Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 4th Dec 2012 09:50 UTC
PDAs, Cellphones, Wireless "For a seventh consecutive month, the Samsung Galaxy S III is the most popular smartphone in the United Kingdom. The data compiled by uSwitch is based on live searches, pre-orders, as well as postpaid sales. Curiously, Apple's current smartphone flagship is not even second. The iPhone 5 is outperformed by its predecessor, whose lower price and improved contract offers helped it remain appealing. The Samsung Galaxy S II completes the quartet at the top. The rest of the top ten smartphones is entirely an Android party. It includes the Google Nexus 4, who entered the rankings a solid fifth. The second half of the top ten includes the Samsung Galaxy Ace, Samsung Galaxy Note 2, Sony Xperia U, HTC One X, as well as the Samsung Galaxy Ace 2." This is getting ridiculous, and it's not good for the market. For the love of Fiona, people, buy something that's not Android. I don't want to live in an Android-dominated smartphone world.
Order by: Score:
Obviously
by henderson101 on Tue 4th Dec 2012 10:08 UTC
henderson101
Member since:
2006-05-30

This is a no brainer. You can get a Galaxy sIII free on contract from all the providers for far less than you can get an iPhone 5. The iPhone 5 is not free till you spend around £40 a month, the sIII is free at £26.

Remember, the UK mobile phone market works a lot like the US one. All phones are subsidised, very few people buy phones for the up front cost. The fact that our phone contracts and pricings are superior to the US is a bonus, not relevant to the conversation.

Take a look at one of the leading independent mobile phone stores price list for monthly contract phones:

http://www.carphonewarehouse.com/pay-monthly/deal-finder

You might also care to look at Phones4u, which is a direct competitor. The market is driving down handset prices at the moment, especially pre-Christmas.

So, from the above Carphonewarehouse site:

Cheapest free iPhone 5 is £39 a month (this is over £10 more than I pay a month)

Cheapest free sIII is £26 a month (on a par with my current iPhone 4 contract)

Cheapest free 4s is £29 per month - more than the sIII!!!!!

Galaxy Ace is £7.50 free, not surprising it is popular, right? And you only have to take a quick look at the rest of the list there to see why the others are more popular. Come on, this is little to do with what is best and all to do with economics and making do with a cheap handset.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Obviously
by Thom_Holwerda on Tue 4th Dec 2012 10:13 UTC in reply to "Obviously"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Come on, this is little to do with what is best


Of course it doesn't. Who said so?

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Obviously
by henderson101 on Tue 4th Dec 2012 10:17 UTC in reply to "RE: Obviously"
henderson101 Member since:
2006-05-30

Exactly, I'm not arguing with you at all. The costs pretty much show you why the figures are as they are, and why the SIII is so popular. It's a third cheaper over 2 years.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Obviously
by Thom_Holwerda on Tue 4th Dec 2012 10:19 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Obviously"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Exactly, I'm not arguing with you at all. The costs pretty much show you why the figures are as they are, and why the SIII is so popular. It's a third cheaper over 2 years.


It's Google's strategy, really. Make smartphones super-cheap. It's working, and sadly, I don't think the market benefits from it.

Reply Score: 0

RE[4]: Obviously
by MyNameIsNot4Letter on Tue 4th Dec 2012 10:29 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Obviously"
MyNameIsNot4Letter Member since:
2011-01-09

I agree. One dominating mobile platform is Windows all over again. After the death of Amiga, computers became kinda boring really.

Well, i'm lining up for a Firefox phone. Or a BlackBerry. Whichever comes first.

I tried the BB tablet and was sold. That thing is snappy as hell. And that was 6 months ago.

/Uni

Edited 2012-12-04 10:29 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[5]: Obviously
by henderson101 on Tue 4th Dec 2012 10:31 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Obviously"
henderson101 Member since:
2006-05-30

Would you recommend the BB tablet? I get mixed reviews. One can get them dirt cheap at the moment too.

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Obviously
by reduz on Tue 4th Dec 2012 12:31 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Obviously"
reduz Member since:
2006-02-25

the software is pretty good now, but the hardware is outdated compared to modern tablets for that price

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Obviously
by Adurbe on Tue 4th Dec 2012 12:37 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Obviously"
Adurbe Member since:
2005-07-06

I had one and would recommend against it. The hardware is fine but the apps are flaky to say the least.

The browser is painfully slow

The Facebook app crashes regularly and has a noticable typing lag (not present in other apps)

Installing some android apps does help, but they dont take advantage of QNX's multitasking which negates any benefits...

I chucked mine on Ebay

Reply Score: 3

RE[6]: Obviously
by Sparrowhawk on Tue 4th Dec 2012 21:07 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Obviously"
Sparrowhawk Member since:
2005-07-11

Yes, absolutely. I initially bought my 64GB PlayBook from Currys for £269 and it was a great buy even at that price. At current prices, they are a steal. (I now also have a 32GB one and bought a 16GB one for a friend)

Anyway I bought it to hold my music collection - I did not really think I'd use it for anything else as I also have an iPhone and iPad. Now though it is with me all the time. Music, videos, email, calendar, contacts, games, ssh/tenet client, etc etc. *love it*

The browser can indeed be slow although mine is usually fine, but it's also incredibly accurate at rendering and supports Flash which is still a useful thing to support for many sites.

The 3rd party app catalogue is now much, much healthier than it was a year ago. Games in particular seem to be plentiful (eg I have recently bought Galaxy on Fire 2 HD, Lara Croft, Angry Birds Space, etc etc). The new and updated Lords of Midnight game is being released simultaneously on iOS and PlayBook, before even Android, so some devs see it as a good bet. Some core apps ars still missing though: Skype being the main one for me. And I'd love 1Password on there too.

The UI is fantastic - swipe gestures do pretty much everything and are learnt in about 2 minutes flat. Once you use them for a while, the button-based interface seems so archaic. Best of all though, RIM have said that BB10 will be available as an update for the existing PlayBook line.

Hardware wise it is nothing special perhaps by the cutting edge of today, but the screen is excellent and crisp, there is strong and very good stereo sound, excellent front and rear cameras and HDMI out. I don't currently have a Blackberry phone (don't like OS 7) but I will probably switch from iPhone to BB10 next year and get a nicely integrated system (BB Bridge allows using the PlayBook to send messages, the phone to be used as a remote control when outputting a movie via HDMI and so forth.

Also I prefer the 7" form factor to our iPad, which I almost never now pick up.

Having said all that, if you already happen to have a 7" tablet, It's maybe not worth it. Except it is! ;)

Reply Score: 3

RE[7]: Obviously
by henderson101 on Wed 5th Dec 2012 16:56 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Obviously"
henderson101 Member since:
2006-05-30

Yeah.. I have a Nexus 7 and I currently want to stamp on it and also trouble shoot my issues and make it work - passive aggressive.

I so, so , so almost got a Playbook. I ordered one from PCWorld, collect in store, but the model I ordered (32?) was out of stock at the time. I have some cash burning a hole in my pocked and BB10 is so interesting, I might bite.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Obviously
by zima on Tue 11th Dec 2012 23:38 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Obviously"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

One dominating mobile platform is Windows all over again. After the death of Amiga, computers became kinda boring really.

After the death of stagnating Amiga (devs and users never really went beyond the 500-generation), the economies of scale in Wintel ecosystem brought rapid improvement, great offers, much more powerful hardware in affordable prices.

I happen to be from a place where Amiga 1) was quite popular 2) lived longer than in the Western Europe. Its tightly coupled software & hardware is what killed it in the end. When it finally died at the end of the 90s (here), replaced by PCs, you could almost hear "finally!"...

So if again - this time in mobile - we'll have a death of old-style limited platforms, and great offers from the economies of scale, I'm all for it.

Edited 2012-12-11 23:42 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Obviously
by henderson101 on Tue 4th Dec 2012 10:30 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Obviously"
henderson101 Member since:
2006-05-30

It's Google's strategy, really. Make smartphones super-cheap. It's working, and sadly, I don't think the market benefits from it.


