Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 1st Oct 2012 18:22 UTC
Apple "Apple has changed its iOS developer guidelines, adding a clause (on September 12, a source tells me) that reads: 'Apps that display Apps other than your own for purchase or promotion in a manner similar to or confusing with the App Store will be rejected.' That's a change that could have wide-reaching effects, especially on promotion models that offer developers a paid top slot on app recommendation offerings like FreeAppADay, Daily App Dream and more." Weird clause. Doesn't really seem to address any issue I can think of.
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Obvious
by JLF65 on Mon 1st Oct 2012 18:34 UTC
JLF65
Member since:
2005-07-06

The "issue" it addresses is Apple making more money by being the only entity allowed to promote apps. They pick who gets promoted... probably by who pays them the most to be promoted.

Reply Score: 6

Comment by Radio
by Radio on Mon 1st Oct 2012 18:45 UTC
Radio
Member since:
2009-06-20

The "in a manner similar to or confusing with the App Store" is key, even if the wording makes it more far-reaching than my interpretation: it is to avoid phishing.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Comment by Radio
by dsmogor on Tue 2nd Oct 2012 09:24 UTC in reply to "Comment by Radio"
dsmogor Member since:
2005-09-01

The wording is quite vague though. Apple is given a free hand in rejection here.

Reply Score: 1

Comment by Kroc
by Kroc on Mon 1st Oct 2012 19:00 UTC
Kroc
Member since:
2005-11-10

NEWS FLASH: Apple announce new app developer requirements: developers must drink a pint of slurry every hour, on the hour whilst waiting for app approval. John Gruber and other Apple bloggers posit that the change is not so bad, that the market will get used to it quickly, and that the changes will improve the quality of app submissions overall.

Reply Score: 10

RE: Comment by Kroc
by arpan on Mon 1st Oct 2012 20:08 UTC in reply to "Comment by Kroc"
arpan Member since:
2006-07-30

Gruber seems to think this clause is a bad idea.

I’m not sure I see any problem that Apple is solving here with this ban.... The App Store mostly presents you with what’s popular; an app/service like TouchArcade tries to present you with what’s good.


http://daringfireball.net/linked/2012/10/01/app-store-promotion

Reply Score: 4

RE: Comment by Kroc
by JAlexoid on Mon 1st Oct 2012 21:44 UTC in reply to "Comment by Kroc"
JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

Ironically, I think that might actually increase the quality of app submissions.

Reply Score: 4

As much as I don't like this...
by PAPPP on Mon 1st Oct 2012 19:13 UTC
PAPPP
Member since:
2006-07-26

I've been seeing a lot of Android apps that bring up a dialog box advertising other apps from the same author/publisher on every start recently. Apple may be trying to head that kind of shit off at the pass.
Edit: looking at the wording, it isn't clear if that kind of ad would be caught by the new clause, so yeah, probably just trying to make sure they remain in control of the ecosystem and prevent sub-vendors from getting a slice of the pie.

Edited 2012-10-01 19:15 UTC

Reply Score: 3

Good if it means what i think it does
by jweinraub on Mon 1st Oct 2012 20:06 UTC
jweinraub
Member since:
2009-06-22

Meaning I don't have to see popups to play another stupid zynga when I am already playing words with friends against my grandma!

But video ads needs to go as well!

Reply Score: 3

Ford Prefect Member since:
2006-01-16

Are you really using your poor grandma as an excuse to play a Zynga game?

Reply Score: 5

gkmcd
Member since:
2012-10-01

I think this obviously aimed at preventing Google from using their Maps app (which come Christmas will be quickly installed on a huge percentage of iDevices) as a foothold onto the platform and method of promoting/pushing people onto Google services and away from Apple ones.

Reply Score: 2

WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

No. The wording clearly says "other than your own," ie. Google's apps are free to promote other Google's apps.

Reply Score: 3

jgagnon Member since:
2008-06-24

But "your own" could easily be interpreted as the currently running app. So you may not be able to promote ANY application other than the one that's running. Apps that download/install/offer access to other apps might no longer be allowed. That would be crazy, but not beyond "Apple Crazy".

Reply Score: 2

UltraZelda64
Member since:
2006-12-05

All bow down to the Almighty Dead Apple God. For it is He who will bring to light what products and by who may be advertised on the screens of Apple products.

