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...is their ongoing lawsuits against Samsung and the rest of the Android cell phone industry.
Suing over ideas that, according to Jobs himself decades ago, were meant to be "stolen" by any "great artist."
Yeah. He shamelessly stole ideas. And then just before he died he started shamelessly suing everyone else for commiting the same sin that he once believed in. And now, the real tribute seems to be the fact that Apple is continuing his legacy, exactly as he left off. He died sue-happy; the company progressively gets even more sue-happy. Edited 2012-10-05 12:39 UTC
If you can't win it, spin it.
What Steve meant by this quote was already explained in 1999, probably earlier too. This is way before the Apple haters started focussing solely on the word "stealing".
So you don't only call Steve/Apple a thief, but also Pablo Picasso.
It beats me why you would link a tribute video about someone you call a thief and a company you hate.
Everybody is a thief, especially in the technology industry. Apple fans find that a bad thing (except when it comes to Apple, of course, when it's no longer stealing but "inspiration" or "doing it right"), while most others don't. Edited 2012-10-05 13:11 UTC
No, it's something you made up (in a rather generalizing way) about Apple fans and then ridicule them for it.
Why was this voted down?
Most likely he told an unpopular truth.
He wasn't off-topic, trolling or inaccurate, yet one of these options was chosen when a couple of readers voted him down.
And what did he mean by 'We have always been shameless about stealing great ideas'?
A computer, the GUI, media player, phone, tablet. Nothing Apple invented, but ideas they took and put their own spin on it.
They don't copy, like for example Samsung, but they use an existing idea as a basis and then create something in their own vision.
When you copy you create something that's the same, when you steal, which isn't meant in a literal sense, you make it your own. This is was Pablo Picasso meant and what Steve Jobs was referring too.
People who hate Apple/Steve, like Thom, only focus on the world "steal", because nobody likes thieves and claim this as proof that Apple copies others, but they ignore the fact that the word "copy" was already used earlier in the quote.
So, to summarise your post:
Apple builds on others != stealing.
Others build on Apple = stealing.
Apple, and probably a number others too, take existing ideas and create products the way they think they should be done.
Most, like Samsung, create me-too products. Less risky, but also more boring. Edited 2012-10-05 13:49 UTC
The THEFT of ideas Picasso and Steve Jobs were talking about has NOTHING to do with the COPY of design, functions and appearance!
During his lead, Apple never copied a product of a competing Company the way Samsung (clearly) did.
we get it apple invents and everybody else are stealing from apple
that court was a farce and should never be used!
If you're not on Apple's payroll yet, do apply with them as you are certainly missing on monetizing on your emotional vestment on that company.
I guess it's that time of the year when you can't say what a jerk he was.
RIP Dennis Ritchie
Now there was a guy with talent and vision, Jobs was a long way behind this guy and his buddy Ken Thompson. Without those two there would be no Apple success story, no Jobs success story. I'll let those who don't know do their own research and join the dots together.
Exactly. It bothered me a year ago and it bothers me now. How lots of people went (an still go) on about Steve Jobs and not a word about Dennis Ritchie.
You can make a huge list of important people, inventors, scientists, explorers, painters, etc... but most people will only recognize the likes of Brad Pitt, Rihanna (who has at least 10 US number one hits vs 0 for Depeche Mode, go figure) or the current boy band.
Would anyone recognize Nikola Tesla? Or Isaac Newton? Or even heard of them or what they did?
Dennis Ritchie earned his place in history, but he wasn't in a boy band. Nor was Steve Jobs, but he got much more media attention during his live and lots of people use Apple products and while Steve was in charge Apple and Steve were basically the same thing.
Mention Ritchie and people don't know him. Mention C and it still doesn't ring a bell (pun intended), mention UNIX and some people may ask if that wasn't something like DOS where you had to type stuff.
More people know what Britney Spears had for breakfast than people know Dennis Ritchie.
And right here is why this excessive worship of all things Steve is ultimately ridiculous.