I'd far rather have a Jolla or a Windows Phone 8 phone. But I'm sticking with my iPhone 4 till it dies because I don't see the point of upgrading. If the Jolla phones are cool, I'll get one. If Microsoft decides to allow sideloading without paying a stupidly large developer fee every year, I'll get one instead. As it stands nothing appeals to me as a developer. (especially as I already have an N7, Android is boring and Java still sucks.) Vendors - give me an OS that has a decent SDK that I can do something useful with! Please!

Reply Score: 5

RE[4]: Obviously
by JAlexoid on Tue 4th Dec 2012 11:24 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Obviously"
JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

Actually economics says that that is exactly for the benefit of the market - lower price demands higher efficiency.

Reply Score: 5

RE[4]: Obviously
by gan17 on Tue 4th Dec 2012 11:28 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Obviously"
gan17 Member since:
2008-06-03

Right now, I'm more worried about Samsung's growth than Google's.

Reply Score: 4

RE[4]: Obviously
by Wondercool on Tue 4th Dec 2012 11:28 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Obviously"
Wondercool Member since:
2005-07-08

Why don't you think the market benefits from it?

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Obviously
by henderson101 on Tue 4th Dec 2012 16:28 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Obviously"
henderson101 Member since:
2006-05-30

Why don't you think the market benefits from it?


Me personally? I don't believe that the figures reflect the reality - all they show is lowest price wins. Ask most of the non geek, average punters why they got an Android phone and many will say "what's Android?"

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Obviously
by Wondercool on Tue 4th Dec 2012 17:13 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Obviously"
Wondercool Member since:
2005-07-08

It was more directed to Thom, as he says he thinks it does not benefit the market but does not explain why not.

I think that people do know Android and like the fact they can choose from 100 different phone at 100 different price plans rather than take a vendor locked, 1 model fits them all, my way or the high way, OS/phone

Edited 2012-12-04 17:14 UTC

Reply Score: 4

RE[7]: Obviously
by henderson101 on Thu 6th Dec 2012 12:03 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Obviously"
henderson101 Member since:
2006-05-30

I honestly don't think most average people care. They go with trends (what is the current talking point) or they go with price, or both.

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Obviously
by zima on Fri 7th Dec 2012 15:42 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Obviously"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

I don't believe that the figures reflect the reality - all they show is lowest price wins. Ask most of the non geek, average punters why they got an Android phone and many will say "what's Android?"

Probably similar with Windows or... OSX and Darwin, BSD; or "internet" and Firefox, Gecko, Chrome, Webkit.

Nothing unusual, doesn't change what wins.

Edited 2012-12-07 15:43 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Obviously
by Chrispynutt on Tue 4th Dec 2012 11:55 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Obviously"
Chrispynutt Member since:
2012-03-14

I can see the negatives in cheap, but I see nothing wrong with technology being open to everyone, not just the rich elite and the technophiles.

Much like Windows (95 to 7), it isn't so much that I like the OS, but dislike the other options more.

Not sure I like the look of Jolla, to minimal for my liking. Firefox OS interests me more.

I'd prefer a new desktop OS at this stage, rather than a new Mobile one. I am fed up of the direction Apple, Microsoft, Gnome, Ubuntu are all going in.

Reply Score: 4

RE[5]: Obviously
by ricegf on Wed 5th Dec 2012 10:58 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Obviously"
ricegf Member since:
2007-04-25

How do you feel about Cinnamon and Haiku? (Just curious - it's OS News, after all...)

Ubuntu's Unity works pretty well for me, and it's easy enough to use and maintain for me to support for my friends and family. And it has an actual marketing department behind it unlike most other alternative OSes, so it comes pre-installed from several vendors and is supported with products like Steam and Netflix. The Ubuntu / Android mix looks promising, though my interest is more focused on Sailfish and FirefoxOS for my theoretical next phone at the moment.

I was rather hoping MeeGo would take 10% of the desktop / laptop market and 30% of the mobile market, enough to garner mainstream support without becoming dominant yet remaining open. Curse you, Microsoft, and your little minion, too!

Reply Score: 3

RE[6]: Obviously
by Chrispynutt on Wed 5th Dec 2012 19:28 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Obviously"
Chrispynutt Member since:
2012-03-14

Argh, well I know this is sacrilege here, but I wasn't a fan of BeOS the first time around.

I think I would be happy with Cinnamon. It is as far as I know what all my Ex-Ubuntu using friends use now as part of Linux Mint.

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Obviously
by zima on Fri 7th Dec 2012 15:36 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Obviously"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

I can see the negatives in cheap, but I see nothing wrong with technology being open to everyone, not just the rich elite and the technophiles.
Much like Windows [...] it isn't so much that I like the OS, but dislike the other options more.

Came here to write pretty much the same thing

I'd prefer a new desktop OS at this stage, rather than a new Mobile one. I am fed up of the direction Apple, Microsoft, Gnome, Ubuntu are all going in.

Well if you don't like Haiku/BeOS, there's always ChromeOS ;P

Edited 2012-12-07 15:37 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Obviously
by moondevil on Tue 4th Dec 2012 12:57 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Obviously"
moondevil Member since:
2005-07-08

That is how Microsoft got where it is now.

I remember having to get a PC with DR-DOS, instead of an Amiga 500, because that is what everyone else was having.

People don't want diversity as much as we geek want to, they just want something cheap that allows them to have the same set of applications as their friends have.

Reply Score: 4

RE[4]: Obviously
by l3v1 on Tue 4th Dec 2012 13:57 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Obviously"
l3v1 Member since:
2005-07-06

It's Google's strategy, really. Make smartphones super-cheap. It's working


That should've been the end of the sentence, and I would've agreed. I don't see why enabling the production of cheap phones is a bad thing. It pushes up the number of available phone types&shapes&sizes, which is always good. While one might be a fan of diversity, I don't think we're at a point to start crying. Diversity for diversity's sake won't help us out. It wouldn't make us happier if all phones would be at or above Apple phone prices, or would it? Regardless of company or OS preference, I like the fact that we can get a usable phone well below the Apple price range. We're not in a point in time where we should think that phones belong to some exotic luxury category supported by a high price range. Also, the S3 is a capability-wise very acceptable piece of hardware, with a fairly usable and developable OS, so it doesn't make me sad that it's - at some places, at least - it's cheaper than Apple's offering.

And as always, the best course for good competition is: competition. Make better and/or cheaper alternatives (sometimes they - capability/price - go hand-in-hand, other times one of them wins over the other) and voila, there'll you have a more diverse phone ecosystem. It's not enough to "just" put something out there and say that's it's the better choice. People vote, and here you see the results.

Reply Score: 6

RE[5]: Obviously (diversity)
by tomz on Tue 4th Dec 2012 21:42 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Obviously"
tomz Member since:
2010-05-06

I'm looking to upgrade, but if there is any problem there are too many choices, and my entire ecosystem will port (MP3s, apps, etc.). I can have a QWERTY slider keyboard. I can have a stylus pen phablet. I can have sleek. I can have extra battery life. I can have quad-core. Samsung dominates, but HTC, LG, Motorola, or anyone else can compete and find a niche.

There used to be "the big 3" automakers in the USA, Chrysler, GM, and Ford. But GM was the biggest. But it wasn't a series of identical cars, they had Chevys, Corvettes, Cadillacs, and trucks!

That said, one thing I don't like about Android is the Java based API - it has limits and I don't care for Eclipse. Yet I can download it and run it for free on multiple platforms. Unlike having to get a Mac, paying Apple the price of entry to program your own hardware. And similar for your WinPhone.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Obviously not
by kragil on Tue 4th Dec 2012 15:38 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Obviously"
kragil Member since:
2006-01-04

Nonsense and FUD at the same time. I could write pages and pages why you are wrong (and maybe even like Engadget) but other wiser people have already done so:

https://plus.google.com/+LinusTorvalds/posts/8KBkzumMEc1

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Obviously
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Tue 4th Dec 2012 18:23 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Obviously"
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

What?! "The Market" I'd rather benefit consumers by having high powered, flexible devices in everyone's hands than benefiting some abstract notion of "the Market". Android is still the most open platform allowing and encouraging wild experimentation with hardware and software. I think that is a good thing that its doing better than Apple, Microsoft's, or Blackberry's platforms.