Thou Shalt Not Place Strange Ads Before Him. And if you do... well, be prepared to get in trouble, because apparently only Apple is the one allowed to be making money in this economy.

It always seemed like Apple fans had some sort of weird religion; now, it's honestly starting to seem more and more like Apple itself is taking part in this "worship us" bullshit.

Edited 2012-10-02 01:58 UTC

Reply Score: 0

How's the Apple share price?
by unclefester on Tue 2nd Oct 2012 02:45 UTC
unclefester
Member since:
2007-01-13

How's the Apple share price?

Falling. The bubble has finally burst.

Reply Score: 2

RE: How's the Apple share price?
by TM99 on Tue 2nd Oct 2012 03:36 UTC in reply to "How's the Apple share price?"
TM99 Member since:
2012-08-26

How's the Apple share price?

Falling. The bubble has finally burst.


It will take a little longer for the bubble to burst.

New problems with the iPhone 5 are cropping up daily even on CNN. Issues with Wireless and data overage charges from carriers, the mea culpa on the mapping program, and now this new policy are only the latest.

It will take a bit of time for the consumer market push to purchase the new 'toy' to be counter-balanced by the reality of the changes occurring before the stock market analysts see a problem and begin to downgrade APPL. Then, I would give it about 6 months to a year, the market correction begins.

Reply Score: 3

kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

It will take a little longer for the bubble to burst.

New problems with the iPhone 5 are cropping up daily even on CNN. Issues with Wireless and data overage charges from carriers, the mea culpa on the mapping program, and now this new policy are only the latest.

It will take a bit of time for the consumer market push to purchase the new 'toy' to be counter-balanced by the reality of the changes occurring before the stock market analysts see a problem and begin to downgrade APPL. Then, I would give it about 6 months to a year, the market correction begins.


Agreed - assuming that Blackberry has turned the corner with Blackberry 10, Windows Phone 8 becomes a real competitor and Android lifts it's quality game then it'll be a war on multiple fronts for Apple to which they'll come out worse off. As for their computer side - will be interesting to see once the iPhone slows whether the hallow effect from the iPhone results in a slow down in growth of their computer business. I know for me I've left the Mac world because they've more or less killed off anything that would make it a serious alternative to Windows outside of the consumer space thus I wouldn't be surprised if there is a knock on effect.

I don't wish for doom or gloom towards Apple but I can't shake this feeling that maybe with the share price at where it is today that maybe expectations are far to high and completely unrealistic when compared to the fundamentals on the ground. The reality is that the Apple model can only grow so big and as noted by a linked news article regarding Android - people are going for Android because it offers more variety. It is the variety that enables people to choose and customise where as Apple's strength as well as weakness is its limited range and with a limited range comes a limited amount of the market share one can obtain before no matter how hard you may market the customer just doesn't want it because it doesn't have what they want. In the case of me it wouldn't matter how deep they discount or how good the carrier plans are because the simple fact is that I want a bigger screen and the Samsung Galaxy S3 delivers where Apple can't or won't.

Reply Score: 3

It is clear to me why this clause is there
by clintg on Tue 2nd Oct 2012 09:05 UTC
clintg
Member since:
2009-09-19

Without knowing all the ins and outs, the clear issue (IMHO) is that Apple wants a take on every bit of revenue that flows through the Iphone ecosystem. If I am getting money from other developers in my app to promote their apps, money is flowing through the system without Apple getting a cut of it. I may be way off, but I read recently that a big chunk of Apple's income comes through the ecosystem, not just from hardware and Apple software.

Reply Score: 2

If I understand this correctly
by siraf72 on Tue 2nd Oct 2012 10:38 UTC
siraf72
Member since:
2006-02-22

It prevents developers from bypassing apple's ad system and generating revenue by promoting someone else's product. Something the developers presumably do for a fee.

Nothing hugely controversial here, I don't think. Anyone who sees Apple as the root of all evil will continue to do so. To me this behaviour is logical for someone in Apple's position.

Reply Score: 3

RE: If I understand this correctly
by clintg on Tue 2nd Oct 2012 13:21 UTC in reply to "If I understand this correctly"
clintg Member since:
2009-09-19

It prevents developers from bypassing apple's ad system and generating revenue by promoting someone else's product. Something the developers presumably do for a fee.