History remembers Tesla and Newton. They truly impacted culture and society. They advanced the human race.
In the future it will be Ritchie and Woz who are remembered. Jobs will be like Brittany Spears and Brad Pitt. No one will remember nor should they.
What do you call excessive worship of Steve? The video on the website of his own company, a year after his death, was more a trip-down-memory-lane than any kind of worshipping. Apart from that I don't know anyone who has a Steve tattoo or do I know of any Steve worshipping groups.
There are probably some that do worship Steve, but there are a number of strange people in this world. Had there been no Steve they would have picked someone else.
Dennis Ritchie will go down in computing history. Woz too, but only in a very small role. What did he do after the Apple I and II? Segway polo and a celebrity dancing show. He didn't come back to Apple (well, technically he never left as he's still on the payroll), saved it and made it in a huge profitable company.
If you talk about computer history from the 70's to the first decade of this century there is no way around Steve Jobs or Bill Gates with lesser roles, but important ones, for Jack Tramiel and Sir Clive Sinclair for example.
Whatever you think of Steve and Apple or Bill Gates and Microsoft, their products, their way of doing business, they played a mayor role the last couple of decades. They can not be forgotten unless you forget these decades, which is hard to do considering the enormous progress that has happened.
We're still talking about Steve. Do we ever talk about Michael Dell or any of the recent HP CEOs? And we only talk about Woz when he says something that the media spreads around.
Dennis Ritchie probably deserves more recognition, because of C and UNIX, two things that still play a mayor role in computing today which is quite a thing in the IT world where things move fast and become obsolete even faster sometimes.
But alas for Dennis C and UNIX and things that are hidden from the general public who do see iMacs, iPods, iPhones and iPads. You can't see that their inner workings can be traced back to Dennis, but you can see the Apple logo.
Now I like history and credit, so I think it would be very cool if Apple recognized people like Dennis, even if it's some tucked away about box.
How cool is it to know you're using a modern piece of hardware, running modern software, with roots all the way back to the late 60's? It's something you and I know, but also easy to forget.
Why does it bother you? That is a rather odd attitude to have to people celebrating the life of someone who was successful in his chosen field, and did a lot to push computing industry to where it is today.
The only reason this would bother you is if you have what is bordering on an irrational dislike of Steve Jobs to the point that other people praising him offends you, or rather your sense of "fairness".
Steve Jobs was more well known that Dennis Ritchie, more people knew him and what he was about. Dennis Ritchie chose a life away from the limelight, therefore he is less well known than Jobs. There is no inherent unfairness about this. It doesn't diminish his achievements the least bit.
This isn't about 'fairness', this is about the glorification of the sociopath.
Americans today 'worship' the sociopaths, the narcissists, and the 'bad guys & gals'.
What men like Jobs did to the financial sector is happening in technology as well. Yes, Page & Gates also fit this psychological description, however, they are not 'popular'. Their companies do not hold the popular appeal that Apple now does. Apple has also now become another company too big to fail. If it does, it literally would impact the American economy. There may be hope with these lawsuits if Apple loses either on appeal or another patent suit. There may be hope if Cook continues to 'act' human like his recent apology about the map app. Jobs would NEVER have done that.
As part of my professional work, I deal with the effects of the human psychology on business and the effects of business on the human psychology.
So this is why I am concerned. It affects us all when men like Jobs are worshiped and men like Ritchie are forgotten. It is supremely rational to not like the unlikeable.
Still missing the point. Ritchie decided to live a life of obscurity, and therefore he is unknown. Steve Jobs was very well known, and he did cultivate a very specific public persona.
Yes, Steve Jobs was a hard task master, but one thing is obvious. No one who worked with him really said much bad about him. Not even Jon Rubinstein, or Tony Faddell.
Yes, he had a reputation for being a hard taskmaster, but Apple wasn't losing people. He wasn't a pushover, and he didn't employ pushovers either. He may have lacked social skills, but nowadays, we call that being a geek.
