Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 4th Oct 2012 14:11 UTC
Windows "Microsoft doesn't understand that people travel around the world, and are hugely sentimental about things they've paid for. Here's a list of some services that are affected by Windows Live ID billing region locks and what you will lose if you move countries." It ain't pretty.
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Not Only MS
by franksands on Thu 4th Oct 2012 14:49 UTC
franksands
Member since:
2009-08-18

All big companies need to realize this. More than that, they need to understand that there is this thing called "the internets". Restricting your service to US only or UK only or whatever other "only" you want is restricting the amount of money you'll receive. Why settle selling to one country, when you can sell to the whole world?

Reply Score: 2

RE: Not Only MS
by anda_skoa on Thu 4th Oct 2012 16:17 UTC in reply to "Not Only MS"
anda_skoa Member since:
2005-07-07

All big companies need to realize this. More than that, they need to understand that there is this thing called "the internets"


The problem is not that they do not understand, the problem is they do and are scared to their bones.

Regional restrictions are all about market control, or more precisely making sure producers control the market, not consumers by artificially restricting what people can buy from which vendor or through which distribution chain.

For example increasing short term content licence profits by stricking exclusive distribution licence deals for certain regions. The exclusive licence cost more but the now exclusive distributor can pass that on to the consumers because they don't have a choice to buy elsewhere.

The exclusivness is thenenforced by technical means such as DRM, region codes, Geo IP, or administrative hurdles such as needing a credit card or bank account for that region, or, in the worst case, through legislative means (e.g. making it illegal to circumvent ineffective technical or administrative hurdles)

Reply Score: 7

RE[2]: Not Only MS
by franksands on Thu 4th Oct 2012 21:42 UTC in reply to "RE: Not Only MS"
franksands Member since:
2009-08-18

But isn't in their own interest, and their shareholders interest, to sell as much as possible? Wouldn't CBS be better of selling to the whole world directly than having to go through all these loops, with different rules in each country it approaches?

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Not Only MS
by bassbeast on Sun 7th Oct 2012 09:29 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Not Only MS"
bassbeast Member since:
2007-11-11

<p>Nooo, because if that were true people in say the USA would be wanting to know why their episode costs $2.99 while the exact same episode in a different region costs the equivalent of 50c.</p>

See its all about squeezing that last dime and selling for the absolute limit the market will bare, long term effects be damned. I mean look at how long it took to get it through their thick heads that nobody was gonna pay for lousy WMA music with DRM up the butt yet while they switched to MP3 they are STILL making piracy the better deal as they charge a buck a single when by all rights it should be less than 25c since they don't have any printing or distribution costs.

This is why I truly hope the cartels go broke, things simply won't get better as long as they exist. They are already losing their stranglehold on audiences as more and more discover Internet radio but rather than keep themselves relevant by following the Henry Ford model of capitalism, make it cheap and sell lots, they will squeeze for every last dime, sticking it to artists AND consumers for every penny they can shake out of your pocket.

But don't blame MSFT for this one, although they do tons of boneheaded moves (cough Windows 8 cough) in this case they have no choice, its the IP owners that set the region rules and to get worldwide distribution rights would cost so much that MSFT wouldn't even break even. Its greed friend, pure unadulterated greed on the part of the media cartels and game publishers.

Hell watch the "Wil Wheaton Dr Who" rant on YouTube, he did the "right thing" by buying his Dr Who episodes from Amazon only to go across the border into Canada and have his videos locked. As he said "If I would have just torrented the episodes i could have been watching them".

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Not Only MS
by jgagnon on Tue 9th Oct 2012 12:31 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Not Only MS"
jgagnon Member since:
2008-06-24

I mean look at how long it took to get it through their thick heads that nobody was gonna pay for lousy WMA music with DRM up the butt yet while they switched to MP3 they are STILL making piracy the better deal as they charge a buck a single when by all rights it should be less than 25c since they don't have any printing or distribution costs.


A HUGE chunk of the overhead for music is all of the production and promotion work that goes into making the original copy, so to speak. A lot of people have to get paid money to make it all happen, especially on the promotion side. The costs of making a hard copy (CD, case, printed material) are very low, and in volume is likely less than 50 cents per copy. So changing the distribution medium from a CD to an MP3 file still doesn't change their cost structure by much.

And before I get pounced on, I'm not promoting the outrageous pricing structure they have in place for music, movies, or games. On a personal note though, I think buying a song for a dollar is fine and even a good deal for a song I like. The part I hate about it is how little of that dollar is actually given to the artist. It is a far cry better than paying $20 for a CD just to get that one song.

I long for a day when we can buy directly from artists and cut out the middle man entirely for these things.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Not Only MS
by zima on Thu 11th Oct 2012 23:59 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Not Only MS"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

<p>Nooo, because if that were true people in say the USA would be wanting to know why their episode costs $2.99 while the exact same episode in a different region costs the equivalent of 50c.</p>
See its all about squeezing that last dime and selling for the absolute limit the market will bare, long term effects be damned. I mean look at how long it took to get it through their thick heads that nobody was gonna pay for lousy WMA music with DRM up the butt yet while they switched to MP3 they are STILL making piracy the better deal as they charge a buck a single when by all rights it should be less than 25c since they don't have any printing or distribution costs.

