08

"We basically see one boring slab after another, void of any true identity"

Wow Thom I actually have to agree with you... Since everyone else (Samsung, HTC, Google...) has been copying the iPhone instead of coming up with their own designs , they do look the same. You just validated Apples design lawsuits. Now if these other companies would get off their collective asses and do some original design, we might actually have more choices.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Comment by krreagan
by tomcat on Sat 8th Sep 2012 17:40 UTC in reply to "Comment by krreagan"
tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

"We basically see one boring slab after another, void of any true identity"

Wow Thom I actually have to agree with you... Since everyone else (Samsung, HTC, Google...) has been copying the iPhone instead of coming up with their own designs , they do look the same. You just validated Apples design lawsuits. Now if these other companies would get off their collective asses and do some original design, we might actually have more choices.


You obviously offended the Apple and Google fanboys who see rounded corners and grids of icons as the ultimate in industrial design. Meh. Talk about boring. WP runs circles around these clowns.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by krreagan
by krreagan on Sat 8th Sep 2012 19:10 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by krreagan"
krreagan Member since:
2008-04-08

Personally I dispise the wp interface and Nokia's phones look like the phones attached to my little kids play kitchen... Butt ugly plastic toys.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Comment by krreagan
by tomcat on Sun 9th Sep 2012 03:56 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by krreagan"
tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

Personally I dispise the wp interface and Nokia's phones look like the phones attached to my little kids play kitchen... Butt ugly plastic toys.


Of course you despise it. You have bad taste. But don't feel too bad. Youve got plenty of company with other Andr01d and iPhone fanb0yz.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Comment by krreagan
by krreagan on Sun 9th Sep 2012 22:10 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by krreagan"
krreagan Member since:
2008-04-08

We'll see in 6 months when Nokia punts MS or tries another "revolutionary" phone release. Nokia tied itself to one big freak'n anchor that will pull it into the muddy abyss where it will have to sell it's patents to pay off the creditors (or MS).

It's only hope is for the MS board to see Balmer for the failure he is, and replace him with someone that actually has a clue. But I'm not optimistic.

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Comment by krreagan
by tomcat on Sun 9th Sep 2012 22:52 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by krreagan"
tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

We'll see in 6 months when Nokia punts MS or tries another "revolutionary" phone release. Nokia tied itself to one big freak'n anchor that will pull it into the muddy abyss where it will have to sell it's patents to pay off the creditors (or MS).

It's only hope is for the MS board to see Balmer for the failure he is, and replace him with someone that actually has a clue. But I'm not optimistic.


Clueless. Whether or not you want to admit it, Windows Phone OS is the most innovative and design-rich platform on the market today. I don't care for Ballmer that much but his presence has little to nothing to do with the quality of WP. Blame him for not advancing distribution, if you will, but that's about it.

Reply Score: 2

Price
by nej_simon on Sun 9th Sep 2012 08:44 UTC
nej_simon
Member since:
2011-02-11

Some people have commented that there is no information about the price or availability. Well, you can actually pre-order the phones from some online retailers, such as the german hoh.de. They sell the Lumia 820 for 449€ and the 920 for 599€. Both are too expensive IMO.

Reply Score: 2

As a Lumia 900 owner...
by frostbyte on Sun 9th Sep 2012 20:07 UTC
frostbyte
Member since:
2012-02-08

... Who just sent it in to Nokia Care for a failed USB data connection (don't ask me how or why, nothing would recognize the device), I'm not even slightly upset I won't be able to upgrade to WP8. Not at all. See, I bought the phone thinking I'm getting the latest and greatest for WP7.5, a "mature" OS, not some raw, half-baked goody like WP8. No, I don't want an upgrade to WP8 at all.

Said a Lumia 900 owner never.

Reply Score: 1

am I missing something?
by smkudelko on Sun 9th Sep 2012 21:36 UTC
smkudelko
Member since:
2012-04-03

Let me start off by saying that I would like to see Windows Phone 8 and Nokia succeed. My father and sister have been loyal Nokia customers for years (although my sister did just get an iPhone 4S recently), and I like to see a healthy industry with options for consumers, room for plenty of developers, and a lot of platforms and devices for people like me to play around with.

I've used Motorola devices, the first 4 iPhones, the first Motorola Droid, a BlackBerry Curve, the god-awful original BlackBerry Storm, and the HP/Palm Veer 4G. My current phone is an HTC Evo Design 4G running Android 4.0. I like to switch my mobile device often so that I have working knowledge of all the current platforms since my clients depend on me being able to recommend the right products for their needs and also help them with any issues they have.