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: Obviously
by galvanash on Wed 5th Dec 2012 06:14 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Obviously"
galvanash Member since:
2006-01-25

It's Google's strategy, really. Make smartphones super-cheap. It's working, and sadly, I don't think the market benefits from it.


US non-contract pricing

Galaxy S3 - $699
Galaxy Note II - $799
HTC One S - $649
Droid RAZR MAXX - $799
iPhone 5 - $699

I think that global sales figures skew peoples view of reality when talking about Android being "cheap"...

China represents a full 27% of the global smartphone market by volume, but close to 70% of the phones sold there are from Chinese vendors you probably never heard of making ultra cheap Android knockoffs. This certainly makes Android look cheap because it skews the global sales charts dramatically. There are a few other Asian countries with very similar markets - they cheap phones sell well, but they are not from major global manufacturers and barely qualify as being called smartphones.

If you ignore China things look VERY different. The most popular priceband of smartphones globally is actually $450+ dollars (the highest priceband that IDC tracks)... That priceband makes up close to 45% of global volumes according to IDC... IF you leave out China.

In short Android phones simply are not cheap if you are talking about Western Europe and the US. There are certainly some cheap phones, but most people don't buy them... Android pricing is roughly comparable with Apple pricing, in some cases higher - even with contract discounts. The Note II goes for $299 with contract from AT&T, and that is a pretty popular model in the states.

The Nexus 4 is fairly cheap, but it is targeted at non-contract buyers primarily, and as such it simply won't get anywhere near the volume of other flagship models sold with contract discounts. The reality is in the States and most of Western Europe people buy phones under contract. Until that stops happening "cheap" Android phones don't have a prayer of making a big dent in those markets.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Obviously
by 0brad0 on Tue 4th Dec 2012 21:45 UTC in reply to "Obviously"
0brad0 Member since:
2007-05-05

This is a no brainer. You can get a Galaxy sIII free on contract from all the providers for far less than you can get an iPhone 5. The iPhone 5 is not free till you spend around £40 a month, the sIII is free at £26.

Remember, the UK mobile phone market works a lot like the US one. All phones are subsidised, very few people buy phones for the up front cost. The fact that our phone contracts and pricings are superior to the US is a bonus, not relevant to the conversation.


There is no such thing as a free phone. Period.

The fact that the majority of the people with phones are complete idiots and don't even know what free means is part of the problem.

Reply Score: 7

RE[2]: Obviously
by gilljr on Tue 4th Dec 2012 23:15 UTC in reply to "RE: Obviously"
gilljr Member since:
2008-01-30

There is no such thing as a free phone. Period.

The fact that the majority of the people with phones are complete idiots and don't even know what free means is part of the problem.


I agree completely. Everything is monthly payments. If a vendor says they will toss in something free, it only means that it is already priced in the monthly payment that they quoted on the term contract they presented you. You are paying for it. If you do not realize it, you are like a sheep to slaughter.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Obviously
by henderson101 on Thu 6th Dec 2012 12:07 UTC in reply to "RE: Obviously"
henderson101 Member since:
2006-05-30

Okay - let's redefine "free", just for you. In this case, free means "no up front cost". Happy?

Reply Score: 1

RE: Obviously
by zima on Tue 11th Dec 2012 19:36 UTC in reply to "Obviously"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

you only have to take a quick look at the rest of the list there to see why the others are more popular. Come on, this is little to do with what is best and all to do with economics and making do with a cheap handset.

Perhaps something in-between ...economics, yes, but in the sense of what gives, and will continue to give, something very decent (at least nearly best) for great price; the best bang-per-buck (or pound in this case :p )

Exactly how PC won out in the end, and what is the likely future for Android.

Edited 2012-12-11 19:50 UTC

Reply Score: 2

Wellâ¦
by Ford Prefect on Tue 4th Dec 2012 10:10 UTC
Ford Prefect
Member since:
2006-01-16

I rather live in an Android-dominated smartphone world than in a world of vendor lock-in that is provided by the competition (Apple, Microsoft). With my Android phone I can install any software I want. I can use a custom operating system and play with it. I don't have to hack the system [1].

It is a killer feature for me and, honestly, should be one for you too. See Cory's talks on the war on general computation [2]. It is happening right now.


[1] http://unlockbootloader.sonymobile.com/
[2] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUEvRyemKSg

p.s.: OSNews does not support Unicode in Comment Title.

Edited 2012-12-04 10:11 UTC

Reply Score: 12

RE: Well
by henderson101 on Tue 4th Dec 2012 10:22 UTC in reply to "Wellâ¦"
henderson101 Member since:
2006-05-30

All very well till you get a virus, or worse. Only the other day my 7yo daughter downloaded a third party app from the Play Store that did some insanely scary things (installed a bunch of extra short cuts to the home screen, told the user the device had a virus when opening the app and then directed them to a site to install some random software to "remove" the virus.) The bootloader isn't even unlocked, the device just has the "install from other sources" on so that we can use the Amazon Appstore. If I hadn't been there to immediately delete the app and run through some safety checks (and re-run AVG - for all the good that did me initially) it could have been a lot worse.

I'm happy for you, but curated is the only safe option for anyone that hasn't got the skills to protect themselves (i.e. most regular people.)

Reply Score: 0

RE[2]: Well
by Ford Prefect on Tue 4th Dec 2012 11:01 UTC in reply to "RE: Well"
Ford Prefect Member since:
2006-01-16

Protection is always excuse #1 for oppression.

I understand your problem and a use-case of a locked-down device. However it should be the user who opts for the lock. As you said, it was your choice to allow installations from unverified sources. That you had to make the choice (to be able to use the other app store) is a technical detail to be solved.

The behavior of Apple and Microsoft with their platforms does not have a technical reason and therefore will not be solved. Apple is getting more insane every day. But I am very disappointed of Microsoft. They always had the philosophy of an open platform, although using other means of getting ahead of competition (e.g. undocumented API features...). At least they never got into the way of the user. But this changed already with Windows 7 (talking about DRM "features" here).

Reply Score: 12

RE[3]: Well
by henderson101 on Tue 4th Dec 2012 16:47 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Well"
henderson101 Member since:
2006-05-30

it was your choice to allow installations from unverified sources. That you had to make the choice (to be able to use the other app store) is a technical detail to be solved.


Either Amazon need a mechanism to allow the option to be turned on, or Google need to allow other App stores. We digress... you missed one salient point - the app in question was from the Google Play Store, so therefore the Google Play Store is opening up users to dangerous apps. My daughter is 7, but I'm not. Would I have installed the app? No. Do I have to lock down my device and prevent her from enjoying using it? Why should I have to? I've certainly never had this happen to an iOS devices I own and this stinks.

The behavior of Apple and Microsoft with their platforms does not have a technical reason and therefore will not be solved.


With all due respect, bullshit. Opening up naive users to dangerous apps is completely unacceptable.

Apple is getting more insane every day.


Exaggeration. The situation changes very little "daily".

But I am very disappointed of Microsoft. They always had the philosophy of an open platform,


Hyperbole.

although using other means of getting ahead of competition (e.g. undocumented API features...).


Undocumented API.. LOLACOASTER! Read Raymond Chen's blog. You'll fairly quickly understand why the undocumented API's existed (hint, Microsoft frequently had a gung-ho attitude to adding new features and programmers that purposefully fudged, hacked around and patched their way through features they were too lazy to fix or had a personal vendetta to include/remove.)

At least they never got into the way of the user.


Cry me a river. Nothing you've mentioned so far is "getting in the way" of the user. Nothing.

But this changed already with Windows 7 (talking about DRM "features" here).


God forbid there should be any security or any way to protect your digital assets! God forbid!! Clueless.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Well
by -oblio- on Tue 4th Dec 2012 18:35 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Well"
-oblio- Member since:
2008-05-27

Now really, you're also avoiding the elephant in the room. Diversity, liberty of choice.

Where can I get a native Opera browser for iOS? Or Firefox for iOS? Or VLC for iOS? You get the point.

Yes, if you are a parent you should be given parental controls to make sure your child doesn't install dangerous apps. After all, you have to take care of your children. It's like not allowing them near guns so that they don't get hurt.

