Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 3rd Oct 2012 22:21 UTC
Windows Paul Allen, one of Microsoft's co-founders who left the company long ago, has posted on his blog about his experiences with Windows 8. He (surprise) likes it, but he does note a number of shortcomings and oddities - all of which are spot-on. However, he fails to address the core issue with Windows 8: it's forcing users to drill a small hole in the wall with a belt sander.
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Musings about Metro
by WorknMan on Wed 3rd Oct 2012 23:34 UTC
WorknMan
Member since:
2005-11-13

The thing about Metro is that it's rather pointless for power users/geeks to criticize it, because the fact of the matter is that it's simply not made for us, and thus we're not the ones who are going to decide its fate. The REAL test for Metro is when the millions of tech tards get their hands on it. If they like it, it it wll be a success as far as MS is concerned. If not, MS is going to be in a world of hurt.

Of course, I can't imagine anybody liking Metro, whether they're computer literate or not. (I'm still advocating violence against the f--ktard who decided that horizontal scrolling was a good idea). But if there's one thing that the Wii and iPad have taught us is that techies don't know shit about what non-techies will or won't like. Do you remember when the iPad came out? Geeks around the world turned their noses up at it. 'Oh, this isn't OSX... it's just a big iPod Touch. It'll never sell.' Shows you how much we know, eh? So we'll just have to wait and see how well metro fares when the masses get a hold of it.

'BUT ... BUT ...', I hear you scream.... 'what about the rest of us?' Well, remember that Windows 7 is really nothing more than a natural evolution of Windows 1.0. So in regard to Metro, IF it is a hit with the masses, it's going to get better. Eventually it should mature to the point that MS can port full-blown versions of Visual Studio and MS Office to it, and then we can get some real apps on it. Perhaps by Windows 10? Who knows. But the point is that you're not going to install Windows 9 and find the desktop gone with Metro as it is now. MS may make dumb decisions sometimes, but they're not THAT stupid. If they were going to go this route, they would have done it in Windows 8.

So basically, the point of this post is to say don't worry about Metro. And stop bitching about it too - at least on sites like this. When you post a rant about Metro on a tech site, you're just preaching to the choir.

As it is, 95% of Metro can be avoided on Windows 8 if you want. And if having Metro act as a start menu offends you that much, either get a start menu replacement, or just stick with Windows 7. If you want to stick with a slower booting, slower running, less memory efficient OS just to have a popup start menu, more power to you. As for me? I'm taking the plunge. Native USB 3.0 support, taskbars on multiple monitors, native ISO mounting, hyper-V virtualization built in, a much improved task manger, etc. is worth the $40 upgrade price, IMO.

Edited 2012-10-03 23:43 UTC

Reply Score: 10

RE: Musings about Metro
by Thom_Holwerda on Wed 3rd Oct 2012 23:39 UTC in reply to "Musings about Metro"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

. 'Oh, this isn't OSX... it's just a big iPod Touch. It'll never sell.' Shows you how much we know, eh?


While your point is valid, I actually predicted it would sell like hotcakes ;) .

Reply Score: 4

RE: Musings about Metro
by kaiwai on Thu 4th Oct 2012 02:20 UTC in reply to "Musings about Metro"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

I'd call myself a geek/power user and I personally don't see anything negative about Metro although I am confused when Metro is geared towards tablets and consumers but then Office 365 goal is to get everyone using Office - from the fortune 500 company to Jane Home Maker. With that being said I guess Microsoft wishes to offer many options for the many different ways things can be done on Windows rather than the 'this is the way you do it and if you don't like it tough' approach that Apple seems to take when making decisions.

I've loaded Windows 8 Enterprise trial on my ThinkPad X1 Carbon recently and the worse case scenario for many people it is the status quo with some minor tweaks. The biggest beneficiaries of Windows 8 will be tablet and phone users which in the case of me as soon as the Nokia Lumia 920 arrives in New Zealand. Apple was able to gain market share because the competition was so badly disorganised but with Microsoft finally got everything lined up coupled with success in the Android market what we'll see isn't a decline of Apple but a slowing down to maybe second or third place when it comes to high end smart phones (maybe we'll see their tablet market share decline - hard to turn down a similarly priced Windows RT tablet loaded with Office 2013 when compared to iPad which has none of that).

Side note: I'm signed up for Microsoft's exchange service and for NZ$6.11 per month I get my domain email hosted and sorted out along with ActiveSync and Outlook Exchange support. Always up and working each and everytime so I wouldn't be surprised if the services devision sees and uptick in subscriptions especially by those organisations that wish to have only but the bare minimum sitting inside their organisation with email and other hosting handled by a service company.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Musings about Metro
by wojtek on Thu 4th Oct 2012 05:29 UTC in reply to "Musings about Metro"
wojtek Member since:
2010-01-24

The thing about Metro is that it's rather pointless for power users/geeks to criticize it, because the fact of the matter is that it's simply not made for us, and thus we're not the ones who are going to decide its fate.


*THIS*

A long time ago I setup a computer for my (quite comp illiterate parents)... When to think about it it was quite 'metro style' - I made desktop icons as big as possible (setting dpi do 150%, putting a few 'games icons', one icon subtitled 'internet' that launched browser ;) ), hide away all not nececery to use. Most of the time they use 'internet', so in the browser they have only back/stop and star page with huge tiles to favourite websites. they don't use browser tabs, just read and go back. I'm aware it's plain dumb, but it's easy, works for them and they don't anything more (and I don't need to explain). Bottomline - win8 could work quite well for them even with a pointer and 22" display.

For me? I don't see myself using only one app at a time taking all the screen(s?) therefore currently I'm not inclined to try win8, however optimizations to the core are tempting (faster boot, better memory handling, etc)

Reply Score: 3

RE: Musings about Metro
by Luminair on Thu 4th Oct 2012 06:44 UTC in reply to "Musings about Metro"
Luminair Member since:
2007-03-30

the thing about metro is it's a phone interface

Reply Score: 1

RE: Musings about Metro
by tomcat on Thu 4th Oct 2012 17:39 UTC in reply to "Musings about Metro"
tomcat Member since:
2006-01-06

I'm still advocating violence against the f--ktard who decided that horizontal scrolling was a good idea


Just out of curiosity, have you ever used the iPhone? Android? iPad? Windows Phone? Because ALL of them have horizontal scrolling UIs. Yeah, the Windows variants use slightly larger customizable "tiles" in lieu of grids of icons; but the concept is essentially identical. So, unless you're advocating violence against THE ENTIRE MOBILE INDUSTRY, I'm not sure what your point is.