I had quite a few of the Windows CE powered "Pocket PC" handhelds back when PDAs were the thing. I absolutely hated them. I always felt like Microsoft tried way too hard to make those devices behave like desktop Windows and should have designed a UI from scratch that was made for mobile devices. When Windows Phone 7 came out I was pretty intrigued. For a long time I tried to find a pre-paid carrier that offered a Windows Phone device or an unlocked device that would work with a pre-paid carrier. I never did find one. I wanted to play around with Windows Phone 7.5 but didn't want to replace my primary mobile.

A few months ago I was at an AT&T store and played around with one of the Nokia devices and one from another manufacturer. I thought the UI looked good, but I didn't think it was very easy to use. (This is just my opinion --- I use a lot of different platforms and I'm not being biased or stupid.... it just wasn't intuitive to me). While I'm not at all excited about Windows 8 (and I am kind of hoping it fails and Microsoft gets some humility), I am looking forward to Windows 8.

However, I don't understand what people are so impressed with these new Nokia phones. Honestly, I don't see what makes them so different. I'm not calling them a copy-cat, and I'm not saying that Android or iOS devices are better looking or more unique..... a phone is a phone. But from what I can see, their devices have rounded edges and come in bright colors. Holy shit! What's so amazing about this?

Shouldn't the buzz be about something substantial? Is there major improvement to the hardware? Is Windows Phone 8 going to spank the other phones when it launches? (I don't really know... these are legitimate questions, not sarcasm.) I remember seeing a commercial for the first Lumia with WP7 that aired here in the US. This guy sat down next to this girl and the narrator was telling him to show her his phone so she would notice him. Apparently light blue phones with curved edges get the juices flowing! The narrator said "scroll through the live tiles, then turn the phone so she can see the curved edges." That was it. "This phone has live tiles and curved edges... revolution!." The guy didn't even do anything with his phone, he just scrolled up and down the home screen. At least Apple and Samsung commercials show people actually doing something on their devices, not just scrolling back and forth over tiles.

Why is everyone making such a big deal over bright colors and round edges? That seems so superficial and lame.

I also don't understand what makes live tiles so awesome. In fact, I don't see what makes Live Tiles necessary on a mobile phone at all. When I want information from an app, I just open the app. It doesn’t take long, and I get much more information than I would from a small tile. But I don’t do this on a phone, and I really don’t know anyone else who does either. If I need to see what’s on my agenda for the day, I just tap and open the calendar app. If I want to check my inbox, I either open the e-mail app or slide open the notification area on iOS or Android.

When I’m on my mobile device, I’m in a different frame of mind. I am focusing on one thing at a time. There just isn’t any significant gain in productivity in going back to the Home or Start screen and staring at a small “live tile” instead of going to the Home screen and tapping to launch the app I’m interested in.

If Microsoft would have allowed Metro apps to run in the Desktop mode in Windows 8 (or even if they allowed you to dock a few live tiles to the side of the screen in Desktop mode, replacing the functionality of “Windows Gadgets” from Windows Vista and 7), I could see Live Tiles being somewhat useful. If I’m working on something and I want to quickly see if I have any messages in my inbox, or what the current temperature is outside, I could just glance over at the side of the screen and get back to work.

Instead of having to download and install specialized gadgets (which no one apparently cared to do since there were almost no useful gadgets for Vista or 7), by allowing a Metro app’s Tile to be docked to a sidebar, you could turn any Windows 8 app into a gadget. You could dock specific apps to the sidebar instead of pinning them to the Start menu and the Desktop mode and Metro mode would be better integrated. Add a tiny button to the Sidebar that throws you back to the Metro Start screen and it would be a better experience for a lot of users and allow every user to benefit from Metro, even the ones who are going to spend their entire time in Desktop mode working with non-Metro apps.

I'm really not trying to start an argument or say that Windows Phone sucks. I'd very much like to see it succeed, and even more I'd like to have some reasons as to what makes it great other than "it doesn't look anything like Android or iOS, and the home screen is made up of big squares, and if you use it on a Nokia phone you can pick up girls by showing her the super fucking amazing rounded edges on your bright red mobile."

To be honest, I think Microsoft should give up on competing with Android and iOS and instead use their partnership with Nokia to create what the Kin should have been. Go after the feature phone market with a smartphone OS. Microsoft can afford to subsidize the devices (so the carriers don't have to) and make up for it with Zune Pass, Xbox Live subscriptions, and royalties from app developers. Nokia can build their dumb phones off of a Windows CE core (which is a RTOS underneath and pretty reliable when it's stripped down) and make it easy to scale up their product line from your first dumb phone, to your feature phone, to your smart phone.

Regardless of what Nokia or Microsoft does, I would like to see both of them succeed (in the mobile space, at least). I just think that supporters of Windows Phone bash iPhone users for being sheep who blindly buy the next product, and then they rave about the color red and round edges. I hope there is more to be impressed by from WP8 and the new Lumias.