Blocking everyone from using supposedly dangerous apps is not the way to go.

But, to each his own.

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: Well
by tomz on Tue 4th Dec 2012 21:48 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Well"
tomz Member since:
2010-05-06

God forbid there should be any security or any way to protect your digital assets! God forbid!! Clueless.


Remember they aren't YOUR digital assets. It can only inconvenience you, prevent you from using your own stuff, have all your books, music, or whatever evaporate at their whim.

God forbid there should be any security to prevent them from snooping on your phone calls, SMS, emails, browsing or searches...

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: Well
by cyrilleberger on Wed 5th Dec 2012 07:24 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Well"
cyrilleberger Member since:
2006-02-01

Do I have to lock down my device and prevent her from enjoying using it? Why should I have to? I've certainly never had this happen to an iOS devices I own and this stinks.


Logic fails: you don't want to lock down the device for your daughter but you praise a system that is locked down as being superior.

Reply Score: 5

RE[5]: Well
by henderson101 on Thu 6th Dec 2012 12:14 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Well"
henderson101 Member since:
2006-05-30

Logic fails: you don't want to lock down the device for your daughter but you praise a system that is locked down as being superior.

I'm very sorry, but I don't see iOS as locked down. I've never been prevented from doing anything I've needed to do with iOS. I administer remote machines via VPN and RDP, I download PDF's and read them on device, I edit documents and seamlessly transfer them to my desktop via iCloud, Google docs or dropbox. I code games in Codea. I edit movies, I make music, I animate sprites for games. I edit photos, I draw comics. What is it that I'm being prevented from doing here? Nothing I'd *want* to do on an iPad.

Edited 2012-12-06 12:14 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Well
by c0m47053 on Tue 4th Dec 2012 11:51 UTC in reply to "RE: Well"
c0m47053 Member since:
2011-05-12

May I suggest something like Kids Place? It's a homescreen replacement that you can install from the Play Store to limit what can be run. You password protect the app, and it runs in whitelist mode until the password is entered. It's a pretty good solution when young children are using Android devices.

'Normal' users have lived in a Windows world for a fairly long time now, and while malware is a problem, it hasn't had much impact on adoption.

Reply Score: 7

RE[2]: Well
by Radio on Tue 4th Dec 2012 12:28 UTC in reply to "RE: Well"
Radio Member since:
2009-06-20

Your 7 y.o. daughter did something bad, so we should lock down our devices as if we were all 7 y.o.

Can't argue with your logic.

Reply Score: 7

RE[3]: Well
by henderson101 on Tue 4th Dec 2012 16:51 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Well"
henderson101 Member since:
2006-05-30

No, that's not the point. The point is this: if you can't trust apps from the Play Store, what is the point of having the option to install untrusted sources in the first place? If I'm requires to have that option turned on to protect my kids from the *Play Store* and feel obligated to have an anti virus solution installed, I admit defeat. Anyone want a Nexus 7, cheap? Seriously. Android is a festering turd.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Well
by Thom_Holwerda on Tue 4th Dec 2012 16:57 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Well"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

if you can't trust apps from the Play Store


You can't?

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Well
by Morgan on Tue 4th Dec 2012 19:43 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Well"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

Anyone want a Nexus 7, cheap?


As tempted as I am to make you an offer, why don't you just keep it and try Firefox OS on it? The Nexus series is the test platform for that OS. My Nexus S will be running it as soon as it becomes stable enough for daily use as a phone instead of just a platform demo.

As powerful as Android is, I still don't think it's the phone OS for me. I do love it on a tablet though.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Well
by jimmystewpot on Wed 5th Dec 2012 02:32 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Well"
jimmystewpot Member since:
2006-01-19

did you report the application in question to Google?

- I would be interested to know what your kid was doing to get to the app, what they searched for or how they got to that... Not to do anything more than understand how a kids mind works when dealing with apps.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Well
by henderson101 on Wed 5th Dec 2012 10:46 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Well"
henderson101 Member since:
2006-05-30

-- Open Play Store,
---- click "games"
------ scroll across to "free"
-------- scroll through list

It's not hard.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Well
by robmv on Tue 4th Dec 2012 13:37 UTC in reply to "RE: Well"
robmv Member since:
2006-08-12

Let allow the government to ban unprotected sex, and install devices on our private parts to enforce it. The next time you plan to have a family, you will need to write a request to the government institution requesting for a special digital certificate you can sign your device in order to allow open intercourse with your partner. Or you can jailbreak the device too, but that will not be legal in the future

Reply Score: 1

v RE[3]: Well
by henderson101 on Tue 4th Dec 2012 16:52 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Well"
RE[3]: Well
by lucas_maximus on Tue 4th Dec 2012 20:13 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Well"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

Did someone just make reproductive rights equivalent to rooting your smart-phone?

I am f--king appalled.

Edited 2012-12-04 20:17 UTC

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Well
by tylerdurden on Wed 5th Dec 2012 00:31 UTC in reply to "RE: Well"
tylerdurden Member since:
2009-03-17

I am a bit confused by your point (if there was any to your post). Are you really attempting to use shitty parenting skills as the basis for an argument to authority for closed down software ecosystems?

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Well
by henderson101 on Wed 5th Dec 2012 10:49 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Well"
henderson101 Member since:
2006-05-30

Shitty parenting skills? Fuck you. Seriously. Kiss my arse you piece of shit.

The Play Store is meant to be the beacon of all that is "good" in Android. It's not. And that's my fault? No, you are a cock sucker.

Reply Score: 0

RE[4]: Well
by MOS6510 on Wed 5th Dec 2012 11:53 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Well"
MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

Well, if you really were a good parent you'd buy an iOS device for your kids and not a cheap iOS imitation like Android.

I'm not really serious (well...) so please don't kill me.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Well
by henderson101 on Wed 5th Dec 2012 13:14 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Well"
henderson101 Member since:
2006-05-30

Well, if you really were a good parent you'd buy an iOS device for your kids and not a cheap iOS imitation like Android.

I'm not really serious (well...) so please don't kill me.


Hah! Well, I do let her play with my iPad far more. But I thought I'd expand her horizons slightly. I'm not an iOS zealot, she deserves to be exposed to alternatives. This is why she is also proficient in both Windows and OS X.

To the OP - if you want to enrage a parent, tell them they are bad. Parenting isn't about "bad" or "good". Parenting is about striking a balance, treating your kids fairly whilst ensuring they gain a good moral grounding and above all else, being consistent.

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Well
by MOS6510 on Wed 5th Dec 2012 13:15 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Well"
MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

I try to keep my son on Apple stuff as much as possible, knowing it will be all Windows at school anyway.

It's amazing how fast these buggers learn though.

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: Well
by Neolander on Wed 5th Dec 2012 20:34 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Well"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

I try to keep my son on Apple stuff as much as possible, knowing it will be all Windows at school anyway.

You should probably have them use some variant of Linux and BSD then, since most modern arguments that hold against using Microsoft stuff hold against using Apple stuff too nowadays.

Plus, they'd get asskicking computer maintenance skills while attempting to fix everything that breaks with updates, just like I did in my youth with these Windows 9x installs that would spontaneously fall apart for no good reason ;)

Edited 2012-12-05 20:39 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: Well
by henderson101 on Thu 6th Dec 2012 10:28 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Well"
henderson101 Member since:
2006-05-30

My kids have used:

XP / Vista / Windows 7 at home and in school. They've also use Lion on the Mac Mini and they used to love playing with my old Mac Classic running System 7.0. My eldest has an Android phone (Galaxy Y), my middle child plays XBOX 360 and PS2, so has experience with both of those OS, youngest is obsessed with mobile phones, so has a few old one with no sim card (she uses the video/camera functions mainly) but knows her way round their little OS (mainly Ericson.) They all use iOS and have all used Android. All three have a DSi. They've probably also used my PSP and PS1 at some point.

I love opening them up to new OS and experiences, because it will help them be better with technology in general as they grow up.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Well
by tylerdurden on Wed 5th Dec 2012 18:54 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Well"
tylerdurden Member since:
2009-03-17

Anyhow... I still fail to see how letting your 7 year old kid alone, unsupervised, and with full access to an unrestricted device connected to the internet is an indictment against android (or Apple, or Microsoft in case you want a different app ecosystem).

