Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 30th Oct 2012 18:10 UTC
Windows Steve Ballmer has just announced that in the first three days of being on sale, more than 4 million people have bought the Windows 8 upgrade. This doesn't count OEM installations or Microsoft's own Surface - just individual upgrades. Definitely a promising start for Windows 8, but then, these are most likely enthusiasts (I'm one of those four million), so we still don't know a whole lot. I'm patiently waiting for the response from regular consumers.
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v WindowzzZ
by ParadoxUncreated on Tue 30th Oct 2012 18:20 UTC
RE: WindowzzZ
by Morgan on Wed 31st Oct 2012 00:39 UTC in reply to "WindowzzZ"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

You know it's funny; even with all those "200 processes" I still have minimal latency when playing my guitar through effects processors on Windows, yet on a Mac with GarageBand or a GNU/Linux box (even with a low latency kernel) I have all kinds of issues with latency. That's a big problem even for an amateur musician like me.

And before you say "but it's your hardware!", all three OSes are on an Intel Mac mini.

GNU/Linux is a great OS for a lot of things, but please, know what the hell you're talking about before making stupid statements like that.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: WindowzzZ
by Laurence on Wed 31st Oct 2012 11:06 UTC in reply to "RE: WindowzzZ"
Laurence Member since:
2007-03-26

What you're talking about is ASIO, and it's one of the few things I truly love about Windows.

Linux can do real time audio processing via jack. But it's not a patch on running your favourite VSTs on an ASIO interface in Windows.

I know there are professional producers who use Linux and enthusiasts who swear blind that Linux is good for music production - and with enough time and patience then I'm sure Linux could be. But as a full time Linux user myself, I'd still rather use my favourite Windows DAW and spend my time being creative rather than trying to build a competitive Linux audio platform. In fact that's the only reason I even keep a copy of Windows laying about.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: WindowzzZ
by Morgan on Wed 31st Oct 2012 14:00 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: WindowzzZ"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

What you're talking about is ASIO, and it's one of the few things I truly love about Windows.


You are correct sir!

Linux can do real time audio processing via jack. But it's not a patch on running your favourite VSTs on an ASIO interface in Windows.


That's been my experience as well. What I'm really looking forward to is some good modern DAW software for Haiku, assuming its audio server is as good as the BeOS one was.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: WindowzzZ
by bassbeast on Thu 1st Nov 2012 20:22 UTC in reply to "RE: WindowzzZ"
bassbeast Member since:
2007-11-11

Actually if the troll knew anything about system internals or how processes works then he would know that one advantage Windows 8 has over even Windows 7 is its "on demand" services subsystem, that activate services ONLY when they are needed and stops them when they aren't required. This is on top of the new audio subsystem that came in Win 7 which was designed for low latency and better mixing capability.

I too use effects for my bass on Windows, and even with a half a dozen effects loaded into Audacity its all fast and clean, gotta give MSFT credit for that, they did make Windows into a killer DAW.

Reply Score: 2

RE: WindowzzZ
by BeamishBoy on Wed 31st Oct 2012 04:17 UTC in reply to "WindowzzZ"
BeamishBoy Member since:
2010-10-27

That's a really funky version of XP you've got there. I've got an old laptop with XP and Process Explorer tells me it's running only forty processes.

Perhaps yours is a special halal version of XP that searches out and destroys anything coming over the network that contradicts "the standard values of no-promiscuity, no-homophilia, no-intoxicants, no-criminality of The Quran".

http://paradoxuncreated.com/Blog/wordpress/?page_id=2

Edited 2012-10-31 04:24 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: WindowzzZ
by WereCatf on Wed 31st Oct 2012 05:01 UTC in reply to "RE: WindowzzZ"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

Have you guys noticed how he never actually responds to anything whatsoever, he only goes on to blather about this "jitter" and how he has worked so and so hard to minimize it. Then he proceeds to make this or that ignorant and baseless comment about Windows and goes away, only to re-appear some other day again in another thread to repeat the same thing?

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: WindowzzZ
by Morgan on Wed 31st Oct 2012 06:18 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: WindowzzZ"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

Oh I know he's a classic troll, and I usually ignore him. But I happened to have been dealing with the sound latency issues I described above so I felt moved to comment. I know I won't get a response from him.

I am tempted (based on conversations you and I have had on Google+) to try a Gentoo install on my Mac mini. I wonder if I could "de-jitter" the kernel to the point where I have as low latency there as in Windows. ;)

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: WindowzzZ
by WereCatf on Wed 31st Oct 2012 08:34 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: WindowzzZ"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

I am tempted (based on conversations you and I have had on Google+) to try a Gentoo install on my Mac mini. I wonder if I could "de-jitter" the kernel to the point where I have as low latency there as in Windows. ;)


Gentoo is a lot of work, especially if you haven't used it before, but I love how it offers so much potential. As I have mentioned it literally flew even on my Nokia N900, and that thing is seriously underpowered. One just has to know what features to tick, which ones to leave out, and what CFLAGS to apply. Oh, and kernel configuration matters also quite a lot -- there's hundreds of pages of documentation on how to optimize the kernel for this or that task on Gentoo.

Granted, I don't do music stuff -- I'm about as creative as a round rock -- and therefore I can't offer much guidance on that, but atleast on Gentoo it's terribly easy to include support for JACK everywhere and leave PulseAudio out if you have no need for it, and a quick google reveals quite a few discussions about how to go about creating a real-time Gentoo-installation.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: WindowzzZ
by Morgan on Wed 31st Oct 2012 08:45 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: WindowzzZ"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

As I have mentioned it literally flew even on my Nokia N900, and that thing is seriously underpowered.