Reply Score: 1

RE: am I missing something?
by dsmogor on Mon 10th Sep 2012 11:29 UTC in reply to "am I missing something?"
dsmogor Member since:
2005-09-01


However, I don't understand what people are so impressed with these new Nokia phones. Honestly, I don't see what makes them so different. I'm not calling them a copy-cat, and I'm not saying that Android or iOS devices are better looking or more unique..... a phone is a phone. But from what I can see, their devices have rounded edges and come in bright colors. Holy shit! What's so amazing about this?
[\q]
In a world of black/white slabs a colourfull brick is a king ;) I agree though the bright color will get old fast, but they have their shot now.


[q]
Shouldn't the buzz be about something substantial? Is there major improvement to the hardware?

In the Windows world it indeed it, S4 is the best SOC on the market. The promise (yet unrealized) is WP8 allows ones from other producers (like A15) if better.


Is Windows Phone 8 going to spank the other phones when it launches? (I don't really know... these are legitimate questions, not sarcasm.) I remember seeing a commercial for the first Lumia with WP7 that aired here in the US. This guy sat down next to this girl and the narrator was telling him to show her his phone so she would notice him. Apparently light blue phones with curved edges get the juices flowing! The narrator said "scroll through the live tiles, then turn the phone so she can see the curved edges." That was it. "This phone has live tiles and curved edges... revolution!." The guy didn't even do anything with his phone, he just scrolled up and down the home screen. At least Apple and Samsung commercials show people actually doing something on their devices, not just scrolling back and forth over tiles.

Most people excited are either tired with Android quirks (not perfectly smooth scrolling comes first) or wanting another run of locked to the bottom ecosystem.
The commercial is in fact addressed to already convinced.
A lot of them are WP developers wanting their cosy MS relationship to start bearing fruits in the mobile world. Or unsuccessful Android devs wanting to make name for themselves on rapidly growing new platform.

Why is everyone making such a big deal over bright colors and round edges? That seems so superficial and lame.

I believe this comes directly from MS brought conviction about the superiority of the Metro design.

I also don't understand what makes live tiles so awesome.
In fact, I don't see what makes Live Tiles necessary on a mobile phone at all. When I want information from an app, I just open the app.

This is the IPhone approach. If you're contend with it, just stick to it.
For me the glimpse mechanism (be it tiles, widgets, lock screen glimpses, summary screens) is just more inline with the way people use their phones, to stay up to date and quickly filter out irrelevant information.

It doesn’t take long, and I get much more information than I would from a small tile. But I don’t do this on a phone, and I really don’t know anyone else who does either. If I need to see what’s on my agenda for the day, I just tap and open the calendar app. If I want to check my inbox, I either open the e-mail app or slide open the notification area on iOS or Android.
When I’m on my mobile device, I’m in a different frame of mind. I am focusing on one thing at a time. There just isn’t any significant gain in productivity in going back to the Home or Start screen and staring at a small “live tile” instead of going to the Home screen and tapping to launch the app I’m interested in.
[\q]
If quick glimpse allows you not to start the app at all you've got a gain. The tiles have the added advantage of unifying the look and interaction with various information sources.
[q]
If Microsoft would have allowed Metro apps to run in the Desktop mode in Windows 8 (or even if they allowed you to dock a few live tiles to the side of the screen in Desktop mode, replacing the functionality of “Windows Gadgets” from Windows Vista and 7), I could see Live Tiles being somewhat useful. If I’m working on something and I want to quickly see if I have any messages in my inbox, or what the current temperature is outside, I could just glance over at the side of the screen and get back to work.


Instead of having to download and install specialized gadgets (which no one apparently cared to do since there were almost no useful gadgets for Vista or 7), by allowing a Metro app’s Tile to be docked to a sidebar, you could turn any Windows 8 app into a gadget. You could dock specific apps to the sidebar instead of pinning them to the Start menu and the Desktop mode and Metro mode would be better integrated. Add a tiny button to the Sidebar that throws you back to the Metro Start screen and it would be a better experience for a lot of users and allow every user to benefit from Metro, even the ones who are going to spend their entire time in Desktop mode working with non-Metro apps.

Good idea, but I don't expect to have it implemented.


To be honest, I think Microsoft should give up on competing with Android and iOS and instead use their partnership with Nokia to create what the Kin should have been. Go after the feature phone market with a smartphone OS. Microsoft can afford to subsidize the devices (so the carriers don't have to) and make up for it with Zune Pass, Xbox Live subscriptions, and royalties from app developers. Nokia can build their dumb phones off of a Windows CE core (which is a RTOS underneath and pretty reliable when it's stripped down) and make it easy to scale up their product line from your first dumb phone, to your feature phone, to your smart phone.

I believe it is what WP7 indeed is. The difference is only in the marketing. Nokia supposedly plans to continue with WP7 branch so that's not inconceivable you might be right. Besides their newest S40 offerings really blur feature / smartphone barrier.

Edited 2012-09-10 11:31 UTC

Reply Score: 2