And comparing Steve Jobs to bankers is absurd. How many of those bankers founded their own banks, let alone two or three? How many didn't actually care for money like Steve Jobs? How many actually put their own wealth at risk as Steve Jobs did at least twice. Steve Jobs had the courage of his convictions, and wanted to shape the world in the way he saw fit. He did so, people loved his products, and he became extremely wealthy.
So only those who seek the limelight are worthy of 'fame'? As Ritchie didn't do so he is not worthy. But because Jobs was charismatic and worked it his adult life, he therefore is? Yeah, who is missing the point?
He didn't just have a reputation as being a hard taskmaster, he was an abusive boss, an asshole, a theif, a liar, and a borderline sociopath. A simple search bears out that truth from former employees op-eds when he died to Walter Issacson's biography. Jobs never put his own wealth at risk as at his death his personal wealth was predominantly in Disney who bought Pixar. For someone who 'didn't care about money', why did he lie to his friend Woz about the money Atari offered so that in the end, after Woz did the work, he got several hundred dollars and Steve kept several thousand dollars?
He is exactly like the sociopaths in the banking world. They did the same sorts of things - lied, cheated, manipulated, etc. They and their companies destroyed their industry. This is about the men not the particular 'industry' they are in, but hey you knew that didn't you?
Jobs didn't have the courage of his convictions. What a load of BS. He used people. He took ideas from others. He pushed people abusively. He had his vision and damn anyone who didn't agree with that vision. And Apple is the same. We don't want Google Maps so therefore you as our customer don't want it either even if we give you an inferior product.
Yep. That man has my respect. BTW, I would've modded you up for that comment, but I already posted here...
IMHO Samsung copied Apple products make it them shameless identical.
It is OK for other companies to rip off Apple designs.
Because they are not originals.
Like it is OK that the cars from Japan, Taiwan, Germany look alike and not one of them feels "ripped off".
Like it is OK that televisionset from Philips, Samsung, Grundig etc. look alike and not one of them feels "ripped off".
How long must his list be for you to understand that originality was something that maybe Adam and Eve had but no one after that.
Human being learn by imitating, just like primates and most other mamals, we can only benefit from it. Forbidding to imitate means blocking progress.
If you do not have Quicktime installed it is now impossible to access the Apple website. Yep, those guys are marketing geniuses, block access to the site through which you sell your computers to a large percentage of people who run your competitors OS's.
There are Quicktime plugins for all OS that matter as desktop systems.
no one outside mac os x is interested in bloated quicktime for windows
True, but the plugin exists nonetheless.
totem plugin works with quicktime videos Edited 2012-10-08 21:08 UTC
I like don't love the video because it looks like a powerpoint presentation or something equally cheap
I wish there was the same public recognition of Dennis Ritchie's death, and his incredible legacy, but I'm afraid it's not going to happen. He, Ken Thompson, and others at Bell Labs, created an infrastructure that has stood the test of time. I'm sure Unix will still be here in one form or another long after other operating systems have come and gone. But Steve Jobs, love him or hate him ( or be conflicted about him, as I am), was a rock star. It doesn't make sense, but it doesn't have to.
Lets assume people copy things from Apple verbatim. Tony Swash, Hiev, others: What do you think should happen to Apple when they copy things from other people? You all want to see Samsung punished (and maybe rightfully so). So what should the punishment be for Apple? I mean, lets look at all the "things" they have stolen:
1. They used Nokia IP for "years" without a license
1b. They still have not paid a license fee to Samsung for FRAND IP, which Samsung is guaranteed to get.
2. They basically ripped off Kobfabulator
3. Apple copied notifications, Easy photo embedding, priority inboxes,.... quite a few things from Android
4. the clock interface from swiss rail
5. Heres a list of things they copied from Windows:
Where does it end? Or will you finally agree that everyone uses the best attributes they know of when they design anything. To do otherwise is to intentionally create a bad product. Apple uses plenty of things they didn't create. Its time to give up the lawsuits and start making better products. Edited 2012-10-06 02:35 UTC
There does not seem to be a video there.
on edit: Had to have QuickTime installed to see it Edited 2012-10-06 02:54 UTC
Maybe it's all a facade and Tim Cook actually welcomes the demise of Steve Jobs, since he gets the CEO position, more money and financial security in a bad economy.