That's precisely the conversation I was referencing; if you remember I was kicking myself for selling my N900 after discussing that with you.

One just has to know what features to tick, which ones to leave out, and what CFLAGS to apply. Oh, and kernel configuration matters also quite a lot -- there's hundreds of pages of documentation on how to optimize the kernel for this or that task on Gentoo.


That's where it's going to be difficult for me. Right now the Mac mini is my "production" machine so I'll probably practice Gentoo on an older box I keep Win98 on for classic gaming and native BeOS. But, that means days of compiling vs hours. I think in the long run it's worth the effort though.

Granted, I don't do music stuff -- I'm about as creative as a round rock -- and therefore I can't offer much guidance on that, but atleast on Gentoo it's terribly easy to include support for JACK everywhere and leave PulseAudio out if you have no need for it, and a quick google reveals quite a few discussions about how to go about creating a real-time Gentoo-installation.


Hey, I'm probably not much better; for all of my 20 years of playing guitar and bass, I doubt even an amateur band would want me to fill in at a gig. I just do it for the love of the music and to keep my dexterity up. That said, I'm somewhat of a perfectionist when it comes to my sound, and I can't afford thousands of dollars of "real" gear so I settle for software processing.

I'll definitely explore some realtime Gentoo action. I may hit you up on G+ for general help along the way though. ;)

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: WindowzzZ
by Soulbender on Wed 31st Oct 2012 06:55 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: WindowzzZ"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Have you guys noticed how he never actually responds to anything whatsoever


Oh sometimes he does but it's just more insane drivel and nonsense.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: WindowzzZ
by marcp on Wed 31st Oct 2012 09:02 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: WindowzzZ"
marcp Member since:
2007-11-23

Oh, really? I don't know this guy, but he is NOT being aggressive in his post [he is just expressing his own thoughts on the subject], while user Morgan was ... Just take a look at his post and the ending.

That being said, I'm not shocked that the original poster did not want to reply to this. He's probobly affraid of being attacked again.

The real problem are people who bash others and call everyone a troll almost immediately. THAT looks like trolling to me.


P.S swearing is such a weak thing. Could you please stop doing this? show your dignity and don't swear in public.

Reply Score: 0

RE[4]: WindowzzZ
by Morgan on Wed 31st Oct 2012 09:34 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: WindowzzZ"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

Oh, really? I don't know this guy, but he is NOT being aggressive in his post [he is just expressing his own thoughts on the subject], while user Morgan was ... Just take a look at his post and the ending.


I know you've already spoken directly to me below, but since you keep bringing me up, I felt I should respond. I countered his take that Windows has severe latency problems with my own experiences on the matter. I said the word "hell" which is not even PG rated in most media. That's what people do on a discussion forum: They discuss things! I know it's a novel concept for you but you'll get the hang of it soon enough.

That being said, I'm not shocked that the original poster did not want to reply to this. He's probobly affraid of being attacked again.


I don't think he's afraid of anything; my past experience with talking to him has been that he is anything from dismissive to rude depending on the subject matter. He also tends to babble way off subject at times.

The real problem are people who bash others and call everyone a troll almost immediately. THAT looks like trolling to me.


Like you did to me below? Tit for tat, my friend.


P.S swearing is such a weak thing. Could you please stop doing this? show your dignity and don't swear in public.


OOPS! I said "tit" above, I hope I didn't burst your virgin ears with that one. First of all, if cursing were a problem here there would be a swear filter. The occasional expletive isn't going to kill anyone, and if someone doesn't want to see it there are plugins for all the major browsers that cover it. Instead of being passive-aggressive and telling others what to do, why don't you get off your virtual ass and install a filter if you object to it that much?

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: WindowzzZ
by marcp on Wed 31st Oct 2012 13:44 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: WindowzzZ"
marcp Member since:
2007-11-23

You see? that's what I'm talking about. You're constantly aggresive. You treat discussion as if it was some kind of stupid war. Come on, man, put that irritation off for once and try to be POLITE.

It's not about me, really. I'm observing you for quite some time and you're just almost always like this: you reply to posts with such repulsive manner. People are not your enemies, but fellow human beings.
Oh, and there is no "you're right = you win" stuff going on, whether you know it or not. It's an ego that makes people think this way and treat others as enemies.

I didn't really intend to defend that guy initially, but I'm just tired with people like you: aggressive, impolite types, willing to bash others at any chance.

Just to leave good impression in your mind: I wish you all best [sincerely], so please don't get me wrong. I have no interrest in being your or anyone else's enemy [or friend]. I just hope for the better internet and better communication between people.

Reply Score: 1

RE[6]: WindowzzZ
by Morgan on Wed 31st Oct 2012 14:07 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: WindowzzZ"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

And now I know without a doubt I'm being trolled.

I'm observing you for quite some time and you're just almost always like this: you reply to posts with such repulsive manner. People are not your enemies, but fellow human beings.


That's just plain creepy. I suppose I have a new stalker then. But if you've really "been observing" me for a while you'd know that that is simply not true. I am an easygoing person who is easy to get along with, but I'm not afraid to call out bullshit when I see it. I also respond in kind when I'm attacked, though lately I've been as keen to ignore the discussion when it reaches that point.

