Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 19th Oct 2012 13:56 UTC
Apple "Looking at the stats for all our apps (we have 4 universal apps with almost 3 million downloads) and for all versions after a month gives an interesting picture." Close to 70% is on iOS 6 already. In the meantime, Sony just announced it's going to leave loads of users in the cold by not upgrading their phones to Jelly Bean. Those that do have an update in the pipeline will have to wait until next year.
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The coming of the Nexusi...
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Fri 19th Oct 2012 14:04 UTC
Bill Shooter of Bul
Member since:
2006-07-14

There are rumors swirling that Google is partnering with LG, HTC, Samsung and Sony are about to unleash new nexus smart phones. I think the idea is to push stock android on more devices that can be updated more frequently than what the manufacturers can do right now.

Also, with that being said, I think the IOS 6 numbers are expected to be low as people hold off on the upgrade until they know maps is okay. I navigated with a friend using ios 6 maps last weekend. It worked fine. I imagine it would for any non major city goer who doesn't need public transportation routing, if they're still in a populated area.

Reply Score: 1

RE: The coming of the Nexusi...
by jared_wilkes on Fri 19th Oct 2012 15:11 UTC in reply to "The coming of the Nexusi..."
jared_wilkes Member since:
2011-04-25

Even Nexus devices get updates months after availability.

iOS 6 adoption is not low -- by any measure. That's the point. It is absurdly high and achieved at a pace that hardly has any peer to speed of adoption -- whether mobile or any other platform type. It's 50-70% already (by various measures comparable to this). By what measure is that low?

The FUD on Maps has been absurdly overblown.

Edited 2012-10-19 15:22 UTC

Reply Score: 1

Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

I would expect that the adoption of ios6 would be slower than the adoption of ios5.

The Maps situation is not all FUD. Like I said with the previous post, its better on ios6 for many people, worse for others (ie, those that need public transit routing). If I lived in the urban areas like NY, Chicago, Boston, Washington DC, London, Paris, Brussels, Amsterdam, Madrid, Toronto, Barcelona, ect, I would not recommend the upgrade to IOS 6.

Reply Score: 3

jared_wilkes Member since:
2011-04-25

But you are wrong: iOS6 adoption is occuring faster than iOS5.

I am not stating that Maps is devoid of any problems (Google Maps can't even say that). I AM stating that Maps is not slowing iOS6 adoption, that your "recommendation" is poor advice, and that making that unsupported claim, that iOS6 adoption is being and should be slowed because of Maps, is merely FUD.

Edited 2012-10-19 15:55 UTC

Reply Score: 0

Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

I'll admit I haven't looked at the rate of adoption and compared it to IOS 5's.

But if you use maps on your phone to navigate public transportation... wouldn't it make sense to stay on ios5? Why would you upgrade to make your life more difficult? Have you spent time in a city with good public transportation? Google maps makes it nice and easy even for an occasional city goer like myself. Its easier to blend in with everyone who does navigate buses and trains more frequently and lower my profile as an easy mark for mugging.

Reply Score: 2

jared_wilkes Member since:
2011-04-25

Everytime I have attempted to use Google Transit maps in a major city, I find their schedules hugely inaccurate, or at least much less accurate than the frequency of the public transit itself so I have found little value to them, as the public transit is loaded with the needed maps and/or other people likewise using the transit are more knowledgable about directions than Google is.

Also, I find the 3rd party public transit apps available to iOS far superior to iOS5 Maps.

No, I would not deny myself access to all of the features of iOS6 simply because of Maps -- no matter which location I lived in.

Edited 2012-10-19 17:34 UTC

Reply Score: 1

Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

Its always worked perfectly for me, barring any accidents/delays/construction.

You DO NOT want to ask other people for directions on mass transit in some areas,or be caught looking at a map/schedule for too long. That is asking to be mugged or worse.

For many people in the city Google maps is the killer app that convinced them to pony up to smartphone land. Anything else is not nearly as important.