While I see and agree overall with the sentiment of your post... you must realize one important thing about the world: generally, as a rule of thumb, the more impoverished a given place is, the more expensive ~luxury products are (and media are certainly such products); the essentials (water, food, shelter, clothing, fuel) are quite often also more expensive; all when talking in absolute amounts of money (gets much worse in relative).
I would be glad if singles cost the equivalent of 1 USD in my currency - but they are around two times more expensive. In absolute amounts, so think at least 3-4x in relative.

Which of course has the large scale, worldwide effect of raising a generation who thinks that downloading media from p2p is quite normal...
Remember all the noise around ACTA, how some societies rose up in protests, how some countries - PL, for example - supposedly essentially blocked it? One thing wasn't very publicised - in PL, for example, the rallying cry among the masses was "you won't be able to download movies!" ...and not much more. That's all they really cared about.

rather than keep themselves relevant by following the Henry Ford model of capitalism, make it cheap and sell lots, they will squeeze for every last dime, sticking it to artists AND consumers for every penny they can shake out of your pocket.

Though this analogy is not the most fortunate...

NVM that Fordism can be also described as the masses having ENOUGH money to afford the product (which they generally do in the case of media).

Fordism is also about homogenisation of production (one-few mass-produced models), many identical units - and in this perspective, the media industry is WILDLY successful: the masses not only mostly consume and buy "big media" product, they also pirate such content much more than music/films/games coming from indie "craftsmen" ...do you really want more Fordism in how the masses consume media, more mass-produced entertainment?

Edited 2012-10-12 00:18 UTC

Reply Score: 2

Comment by Darkmage
by Darkmage on Thu 4th Oct 2012 14:58 UTC
Darkmage
Member since:
2006-10-20

Every year they pull this bullshit, and every year I move more stuff to linux and make more tools so I don't need to worry about this affecting me. You get what you pay for. If you're going to pay money for a shit product, that's your problem.

Reply Score: 7

I think you can actually change it
by sukru on Thu 4th Oct 2012 15:02 UTC
sukru
Member since:
2006-11-19

I changed my region when I moved from Europe to US. And my Xbox is working fine. I do not know whether they disabled it now, but the option still seems to be there at:
https://account.live.com/editprof.aspx

Reply Score: 3

Not better with the Apple AppStore
by zimbatm on Thu 4th Oct 2012 15:07 UTC
zimbatm
Member since:
2005-08-22

It's actually possible to change country in the AppStore. You need a credit-card from the country. But then you don't have access to your previous purchases. You keep getting updates as long as they are installed but it's not possible to re-install them unless you re-switch country.

Edited 2012-10-04 15:08 UTC

Reply Score: 2

kristoph Member since:
2006-01-01

That's BS. I had no problem switching my address to another country and to a credit card in that country.

You never lose your purchases unless you change your account.

Reply Score: 2

zimbatm Member since:
2005-08-22

And you still have access to your old purchases ?

Reply Score: 1

Live Mesh also dropped
by edvim on Thu 4th Oct 2012 15:52 UTC
edvim
Member since:
2010-03-12

For anyone who relied on Windows Live Mesh, which allowed automatic remote linking between PCs with or without cloud storage, along with remote desktop control, note that with the Windows Live Essentials 2012 update you lose Live Mesh functionality. It's more or less merged with your Skydrive account but without those extra features. If you leave your system running Windows Essentials 2011, Live Mesh will continue working as is (although MS will most likely kill its functionality at some point).

Reply Score: 3

RE: Live Mesh also dropped
by sukru on Sun 7th Oct 2012 23:47 UTC in reply to "Live Mesh also dropped"
sukru Member since:
2006-11-19

Yes, I was using live mesh to sync my music collection across my computers, and no other system was free and reliable (except for writing my own rsync scripts).

Anyways, Microsoft seems to be consolidating their services, and decided to cut something people actually use. Fortunately they offered a free 25GB skydrive for older users, and it makes up for now (my collection is around ~15GB).

Reply Score: 2

Illegal
by geleto on Thu 4th Oct 2012 16:21 UTC
geleto
Member since:
2005-07-06

The case from the article (not being able to use your accounts when moving between EU countries) is illegal because of the single market and free movement EU regulations.

Reply Score: 7

EU Rules
by MrWeeble on Thu 4th Oct 2012 16:22 UTC
MrWeeble
Member since:
2007-04-18

Pretty sure that behaviour (item purchased in the Netherlands not usable after moving to the UK) would be against EU rules regarding the internal market (or at least on shaky ground).

Reply Score: 3

Comment by shmerl
by shmerl on Thu 4th Oct 2012 18:13 UTC
shmerl
Member since:
2010-06-08

Another reason to avoid locked in "ecosystems".

Reply Score: 4

Comment by Luminair
by Luminair on Thu 4th Oct 2012 21:04 UTC
Luminair
Member since:
2007-03-30

f cloud storage, really. nothing I have is so big that I can't store it myself. lets have a cheer for data ownership and liberty.

Reply Score: 4

Ouch!
by Drunkula on Fri 5th Oct 2012 12:48 UTC
Drunkula
Member since:
2009-09-03

I'd hate to lose all that because I moved and MS is too lazy/incompetent to fix it. Shame on MS!

Reply Score: 1

Sentimental?
by Soulbender on Sat 6th Oct 2012 04:55 UTC
Soulbender
Member since:
2005-08-18

I'd say it has nothing to do with the sentimental value but everything to do with having access to products you have legally purchased.

Reply Score: 2