99 times out of 100, if you see me being defensive it's exactly that: A defensive posture against someone who chooses the low ground first. Also, people can engage in a friendly but heated discussion with no ill will towards one another. I have several "friends and fans" on here (check my profile -- oh wait, you've got a poster of it on your wall!) who I've had some lively discussions with but we get along fine.

Anyway, since you've outed yourself you should savor this post as it's the last time I'll ever respond to you.

Reply Score: 3

RE[7]: WindowzzZ
by WereCatf on Wed 31st Oct 2012 14:55 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: WindowzzZ"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

Also, people can engage in a friendly but heated discussion with no ill will towards one another. I have several "friends and fans" on here (check my profile -- oh wait, you've got a poster of it on your wall!) who I've had some lively discussions with but we get along fine.


This discussion of yours doesn't involve me and neither of you probably even care about me chiming in, but I just have to say I agree with Morgan here: having a heated argument with someone does not automatically mean less respect towards the other person or reflect how one sees one's opponent. I can certainly be quite opinionated myself at times and this can even lead to insults back and forth, but after the argument has cooled down I usually hold no ill will any longer.

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: WindowzzZ
by StephenBeDoper on Wed 31st Oct 2012 17:02 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: WindowzzZ"
StephenBeDoper Member since:
2005-07-06

You see? that's what I'm talking about. You're constantly aggresive. You treat discussion as if it was some kind of stupid war. Come on, man, put that irritation off for once and try to be POLITE.

It's not about me, really. I'm observing you for quite some time and you're just almost always like this: you reply to posts with such repulsive manner.


Seriously? For one, it's genuinely funny to see that sort of phrasing used ("repulsive manner") partially in defense of ParadoxUncreated - someone with a history of spewing hateful, homophobic insults at the drop of a hat.

For another... SERIOUSLY? IME, Morgan is one of the few regular commenters here who isn't permanently stuck in "flame warrior" mode.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: WindowzzZ
by BeamishBoy on Wed 31st Oct 2012 22:20 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: WindowzzZ"
BeamishBoy Member since:
2010-10-27

I've just spent some time reading his posts here, as well as his blog. He's terrifically mental.

It's genuinely disturbing that people like this actually exist outside of fiction.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: WindowzzZ
by bassbeast on Thu 1st Nov 2012 21:27 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: WindowzzZ"
bassbeast Member since:
2007-11-11

What is hilarious, at least to me, is he isn't even using the word correctly! Its obvious what he is describing is "skipping" and NOT jitter, which was the way the old CRTs would "flicker" from EMF interference.

And most likely the reason he is suffering from video skipping is that "Mr Leet" has gotten himself so badly pwned that he has more viruses than his machine can possibly run, but he's too "leet" to admit he don't know what he's doing and needs help.

We ran into one of these "leet" Linux users at the shop, he actually had an email relay installed on his machine because he thought Linux was "magical" and never needed updating and got himself pwned.

I do think its funny his "dirty poo poo head" word is faggot, as that seems to be the favorite word along with the N word for halo playing HS dropouts everywhere. I personally enjoy pointing out the foolishness of little smart mouths like this, picturing him foaming at the mouth like Angry German Kid while he screams "FAGGOT!" at the screen is really funny. Look at the previous post on Win 8, he ended up posting no less than NINETEEN TIMES just to call me a dirty poo poo head...now THAT is funny!

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: WindowzzZ
by Soulbender on Sat 3rd Nov 2012 05:02 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: WindowzzZ"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

like Angry German Kid while he screams "FAGGOT!" at the screen is really funny.


Sorry, couldn't resist:
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/online_gaming

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: WindowzzZ
by bassbeast on Sat 3rd Nov 2012 13:53 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: WindowzzZ"
bassbeast Member since:
2007-11-11

LOL thanks for that, I've actually been the guy abandoning the PC for the weekend rafting and enjoying the summer afternoon with my GF, and the reason i don't hardly play online anymore is too many games are FULL of those type.

Serious read that guy's history, he posted like NINETEEN times just to spew his favorite dirty word, talk about a Ritalin baby LOL! But what is funniest to me is to hear him attempt to "talk smart" and fit in, he uses words without any real grasp of the meanings, ending up sounding like this..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Izpa9D7c77U

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: WindowzzZ
by Morgan on Wed 31st Oct 2012 06:21 UTC in reply to "RE: WindowzzZ"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

Well I think I know just the thing to get him in a happier mood: Let's find him a slave-wife!

http://paradoxuncreated.com/Blog/wordpress/?p=321

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: WindowzzZ
by Soulbender on Wed 31st Oct 2012 07:06 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: WindowzzZ"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

But make sure she doesn't think unclean thoughts, especially not in a church or a mosque. Oh, and she cant be a lustcultivator.

I think he might have some issues.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: WindowzzZ
by marcp on Wed 31st Oct 2012 09:08 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: WindowzzZ"
marcp Member since:
2007-11-23

You are only showing your own attitude by going after this guy [original poster]. I don't think his main site is related in any way to his post on OSNews. He doesn't talk about religion and stuff. He wrote about Windows.
Stop trolling, Morgan.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: WindowzzZ
by Morgan on Wed 31st Oct 2012 09:18 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: WindowzzZ"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

You obviously haven't read any of his older posts. Go through his comment history and you'll understand what trolling really is. He most certainly does bring up religion to try to validate his views that Windows is a tool of the Devil.