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: The coming of the Nexusi...
by riha on Fri 19th Oct 2012 18:46 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: The coming of the Nexusi..."
riha Member since:
2006-01-24

What has to be remembered also is the fact that what is considered bad in one area of the world is not the same in another area.
For those somplaining about the maps in ios6, it is quite easy to go to google maps in browser and then turn that page into an app and voila, you now have google maps on your phone again.

Reply Score: 2

jared_wilkes Member since:
2011-04-25

I lived in the heart of Oakland for more than 5 years. I don't live in fear.

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: The coming of the Nexusi...
by leos on Fri 19th Oct 2012 20:43 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: The coming of the Nexusi..."
leos Member since:
2005-09-21

You DO NOT want to ask other people for directions on mass transit in some areas,or be caught looking at a map/schedule for too long. That is asking to be mugged or worse.


So what you're saying is that looking at a paper schedule or talking to someone will get you mugged, but pulling out a $600 smartphone will not? Hmmm..

Edited 2012-10-19 20:43 UTC

Reply Score: 2

henderson101 Member since:
2006-05-30

Pity the public transport info in Google Maps is so useless outside of the US.

Reply Score: 3

jared_wilkes Member since:
2011-04-25

Also, do you have an iPhone?

Reply Score: 1

Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

Half of me has two of them.

Reply Score: 2

jared_wilkes Member since:
2011-04-25

What is that supposed to mean?

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: The coming of the Nexusi...
by macUser on Fri 19th Oct 2012 21:10 UTC in reply to "RE: The coming of the Nexusi..."
macUser Member since:
2006-12-15

There is no FUD on Maps. It is utterly craptastic and unusable. I have zero faith in the results after it left my wife stranded and her ride 20 minutes away scratching their head.

I dropped a pin of her location to her ride and messaged the pin to her ride. The ride, received a completely different pin location 20 minutes away! Both phones were iOS6. There is no free pass on this. If Maps isn't made trustworthy my next phone will not be from Apple.

Reply Score: 6

dsmogor Member since:
2005-09-01

Why not just buy a 3rd pary app? There's plenty of choice including offkine navigation.

Edited 2012-10-21 12:47 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: The coming of the Nexusi...
by dvhh on Sat 20th Oct 2012 05:13 UTC in reply to "RE: The coming of the Nexusi..."
dvhh Member since:
2006-03-20

yes especially after the Apple fans created so much buzz about it ( see http://www.osnews.com/story/25940/Apple_s_coming_map_application_wi... )

Reply Score: 3

RE: The coming of the Nexusi...
by redshift on Sat 20th Oct 2012 05:40 UTC in reply to "The coming of the Nexusi..."
redshift Member since:
2006-05-06

There are rumors swirling that Google is partnering with LG, HTC, Samsung and Sony are about to unleash new nexus smart phones. I think the idea is to push stock android on more devices that can be updated more frequently than what the manufacturers can do right now.

Also, with that being said, I think the IOS 6 numbers are expected to be low as people hold off on the upgrade until they know maps is okay. I navigated with a friend using ios 6 maps last weekend. It worked fine. I imagine it would for any non major city goer who doesn't need public transportation routing, if they're still in a populated area.


The maps have been ok... but it is not very good at finding things by topic. If you have an address you will probably be ok. However, It did tell my friend that his destination was an onramp in florida... but he was close enough that he got where he was going in the end.

I miss the the public transportation maps... the modules I have tried are not as good as Googles. You can get walking instructions out of apples maps... but the UI did not make it obvious at first.

Reply Score: 2

Interesting but...
by gpsnoopy on Fri 19th Oct 2012 14:27 UTC
gpsnoopy
Member since:
2007-04-17

The sampling method is very biased, as it accounts only for the people who have upgraded to the latest version of Discovr Music.

The only conclusion that can be drawn is that there is a high correlation between upgrading to the latest Discovr Music and upgrading to the latest iOS.

(Or as I like to read it: people who like to upgrade software upgrade their software)

Such sampling method is incompatible with the official results from Google. To get comparable results, we need a similar approach from Apple.