QUESTION: What would Steve Jobs do if he were alive today?
ANSWER: Frantically claw at the lid of his coffin.
Jobs was a gutless, egomaniacal control freak one-percenter who thought he invented frickin' rectangles, and even sued the Beatles for their Apple name. He was scum while he was alive, and he's scum in the grave.
When did Steve Jobs sue The Beatles?
It's futile to argue with Thom as he really seems not to understand the difference between copying and stealing, Pablo style.
When you copy, then you create a thing that is indistinguishable from the original, usually you do that without any innovation, inspiration, knowing the "why" and etc. It's plagiarism.
When you steal, Pablo style, opposed to the usual sense of the word, you copy the innovation, inspiration, and knowing the "why" to create your own product.
It's copying the origin of the product, the idea, or part of it, not the product itself.
At least that's what I understood.
May Thom forgive me.
The quote has been explained quite a few times. I'm sure Thom and other Apple/Steve haters understand it, but they keep pretending they don't.
That's why Thom and others never discus it, instead replying with silly one liners or sidestepping it entirely.
It's sad that someone who claims to find it imporant we should know our history rewrites it simply because he hates a person and his company, although he did buy an iMac.
Except, Picasso never bloody well said that! That is revisionism and worship of Jobs at its best. It was T.S. Elliot who said something along those lines. Then Jobs uttered that it was Picasso, warped it to fit his need, and here we are today arguing over the content that he couldn't even get right.
Look, Jobs was a brilliant narcissist. He could say exactly what someone, anyone wanted to hear. He always had a justification for his behavior, good or bad, and said and did the opposite with regards to others. He 'copied' and 'innovated' on the shoulders of others. But god damned if any body else can do that with Apple.
The Reality Distortion Field is a part of the charm of a narcissist. Apple & Jobs said never would they produce a 7" iPad, yet here we are a month away from the production of one. It will be over-priced, shiny, and with the Apple logo something that all 'people' just have got to have. That is the legacy of Jobs, and what history will remember is not what Apple & Jobs gave but rather what a sociopathic CEO & his company took from the computing industry.
Picasso did say that and Elliot said "Immature poets imitate. Mature poets steal". So Picasso probably got inspired by Elliot and Steve quoted Picasso.
But it doesn't really matter who said what, but rather what it means. What it means is explained here a few times and can be found on a number of sites.
Repeating a meme doesn't make it true. It is a rumor, and it was T.S. Elliot (who didn't even use those words!) and many before him including Shakespeare.
The point is that Jobs used that quote to justify his 'way' but is it ok now for others to 'steal' from Apple and innovate the future of mobile computing as well?
For the current crop of Apple supporters, the answer is no. For those of us neutral to corporate love but following the tech industry closely because it is either our work or influences greatly our work & culture, if the answer is no, the consequences are not good for all us.
Steve didn't justify, he explained how he and Apple worked.
How business is conducted by Apple and others these days is something you can discuss in great lengths, but it doesn't have any influence on what Steve meant with that quote which a number of people are unable to understand or simple refuse to understand.
I understand perfectly well what he meant and why he said it. I can also look at how he and Apple acted prior to that and after that including now with companies like Samsung.
It is pointless to get you or any Apple supporter to actually look at facts within context.
The dumbing down of western culture indeed and the rise of the superstar sociopath CEO's. Edited 2012-10-07 14:41 UTC
You may understand it, or at least say you do, but many others don't.
Wether Apple is hypocritical about it doesn't matter and another discussion, although I don't doubt you can make a good case about that they are.
The only thing I tried to do was explain the quote which so many Apple/Steve haters misuse.
It's okay to not like some person or some company, but when wrong arguments are presented I simply try to correct them.