I have nothing against him personally, but when you troll a tech site from time to time, then post on your public-facing blog that you're looking for a woman to be your slave, that's just asking for a joke at your expense.

Besides, this and my previous post are far off topic so they will likely get modded down soon enough, so why even worry about it?

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: WindowzzZ
by bassbeast on Thu 1st Nov 2012 21:32 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: WindowzzZ"
bassbeast Member since:
2007-11-11

Marc, click on his name, check his posting history. the guy is a foul mouthed little troll that ends up quoting scripture in the middle of arguments about OSes, I think the guy has had the cheese slip off his cracker. the fact that as Morgan pointed out he has posted in public no less that he is looking for a "slave wife" just makes the guy cannon fodder, i mean c'mon marc, how can you NOT enjoy ragging this crazy?

And since the guy is calling all of US dirty filthy things I think using his own words against him is 100% fair game, I mean he is calling werecat filthy names because she is gay yet he is looking for some S&M love slave? Give me a break!

Reply Score: 2

It's Another Windows 95!!
by benali72 on Tue 30th Oct 2012 18:34 UTC
benali72
Member since:
2008-05-03

Microsoft has long been expert at orchestrating the "sales stampede." I wouldn't put any credibility on any early sales figures they release.

Remember how they convinced US television to show pictures of people waiting in line to buy Windows 95? They're still at it.

Reply Score: 0

RE: It's Another Windows 95!!
by tylerdurden on Tue 30th Oct 2012 20:01 UTC in reply to "It's Another Windows 95!!"
tylerdurden Member since:
2009-03-17

Microsoft is not orchestrating anything. They have a de facto monopoly on Desktop operating systems, so it should be no surprise a huge amount of users update to their latest offering.

Wether you like it or not, millions of people are going to be using this OS. The windows ecosystem has a huge momentum (on the Desktop at least).

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: It's Another Windows 95!!
by hoak on Tue 30th Oct 2012 23:06 UTC in reply to "RE: It's Another Windows 95!!"
hoak Member since:
2007-12-17

Not Orchestrating anything? Really? You don't think the two billion $ U.S. Marketing campaign is 'orchestrating' anything?

That's certainly more then was spent on developing the new OS by a factor of about 40:1. And will be a time expenditure of marketing to development of cash of about 4000:1.

So, not 'orchestrating', this two billion $ U.S. is just 'good will spending'?

Please...

Reply Score: 1

UltraZelda64 Member since:
2006-12-05

Maybe if they would stop spending so much f***ing money on advertising, then we would no longer have to spend such outrageous amounts of money just to obtain a license to use their operating system. Of course, their monopoly doesn't help much either.

Reply Score: 1

bassbeast Member since:
2007-11-11

Dude, get real. The ads are NOT to sell Win 8, its to try to get people to take WinPhone and WinTab, because mobile is growing while desktops are flatline.

Want to know "the facts" here it is..1.-Windows desktops last longer than ever, so Wall Street style growth is nil there, 2.-Ballmer wants to be the head of Apple and not MSFT, 3.-Apple has an appstore and a tablet, so MSFT has to have an appstore and a tablet, 4.- they are practically giving it away and they ONLY got 4 million sales. Think about that, MSFT is selling the Win 8 PRO version for a lousy $40, and THAT is the best they could do?

So I'd say if anything they probably should have sunk MORE into advertising, because at 4 million that means they spent nearly...wow, $500 for every $40 sale...wow. That REALLY sucks, that is like Vista to the 20th power levels of suck.

Let's face it, don't really matter how much cash they blow, win 7 is the new XP, Win 8 the new Vista. 500 bucks a sale...wow, just wow.

Reply Score: 2

RE: It's Another Windows 95!!
by quackalist on Tue 30th Oct 2012 20:26 UTC in reply to "It's Another Windows 95!!"
quackalist Member since:
2007-08-27

Nor on any other 'sales figures'. Nonetheless, it's the de facto almost monopoly OS and they're really pushing it with the 'really cheap' upgrade download. I'd not be surprised if it sold well to those upgrading from XP/Vista and even those going legit from pirated windows. After all, it is Win 7 SP whatever and you can almost ignore the new UI bollocks. It'll sell like hotcakes even if the fundamentals incline towards Windows being doomed in the long run.


I'll be buying one myself, soon as I can afford a new SSD to run it on.

Edited 2012-10-30 20:28 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: It's Another Windows 95!!
by grumpyoldman on Tue 30th Oct 2012 21:12 UTC in reply to "RE: It's Another Windows 95!!"
grumpyoldman Member since:
2012-10-08

You are spot on with the price point of the update being an attractive draw.

General consumers once they see the shiny new bauble for that price, it will be hard to resist.

Reply Score: 2

lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

It isn't only that, I get a brand new OS for very little and as a web developer it is usually a good idea to keep up with newer tech.

Personally the upgrade process was almost painless. There were quite a few reboots (most were very short) and I had a running OS in about 30 minutes after I got hold of the upgrade media.

Edited 2012-10-31 07:16 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE: It's Another Windows 95!!
by kwan_e on Wed 31st Oct 2012 00:07 UTC in reply to "It's Another Windows 95!!"
kwan_e Member since:
2007-02-18

Remember how they convinced US television to show pictures of people waiting in line to buy Windows 95? They're still at it.