Furthermore, do you understand what's happening in the industry today? What Microsoft is doing has nothing to do with power user versus n00b. Tablets are the fastest growing category of computers being sold today. Period. Desktop shipments are stagnating. Laptops are starting to lose ground to tablets. Microsoft has done a pretty damned good job of creating a competitive tablet OS. Now, there are legitimate questions about whether it should have created different SKUs for different hardware targets; meaning that the desktop doesn't get Metro, tablets do, servers don't, laptops do. But there is also a credible argument that the consistency of the user interface across targets is more valuable to users; if they hadn't done this, there would be a lot of power users complaining about how different the SKUs were. Which means: Complaining is universal. You're not going to make everyone happy all the time. But that doesn't mean Win8 won't be successful. It will be. The lure of a huge hardware ecosystem and a store to sell their stuff in will bring tons of developers back to their platform.

Edited 2012-10-04 17:51 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Musings about Metro
by tidux on Thu 4th Oct 2012 19:00 UTC in reply to "RE: Musings about Metro"
tidux Member since:
2011-08-13

Horizontal scrolling is fine on a mobile device. It's infuriating and useless on a desktop.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Musings about Metro
by WorknMan on Thu 4th Oct 2012 19:07 UTC in reply to "RE: Musings about Metro"
WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

Just out of curiosity, have you ever used the iPhone? Android? iPad? Windows Phone? Because ALL of them have horizontal scrolling UIs.


I have never seen a phone or tablet app that uses horizontal scrolling in an app, especially while you're reading. (See the Metro Wikipedia app as an example.) Again, somebody deserves to be beaten to death.

Furthermore, do you understand what's happening in the industry today?


Yeah, I understand exactly what's happening. Tablets are selling by the millions, so OS vendors are dumbing down the desktop experience in order to appeal to all those mouth breathers who think that iOS is the most advanced mobile OS on the planet.

Microsoft has done a pretty damned good job of creating a competitive tablet OS. Now, there are legitimate questions about whether it should have created different SKUs for different hardware targets; meaning that the desktop doesn't get Metro, tablets do, servers don't, laptops do. But there is also a credible argument that the consistency of the user interface across targets is more valuable to users; if they hadn't done this, there would be a lot of power users complaining about how different the SKUs were. Which means: Complaining is universal. You're not going to make everyone happy all the time.


I think MS could've made everybody happy by giving people the ability to disable Metro completely in Windows 8 and bring the Start menu back. That way, people who like Metro can have it, and people (like me) who don't can get rid of it.

If you want to make the same OS for tablet and desktop, that's okay. But at LEAST make it not suck so much ass on the desktop before you make it non-removable.

Look, I am not anti-Windows 8. In fact, I plan to upgrade to it myself. But to power users, there is absolutely no way you can defend that piece of shit known as Metro. If tech tards love it, fine. It is what it is. But I ain't loving it. At least not this release.

Edited 2012-10-04 19:11 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Musings about Metro
by Alfman on Thu 4th Oct 2012 19:49 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Musings about Metro"
Alfman Member since:
2011-01-28

WorknMan,

"I think MS could've made everybody happy by giving people the ability to disable Metro completely in Windows 8 and bring the Start menu back. That way, people who like Metro can have it, and people (like me) who don't can get rid of it."

Exactly what I wanted to say. I can respect the opinion of those who like metro, as long as they can respect my opinion that I don't like it for what I do. I don't want to be dependent upon it to launch my applications.

As I mentioned in another post, the previews DID permit the restoration of the start menu through a registry hack, but microsoft is so adamant that we don't have this choice in win8 that they removed the code entirely.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Musings about Metro
by ze_jerkface on Thu 4th Oct 2012 21:03 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Musings about Metro"
ze_jerkface Member since:
2012-06-22


As I mentioned in another post, the previews DID permit the restoration of the start menu through a registry hack, but microsoft is so adamant that we don't have this choice in win8 that they removed the code entirely.


Oh it's worse than that, Sinfosky lied and said that enterprise and business versions of Windows would have Metro off by default. Now it's on fucking WINDOWS SERVER. What a glowing endorsement, forcing that crappy interface on their server OS.

Sinofsky probably realized that pirates would go after enterprise and server if it didn't have Metro. LOCK EM IN DERP DERP.

Oh well at least this idiotic plan will soon meet with reality and then shareholders will want Ballmer's head on a platter. Goodbye bozo.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Musings about Metro
by jeffb on Sat 6th Oct 2012 03:32 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Musings about Metro"
jeffb Member since:
2005-07-19

Exactly what I wanted to say. I can respect the opinion of those who like metro, as long as they can respect my opinion that I don't like it for what I do. I don't want to be dependent upon it to launch my applications.

As I mentioned in another post, the previews DID permit the restoration of the start menu through a registry hack, but microsoft is so adamant that we don't have this choice in win8 that they removed the code entirely.


Microsoft sells a product that does what you want, Windows 7. Windows 8 treats Win32 as a legacy system, the same way that when Apple migrated to OSX it was never their goal to allow you to maintain a "classic" (OS9) desktop / applications experience.

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Musings about Metro
by Alfman on Sat 6th Oct 2012 05:09 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Musings about Metro"
Alfman Member since:
2011-01-28

jeffb,

"Microsoft sells a product that does what you want, Windows 7."

Windows 7 won't last forever. And even if it did, it'd be rather silly to pretend that users who want a start menu don't want any of the other technical improvements that come with windows 8. If microsoft doesn't want to commit suicide with enterprise/pro users, they're not going to completely drop the desktop in the foreseeable future. It just sucks that we'll no longer be able to configure it as we want to.

"Windows 8 treats Win32 as a legacy system, the same way that when Apple migrated to OSX it was never their goal to allow you to maintain a 'classic' (OS9) desktop / applications experience."

The scale of irreplaceable business applications for OS9 was undeniably microscopic compared to those for windows. Also OSX could support thousands of unix apps out of the box. Microsoft's metro situation is hardly the same. Unless MS botches it up, the win32s are still a huge competitive advantage owing to the millions of man hours that have been invested in win32 business applications - including those written by me.


Edit: To clarify my stance, it's about having a choice. Whether one likes metro or not, it's unfortunate that MS is trying to promote metro by deliberately restricting users ability to configure the os not to use it.

Edited 2012-10-06 05:19 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Musings about Metro
by jigzat on Sat 6th Oct 2012 20:59 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Musings about Metro"
jigzat Member since:
2008-10-30

You have a point but if Microsoft is trying to push some kind of "cultural-tech" change they must force users otherwise it people will continue to go back to the Desktop GUI.

I remember back in the early 90's Windows had this secondary UI or a Software on top of Windows GUI that looked like a book I remember I was very little and it was the only thing I easily use, handling the regular Windows UI was too much for me.