Nothing hugely controversial here, I don't think. Anyone who sees Apple as the root of all evil will continue to do so. To me this behaviour is logical for someone in Apple's position.


The question is whether they are bypassing Apple's ad system or creating their own. So, I have an app and I decide to create ads for other products IN MY OWN app to create some additional revenue. Apple's prohibition of this is unique in that they control everything to do with the Iphone in order to stop anyone from generating any revenue through the Iphone without them taking a cut. They did this with Amazon, magazines, and any number of other companies that have developed apps for the Iphone and they are doing it here.

It may be legal and may be logical for Apple, but from a consumer or app creator's perspective it is greedy, raises the price of everything, and I think leans closely toward what I would consider to be monopolistic practices.

Reply Score: 4

siraf72 Member since:
2006-02-22


It may be legal and may be logical for Apple, but from a consumer or app creator's perspective it is greedy, raises the price of everything, and I think leans closely toward what I would consider to be monopolistic practices.


I agree it's greedy and clearly Apple is taking advantage of the amount of control it exercises. But just as you say the developer has the right to do this "In [Their] own app", couldn't it be argued that Apple have the right to put T&Cs on "their own" app store?

It does smack a bit of monopolistic behaviour, however isn't the smart phone market sufficiently competitive for developers to ditch the iOS in favour of Android (hopefully eventually others OSes) if they don't like those T&Cs?

Reply Score: 1

clintg Member since:
2009-09-19


I agree it's greedy and clearly Apple is taking advantage of the amount of control it exercises. But just as you say the developer has the right to do this "In [Their] own app", couldn't it be argued that Apple have the right to put T&Cs on "their own" app store?

It does smack a bit of monopolistic behaviour, however isn't the smart phone market sufficiently competitive for developers to ditch the iOS in favour of Android (hopefully eventually others OSes) if they don't like those T&Cs?


To clarify my original comments: I think Apple has a right to do what they want and since I am not a lawyer, I really don't know where antitrust issues might come in. They obviously control the closed Iphone market, but they do not control the smartphone market. If app makers are happy to accept the rules, then it is their choice.

I guess my biggest problem with Apple in all of this is the extreme control that Apple exerts over this. I have never appreciated Apple's philosophy of control. I have never understood the fascination people have with a product that gives them little to no control over the product they just purchased (except what Apple chooses to let you do), especially when there are many more choices that give you lots of freedom.

Reply Score: 2

siraf72 Member since:
2006-02-22

I have never understood the fascination people have with a product that gives them little to no control over the product they just purchased (except what Apple chooses to let you do), especially when there are many more choices that give you lots of freedom.


Ultimately of course this is subjective. But I can only explain as to why i'm willing to pay a premium for this limited freedom - It's a polished product with a better user experience. The price for this is less flexibility/freedom. I value the polished user experience (and build quality and design) more than I do the extra options I get from buying what I consider to be a crappier product (crappier not in terms of hardware or software "features", but in terms of getting things done that I need or want to get done).

With many Apple products you have to own them (or at least use them at length) to get what the big deal is. You really appreciate the attention to detail they offer when you go back to using something else.

I have darwin, freeBSD, and ubuntu on some of my hard drives but I never use them anymore (we do use CentOS in the office though). The freedom to customise those OSes means little to me, the polish and ease of use of OS X to me is worth the price (it helps that the hardware looks great).

Also, let's face it - It's really not that hard to jailbreak the iPhone and do pretty much whatever you want with it.

Reply Score: 2

Apple
by adinas on Tue 2nd Oct 2012 14:17 UTC
adinas
Member since:
2005-08-17

It addresses the issue of keeping Apple at the top of the Tech schmucks list. Ok, ok. So SCO keeps that spot. But Apple is sure fighting hard to be No. 1

Reply Score: 0

sigh
by TomF on Tue 2nd Oct 2012 21:00 UTC
TomF
Member since:
2010-01-22

I wish Apple stopped fighting windmills (don q...) and concentrate on great products. I got a Mac Air last month, love the thing, love the OS.... but FFS stop others inovating

Reply Score: 1