I barely remember it, since I was in primary school then, but I do remember this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNSn6AtdSGM

Reply Score: 2

It's Another Windows 95!! LOL wrong
by oiaohm on Wed 31st Oct 2012 00:21 UTC in reply to "It's Another Windows 95!!"
oiaohm Member since:
2009-05-30

Windows 95 people went in and acquired boxes of the Microsoft Operating system who did not even own a computer.

The age of the frenzy is over for Microsoft.

Reply Score: 3

Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

Or like my naïve 18-year-old self, didn't research compatibility and bought Windows 95 for a laptop with 4MB of RAM and no upgrade path. I eventually managed to get it to install, but it ran like drunken snail.

I get your point though; that "Start me up!" ad was compelling, and I never was a Stones man by any stretch.

Reply Score: 2

I wouldn't have thought it
by jonoden on Tue 30th Oct 2012 19:06 UTC
jonoden
Member since:
2012-02-13

But put me in the camp of sold on Win 8. Just upgraded to it on my gaming notebook (samsung gamer 7) and I've been pleasantly surprised that I am digging it so far. Haven't found anything broken yet after I upgraded a couple of sammy's utils to integrate with the hardware properly. Slowly learning the new keyboard shortcuts. I especially like that I don't have to be in Metro if I don't want to. It's definitely FAST.

I'll keep trying to warm up to metro over time, I'm curiously intrigued because it's a new toy, but mostly indifferent to it at the moment with a touch of liking it.

Reply Score: 3

RE: I wouldn't have thought it
by lucas_maximus on Tue 30th Oct 2012 21:08 UTC in reply to "I wouldn't have thought it"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

I have to say that while some of the bing apps are nice, but I haven't really used the Metro stuff much (the google maps app is nice).

Reply Score: 2

Fun with numbers
by jessesmith on Tue 30th Oct 2012 21:48 UTC
jessesmith
Member since:
2010-03-11

Selling four million of anything is impressive. Microsoft is apparently getting the word out and people are curious. That's cool. I want to point out though that four million people is, what, less than one half of a per cent of the Windows market? It's not like all of their customers are stampeding to get this version.

Reply Score: 3

Fun with numbers truly
by oiaohm on Tue 30th Oct 2012 22:21 UTC in reply to "Fun with numbers"
oiaohm Member since:
2009-05-30

This is also low income yield all these upgrades.

Not like MS golden age when upgrade cost more than the full OEM version.

Reply Score: 2

No Thank You
by tuaris on Wed 31st Oct 2012 01:02 UTC
tuaris
Member since:
2007-08-05

I wouldn't touch Windows 8 even with a 10 foot pooper-scooper.

Reply Score: 2

Not Ringing My Bell So Far
by HappyGod on Wed 31st Oct 2012 01:04 UTC
HappyGod
Member since:
2005-10-19

Windows 8 is the first version of Windows I actually bought with money since Windows 95. And even that I went in thirds with two other student friends.

The experience so far has been less than stellar:

int msUpgradePointsTally = 0;

1. I download the "upgrade assistant" app to check whether I could upgrade. This made me a bit nervous as I was running a pirate version of Win7. And ... it didn't work.

The .exe kept crashing as it tried to "unpack its box". Executing my Google-fu, I quickly learned that this link is duff, and that you have to download it several times before it will work: msUpgradePointsTally--;

2. I start the install, and it provides me with a few options about keeping all my crap. Essentially: upgrade with your programs, with just your personal stuff, or with nothing.

I choose "with my programs", and it informs me that Windows Media Center isn't supported, and therefore that whole option is unavailable!! So because 1 app isn't compatible, I have to re-install everything!? msUpgradePointsTally--;

3. I "choose" to upgrade with my personal stuff, and get to the payment screen. I choose PayPal. Crash. msUpgradePointsTally--;

4. After the upgrade Windows politely explains that my screen resolution is too low for "Windows Snap" to work (or something like that). I think to myself; "Who cares. Sounds like something I don't need anyhow, Right?".

Wrong. Turns out that if your resolution is too low for snap. It's too low for everything! As a consequence I cannot run any Metro app. The entire Win8 start screen is just a bunch of pretty boxes of no bloody use whatsoever. msUpgradePointsTally--;

5. I finally get the damn thing installed. It's my media PC, so it's time to get MS' free Media Center pack. I jump online and fill out the form. It says, "Your product key has been sent to you!". So I wait. Hours go by. Days go by. Nothing.

Time for Google-fu. Turns out that the screen did in fact warn me that my key could take "up to 24 hours". There was some MS guy trying to defend this wait. But there is no defense. It's ridiculous. Anyhow, day 3, and I finally got it in my inbox this morning.
msUpgradePointsTally--;

Console.WriteLine(msUpgradePointsTally);
-5


Epic fail.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Not Ringing My Bell So Far
by Morgan on Wed 31st Oct 2012 02:06 UTC in reply to "Not Ringing My Bell So Far"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

I download the "upgrade assistant" app to check whether I could upgrade. This made me a bit nervous as I was running a pirate version of Win7. And ... it didn't work.


Seriously? You expected a legitimate commercial OS to upgrade your pirated, hacked version? You were setting yourself up for failure, but I think that was the point of your "experiment". Next time try installing from scratch like any other sane person would when faced with your situation. You just invalidated the rest of your rant with this bullshit.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Not Ringing My Bell So Far
by HappyGod on Wed 31st Oct 2012 02:26 UTC in reply to "RE: Not Ringing My Bell So Far"
HappyGod Member since:
2005-10-19

"I download the "upgrade assistant" app to check whether I could upgrade. This made me a bit nervous as I was running a pirate version of Win7. And ... it didn't work.