Edited 2012-10-06 21:01 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Musings about Metro
by Alfman on Thu 4th Oct 2012 19:34 UTC in reply to "RE: Musings about Metro"
Alfman Member since:
2011-01-28

tomcat,

"Now, there are legitimate questions about whether it should have created different SKUs for different hardware targets; meaning that the desktop doesn't get Metro, tablets do, servers don't, laptops do. But there is also a credible argument that the consistency of the user interface across targets is more valuable to users; if they hadn't done this, there would be a lot of power users complaining about how different the SKUs were."


Your overlooking the obvious. The problem isn't that anyone wants a metro version and a non-metro version. The problem is that we want metro to be optional and configurable. In one win8 preview, the win7 desktop launcher could be restored by a simple registry tweak. Microsoft spent more engineering effort to remove the feature than was needed to just leave it there. Therein lies the fundamental problem, microsoft would rather cannibalize the desktop launcher and corral users into metro rather than letting users choose metro on it's own merits.

Regardless of anyone's opinion over metro's merits, it's still illustrative of how corporate monopolies are harmful to consumer choice.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Musings about Metro
by ze_jerkface on Thu 4th Oct 2012 20:54 UTC in reply to "Musings about Metro"
ze_jerkface Member since:
2012-06-22

The thing about Metro is that it's rather pointless for power users/geeks to criticize it, because the fact of the matter is that it's simply not made for us, and thus we're not the ones who are going to decide its fate.


No it is not pointless because if power users and enterprise hate it then they will have a huge hole in their financials. Shareholders will look back and see that the critics were not only correct but also responsible in speaking out against such a horrible idea.


Of course, I can't imagine anybody liking Metro,


Now that sounds like a winning product.


Do you remember when the iPad came out? Geeks around the world turned their noses up at it. 'Oh, this isn't OSX... it's just a big iPod Touch. It'll never sell.'
No actually I predicted that anything with a screen and i in front of it will be a safe sell due to Apple legions.


Shows you how much we know, eh? So we'll just have to wait and see how well metro fares when the masses get a hold of it.


Why should I assume the public reaction will be any different than this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4boTbv9_nU

The masses HATE learning a new interface and Windows 8 pisses all over what they know. Even worse is that Microsoft can't explain why they should bother because the real answer is that mouse and keyboard users are not the target. It's just some stupid plan to compete with the iPad and we'll have to let it fail before the world understands that Windows is being ran by a clueless Steve Jobs wannabe. Here is his debut video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1zxDa3t0fg

And stop bitching about it too - at least on sites like this.


I'll bitch all I goddamn want. Microsoft censors their development blogs over Windows 8 because there is so much hatred from MSDN holders like myself. Sinofsky would love it if all techies/power users stayed quiet. Hmmmmm Nah. Suggestion rejected.

As it is, 95% of Metro can be avoided on Windows 8 if you want.


No because you are assuming your workflow is like mine. I use the start menu to launch multiple instances of the same program on different servers with different parameters. With Windows 8 I get a giant flashy adware screen every time I hit the start menu button. Like Sinofsky you are assuming that everyone just uses 8-10 applications that can be pinned to the taskbar.


And if having Metro act as a start menu offends you that much, either get a start menu replacement, or just stick with Windows 7.


Yes I will stick with Windows 7 and I will be right about Windows 8. You will be wrong.

Edited 2012-10-04 20:58 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE: Musings about Metro
by redshift on Fri 5th Oct 2012 05:11 UTC in reply to "Musings about Metro"
redshift Member since:
2006-05-06

Native USB 3.0 support, taskbars on multiple monitors, native ISO mounting, hyper-V virtualization built in, a much improved task manger, etc. is worth the $40 upgrade price, IMO.


Native ISO mounting... It is about time. What the hell took them so long? They should have done that a decade ago.

Edited 2012-10-05 05:20 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Musings about Metro
by moondevil on Fri 5th Oct 2012 06:58 UTC in reply to "RE: Musings about Metro"
moondevil Member since:
2005-07-08

It is not like there aren't a few available a download away.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Musings about Metro
by smkudelko on Sun 7th Oct 2012 00:32 UTC in reply to "Musings about Metro"
smkudelko Member since:
2012-04-03

Rather than comparing the Metro part of Windows 8 to the iPad not running OS X, I think a better way to look at things would be the merging of iOS into OS X Lion and Mountain Lion. I personally think Launchpad is a useless feature, but it really isn't targeted towards me. I can bust stick to putting things in the Dock or opening my /Applications folder to see everything.

Yeah, Metro isn't for us, but unlike in OS X where the Launchpad was added but the other ways of launching applications remained, the Start screen completely replaced the old Start Menu, so we don't have the luxury of avoiding the areas of Windows 8 that aren't for us. We can use the "All Apps" screen that involves an extra click, can't be easily organized/rearranged, and still involves horizontal scrolling through an ugly Interface without folders, but that is it. Thats what we were given for "our way of doing things."

I am running the RTM release of Windows 8 Pro (from MSDN) and while it does perform very well compared to Windows 7 on the same hardware, and there are a lot of improvements to the "Desktop" UI that I love (and I hated Aero Glass), I really dread having to use the Start screen to launch apps I rarely use or have just installed, and I resent having to pin a bunch of apps to my taskbar just so I can easily launch them.

The Metro apps I have explored just arent compelling enough to deal with the abrasiveness of trying to make use of both environments.

If i could have a Start menu with EVERYTHING that shows up in Desktop mode and be able to pin select Desktop apps to the Metro Start screen (instead of the other way around), I would be happier.

If "Power" was another "charm" instead of a "Setting" I would be happier.

If I could pin a column of Live Tiles to the far right of my screen in Desktop mode (like a replacement for the Windows Gadgets) I might actually use them. As of now, they arent compelling to me because if I am in Metro at the Start screen, I want to find what im looking for and get the fuck out of that mess, not wait around watching Bing headlines scroll by one at a time just in case there is something interesting to read. I have a web browser that can give me a whole screen of headlines at the same time, show me my entire calendar at once, my entire inbox at once.

I am not anti-Microsoft or anti-Windows, but i AM against releasing half assed mediocrity that clearly still needs more work just to chase the iPad this holiday season so Ballmer can line his pockets at the expense of my unsuspecting clients who will buy a new machine and be burdened by all the extra work Windows 8 requires just to do the same things that worked fine in Windows 7.

Reply Score: 1

No, Thom...
by ronaldst on Thu 4th Oct 2012 00:01 UTC
ronaldst
Member since:
2005-06-29

You're not resistant to change. The apps aren't here yet. There are no Metro apps. No incentive. Most of the apps that comes with RTM are buggy and have not even reached parity with Mango apps. The Windows Store is empty. Microsoft Mahjong, while good, isn't enough.