It takes literally 5 minutes to google how to lock down your android device to make it child proof. I am not a parent, and yet I managed to figure how to sand box my tablet/phone so that my nephews can play with no repercussions. So I assume it may even be easier for any parent of the year.


PS. Maybe the whole "tough guy" act works in real life, but on the internet... meh. I almost lost it laughing with the whole patronizing bit about "parenting" and "balance," right after you having clearly lost your shit. Good times, good times.

Edited 2012-12-05 19:01 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Well
by henderson101 on Thu 6th Dec 2012 10:11 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Well"
henderson101 Member since:
2006-05-30

Anyhow... I still fail to see how letting your 7 year old kid alone, unsupervised, and with full access to an unrestricted device connected to the internet is an indictment against android (or Apple, or Microsoft in case you want a different app ecosystem).


What would you do? Baby your kids in to being completely unable to function in society? Maybe when little Jonny Durden (assuming you are capable of reproducing) rapes, murders or rampages through their liberty, you'll see sense. Wrapping kids up in cotton wool makes them in to self centred asshats.


It takes literally 5 minutes to google how to lock down your android device to make it child proof. I am not a parent, and yet I managed to figure how to sand box my tablet/phone so that my nephews can play with no repercussions. So I assume it may even be easier for any parent of the year.


Yeah... *my* Android device. Not hers. It doesn't need to be "child proof" because she uses it with supervision. I just so happened that she was left for an hour whilst I was cooking. But let's get real here. If I tell my kid not to do something, they don't do it. They respect my authority. I'm fair. I don't put unreasonable limitations on to them, but they do what they are told. As another example, my 9yo Son has 8 hours a week on the XBOX family timer and he is allowed to play whenever he wants to, as long as he asks first. Do I let my 9 year old son play Call of Duty or any other PEGI 12 or over game on the XBOX? Hell no. But he is actually learning to regulate his own use of the system, because if he doesn't he quickly runs out of time. He is learning an important lesson - self discipline.

As for my daughter, she asked if she could download more games. I said, "yes, but no nasty ones." I trusted her and she knew not to download anything gross. But the games she did download where not bad... "Smurf village", "Pet story 2", "my pony" stuff like that. The Nose one comes from her love of an iPad game where you shave a virtual face. The other one was, as I've said above/below somewhere, a Kat licking the screen live wall paper. Yeah, really horrible stuff, obviously </sarcasm>. So, even when left on the big bad internet, she was still trying to be responsible. Unfortunately, the Play Store is not safe (though it should be - the iOS store is), so I've told her she is no longer allowed to download games because she isn't able to know which ones are good and which ones are bad - she won't do it again. But it's sad sorry state of affairs for Google. Anyway, if she does download anything now, she knows she will be punished by sanctions (no PC access, no DS access, restricted TV access etc.) And I'm reasonably confident she won't do it again. Can you say the same about your (possibly imaginary) children? She may have caused me a headache, I may have had to take extra steps to remove the software, but she also learnt an important life lesson. Life isn't Disney channel, you can't protect your kids from shit happening and trying to hurts them more in the long run.

PS. Maybe the whole "tough guy" act works in real life, but on the internet...


Maybe being a totally insensitive prick with no empathy works for you in real life, but here on the internet it pretty much makes you look like a totally insensitive unfeeling prick and not much else. Good luck dodging those bullets from you ungrateful maladjusted offspring.

One last point - I didn't start judging you till you judged me on the basis of one single comment on a thread on the internet, that is completely out of context from real life. Your attitude stinks and karma burns.

Edited 2012-12-06 10:19 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Well
by WorknMan on Wed 5th Dec 2012 04:11 UTC in reply to "RE: Well"
WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

This is probably for you:

http://www.androidcentral.com/hey-microsoft-you-really-wanna-see-dr...

Hopefully you at least left a negative review. WTF did your kid download anyway?

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Well
by henderson101 on Wed 5th Dec 2012 13:15 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Well"
henderson101 Member since:
2006-05-30

Ah - respectfully, no.

Reply Score: 2

Monopoly is always bad
by Torbjorn Vik Lunde on Wed 5th Dec 2012 16:23 UTC in reply to "Wellâ¦"
Torbjorn Vik Lunde Member since:
2009-09-04

While Android is certainly more open than iOS, it’s still not anywhere near open the way for instance Ubuntu is. Development is closed and sometimes they release the source (and sometimes they release only binaries). How open your particular Android handset is often depends on carrier and manufacture.

Although Android is released under an open license I think they are more open in the sense windows was open (same platform, different PC manufacturers), not the way GNU/Linux systems are open.

Personally I don’t believe one open system will «save» us. I think monopoly is bad even if it’s by an relatively open platform, because it still makes people lazy and discourages innovation (at least for a while). Having any player dominate phones and tablets is really bad, regardless of who that player will be.

I think the console market is relatively healthy. Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo is in constant competition and pushing each other to make better and better consoles. I’d love to have such a healthy market in phones/tablets, a repeat of the WinTel-era will be a pretty sad outcome IMHO.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Monopoly is always bad
by Ford Prefect on Wed 5th Dec 2012 16:34 UTC in reply to "Monopoly is always bad"
Ford Prefect Member since:
2006-01-16

I too see room for improvement. However I don't see Androids openness near the one of Windows, it is much closer to the one of Ubuntu.

The reason is that competition indeed can innovate and use the platform without Google's blessing! An example is Amazon, who use their fork of Android on the Kindle. They create their own competing platform, yet stay compatible (as far as they wish) to the Android ecosystem.

That's exactly what is not possible with Windows. You cannot fork Windows!

With Ubuntu, you also have a controlled platform, where Canonical decides to incorporate upstart, not systemd, and to create their own Desktop (Unity). It is not community driven. And as well as Unity can be used by other distributions, the Android software, after Google made the decisions, is available for everybody, e.g. Amazon.
And on the other side, while Ubuntu is very dominant in the Linux distro market, it did not create the situation where everybody would jump on Ubuntu's boat and stop innovating (stop developing Gnome 3, KDE4). As a matter of fact, you could argue that Android is to the phone OS market what Ubuntu is to the GNU/Linux world! And yes, it would be bad if Ubuntu would gain whole dominance, but a competing distro that is closed would not help at all.


Don't get me wrong, I am totally with you in that Google has more tight control, did not release Android 3 sources, and so on. I am also happy that there is competition in the market. But I would value open(!) competition, e.g. Firefox OS, much more. And whatever the market looks like, I would never support a closed system as in iOS, Windows Phone, with my own pocket money. I'd rather be able to innovate myself than be at the mercy of somebody else.

Edited 2012-12-05 16:42 UTC

Reply Score: 3

Better than nothing...
by bert64 on Tue 4th Dec 2012 10:12 UTC
bert64
Member since:
2007-04-23

Android is not dominating, at least not yet... Apple still have the 2 and 3 spots.
And if one platform is going to dominate, better a relatively open platform like Android than a closed one like iOS.

Reply Score: 5

There is still hope
by masennus on Tue 4th Dec 2012 10:56 UTC
masennus
Member since:
2011-02-11

The only chance for one of the better alternatives to matter is that winphone does not become the "third ecosystem". As long as android is dominating and apple is the only alternative there is a real chance that one of the open os'es will get the support they need to succeed. With three equally big "ecosystems" android, iphone and winphone, we are really stuck with android forever with no chance whatsoever of a real open system ever.

Reply Score: 1

Comment by MOS6510
by MOS6510 on Tue 4th Dec 2012 11:17 UTC
MOS6510
Member since:
2011-05-12

Apple can easily lower prices, still make profit and sell a lot more phones.