Seriously? You expected a legitimate commercial OS to upgrade your pirated, hacked version? You were setting yourself up for failure, but I think that was the point of your "experiment". Next time try installing from scratch like any other sane person would when faced with your situation. You just invalidated the rest of your rant with this bullshit.
"

Wow. I think it might be time to switch to decaf there buddy.

Precisely none of the issues I encountered were the result of the fact that my copy was pirated. And for each of the issues I encountered there are many thousands of people on fora with precisely the same issues, who were not running a pirated version.

Now, step away from your keyboard. Make yourself a nice cup of tea, and go do the crossword.

Edited 2012-10-31 02:28 UTC

Reply Score: 0

RE[3]: Not Ringing My Bell So Far
by Morgan on Wed 31st Oct 2012 02:34 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Not Ringing My Bell So Far"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

You might want to get your eyes checked (since we're apparently exchanging health advice). The very text I quoted from you was your first issue, and your words were it didn't work, which was a direct result of using a pirated copy and you gave Microsoft a negative point in your assessment as a result.

My point being, if you're going to go to the trouble to do a serious evaluation of a software product, do it with the legitimate software and not a compromised version. Whether or not the pirated copy was the cause of any issues (and you already admitted it caused an issue before denying it later), you're polluting the test pool. Therefore, I can't take you the least bit seriously.

Edit: And for what it's worth, yes there are a multitude of issues with Windows 8, which is why I have said in the past (after reviewing the release previews) that I'm on the fence about it altogether. I agree with you: There are a lot of problems they must address. My issue here is solely with your "designed to fail" experiment.

Edited 2012-10-31 02:40 UTC

Reply Score: 3

HappyGod Member since:
2005-10-19

So let me get this straight. You think:

1. That MS deliberately rigged its upgrade assistant to not work on pirated copies that are trying to go legitimate.

2. That all the other people with that exact same issue must all be running pirated copies.

3. That because that one issue might (but isn't) be cause by piracy, that this somehow excuses all of the other bizarre issues, that are obviously not related.

Interesting.

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Not Ringing My Bell So Far
by Morgan on Wed 31st Oct 2012 02:45 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Not Ringing My Bell So Far"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

So let me get this straight. You think:

1. That MS deliberately rigged its upgrade assistant to not work on pirated copies that are trying to go legitimate.


I never said that, don't misquote me. It's a given that if you're running a pirated or hacked OS, when you try legitimate updates they tend to fail. This is true of Windows as well as MacOS (Hackintoshes).

2. That all the other people with that exact same issue must all be running pirated copies.


I never said that either. Again you put words in my mouth to prove your point. Not the right way to do things, dude.

3. That because that one issue might (but isn't) be cause by piracy, that this somehow excuses all of the other bizarre issues, that are obviously not related.


Once again, I never said that. You have a perverse love of misquoting people, it seems. My issue is that if your methodology is knowingly flawed (as you proudly proclaimed when you said "This made me a bit nervous as I was running a pirate version of Win7") one has to wonder about the rest of your results.

I'll say it with emphasis this time so it sinks in: Run your tests on a valid Windows 7 install, or else a clean install of Windows 8, and I will take your evaluation at face value.

Edited 2012-10-31 02:47 UTC

Reply Score: 3

HappyGod Member since:
2005-10-19

I attributed those things to you because they can be inferred by previous things that you said. For example you said:

"your words were it didn't work, which was a direct result of using a pirated copy".

This means that you believe the first issue I raised was a result of using a pirated copy. If this is the case then you must logically believe that anyone else having this problem must also be running a pirated copy. See how I make that connection?

This also implies that either you think that MS deliberately rigged it not to work on pirated systems, or you think it's just a coincidence, and I just wanted to clarify which you believed.

You said:

"you already admitted it caused an issue before denying it later"

When did I admit that it caused an issue?, and when did I deny it? Please paste the text.

Frankly, I think that you read the first paragraph of my post, got annoyed that I pirated some software, and shot off at the mouth. And you've been trying unsuccessfully to make your position tenable since then.

Bottom line. None of my issues; I repeat NONE of my issues were caused by piracy.

They are all a result of a very crap upgrade implementation by Microsoft, and had you read on, you would have quickly realised that.

Reply Score: 1

RE[7]: Not Ringing My Bell So Far
by Morgan on Wed 31st Oct 2012 03:51 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Not Ringing My Bell So Far"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

I attributed those things to you because they can be inferred by previous things that you said. For example you said:

"your words were it didn't work, which was a direct result of using a pirated copy".

This means that you believe the first issue I raised was a result of using a pirated copy.


No, read again what you said, in full:

"This made me a bit nervous as I was running a pirate version of Win7. And ... it didn't work.

You knew you were running a pirated version of Windows, and it made you nervous about attempting an upgrade. So you were the first one to attribute failure directly to running hacked software, not me. You tried to take it back and then turn it around on me, but to do so is quite disingenuous.

If this is the case then you must logically believe that anyone else having this problem must also be running a pirated copy.


Not at all; that is obviously the way you think but I tend to take all the facts into consideration. In your specific case it caused an issue, as you said. My point has been and still is that you are starting with a corrupt data set for your experiment, and even if the rest of your results are replicated elsewhere, your test itself is suspect.

When did I admit that it caused an issue?, and when did I deny it? Please paste the text.