Once the Facebook, the Twitter and everything else comes along, people will warm up to the Modern UI. Once the feel part of the touch experience happens, the tablet debate will be over like it happened with the Mouse.

For me, Metro is the most innovative (and I hate that prostituted word) UI advancement to happen in the last 20 years. Not cheap novelties like the Genie affect on Aqua or Live Wallpapers.

I'd judge the situation at the end of the month instead of going all out this early. Worry after. Not now. This makes no sense to worry right now. The plumbing is fantastic. The product is rock solid.

As for me, I use Windows 8 everyday. And I ain't going back to slow Windows 7.

Reply Score: 5

RE: No, Thom...
by Dave_K on Thu 4th Oct 2012 13:54 UTC in reply to "No, Thom..."
Dave_K Member since:
2005-11-16

Once the Facebook, the Twitter and everything else comes along, people will warm up to the Modern UI.


I think you're right when it comes to tablet users and people who just use their computers for things like Facebook and Twitter. But I can't see desktop "power users" ever warming to a UI that's as restrictive as Metro/Modern.

It isn't just a matter of having apps that are well designed to run on it. Modern UI is fundamentally crippled by its need to run on a small screen touch tablet. It'll never work well on a large screen desktop controlled by keyboard and mouse.

I'd judge the situation at the end of the month instead of going all out this early. Worry after. Not now. This makes no sense to worry right now.


It's not like Windows 8 is an early alpha test that's going to change radically before release. The version of Windows 8 we're testing now is essentially the version that'll be shipping with new PCs a month from now.

For non-mobile users who consider Modern UI to be a utter garbage on a desktop PC, there's good reason to worry about the future of Windows.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: No, Thom...
by jackastor on Thu 4th Oct 2012 15:11 UTC in reply to "RE: No, Thom..."
jackastor Member since:
2009-05-05

Perhaps they're expecting power users to purchase Windows Server from now on since they're so accustomed to having server functionality in linux/mac desktops.

Or does Windows Server get the Fisher Price treatment as well?

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: No, Thom...
by nej_simon on Thu 4th Oct 2012 16:23 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: No, Thom..."
nej_simon Member since:
2011-02-11

Actually Windows Server 2012 will have the metro interface too, with touch gestures, hot corners, app store etc.

http://www.zdnet.com/windows-server-2012-rtm-screenshots-7000004215...

Microsoft must be the first company who tries to put a phone interface on a server OS.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: No, Thom...
by ze_jerkface on Thu 4th Oct 2012 20:55 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: No, Thom..."
ze_jerkface Member since:
2012-06-22


Microsoft must be the first company who tries to put a phone interface on a server OS.


And the last.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: No, Thom...
by jackastor on Thu 4th Oct 2012 21:27 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: No, Thom..."
jackastor Member since:
2009-05-05

MS.Financial.disableRevenue = true;

Reply Score: 0

RE[4]: No, Thom...
by moondevil on Fri 5th Oct 2012 06:59 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: No, Thom..."
moondevil Member since:
2005-07-08

You can configure it with add/remove features.

Reply Score: 3

RE: No, Thom...
by quackalist on Sat 6th Oct 2012 00:45 UTC in reply to "No, Thom..."
quackalist Member since:
2007-08-27

Can't stand the formally known as Metro dead weight but did wonder why most of the apps didn't actually function well...apparently Microsoft thought so too, so

Microsoft spruces up crap apps in early Win8 update

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/10/05/win8_builtin_app_updates/

Hopefully that will improve things for those using FNAM, though why they'd want to...

Pity really, as there's enough goodness in the latest Win 7 SP to warrant an upgrade at the 'cheapish' price.

Reply Score: 1

Comment by jigzat
by jigzat on Thu 4th Oct 2012 00:50 UTC
jigzat
Member since:
2008-10-30

I have been using Windows 8 for some time and I have to say that it ain't that bad is just different. When the firs GUI's came up a lot of people complained pointing that the console was better and faster but it was a roadblock for most people, current GUI's have become bloated full of unnecessary options and features that are nice but barely used. Microsoft is trying hard and it is not a bad job and I'm a Mac OS X user by the way.

Most people claim that "Metro" is designed with tablets in mind and that is only half true, the issue with W8 is the input method, a tiny cursor is incompatible and Metro could scale well to desktop with the addition of a different input method similar to Apple's Magic Trackpad and changing the accurate visual hint of the cursor with something less precise like a big highlight or a shadow that pops the current selected element, and also get rid of all the hidden panels, I seriously couldn't turn off the computer the first time, I had to Google it.

Edited 2012-10-04 00:56 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE: Comment by jigzat
by WorknMan on Thu 4th Oct 2012 01:38 UTC in reply to "Comment by jigzat"
WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

current GUI's have become bloated full of unnecessary options and features that are nice but barely used.


Translation: Power users don't matter anymore, so let's cater to the masses by dumbing down the interface.

God forbid we actually come up with a solution that pleases everyone.

I'm a Mac OS X user by the way.


LOL, if you like Metro, that explains a lot.

Reply Score: 6

RE[2]: Comment by jigzat
by jigzat on Thu 4th Oct 2012 17:25 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by jigzat"
jigzat Member since:
2008-10-30

"current GUI's have become bloated full of unnecessary options and features that are nice but barely used.


Translation: Power users don't matter anymore, so let's cater to the masses by dumbing down the interface.

God forbid we actually come up with a solution that pleases everyone.
"

Metro has a clear target that accounts for 91.7653% percent of power users (I'm kidding about the precise percentage) and the money is in their pockets.

"I'm a Mac OS X user by the way.


LOL, if you like Metro, that explains a lot.
"

I'm also a software developer and that makes me a power user. The thing is that the Desktop will still be around as I said with the console, it is just another layer, but in my case I found myself using my "Desktop" mostly for work and for other stuff like email web surfing twitting I use my iPhone . The Desktop will not disappear, Microsoft will make it less and less attractive and it will lay down next to the console and the only one who will use it is us the new dinosaurs, as I said all the complains about Metro sound like my old teachers that loved the console and consider themselves power users.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Comment by jigzat
by WorknMan on Thu 4th Oct 2012 19:13 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by jigzat"
WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

If you own an iPhone, and are not just stuck with it until your contract expires, you are not a power user. Sorry.

Reply Score: 0

RE[4]: Comment by jigzat
by jigzat on Fri 5th Oct 2012 13:53 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by jigzat"
jigzat Member since:
2008-10-30

If you own an iPhone, and are not just stuck with it until your contract expires, you are not a power user. Sorry.