As they don't it seems they do this by their own choice, preferring a premium brand image to market share.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Comment by MOS6510
by gan17 on Tue 4th Dec 2012 11:34 UTC in reply to "Comment by MOS6510"
gan17 Member since:
2008-06-03

Correct. More than brand image, I think it's profit margins that matter to them the most. They're not going to panic if the iPhoneX falls to 2nd or 3rd spot. As long as the user base is "big enough" (meaning users that BUY apps, movies and music) and their profit per phone remains high.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Comment by MOS6510
by Chrispynutt on Tue 4th Dec 2012 11:46 UTC in reply to "Comment by MOS6510"
Chrispynutt Member since:
2012-03-14

Not really, not without a shareholder revolt. They are tethered to their high margin business. This is one area they cannot be flexible in.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by MOS6510
by MOS6510 on Tue 4th Dec 2012 12:12 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by MOS6510"
MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

I kind of doubt that's the reason, because until recently they didn't give much if any money back to shareholders. It's something Steve didn't believe in, but Tim apparently does.

It seems they think this is the best way to may most money. It's hard to say they're wrong considering how much they bring in compared to the competition, but it's a dangerous tactic. One day the balance may shift and Android will become the #1 choice for developers and accessory makers and relegate the iPhone to second. It will be hard to turn that back around again.

Personally I'd go for marketshare and earn more money with app and media sales.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by MOS6510
by tylerdurden on Wed 5th Dec 2012 00:35 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by MOS6510"
tylerdurden Member since:
2009-03-17

Shareholders only care for profit and returns on their investment. Nowhere in Apple's charter or shareholder documents states that their business model has to be a high margin one.

Reply Score: 2

Please list what's wrong with Android...
by rklrkl on Tue 4th Dec 2012 12:34 UTC
rklrkl
Member since:
2005-07-06

It seems a little strange to say you don't want to live in an Android-dominated world without giving reasons. If, for example, you said the same of Windows (which is clearly nowhere near the best desktop OS technically), I'd agree with you. But what exactly is wrong with Android to justify a comment?

Remember that until recently, iOS was the OS leader on mobile touchscreen devices (particularly on tablets, less so on phones), so would you say the same about iOS if it returned to its preivous position?

What I hate about Windows is that it really only gained its dominance via volume discounts to OEMs (with veiled threats to lose their discounts if they sold desktops with another OS or, shock horror, without an OS at all). Technically, Windows is a poor OS, but people suffer it because that's all they've known for decades now thanks to the Windows monopoly.

Android hasn't done the same thing - the only real pressure tactic Google employed was that they wouldn't give access to Google Play if you attempted to release an Android device outside the OHA (i.e. an unauthorised fork). Considering Google Play is a vital money-making stream (30% of app costs go to Google), this is not an unreasonable request.

I think the only other issue you might have is that Google has little to no control over what carriers do with their releases, even though they're part of the OHA. The custom skinning by carriers has caused no end of grief (often worse than the vanilla Android experience and delays releases often for months) and is partly to blame for the wide range of Android releases still active in the wild.

However, at the end of the day, the Android ecosystem has produced a wide range of phones (different sizes, some with keyboards) of a varying spec (from cheap and cheerful to iPhone-beating) and price. I know that I'd far rather have a choice of phones (and phone manufacturers) to buy from than be stuck with just one model. It creates competition, which spurs on pricing and innovation - two things which Apple haven't been good at after the launch of the first iPhone.

Reply Score: 2

moondevil Member since:
2005-07-08

But this won't change the situation where most people are stuck with something that is an appliance, because most OEMs don't care about upgrades.

To be honest most people don't care anyway.

And Google is a corporation, like every corporation they have to answer their shareholders and they won't play nice forever.

I remember the days when Microsoft was the place to apply for, if you wanted to do cool stuff.

Reply Score: 4

sgtrock Member since:
2011-05-13

Microsoft was NEVER the place to work for if you wanted to do cool stuff. Doing cool stuff just has never been in their DNA. At best, it could be said that you wanted to work for a company whose goal was to be acquired by Microsoft because that's how Microsoft has always acquired cool stuff to sell.

Reply Score: 1

moondevil Member since:
2005-07-08

You must be too young.

I remember the days when almost everyone I knew was doing applications to work there.

Reply Score: 4

sgtrock Member since:
2011-05-13

No, I'm too old. I played with CP/M when it first came out. At one point I nearly talked myself into buying a Kaypro but couldn't swing the cash.

I watched Microsoft slide in past Digital Research to get IBM's attention, then scramble to buy 86-DOS to complete their obligations under the new contract.

I watched IBM and Microsoft dance around with OS/2 while Microsoft was feverishly trying to figure out a way to put GUI lipstick on the CLI that was MS-DOS.

I watched Microsoft copy Lotus 1-2-3's features in Excel, then quietly ensure that 1-2-3 wouldn't run.

Suffice it to say that I've been around the block with the Evil Empire a time or two.

Nope, Microsoft has NEVER been about working on cool stuff. It's been about copying or buying other people's cool stuff, then ruthlessly forcing their competitors out of one market after another.

Reply Score: 2

lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

Except it was QDOS which they bought ...

Reply Score: 2

moondevil Member since:
2005-07-08

Calm down, as if IBM, Lotus, Borland, Aston Tate and many others were nice little angels that never did bad things.

As a former Borland customer I can say I was very pissed off how they handled us and opened the way for Delphi to loose ground on the PC world.

Reply Score: 3

tylerdurden Member since:
2009-03-17

Not really, Microsoft has plenty of talent and they have never (ever) really have had any problem attracting and hiring talent.

Microsoft Labs does plenty of cool stuff as well, and they have no problem attracting top of the crop researchers in their areas of involvement.

It may not be as exciting of a place as a startup, but Microsoft's actual picture/reality has almost nothing to do with the one you just painted.

Reply Score: 2

henderson101 Member since:
2006-05-30

Honestly?

1) The Play Store has apps that are as bad as any malware you might want to find on the internet. They literally use all of the old malware tricks (install extra apps/short cuts, tell you there is a virus on your device.)

2) Android 4.2, despite the hype can be choppy at extremely unreliable.

3) Battery life is a joke. The OS still has a hard time managing the battery.

4) Background tasks are a mess. If you don't constantly manage your apps and background tasks you battery is toast in a few hours. Apps install background tasks like crazy.

I could go on, I won't.

Reply Score: 1

Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Honestly?

1) The Play Store has apps that are as bad as any malware you might want to find on the internet. They literally use all of the old malware tricks (install extra apps/short cuts, tell you there is a virus on your device.)


Never encountered any of these, neither have my Android-using friends. Doesn't mean they don't exist - but it does *usually* mean the problems are overblown - like antennagate.

2) Android 4.2, despite the hype can be choppy at extremely unreliable.

3) Battery life is a joke. The OS still has a hard time managing the battery.

4) Background tasks are a mess. If you don't constantly manage your apps and background tasks you battery is toast in a few hours. Apps install background tasks like crazy.

I could go on, I won't.


Not only are these all disputable, they've got nothing to do with the Play Store.

Reply Score: 5

henderson101 Member since:
2006-05-30

Never encountered any of these, neither have my Android-using friends. Doesn't mean they don't exist - but it does *usually* mean the problems are overblown - like antennagate.


Oh, doubtless you need to trawl for them, but they exist. I've seen them with my own eyes. "Virtual nose surgery" was one (yeah, I wasn't impressed that she installed it, but I gave her a level of trust that has now had to be revoked.)

Not only are these all disputable, they've got nothing to do with the Play Store.


It wasn't a rant about the Play Store though. They OP asked what was wrong with Android.

Reply Score: 2

henderson101 Member since:
2006-05-30

And here is the second one "screen licking kitty live wallpaper":

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.orland.wallpaper.s...

Look at it. It's a "cute" cat live wallpaper that licks your screen. Tell me any 7 year old girl would be able to resist... and it's probably harmless, right? Wrong. It did the following:

1) Added 2 or 3 extra shortcuts on the home screen to spam apps/sites
2) Opening the "payload" app, immediately pops up a message "your device has a virus" that then directed me to a site to download a fake antivirus APK. This was very similar to the other app she installed.
3) Sends around 10+ spam notifications a minute for crapware apps.

Let's be honest here.. these apps are in the top 200 free games category. Virtual Nose Surgery in #35 and Screen licking Cat is #129. That's in the UK Play Store, now, today as I type. That is fcuking disgraceful.