In each Apple related discussion, which is about almost every topic on this site, I see people say or claim "facts" about Apple, Steve Jobs or their hard- and software that aren't true. And it's sad that when someone explains why it's not true they get modded down and people who write childish, wrong or illogical stuff get modded up and cheered on.
When I was full-time in to Linux the same thing happened with Microsoft and Bill Gates. I didn't like Windows or Microsoft, but in the end I spend time more defending them than I did promoting Linux.
What happened to Samsung was totally deserved.
It's not round corners and dumb lawyers or jury.
Samsung copied iPhone almost to the last milimeter.
They did a clone of the iPhone, a little better in quality when compared to Chinese clones, but in essence - they copied.
Apple is totally right when it goes after iPhone cloners and tells them to make their own phones.
Samsung's Galaxy S3 is a step to the right direction.
But Apple made them do it.
I hope we'll see more original phones, creative competition, and therefore, less litigation.
FYI, I am not an (exclusive) Apple fan. I own both an (older) iPhone and a (more modern) Android phone (2.2). I like iOS better because it has more unix in it, and can be used as a very portable unix machine with terminal etc. I cannot say that about Android.
I don't know if Steve did or didn't say that, but he did say a number of things only to change his mind later on.
At the time the were designing the iPad they thought they had the right size. Times and technology change, making it possible to make a smaller tablet that doesn't suck. Had the released a much smaller iPad in 2010 it would indeed have been "just a big iPod touch". Now they can do more pixels.
There is also some marketing involved sometimes. For example Steve said they wouldn't do a video iPod and then they did. Had Steve admitted they were going to do one the sales of the current models would have plummeted.
Apple tends to deny doing anything until they have already done it. They don't announce products before they are ready to be shipped. If they want to let the public know in advance they prefer to leak stuff to the WSJ for example.
If one reads the Steve Jobs biography you'd know he tends to say no to a lot of things until he's really convinced and his no turns in to a big yes.
He said "These are among the reasons we think the current crop of 7-inch tablets are going to be DOA, dead on arrival."
The reasons are 6 in total, 3 related to the screen size, 3 aren't. It's about the "current crop", this was in October 2010. How well did those 7" tablets do? I can't even name any.
I can only conclude that he was right at that moment in time. Now Apple can put more pixels on the screen, meaning a smaller iPad can still display everything a normal iPad can. They couldn't do that in 2010, meaning a 7" iPad would have sucked.
Many of us predicted that eventually Apple would do a 7" and the faithful followers were respond exactly as you have.
Humans are sadly predictable when they refuse to think critically.
I won't try debate with you further. Enjoy your morning.
It's afternoon here, but never mind that.
I gave no opinion on whether Apple would/should do a smaller iPad. The only thing I did was put Steve's words in to context.
At the time, October 2010, he was right. Right now there is no 7" iPad. The only thing that is here is a rumor that they might announce once this month, 2 years later compared to 2010.
What a lot of anti-Apple folks predicted was that the large iPod touch would fail, this didn't happen.
You seem like a smart person, which makes it disappointing you continue to ignore arguments and use quotes out of context. If that what it takes to be "right" it almost always means you're not.
Do you know the origin of the word "idiot"? It is from the Greek meaning to lack expertise or knowledge. I would say that perfectly describe you even though my post never once directly called you one.
Sorry, I am not a 'fandroid'. Never have been. Sorry, I have used Apple products since they began. I have also used Sun, Microsoft, HP, NeXT, etc. Sorry, I didn't take Jobs statements out of context.
Read this link: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57486733-37/heres-apples-e-mail-t...
It is quite representative of what the industry and media were led to believe by Jobs comments on the 7" tablets. Here is the relevant sentence: "Jobs was known to flip-flop on major ideas, and misdirect about potential business avenues, though his comments about smaller tablets suggested the company would never go that direction."
Look, enjoy your choice of computing platform. I would never want to deny you that choice. But, if you and others try to deny my choices, then I will call you out. And Apple's ridiculous patent 'victories' are going to continue to have a chilling effect on the future of choice in the computing industry.