Actually as soon as I saw the first images of the iPhone 5 I decided to purchase the iPhone 4s son I'm happily stuck with it until the iPhone 5s.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Comment by jigzat
by ezraz on Mon 8th Oct 2012 17:43 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by jigzat"
ezraz Member since:
2012-06-20

if you decide who is a power user based on their cell phone use, you are probably just a douche.

i thought the fact that macs can run unix and windows better than anything out there these days made this argument deceased. guess not.

yes, you are smarter than everyone with an iphone. keep telling yourself that.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Comment by jigzat
by Lorin on Thu 4th Oct 2012 23:13 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by jigzat"
Lorin Member since:
2010-04-06

What Microsoft hasn't considered is the influence Power Users have in the companies they work for, many control whether a company will upgrade or not.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Comment by jigzat
by jeffb on Sat 6th Oct 2012 03:35 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by jigzat"
jeffb Member since:
2005-07-19

What Microsoft hasn't considered is the influence Power Users have in the companies they work for, many control whether a company will upgrade or not.


The Microsoft ecosystem is mostly not ready for companies to upgrade to Windows 8. For enterprise they are still pushing their customers through the WinXP -> Win7 migration which is less disruptive. The serious immediate threat, i.e the threat for the 2010's is on the consumer side.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Comment by jigzat
by Drumhellar on Thu 4th Oct 2012 03:06 UTC in reply to "Comment by jigzat"
Drumhellar Member since:
2005-07-12

"Bloat" == "Features I don't use."

But seriously, what features are you talking about? I tend to use new features, and only the bad ones I ignore.

Hell, I even used Active Desktop for a while.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Comment by jigzat
by jigzat on Sat 6th Oct 2012 01:55 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by jigzat"
jigzat Member since:
2008-10-30

Actually I was thinking about active Desktop ;) . Still I'm not saying those features are useless is just that the majority of people doesn't need them.

And I have to take the majority side this time because I realize a few years ago how a douchebag's can geeks like us be, we criticize everyone who cannot use a computer and call them retards (just to point a phrase a few post back) but I think we are the retards, is like if medics criticize the rest of us because we cannot do a surgery or prescript the right drugs. We are computer literate because that is what we do, our lives and careers circle around it, but not the rest of the people.

Edited 2012-10-06 01:55 UTC

Reply Score: 2

Comment by Drumhellar
by Drumhellar on Thu 4th Oct 2012 02:41 UTC
Drumhellar
Member since:
2005-07-12

Thom, Which settings are accessible only through the classic desktop, and which of those are users likely to need to access?

I ask only because I've been using almost exclusively the classic desktop since the developer preview came out, and anything I need to change I've avoided doing it via Metro.

Also, I think that my exclusive use of classic is why I like 8 so much, and why I installed the RTM as soon as I was able to get my hand on it. If you focus on classic, there really aren't any significant differences, but those things that are different are improvements worth having.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Comment by Drumhellar
by saso on Fri 5th Oct 2012 09:15 UTC in reply to "Comment by Drumhellar"
saso Member since:
2007-04-18

Which settings are accessible only through the classic desktop, and which of those are users likely to need to access?

How about language settings?

Reply Score: 1

'Paul's Take on Windows 8'?
by eric_niebler on Thu 4th Oct 2012 05:45 UTC
eric_niebler
Member since:
2005-06-29

More like: 'Thom's Rant on Windows 8'.

Reply Score: 4

RE: 'Paul's Take on Windows 8'?
by aargh on Thu 4th Oct 2012 08:21 UTC in reply to "'Paul's Take on Windows 8'?"
aargh Member since:
2009-10-12

+1

I went to comments to point out the very same thing.

Reply Score: 1

RE: 'Paul's Take on Windows 8'?
by ze_jerkface on Thu 4th Oct 2012 21:16 UTC in reply to "'Paul's Take on Windows 8'?"
ze_jerkface Member since:
2012-06-22

More like a sane voice in a tech world gone mad.

Good lord people do not like this thing
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2010981/poor-pre-launch-showing-plag...

But I guess there are enough stubborn nerds and fanboys who have to lick the stove to believe it is hot.

Reply Score: 1

Comment by Luminair
by Luminair on Thu 4th Oct 2012 06:58 UTC
Luminair
Member since:
2007-03-30

this article by p-dawg is awesome, and if thom could have resisted hating on metro for a moment he could have had a lot of fun.

When the PC or tablet initially starts up, you will see the Start screen, which is a view suited nicely for use from a tablet. Strangely, there is no way to set the desktop as your default view (there should be).

that is fing awesome.

it goes on and on. also note that paul links to a pretty random start menu replacement. random until you realize it is a top hit on google - not bing - for the search "replacement windows start menu". I know what you did this summer, paul.

he's not a microsoft acolyte. I believe this is his roughly honest and unfiltered opinion. that is, paul allen thinks metro for desktop computers is a stupid idea. he calls it the "tablet" interface of windows 8. sweet.

vista sidebar, get ready to move over. there is a new retarded kid on the block.

Reply Score: 2

No
by UltraZelda64 on Thu 4th Oct 2012 07:28 UTC
UltraZelda64
Member since:
2006-12-05

"Haven't we learned by now that cramming a desktop interface onto a mobile device - and vice versa - is simply very bad GUI design?"

No. The guys at the GNOME project and at Canonical still seem to think it's the wave of the future, and apparently Microsoft has other money-related priorities that are too important to get in the way of what is really meant to (and does) work.

They can shove their design up their ass though, because even on a tablet I don't want it. Why? Because even though it might feel just like home on one of those, they already fully lost my respect in the act of forcing it onto everyone--including desktop/laptop users. I don't want that shit at all if they're going to play this way with how they introduce it (ie. force it down our throats).

They could have had something that they could have been respected for, the right Windows for the right device, but instead they decided that their marketing reasons are more important than their users' experience.

To be fair, I didn't use Windows 8 for anywhere near as long as Thom did, and I sure as hell didn't use it as my primary OS (out of concern for my sanity). All it took was a few hours of *trying* to like it. I understood it just fine, and I could see where it would truly feel like the right UI for a tablet. But on my PC with a 20" monitor, keyboard and mouse--there's no way in hell I'll subject myself to that insanity for any longer than it takes to understand the GUI, its strengths and weaknesses, and realize that it's just an incredibly bad fit.

One thing I find highly ironic is that Microsoft basically took a previously-working desktop OS, attempted to get as close to gutting it from the OS as they can be making it a royal PITA to use and making the focus point strongly toward Metro--ie. a UI for tablets, phones and other weaker machines--and yet they STILL managed to make the system consume the same fucking amount of memory (or more) as their previous desktop version of Windows. Only at Microsoft...