No problem, bold text in these quotes is my analysis, the rest is you:

"This made me a bit nervous" - you suspected it would be a problem - "as I was running a pirate version of Win7. And ... it didn't work." - and your suspicion was correct.

"Precisely none of the issues I encountered were the result of the fact that my copy was pirated." - Flat out denial of what you stated above.

Frankly, I think that you read the first paragraph of my post, got annoyed that I pirated some software, and shot off at the mouth. And you've been trying unsuccessfully to make your position tenable since then.


No, as I've stated four times now, I think your methodology is flawed. Perhaps the pirated software caused more than just the first issue, perhaps it caused none, perhaps it caused all of them. The fact that you ran the experiment with a known suspect data set makes it invalid, period.

Bottom line. None of my issues; I repeat NONE of my issues were caused by piracy.


There's simply no way to say that with 100% certainty, even if we completely ignore your first issue. To say otherwise is ludicrous. Re-run the experiment with a legal copy of Windows 7, and no matter the outcome, even if the first issue happens again, I will believe every word of it.

They are all a result of a very crap upgrade implementation by Microsoft


There's a very good chance you are right, but we'll never know for sure unless you conduct a proper test using legitimate installs.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Not Ringing My Bell So Far
by WereCatf on Wed 31st Oct 2012 02:08 UTC in reply to "Not Ringing My Bell So Far"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

2. I start the install, and it provides me with a few options about keeping all my crap. Essentially: upgrade with your programs, with just your personal stuff, or with nothing.

I choose "with my programs", and it informs me that Windows Media Center isn't supported, and therefore that whole option is unavailable!! So because 1 app isn't compatible, I have to re-install everything!? msUpgradePointsTally--;


Wow, now that I didn't know. Talk about piss-poor execution of the upgrade! Hell, I can imagine almost everyone having atleast one unsupported application, meaning that people will have to re-install everything.

4. After the upgrade Windows politely explains that my screen resolution is too low for "Windows Snap" to work (or something like that). I think to myself; "Who cares. Sounds like something I don't need anyhow, Right?".

Wrong. Turns out that if your resolution is too low for snap. It's too low for everything! As a consequence I cannot run any Metro app. The entire Win8 start screen is just a bunch of pretty boxes of no bloody use whatsoever. msUpgradePointsTally--;


That's something I, too, found exceedingly stupid on Microsoft's part. Having low-resolution displays is not uncommon, and it says quite a lot about this whole thing that it's too inflexible to be able to accommodate various screen resolutions.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Not Ringing My Bell So Far
by blitze on Wed 31st Oct 2012 06:57 UTC in reply to "RE: Not Ringing My Bell So Far"
blitze Member since:
2006-09-15

Low resolution display?? What are you running 640 x 480?? Metro should be handling 1280 x 768 or so. It was designed with tablets and phones in mind.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Not Ringing My Bell So Far
by blitze on Wed 31st Oct 2012 06:54 UTC in reply to "Not Ringing My Bell So Far"
blitze Member since:
2006-09-15

in the case of having an incompatible app like Media Center in your case or Microsoft Security Essentials in my case, you just have to uninstall the offending app. At least that is what I did for a Win 7 Professional upgrade to Win 8. Not rocket science and definitely a far cry from having to reinstall everything.

For my Envy 17 with Adobe software and Reaper the process was painless and even though I am located in Finland I was able to pay for the upgrade with my Australian CC. Just used Finnish Post Code with Australian billing address. I do wish though companies would offer better options with regards to multi country living and finance but it worked here.

As for the OS well shortcuts via keyboard in desktop are good and ribbon in explorer is the way it should be. There if you need and not otherwise. Thanking MS for getting rid of Aero too.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Not Ringing My Bell So Far
by n4cer on Wed 31st Oct 2012 17:01 UTC in reply to "Not Ringing My Bell So Far"
n4cer Member since:
2005-07-06

4. After the upgrade Windows politely explains that my screen resolution is too low for "Windows Snap" to work (or something like that). I think to myself; "Who cares. Sounds like something I don't need anyhow, Right?".

Wrong. Turns out that if your resolution is too low for snap. It's too low for everything! As a consequence I cannot run any Metro app. The entire Win8 start screen is just a bunch of pretty boxes of no bloody use whatsoever. msUpgradePointsTally--;


This is not true.
Snap requires a minimum resulution of 1366x768.
Metro requires a minimum resolution of 1024x768.

As long as your screen resolution is at least 1024x768, you should be able to run Metro apps regardless of whether your resolution supports Snap.

If your resolution is below 1024x768, then you cannot run Metro apps.

Reply Score: 3

Works for me
by Baxtor44 on Wed 31st Oct 2012 04:03 UTC
Baxtor44
Member since:
2007-02-07

For whatever it's worth Install worked just fine for me..

Reply Score: 2

RE: Works for me
by quackalist on Wed 31st Oct 2012 04:08 UTC in reply to "Works for me"
quackalist Member since:
2007-08-27

Did you upgrade or do a fresh install?

Reply Score: 2

Its not that bad!
by hollovoid on Wed 31st Oct 2012 07:12 UTC
hollovoid
Member since:
2005-09-21

I have been using 8 since launch and really expected disaster, but was willing to deal with it because of the low price point. I must say, its really not much different than 7 if you dont want it to be. I installed start8 menu replacement, and rarely go into metro at this time, although metro really has not been too bad either, just needs more quality apps and a update or two before mouse and keyboarding becomes a little better.
And I know its not evidence of anything, but I think Windows 7 gave Microsoft alot of goodwill, because I get asked about 8 by a ton of people, who want to upgrade to it, and people like myself who bought it out of curiosity, and ended up keeping it installed.