It is always fascinating to watch the human mind go through defenses and projections in order to align its choices with the opposing reality of what is. That is delusion.
Appletroll calling everybody who doesn't bow down to steve jobs image an apple and steve jobs hater
Ah, the Fin who hates Finland. Could you show me where I ever asked someone to bow for Steve Jobs or for that matter any one else?
so you hate finland troll idiot go and ride your ibrator!
No, I don't hate Finland.
Most Dutch like the northern countries and people, but most Dutch don't know you I guess. Still, I don't think a single person would be able to change the opinion of a large mass regarding an entire country, even if he's totally weird.
Hitler? (Godwin hammer strikes down!)
Though I guess you can't say he did it alone... but OTOH, not even strictly to his own country (and nobody seems to hate Austria, even)
Cleveland seems to be not so popular, although it isn't a country despite the name.
My previous post was down-modded?!?!? Awww, what's wrong, guys, didn't you like my tribute? Maybe I should try that again:
RIP Steve, never before has a major company had a CEO who looked so much like the Balok puppet from Star Trek:
Here's hoping Clint Howard plays Jobs in the inevitable biopic, he'd be perfect. "You can use rounded corners on rectangles if and when I authorize it... if and when I AUTHORIZE IT!"
I expect, at least, some awesome documentary about Dennis Ritchie
"In this Interview James Turner asked some questions about Xerox PARC and the development of the Mac (to Andy Hertzfeld):
JT: Was there any feeling among the Apple engineers that any – guilt is probably too strong a word, but feeling like you know Xerox had these great ideas. I guess Xerox really let them go to waste but–
AH: Oh there was nothing like that; Steve Jobs has a good quote. It’s actually a Picasso quote that he often cites; he cited it at one of our retreats which was sort of good artists copy; great artists steal. And what that means is that when you’re passionate about what you’re doing you’ll take ideas from anywhere and with no guilt. You want to make the best possible thing and that was our mentality.
JT: I have to say I actually worked for Xerox AI Systems in 1986 and it was kind of frustrating because they really had the mentality there that if you couldn’t sell paper and toner for [them] they weren’t interested.
AH: Oh sure. Xerox in a well-documented fashion – they had at least the possibility of having the world at their feet there with the work that Alan Kay and his team did. But yeah; they completely blew it and most of the best PARC people were really frustrated by the Xerox management. There’s no doubt of that; that’s one of the reasons why Steve Jobs is great. You had someone leading the company who could relate to the customers and appreciate things.
This in no way changes that SJ was, say, a total hypocrite and lacking integrity when he accused Android of being a "stolen product" - and launched Patent World War based on that...
Overall it's probably safe to say that he presented the past simply as was convenient to him.
(yes, past tenses; you write in present tenses, it almost seems like you think that SJ has anything to say at all: http://www.osnews.com/permalink?537794 - you have... issues, if you think that)
the apple-hate was a bit charming and even occasionally accurate when apple was nearly out of business 15 years ago.
the apple-hate now -- with apple making better products, more revenue, more profit, and still higher customer satisfaction ratings than their competitors around the world -- is just creepy and sad.
OSX is open-step v 10, which lives on top of berkley unix. every mac shipped for years can run windows and linux natively and fast. you'd think geeks would appreciate that. most do except the irrational haters.
Apple Inc. designs and has manufactures the best mobile hardware in the business, and has been leading the mobile market in case design, battery life, screen tech, wifi, and other areas for over a decade now. you'd think most geeks would appreciate that (and in the states they do, as most linux conferences show macbooks as the preferred rig). but not here with the haters. do you really believe nokia, samsung, and motorola would have gotten us to where we are now without chasing apple?
I do like OSNews and i've liked it since i dual booted my mac into BeOS a long time ago. I laugh at the difference in markets between the states and holland, as apple is becoming more common than apple pie over here.
Yeah, nice commercial. Also don't forget Freedom costs a buck-o-five. Capitalizing on the dead to move units? Old hat.