Reply Score: 1

RE: No
by dnebdal on Thu 4th Oct 2012 08:30 UTC in reply to "No"
dnebdal Member since:
2008-08-27

Mind you, gnome3 isn't actually aimed at tablets, and isn't really a touch OS. It doesn't even ... support touch usage, unless you pretend it's mouse input.
(With the caveat that I might be wrong - this is from memory.)

I'm not sure if that makes it better or worse.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: No
by sicofante on Thu 4th Oct 2012 17:09 UTC in reply to "RE: No"
sicofante Member since:
2009-07-08

Actually Unity would be terrible on tablets too. It really shines in keyboard use. But the meme that Gnome Shell and Unity are designed for tablets won't stop overnight. There's just too many people that love repeating it again and again, wihout even having approached both desktops. Sigh...

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: No
by terrakotta on Thu 4th Oct 2012 20:42 UTC in reply to "RE: No"
terrakotta Member since:
2010-04-21

Considering it's a copy paste from webos, GNOME 3 most certainly is a touch interface. Actually if microsoft was so worried to get a unified look and feel they'd only need to copy webos too, considering the cards view is a dumbed down windows view. While I applaud them for wanting to try something really really new, the windows or card paradigm actually works quite well. The windows snap functions are really usefull and a good systemtray and taskbar can do miracles. Just to say, MS does not need a new interface, they could have gone with a les disturbing evolution of their old one, retaining the connection with their power users and attracting new users to tablets and phones.

Reply Score: 1

Metro on the Desktop
by whitehornmatt on Thu 4th Oct 2012 08:39 UTC
whitehornmatt
Member since:
2005-07-07

The multitasking is my main issue, I'm almost always running multiple apps at ones when I'm doing anything more than just web browsing.

And when I'm on the web, I'll have Zune open most of the time, playing music - often using the mini mode, to have the little set of controls in the corner of the screen.

Sure you could 'snap', but when I snap on Windows 7, it's 50/50 not 80/20 - I need code and design at the same time, or when I'm working on a paper, and need research and writing at the same time - it just doesn't work in Metro.

Please Microsoft - let me be productive - give me metro apps in Windows on the desktop, Zune is great - I'll put up with the new start menu (live tiles look good), but I don't want to be made less efficient just to upgrade my OS.

Reply Score: 3

I tried it
by bolomkxxviii on Thu 4th Oct 2012 12:41 UTC
bolomkxxviii
Member since:
2006-05-19

I tried the RTM but was incredibly frustrated with it. Metro is very limited and everything takes more mouse clicks. It is a shame. Microsoft can get things right. Just look at the new Hotmail/Outlook webmail. It is very nice and a pleasure to use. My home is a mixture of Windows and Linux. Now that Windows and Gnome have both taken the wrong paths I will be running Cinnamon on the Linux boxes and will wait for a third party fix for Metro before I consider upgrading my Windows boxes.

Reply Score: 2

Really Happy With Windows 8
by Ninjawidget on Thu 4th Oct 2012 13:27 UTC
Ninjawidget
Member since:
2011-08-18

I've been using Windows 8 for a while and really like it. I did find the metro thing strange, but thats coming from an Old School point of view. After setting stuff how I like it, I've found its really easy to use, also if you want to you can download apps to do stuff from the classic desktop. I have also found it to be faster than XP and although I was a major Linux fan I am no longer using Linux due to stagnation and lack of marketshare growth with Linux overall on the desktop. Plus it's a lot easier to develop for Windows and actually get paid for your work.

Reply Score: 2

As the Bard says
by franksands on Thu 4th Oct 2012 13:59 UTC
franksands
Member since:
2009-08-18

This Thom doth protest too much, methinks.

Seriously. Okay, it's your blog and you're entitled to your opinion and we have had it extensive and comprehensively. The thing is not out yet. Can we stop with the whining and only come back to this topic some 6 months after Win8 is in the field and with proper real life apps? Please?

Reply Score: 2

RE: As the Bard says
by vault on Fri 5th Oct 2012 14:53 UTC in reply to "As the Bard says"
vault Member since:
2005-09-15

I'm sorry, but I don't care how many "proper real life apps" (I assume you mean Metro programs) it has if I'm forced to run them in full screen on 24" and 30" monitors. It totally destroys my workflow and productivity.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: As the Bard says
by franksands on Fri 5th Oct 2012 19:37 UTC in reply to "RE: As the Bard says"
franksands Member since:
2009-08-18

I think that as time passes, developers will take advantage of the "Metro" screen real state and other features. And if all else fails, you can go to the desktop and be done with it.

Reply Score: 2

Win 8
by Drunkula on Thu 4th Oct 2012 14:44 UTC
Drunkula
Member since:
2009-09-03

This is not the UI you are looking for. Oh wait that'd be me.

:-(

Reply Score: 1

useful blog
by feydun on Thu 4th Oct 2012 14:48 UTC
feydun
Member since:
2012-02-27

I thought the article was really useful, basically he says he likes it, then points out a bunch of ways that it could easily be made a lot better and more usable...

Makes you wonder, how come Microsoft couldn't just get it right... but also shows that all the gnome-3 & unity bashing isn't due to those developers not doing a good job, but that even a company with vast resources and a huge number of full-time developers needs to iterate over a few years to get it right, for a significant UI change.

I'll definitely be buying it, because it's cheap initially. I probably won't register it, which probably means I won't be able to use the app store even if I wanted to. At the moment I have win7 on my desktop, along with many other OSes, and although i bought it legally it's unregistered, with hacks to deal with the reminders etc and service pack downloaded on an xp installation on the same pc. The reason - I became used to a volume-licensed XP and I know it's sad, but I find myself re-installing OSes very regularly. I resist doing it, but it happens, partly because of messing up hardware and software in ways that require considerable expertise & unnecessary fiddling.

Also, I don't see why I shouldn't have multiple non-virtual installations of the same OS on single PC. I like to use one for emergency repairs, one for trying out new software etc, and so on. Also has security uses, like QubeOS. I could use VMs & sandboxing, but there's a complexity and performance overhead. So, I can easily use up 10 re-installs in a lot less than a year, plus I can't have multiple registered copies on the same physical PC which are being used only by myself...

For people with common sense though, if you want to use windows, i think 7 is a good OS.