Reply Score: 3

gan17 Member since:
2008-06-03

While I don't disagree on you about Android domination being a bad thing, as a user of both Android and iOS, I have to disagree with some of your points

1) The Play Store has apps that are as bad as any malware you might want to find on the internet. They literally use all of the old malware tricks (install extra apps/short cuts, tell you there is a virus on your device.)

Yes, there's a lot of crap on the Play Store (seriously, how did anything to do with that Santorum idiot get through the vetting?) and there are some apps that will social engineer you into a world of inconvenience , but most of these "malware" reports are seriously overblown, imho. I haven't even encountered anything bad, despite side-loading a couple of times. Then again, I suppose I know what I'm doing; meaning I actually check online when an app catches my interest, though the main reason I do that is because of device fragmentation (wanting to make sure something works on my device) not security.


2) Android 4.2, despite the hype can be choppy at extremely unreliable.

Not sure about older hardware, but on my Nexus 7 it's been a peach. Sure, there's some lag here and there, but I could say the same for my gf's iPad2. iOS is still generally a smoother experience, but the gap ain't that big now. On older hardware Android 4.2 would probably suck a tad, but iOS 6 on an iPhone 3GS or iPhone 4 ain't all sunshine either from what I've heard, despite Apple disabling new features on old handsets.


3) Battery life is a joke. The OS still has a hard time managing the battery.

Again, not on the hardware I have. With the apps I run, my Nexus 7's battery life seems comparable to my partner's iPad 2 (which runs an even less diverse set of apps), give or take 1/2 an hour. If it's constant browsing, then the iPad2 edges it, but not by much. Yes, Android isn't as energy-efficient as WinPhone or iOS, we all know that, but it doesn't suck as much as it used to.


4) Background tasks are a mess. If you don't constantly manage your apps and background tasks you battery is toast in a few hours. Apps install background tasks like crazy.

While I'm sure some apps misbehave or just like working too much for their own good (I'm looking at you, Google Currents), in my case I've hardly had to manage background tasks all that often. Only time I actually double check what's running is after the odd game or two, partly because one game I played had a habit of staying open till an update fixed it. Android memory management still isn't great, though.

Do I like Android? F*ck no!! I think it's Crippled-Linux the same way I think OS X is Crippled-BSD, I still don't trust Google with my info, and the amount of turd in the Play Store makes even Arch's AUR seem like a golden prairie, but it's not as terrible as you make it out to be at this point in time, on newish hardware at least.

Edited 2012-12-04 17:53 UTC

Reply Score: 3

henderson101 Member since:
2006-05-30

.... but most of these "malware" reports are seriously overblown, imho. I haven't even encountered anything bad, despite side-loading a couple of times. Then again, I suppose I know what I'm doing; ...


and therein lies the problem. You and I know what we are doing. You and I will at least check the reviews (and the second review in the UK Play Store on "Virtual Nose Surgery" clearly states that is is malware. My 7 year old daughter or 70 year old Dad won't. I doubt many of my non-tech savvy friends would.


on my Nexus 7 it's been a peach.


My Nexus 7 has awful battery life. Not usage per se - that is about the same. Standby. I leave it sleeping (i.e. press power button, so that the screen turns off) it will still deplete the power at the same rate. I can easily lose 10 - 15% in 2 or 3 hours. This is with Location off and Wifi on. My iPad 2 will sleep for 2 or 3 weeks with similar levels of battery usage. Why does Android consume so much battery whilst supposedly on standby? Answer that and I'd agree with you.


Again, not on the hardware I have. With the apps I run, my Nexus 7's battery life seems comparable to my partner's iPad 2


Absolutely... in daily usage, the life can be comparable - though not as good. It's standby I have an real issue with. Seriously, standby is where wars are won and lost.

Google N7 and power management issues. This is a common issue on various forums.


While I'm sure some apps misbehave or just like working too much for their own good (I'm looking at you, Google Currents), in my case I've hardly had to manage background tasks all that often.


More apps misbehave than behave. I generally only use Currents, Facebook, Twitter, Gmail and Chrome. But open any random app and they will often create a process that backgrounds.

Android memory management still isn't great, though.


It's awful.

Do I like Android? F*ck no!! I think it's Crippled-Linux the same way I think OS X is Crippled-BSD, I still don't trust Google with my info, and the amount of turd in the Play Store makes even Arch's AUR seem like a golden prairie, but it's not as terrible as you make it out to be at this point in time, on newish hardware at least.


I agree with most of what you are saying. OS X can be needy with regards to resources, but I find it is also pleasurable to use. I don't really mind Windows 7 all that much any more. I really with I could video some of the issues I have. I'm tempted to wipe and start again from scratch or install Ubuntu on my Nexus 7.

Reply Score: 3

gan17 Member since:
2008-06-03

It's standby I have an real issue with. Seriously, standby is where wars are won and lost.

I don't really know what to say, as I haven't experienced this on my Nexus 7. Since I haven't use the tablet much today, here's a screenshot of the "Battery" page; http://ompldr.org/vZ2t0ZA

Not that bad, I would think, considering I did do some email checking as well as relied on Google Plus a few times for weather, traffic and whatnot, and my screen brightness is pegged at about 50% since I don't like the way it handles auto-brightness under bedroom lighting. I suppose it's mainly to do with the apps I run. Personally don't use facebook, twitter, etc, so yours (and most people's) issues might have something to do with those and what they do while the tablet is on standby?


I agree with most of what you are saying. OS X can be needy with regards to resources, but I find it is also pleasurable to use.

Fwiw, I use OS X for work, and generally think it's a decent enough OS. It's just that (imho) it really hasn't improved much after Tiger, but gotten much heavier.


I really with I could video some of the issues I have. I'm tempted to wipe and start again from scratch or install Ubuntu on my Nexus 7.

Not doubting you, so you don't have to prove anything to me or anyone else. I'm sure people experience all sorts of issues on Android. But doubt Ubuntu would offer much of an improvement, and as bad as your battery life currently is, I suspect it'll completely divebomb under Ubuntu.

Edited 2012-12-05 16:35 UTC

Reply Score: 3

henderson101 Member since:
2006-05-30

Yeah, mine is at 83% and has been on battery for 23 hours, 9 minutes etc. Fine. But if I take it home and leave it on standby for the next 3 days, the battery will be almost dead next time I look at it. If I did the same with my iPad 2, the battery would be well over 50%, probably more like 75 - 80%. The Nexus 7 seems to use 100X more battery on standby than my iPad, that makes it unpredictable and untrustworthy for me. I can't rely on it ever being charged, whereas I can be pretty sure that if I left my iPad at a specific battery percentage, it'll be extremely close if I pick it back up with in 3 - 4 days.

Couple that with the laggy stuttery behaviour I get in some apps (Chrome being a culprit) and the fact sometime it just locks up for no real reason**, it's pretty much the worst mobile device I've owned. When it works, it woks well. When it has a hissy fit, it's totally unusable and often only a hard reset helps.

** As an example... I can pick it up, it will be doing nothing, running no apps that I am aware of and the lock screen will lag like crazy. The launcher will not have loaded any of the icons of widgets. Opening the app tray will grind the device to a halt and a few times since the last update (4.2.1) I've had a "Launcher has stopped responding" popup.

Edited 2012-12-05 16:48 UTC

Reply Score: 2

WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

The custom skinning by carriers has caused no end of grief (often worse than the vanilla Android experience and delays releases often for months) and is partly to blame for the wide range of Android releases still active in the wild.


I keep hearing this, but I keep asking where all the non-carrier/non-Nexus based Android tablets are that are running stock Android and with unlocked bootloaders. Nobody seems to have an answer, except maybe those bottom-of-the-barrel cheap Chinese pieces of shit tablets that nobody wants. The fact is that Google is ENCOURAGING this vendor bloatware bullshit, so I'm putting the blame squarely on them.

As far as I'm concerned, there are only 3 Android devices currently on the market:

- Nexus 4
- Nexus 7
- Nexus 10

The rest are suck-ass, FrankenAndroid devices.