Reply Score: 6

RE: Interesting but...
by jared_wilkes on Fri 19th Oct 2012 15:15 UTC in reply to "Interesting but..."
jared_wilkes Member since:
2011-04-25

No, the data isn't predicated on updating the app; the app, upgraded or not, reports the OS being used (the post states that the data is provided for their 4 apps, across all versions in use).

I have no idea what you mean by this is inconsistent with Google sampling methods because there is no data for Google whatsoever in the post, but everyone knows uptake of the latest Google update is objectively bad. Different methods of data collection (and visiting Google Play within a certain timeframe is a rather poor measure anyway, it shouldn't be a standard method of measuring OS adoption) isn't going to alter the enormous disparity between the 2 platforms.

Edited 2012-10-19 15:21 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Interesting but...
by gpsnoopy on Fri 19th Oct 2012 15:28 UTC in reply to "RE: Interesting but..."
gpsnoopy Member since:
2007-04-17

The link within the article states that they only consider the new version of Discovr Music. See 2nd paragraph of http://discovr.info/2012/10/discovr-ios-6-adoption-tops-77-iphone-5...

For the Google numbers: "[...] based on the number of Android devices that have accessed Google Play within a 14-day period ending on the data collection date noted below." (http://developer.android.com/about/dashboards/index.html)

Note that the phone periodically connects to Google Play for updates by default. No user interaction is needed, except that the phone has to be turned on.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Interesting but...
by jared_wilkes on Fri 19th Oct 2012 15:40 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Interesting but..."
jared_wilkes Member since:
2011-04-25

No, that post says that while he was looking at data for one of his app's updates, he was taken by the rate of adoption of iOS. For the subset of those updating the one app, the adoption rate for iOS is 77%. It never states that the data in the post Thom links is only the subset of those updating the 1 app; it states the opposite. The link provided by Thom specifically states the data is across all versions of all 4 of their apps. And here we see that the adoption rate across all 4 apps and all versions is, as expected, lower but comparably high (55%-70%).

I know how Google measures OS update releases. I'm stating that its a poor measure -- Apple doesn't have to indirectly record other OEM's devices through a store. And I'm also stating that the disparity is so huge that handwaving about different methods of arriving at the results is absurd. There is no data collection method that is ever going to show Android uptake remotely close to iOS uptake.

Edited 2012-10-19 15:57 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Interesting but...
by gpsnoopy on Fri 19th Oct 2012 15:59 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Interesting but..."
gpsnoopy Member since:
2007-04-17

I missed the first graph picture due to an office filter. But I found it funny that it proves my point that the sampling is biased.

The second paragraph that I pointed out earlier, gives 77% iOS6 on the 10 October as it's only considering the latest version of Discovr Music. While the graph in the new post states ~60% on the same date as it consider a larger sample (four apps and several versions). That's a pretty large difference. And the larger sample is still heavily biased as it's related to one vendor with its user base, and not randomly sampled across every iPhone/iPad owner.

I don't understand why you think that the Google method is so flawed. All Android devices apart from the Kindle regularly connects to Google Play for automatic updates.

How is considering only 4 apps from one vendor in the App Store better?

iOS 6 adoption rate might be great, but I still long for Apple to publish results, and if possible on a larger less biased sample. For the moment, only Google does.

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Interesting but...
by jared_wilkes on Fri 19th Oct 2012 16:03 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Interesting but..."
jared_wilkes Member since:
2011-04-25

You decided to look at a link that's not posted and are crying foul that the data represents exactly what it says it does? That's silliness.

And I don't understand why you think any, consistent data collection widely-accepted by one and all as reliable and effective, applied across both platforms is going to show anything other than Android uptake being much, much, much worse than iOS uptake. Trying to discredit reasonable evidence that only purports to be exactly what it is doesn't change reality.

I didn't say this was a better measure. I believe it is a reasonable estimate. The question posed to you by your assertions is: is this estimate so unreasonably inaccurate as to point to the belief that a more accurate estimate would show Google uptake comparable to iOS uptake? The answer is clearly no. Otherwise, you are just handwaving.