Reply Score: 1

Classic Shell
by sb56637 on Thu 4th Oct 2012 15:49 UTC
sb56637
Member since:
2006-05-11
Well written Thom
by PieterGen on Thu 4th Oct 2012 18:51 UTC
PieterGen
Member since:
2012-01-13

nt

Reply Score: 1

I dunno man...
by dgoemans on Thu 4th Oct 2012 19:52 UTC
dgoemans
Member since:
2008-08-23

I've been using Windows 8 since December, developing a game which is scheduled as a launch title, and i like it. For a power user, Metro is like a super fast start menu. I don't care much for metro apps, except maybe for games since those are fullscreen anyway, but the desktop is great for power users. Improved copy dialogs, improved explorer and much faster. I even went and installed RTM on my home laptop this weekend. I'll grant you this though, Thom, it's made some big progress from Developer Preview to RTM. Even Release Preview was pretty rough around the edges. I do agree with Paul in that the Puzzling points he has are probably my only issues with the OS.

Also it's kinda nice being able to play Wordfeud in Windows ;)

Reply Score: 2

RE: I dunno man...
by ze_jerkface on Fri 5th Oct 2012 15:57 UTC in reply to "I dunno man..."
ze_jerkface Member since:
2012-06-22

For a power user, Metro is like a super fast start menu.


What a load of crap, the start menu has been instant for years. Sorry but you can't get faster than instant.

The start screen in Windows 8 is an abomination, like a combination of adware and the shortcut organization skills of a 5 year old.

In Windows 7 I can read a document and then launch the start menu without being distracted. In Windows 8 you get a UI that takes over your workspace and screams DID YOU WANT TO LAUNCH ANY OF THESE GIANT ANIMATED ICONS??? .

It's so fucking awful, please stop trying to convince us that Microsoft's piss is lemonade. Windows 8 reduces productivity because productivity is not the goal. The goal is to compete with Apple instead of serving customers. Ballmer/Sinofsky will fail at this goal and infuriate their customer base. Get ready for the wrath of Fortune 500 companies when they see what Microsoft expects them to put up with.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: I dunno man...
by dgoemans on Sat 6th Oct 2012 08:47 UTC in reply to "RE: I dunno man..."
dgoemans Member since:
2008-08-23

In Windows 7, when i hit the windows key and start typing, the app i'm looking for takes at least 5 seconds to replace the "Searching" text. In Windows 8 it's instant. And not just apps, Control Panel settings and files from my libraries. My quad core laptop with 6GB of RAM has no reason to take that long on Windows 7.

As for the argument of it being fullscreen, it doesn't bug me. I see this argument a lot and don't understand it. Never in my history of using Windows, Linux or Mac OS have i needed to focus on another app while trying to launch an app. Maybe it's just me.

Sure, it's not a perfect OS, and Paul Allen has some points, but given the speed of the entire OS and the improvements that i mentioned, i'm pretty pleased.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: I dunno man...
by WereCatf on Sat 6th Oct 2012 10:14 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: I dunno man..."
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

In Windows 7, when i hit the windows key and start typing, the app i'm looking for takes at least 5 seconds to replace the "Searching" text.


That sounds odd. On my system it takes exactly one second. I have no idea what is causing the delay on your end.

As for the argument of it being fullscreen, it doesn't bug me. I see this argument a lot and don't understand it. Never in my history of using Windows, Linux or Mac OS have i needed to focus on another app while trying to launch an app. Maybe it's just me.


It is up to the individual. I find it much easier to keep focus on the task at hand if I can just click on a small menu on the left corner instead of being taken away to a fullscreen-thing that looks completely different from where I just was, and to some people this feeling of being able to keep focus is very important -- losing that can be very disturbing and can hamper their workflow. But as I said, not everyone is equal on this thing.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: I dunno man...
by matthekc on Sat 6th Oct 2012 18:25 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: I dunno man..."
matthekc Member since:
2006-10-28
RE[2]: I dunno man...
by marcus0263 on Sun 7th Oct 2012 14:48 UTC in reply to "RE: I dunno man..."
marcus0263 Member since:
2007-06-02

"For a power user, Metro is like a super fast start menu.


What a load of crap, the start menu has been instant for years. Sorry but you can't get faster than instant.

The start screen in Windows 8 is an abomination, like a combination of adware and the shortcut organization skills of a 5 year old.

In Windows 7 I can read a document and then launch the start menu without being distracted. In Windows 8 you get a UI that takes over your workspace and screams DID YOU WANT TO LAUNCH ANY OF THESE GIANT ANIMATED ICONS??? .

It's so fucking awful, please stop trying to convince us that Microsoft's piss is lemonade. Windows 8 reduces productivity because productivity is not the goal. The goal is to compete with Apple instead of serving customers. Ballmer/Sinofsky will fail at this goal and infuriate their customer base. Get ready for the wrath of Fortune 500 companies when they see what Microsoft expects them to put up with.
"

Personally I'm wondering why someone didn't/hasn't stood up to Ballmer and said -

It's called W-I-N-D-O-W-S

If I wanted/needed an OS on the desktop that monopolizes the entire desktop I'd still be running MS-DOS. Metro is fine on mobile devices with small "single" monitors but is useless on the Desktop. I've tried opening my mind to it but after using it for some weeks (and yes I've even tried 3rd party hacks for a traditional desktop) it's truly a piece of kludgy miss mashed shit. Most business's will reject it (MS's bread and butter) and other than the MS fanboy's home users will reject it also, this may be what gets Ballmer shit canned. This will replace "New Coke" as one of the biggest failure's ever.

You know as much as I dislike Apple at least they have the common sense separate the Desktop interface and the Mobile interface.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: I dunno man...
by TM99 on Mon 8th Oct 2012 03:17 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: I dunno man..."
TM99 Member since:
2012-08-26


It's called W-I-N-D-O-W-S

If I wanted/needed an OS on the desktop that monopolizes the entire desktop I'd still be running MS-DOS.


Could not have said it better. My experience with all the previews is the same.

You know as much as I dislike Apple at least they have the common sense separate the Desktop interface and the Mobile interface.


For now, this may be true, but the iOsification of OS X has already started. I truly expect a complete merger of the two within 2 to 3 years.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: I dunno man...
by zima on Tue 9th Oct 2012 00:24 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: I dunno man..."
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Personally I'm wondering why someone didn't/hasn't stood up to Ballmer and said -
It's called W-I-N-D-O-W-S

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Windows1.0.png

That's right, the product which gave the whole line its name, the first version of W-I-N-D-O-W-S, didn't have overlapping windows (well, except for that "About" dialog, it would seem) - it basically used tiling window manager concepts ...which, really, are also very close to what Metro brings! (and I could see the refined Metro 2.0 or 3.0 - the way Windows got sufficiently refined only at 3.x, and took over by storm - bringing more fully the tiling window management concepts; you'd think ~geeks would see that possibility and like it very much - after all they are often enamoured by *nix tiling WMs...)