Microsoft Didn't hit a homerun, but I don't think they exactly struck out either, Im gonna keep pounding away at it and reserve final judgement until its had a few updates sent it's way. All it needs are a few small changes and better integration between the desktop apps and metro, and things could get really really nice.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Its not that bad!
by lucas_maximus on Wed 31st Oct 2012 07:22 UTC in reply to "Its not that bad!"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

When I upgraded there was a lot of updates to some of the Metro Apps.

Some I uninstalled because they were totally useless to me. I been using Metro Skype and tbh I quite like how I can set it to sit on the sidelines and not interfere with the "desktop".

The Video Player is good, but I haven't tried it with anything except MP4 files and movies that have subtitles.

There are a few nice free apps in the store, Google Maps works quite nicely, and the BBC News App.

There is a "Metro Commander" which I have installed but haven't tried out yet.

Edited 2012-10-31 07:22 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Its not that bad!
by hollovoid on Wed 31st Oct 2012 08:32 UTC in reply to "RE: Its not that bad!"
hollovoid Member since:
2005-09-21

I have been digging the music player app and using the slacker app as well, kept having issues with the volume reducing when I left the applications in the background, found that you have to set the telephony setting in your soundcard preferences to never mute. I contacted Microsoft and they said they are working on fixing that but just a tip if you run into that!

Reply Score: 2

v Proud
by Sodapop on Wed 31st Oct 2012 07:26 UTC
RE: Proud
by BeamishBoy on Thu 1st Nov 2012 21:36 UTC in reply to "Proud"
BeamishBoy Member since:
2010-10-27

Good luck to Microsoft, but the world and it's opinion is changing. No matter what the paid shills on all the forums and tech sites say.



Wait a second. I can be a paid shill for liking Windows 8? Where do I sign up?

Reply Score: 2

Comment by marcp
by marcp on Wed 31st Oct 2012 08:54 UTC
marcp
Member since:
2007-11-23

Don't worry. In a Windows world the rest of the people will be forced to upgrade sooner or later. They will need to use Windows 8 for some of their apps and will have to buy a copy of Windows 8, or they'll just be forced to buy new hardware, and guess what - this hardware will be running Windows 8!

It's all actually for the mass user. Others will use regular, not "certified for" hardware [which makes it hard to install other OS without stupid cracking]. There are lots of Linux hardware vendors who don't lock you inside of the Windows ecosphere.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by marcp
by Soulbender on Wed 31st Oct 2012 10:47 UTC in reply to "Comment by marcp"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

There are lots of Linux hardware vendors who don't lock you inside of the Windows ecosphere.


Since when are there "lots of" Linux hardware vendors?

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by marcp
by franksands on Wed 31st Oct 2012 12:13 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by marcp"
franksands Member since:
2009-08-18

"There are lots of Linux hardware vendors who don't lock you inside of the Windows ecosphere.


Since when are there "lots of" Linux hardware vendors?
"
TROLL_MODE=ON

Oh, didn't you hear that 2013 will be the year for the Linux Desktop(tm)?

TROLL_MODE=OFF

Sorry guys, just couldn't hold it.

Reply Score: 2

Paltry
by wocowboy on Wed 31st Oct 2012 10:48 UTC
wocowboy
Member since:
2006-06-01

4 million is a rather paltry number considering Windows' installed base of around 1.25 billion. A measly .3% first 4 days. In contrast, Apple's installed base of 66 million had a 5% uptake of Mountain Lion in the same amount of time.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Paltry
by franksands on Wed 31st Oct 2012 12:10 UTC in reply to "Paltry"
franksands Member since:
2009-08-18

So what's the big difference between 3% and 5%? Early adopters are few in every segment. But on the other hand, 3% of 1+ billion is much more impressive than 5% of millions.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Paltry
by Morgan on Thu 1st Nov 2012 09:07 UTC in reply to "RE: Paltry"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

You missed a dot.

Reply Score: 2

It's the Future, Gentlemen
by franksands on Wed 31st Oct 2012 12:08 UTC
franksands
Member since:
2009-08-18

I have upgraded last monday and I have to say it looks absolutely gorgeous on my 42'' TV. I think it is a system that for the first time tried to do something different than the old 95 theme that just got a lot more clutter with each iteration.
This is a new clean interface, that takes advantadge not only of touch, but of big screens. It's completely functional with a keyboard and mouse, and for a bonus, it recognized my logitech unified wireless keyboard and trackball.
Of course, for such a disruptive change, there are only a few interesting apps in the Windows Store, but nothing you can't sideload. And IE10 misteriously never loads gmail. But this are quirks that I'm sure will be corrected over time.

This is the first time I'm thrilled to use my computer since windows 95. It's great, fluid and beautiful. Can't wait to see how this will develop.

Reply Score: 2

Comment by ilovebeer
by ilovebeer on Thu 1st Nov 2012 08:13 UTC
ilovebeer
Member since:
2011-08-08

A new Windows comes out and sells millions upon release. And this surprises anyone? .....Really? 4,000,000 is a tiny sliver of the Windows desktop user base. It's just as predictable as people making lame attempts at conspiracy theories or some other ridiculous nonsense to explain it.

Reply Score: 2