Edited 2012-10-19 16:06 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Interesting but...
by gpsnoopy on Fri 19th Oct 2012 17:12 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Interesting but..."
gpsnoopy Member since:
2007-04-17

The question posed to you by your assertions is: is this estimate so unreasonably inaccurate as to point to the belief that a more accurate estimate would show Google uptake comparable to iOS uptake?


I'm pointing out that the sampling method is highly biased and that it gives huge variation in the results, and must be considered as such.

A more realistic view may lead to a completely different conclusions. For example, on iOS fragmentation or others.

Google provides a good market overview of each Android version that is regularly updated, which is why I mention it.

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: Interesting but...
by jared_wilkes on Fri 19th Oct 2012 17:40 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Interesting but..."
jared_wilkes Member since:
2011-04-25

No, you are not. Don't throw around words like "highly biased". Your only initial basis for such a claim is that it measured updaters so people who update are likely to update other things as well. But you now know you are incorrect on that matter. I see no bias in one source providing data from the only source available to them.

You haven't shown huge variation. Their data showing highly penetration in the updates to one app is not a "huge variation" from the data set measuring all of their apps and all of their versions: that is an expected result of the data set.

You have not presented any evidence, any realism, or any logic to support the claim that this data set is disparate from any other data set. There is no reason to believe that you could likely arrive at a completely different conclusion.

And the point of the article is to tell us that Google is more fragmented and slower to be updated than iOS. But you won't accept this because you are living in denial. Everyone knows this and innumerable data sets show the same thing as this data: iOS is the most rapidly updated platform ever and completely crushes Android with regard to uptake and fragmentation.

Reply Score: 1

v RE[5]: Interesting but...
by jared_wilkes on Fri 19th Oct 2012 16:04 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Interesting but..."
RE[6]: Interesting but...
by Thom_Holwerda on Fri 19th Oct 2012 16:07 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Interesting but..."
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Oh, and the Kindle Fire is not an Android device!


Why not? Just because it has a different skin? Does Windows cease to be Windows when you run Litestep instead of the Explorer shell?

Reply Score: 2

v RE[7]: Interesting but...
by jared_wilkes on Fri 19th Oct 2012 16:10 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Interesting but..."
RE[5]: Interesting but...
by jared_wilkes on Fri 19th Oct 2012 16:15 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Interesting but..."
jared_wilkes Member since:
2011-04-25

You "long" for Apple to publish data? Seriously? Apple usually does provide an update at their events. iOS 6 has been available for 30 days. They have an event in a little more than 3 days. Your LONGING shall soon be satiated in all likelihood.

Reply Score: 3

RE[6]: Interesting but...
by gpsnoopy on Fri 19th Oct 2012 17:04 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Interesting but..."
gpsnoopy Member since:
2007-04-17

Apple does not provide iOS version shares on the global market. They only publish partial numbers (e.g. US market only) when it suits their presentation.

Apple has nothing comparable to the Google Android Dashboard.

Reply Score: 0

RE[7]: Interesting but...
by jared_wilkes on Fri 19th Oct 2012 17:50 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Interesting but..."
jared_wilkes Member since:
2011-04-25

Apple does provide worldwide OS upgrade data.

Apple doesn't need a dashboard to inform developers what small sliver of a % of potential users may or may not be able to use their apps. iOS developers KNOW that within days of release 50%+ of the entire population of active iOS users will be using the latest software.

Edited 2012-10-19 17:52 UTC

Reply Score: 3

Out in the cold
by unoengborg on Fri 19th Oct 2012 14:30 UTC
unoengborg
Member since:
2005-07-06

The Sony users may have been left out in the cold, but thay can at least still use Google maps to find their way home

Reply Score: 10

RE: Out in the cold
by shotsman on Fri 19th Oct 2012 17:32 UTC in reply to "Out in the cold"
shotsman Member since:
2005-07-22

Sigh

Not had enough of your Anti-Apple medicine today then? (sarcasm implied)

I don't have an iPhone but an HTC Android phone but even I know that iPhone users can still use Google Maps just by directing their web browser to google maps.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Out in the cold
by unoengborg on Sat 20th Oct 2012 00:56 UTC in reply to "RE: Out in the cold"
unoengborg Member since:
2005-07-06

Sigh

Not had enough of your Anti-Apple medicine today then? (sarcasm implied)

I don't have an iPhone but an HTC Android phone but even I know that iPhone users can still use Google Maps just by directing their web browser to google maps.