Generally, it's extremely hard to distance oneself from biases of self-perception, when coming at personal conclusions about Metro ...actual proper testing (supposedly done in copious amounts by MS) might be really showing that Metro is quite fine - and that it might be very well generally liked.
(another example of placebo-like effects: http://plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/Mouse_vs._keyboard/index.html ...or how, contrary to quite a few loud "connoisseurs", serious research seems to suggest that touchpads are actually superior to trackpoints: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointing_stick#Comparison_with_touchpa... & http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=18522893 external link ...and note how the links supportive of trackpoint are "subjective opinion" in character; and I even like trackpoints, I'm used to the idea, but...)

Reply Score: 2

desktop <> phone
by benali72 on Fri 5th Oct 2012 05:54 UTC
benali72
Member since:
2008-05-03

If MS makes Metro stick on the desktop, it'll be the biggest tribute to the power of monopoly ever. I'm not gonna pay for MS to get marketshare for phones.

Reply Score: 2

Great!
by DOSguy on Fri 5th Oct 2012 07:09 UTC
DOSguy
Member since:
2009-07-27

So, one of the founders of Microsoft posts his views on Windows 8, and all you can do is tell us that he basically forgot to include your opinion in this piece?

great! Just.... great....

Reply Score: 1

andih
Member since:
2010-03-27

when MS say jump you jump, when they say pay you pay, when they say switch to metro, you switch to metro..

why do people waste their precious time and money on this proprietary crap.
There are good open source GUIs for anybodys taste out there.

I would charge a lot pr hour to use windows 8. And I currently charge pr hour to use windows 7, still I try to avoid it as much as I can. ;)

I cannot help think metro is designed for and by disabled and retarded people...

Reply Score: 0

WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

when MS say jump you jump, when they say pay you pay, when they say switch to metro, you switch to metro..

why do people waste their precious time and money on this proprietary crap.
There are good open source GUIs for anybodys taste out there.

I would charge a lot pr hour to use windows 8. And I currently charge pr hour to use windows 7, still I try to avoid it as much as I can. ;)

I cannot help think metro is designed for and by disabled and retarded people...


Stop being an ignoramus and think a little: 1) many people have hardware that works properly only under Windows. 2) many people have software that only works properly under Windows. 3) Windows comes pre-installed on almost all off-the-shelf computers. 4) a familiar name matters to Average Joes.

Edited 2012-10-06 03:34 UTC

Reply Score: 3

no we haven't.
by jeffb on Sat 6th Oct 2012 03:27 UTC
jeffb
Member since:
2005-07-19

Haven't we learned by now that cramming a desktop interface onto a mobile device - and vice versa - is simply very bad GUI design?

No Microsoft's whole theory is ubiquitous computing that people don't want: phone interfaces, tablet interfaces, desktop interfaces, client / server interfaces and web interfaces. That this all needs to pull together and that software needs to migrate in natural ways from phone to tablet to desktop to server.

Step 1 is creating an OS
Step 2 is going to be getting hardware with both desktop and tablet capabilities on the market
Step 3 is getting applications

Windows 8 is designed to be a transitional system.

Reply Score: 1

So Much Hate
by Ninjawidget on Sat 6th Oct 2012 21:55 UTC
Ninjawidget
Member since:
2011-08-18

So much hate from the unwashed masses it would seem lolz. The fact is that Windows 8 will work, people will buy it, it will succeed and its marketshare in one week will surpass Linux. Now if that is the case then there must be something good about Windows 8, and there is. After 7 years of using Linux I am a diehard Windows only user, I have Windows 8 on pre-order, and I be a happy productive person who has found the new metro ui although different to start with, not so different that I can't use it happily. Anyways, like has been said before, but the haters choose not to read YOU CAN DOWNLOAD A FREE APP, VISTART8 TO GET WINDOWS CLASSIC BACK DOUCHEBAGS!
Now, I'm off to do something useful, probably swing back this way next year, cheerio.

Reply Score: 2

RE: So Much Hate
by Lorin on Sat 6th Oct 2012 23:32 UTC in reply to "So Much Hate"
Lorin Member since:
2010-04-06

People will not buy it, it will be forced on them when they buy a new machine, luckily some states are passing or have passed legislation that will make it illegal to sell a computer unless the buyer can choose which OS they want.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: So Much Hate
by Ing222 on Sun 7th Oct 2012 14:14 UTC in reply to "RE: So Much Hate"
Ing222 Member since:
2012-10-07

Personally, I applaud more choice. However, the general consumer does not. The general consumer wants all the choices made for them. As an example, look at Apple. They are immensely popular for the general public because everything is so "dumbed" down and all the decisions are made for them.

The passing of legislation to give the consumer more choice sounds like a great idea on paper, however I don't see it impacting much as the general consumer will just choose Windows.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: So Much Hate
by Alfman on Sun 7th Oct 2012 17:21 UTC in reply to "RE: So Much Hate"
Alfman Member since:
2011-01-28

Lorin,

"People will not buy it, it will be forced on them when they buy a new machine, luckily some states are passing or have passed legislation that will make it illegal to sell a computer unless the buyer can choose which OS they want."

I hadn't heard about this kind of legislation anywhere?

It's a big problem that we don't usually get to choose the OS independently from the hardware, especially with laptops. Applying a non-windows criterion filters out practically all hardware available for purchase (even those that are linux compatible). We can blame vendors, but realistically they all might be concluding that platforms with <5% market share just aren't worth catering to. It's a catch 22 for alternative operating systems, which cannot compete on merit alone. They constantly struggle against network effects that strongly favour the entrenched platforms.

This isn't to say windows doesn't have merit because it does, but consumers do loose when a company can exploit network effects to push negative undesirable features like not being able to customise the start menu, and the walled gardens present in IOS and Metro.

Reply Score: 2

RE: So Much Hate
by quackalist on Mon 8th Oct 2012 07:19 UTC in reply to "So Much Hate"
quackalist Member since:
2007-08-27

Your a strange one, it's a discussion about the merits of an OS...get over yourself.

Reply Score: 1

kateline
Member since:
2011-05-19

Isn't it amazing what some people will put up with to run Windows on their desktops & laptops?

I'm sure we'll be treated to plenty of blogs, reviews, and articles on how this is "the greatest Windows ever!"

BLAH!

Reply Score: 1

WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

Isn't it amazing what some people will put up with to run Windows on their desktops & laptops?


Actually, I find it much more amazing that some people just have to pop in every time there is any mention of Windows/OSX/Linux to make posts about how much they hate it without ever actually bothering to give details about why they hate it or why they feel others shouldn't use it, or heck, providing any kind of commentary whatsoever that is in any way worth reading at all.

It says quite a lot about you people, you realize that? No one likes to listen to someone who clearly has an axe to grind; pepper a comment with some insightful thoughts or even just generous amounts anecdotal evidence and you look much more reasonable.

Reply Score: 2