No, not nearly enough to keep quiet.

It is true they that can use the web, but then they don't get turn by turn navigation like you get on Android.

We are expected to pay premium prices for Apple phones and we should expect premium quality products. The state of Apple maps is far from that. It is beta quality at best. So I think Apple deserves all they can get. Delivering something like this is totally out of character for them.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Out in the cold
by brichpmr on Sat 20th Oct 2012 15:51 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Out in the cold"
brichpmr Member since:
2006-04-22

"Sigh

Not had enough of your Anti-Apple medicine today then? (sarcasm implied)

I don't have an iPhone but an HTC Android phone but even I know that iPhone users can still use Google Maps just by directing their web browser to google maps.


No, not nearly enough to keep quiet.

It is true they that can use the web, but then they don't get turn by turn navigation like you get on Android.

We are expected to pay premium prices for Apple phones and we should expect premium quality products. The state of Apple maps is far from that. It is beta quality at best. So I think Apple deserves all they can get. Delivering something like this is totally out of character for them.
"



I get turn by turn voice nav on IOS6 with Apple's Maps....worked perfectly last weekend in the suburbs of Philly....we were quite pleased with the accuracy. Anecdote I know, but just saying......

Edited 2012-10-20 15:55 UTC

Reply Score: 2

v Denial is pathetic
by Tony Swash on Fri 19th Oct 2012 17:25 UTC
RE: Denial is pathetic
by galvanash on Sat 20th Oct 2012 01:21 UTC in reply to "Denial is pathetic"
galvanash Member since:
2006-01-25

Who is that directed at? I'm just really curious since as far as I can tell the article you just lashed out at supports most of your post...

Where are the clever arguments, rubbish statistics, or speculative claims you are referring to? Maybe you meant to reply to a specific comment?

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Denial is pathetic
by Soulbender on Sat 20th Oct 2012 06:44 UTC in reply to "RE: Denial is pathetic"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

No, he's just insecure in his choice of brand loyalty.

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: Denial is pathetic
by brichpmr on Sat 20th Oct 2012 15:54 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Denial is pathetic"
brichpmr Member since:
2006-04-22

No, he's just insecure in his choice of brand loyalty.



Or maybe "someone" is insecure in someone else's choice of brand.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Denial is pathetic
by Soulbender on Sun 21st Oct 2012 01:26 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Denial is pathetic"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Not really, no.

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Denial is pathetic
by brichpmr on Sun 21st Oct 2012 14:06 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Denial is pathetic"
brichpmr Member since:
2006-04-22

His comparison of update frequency between IOS and Android platforms is rather accurate in my experience.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Denial is pathetic
by pooo on Sun 21st Oct 2012 14:50 UTC in reply to "Denial is pathetic"
pooo Member since:
2006-04-22

It is so clear I'm not sure why there was even an article about this. You may as well write an article saying how awesome android is because 99% of users have functioning turn by turn navigation and have for the last few years. Yeah, we get it, they are different and have different pros/cons. There are debatable strengths that might make for interesting news but this is really pointless.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Denial is pathetic
by pooo on Sun 21st Oct 2012 14:53 UTC in reply to "RE: Denial is pathetic"
pooo Member since:
2006-04-22

Actually 70% is laughably *low* considering apple's update model. Updates are so seamless on ios that means 30% (!!!) have willingly decided to refuse the update because they've heard about problems with ios6. I bet the large majority of those are refusing because of maps. That is a pretty huge slap in the face for Apple! Lol!

Reply Score: 2