Reply Score: 2

zima Member since:
2005-07-06

If, for example, you said the same of Windows (which is clearly nowhere near the best desktop OS technically), I'd agree with you. But what exactly is wrong with Android to justify a comment?
[...]
What I hate about Windows is that it really only gained its dominance via volume discounts to OEMs (with veiled threats to lose their discounts if they sold desktops with another OS or, shock horror, without an OS at all). Technically, Windows is a poor OS, but people suffer it because that's all they've known for decades now thanks to the Windows monopoly.

You seem to have some complex about the success of Windows - which actually is not bad on the desktop. It came to dominate because it was (and right now still is) the best of choices http://www.osnews.com/thread?522221

It all happened when Microsoft was still small and cool, in the times of Win 3.x. The period of MS pressure on OEMs was after the fact.

People like Windows despite its shortcomings, deal with it; they like it to the point of pirating it on a massive scale - more than alternatives.

Reply Score: 2

Don't worry
by NuxRo on Tue 4th Dec 2012 12:55 UTC
NuxRo
Member since:
2010-09-25

Don't worry, Firefox OS is coming, Jolla is coming, Tizen is coming, Blackberry's QNS is also coming hopefully. It's going to be plenty of fish in this sea.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Don't worry
by lucas_maximus on Wed 5th Dec 2012 18:53 UTC in reply to "Don't worry"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

I will see how many Spainish people are actually using Firefox OS ... since Telephonica are pushing it.

Reply Score: 2

Why not Android?
by robmv on Tue 4th Dec 2012 13:28 UTC
robmv
Member since:
2006-08-12

Why should I buy something not Android? give me another platform without a mandatory Walled Garden and I will try it, meanwhile I buy Android exclusively. I will not buy a Windows Phone for the sake of having another platform. Principles trump convenience for me

Lets see Firefox OS devices in the future. Blackberry is going Walled Garden, and we don't know all the details of the Joola market

Reply Score: 3

Android everywhere
by bowkota on Tue 4th Dec 2012 14:15 UTC
bowkota
Member since:
2011-10-12

Android is looking so dominant.

http://www.macrumors.com/2012/12/04/chitika-ios-mobile-web-share-co...

Oh and by the way the source of the main article comes from:
http://www.uswitch.com/mobiles/news/2012/12/samsung_galaxy_s3_tops_...

Key sentence in there:
"The South Korean phone-maker’s flagship phone topped the tracker, which an aggregates clicks and sales from uSwitch and Omio partner sites"

It's a shame Samsung never reports any numbers in their earnings. Would be nice to see how accurate these "reports" are.

Edited 2012-12-04 14:29 UTC

Reply Score: 1

Hardware quality
by sb56637 on Tue 4th Dec 2012 14:43 UTC
sb56637
Member since:
2006-05-11

I'm quite disenchanted with the hardware quality of the Android devices I own. Last week both my Motorola Droid 2 Global and my Samsung Captivate Glide stopped working, both due to touchscreen problems. Both were very lightly used and not very old. I am *extremely* meticulous and take great measures to care for my phone, so the breakage is the manufacturer's fault. So hardware quality should also be a major consideration when buying a smartphone, not just the OS. Because, lemme tell ya, a working smartphone with a subpar OS is a heck of a lot better than a smartphone with a sweet OS and no touchscreen... >:-(

Reply Score: 2

RE: Hardware quality
by henderson101 on Tue 4th Dec 2012 17:02 UTC in reply to "Hardware quality"
henderson101 Member since:
2006-05-30

+1. Hardware quality can be shocking. Nexus 7 is shockingly poor quality as an example.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Hardware quality
by tylerdurden on Wed 5th Dec 2012 00:43 UTC in reply to "RE: Hardware quality"
tylerdurden Member since:
2009-03-17

What's wrong about the Nexus 7? I have one, it seems fine in both component and build quality.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Hardware quality
by henderson101 on Wed 5th Dec 2012 10:40 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Hardware quality"
henderson101 Member since:
2006-05-30

Mine -

(1) the screen is not flush to the case. You can push it level and it will stay for a while, but it will rise up again.. This is the left side. Google this, seems like a common issue, but I'm not going to disassemble the device to remove some of the internal padding as some pages suggest and it is old enough now that returning it to the store will just be a world of pain.

(2) The case (body) make an audible creak if you lightly squeeze it towards the centre on the (again) left side.

Other than that, it's just plasticy, the screen is slippery (will actually slide the device if you put it screen down on a slight incline.) It just doesn't say "quality" to me. I'm not yet fully regretting the purchase, but I do think I would think twice if I'd used it for a few days prior to purchase.

The device was a fairly early one... maybe the second run of UK availability, certainly when they were like hen's teeth.

Reply Score: 2

Thom, please clarify...
by everymantech on Tue 4th Dec 2012 15:27 UTC
everymantech
Member since:
2012-12-04

What do you mean by, "This is getting ridiculous, and it's not good for the market."?

The fundamentals of marketing tell us that competition is great for the overall market. We know that even though Microsoft dominated the market, Apple's innovation forced MS to evolve and that in turn benefited the consumer, which in turn benefited the market by allowing more consumers access to the technology.

Android in general are offering consumers products that other vendors are not and in response, those other vendors will have to adapt and add some features to their products in order to attract more consumers; benefiting the overall market by forcing competition and innovation.

If Android does become the dominant smartphone in the world, it would be because the other vendors failed to adapt and were left behind (like blackberry), that's how the market is supposed to work.

Instead of worrying about an android dominated world, you should be railing against those vendors who refuse to evolve and provide the customer with a reason to purchase their products.

If my mom is offered a free android phone or an inexpensive phone without a contract that does exactly what she wants, why should she purchase an iPhone or Windows phone for hundreds of dollars more, when they offer no (to her) difference in service and may even increase her cost to use it?

A healthy market provides room for all levels and types of users and if android is dominating a certain type of user, then the other vendors need to consider whether or not that market is their target audience. If it is, then they need to find a way to compete.

Unfortunately for the other vendors, android is able to crossover into different markets, offering the consumer many more options. The real downside being the fragmentation, but in reality how many consumers even notice what version of OS they are running? Especially those on contract that upgrade their phones every year or two anyway?

Edited 2012-12-04 15:33 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE: Thom, please clarify...
by henderson101 on Tue 4th Dec 2012 17:10 UTC in reply to "Thom, please clarify..."
henderson101 Member since:
2006-05-30

Yeah, don't try to use US models on the UK market.

The SIII is £26 a month, including data, calls, sms etc, that's it. That is stupidly cheap. Who wouldn't buy one at that price? God knows where they are making up the loss, because buying one on PAYG, the base iPhone 5 is £499, where as the SIII is 5p under £520. How do those economics work? Beyond me.

Reply Score: 2

Alternatives
by nej_simon on Tue 4th Dec 2012 16:36 UTC
nej_simon
Member since:
2011-02-11

For the love of Fiona, people, buy something that's not Android. I don't want to live in an Android-dominated smartphone world.


Sure, I'd love to try out some alternatives! But as far as I am concerned there are none.

With the iPhone you get an overpriced phone with little features and a super-locked down eco-system. It's also made by a company known for abusing ridiculous patents against its' competitors.

Windows phones are a little bit better but on the other hand they have a serious lack of apps and their eco-system is almost as locked down as Apple's. Microsoft is also using a protection racket to hurt android but at least they aren't trying to get competitor's products banned for having round corners.

Other platforms?

Symbian is dead, WebOS is pretty much dead, BlackBerry 10 is still a few months away and sailfish OS, firefox OS and tizen will probably take even longer. That is, if they even make it. Ubuntu phone is still vaporware.

I was really close to buying a N9 last year but I got another android phone instead because the platform had no future. Otherwise meego phones from Nokia would have been a really interesting option.

I don't like the current situation but at least the market isn't dominated by some locked-down proprietary platform.

Reply Score: 6

Android Dominated Smartphone world
by shotsman on Tue 4th Dec 2012 17:32 UTC
shotsman
Member since:
2005-07-22

IMHO, it is worse than that.

AFAIK, one manufacturer dominates the Android market and that is Samsung.
They are also trying to dominate a number of ther H/W markets. For examples TV's.

We could end up totally dependent upon one manufacturer for Android phones and that is not a good thing for anyone.

Whilst the Fandroids hate everything Apple and laught at Windows 8 devices, I feel that their smugness might come to bite them where it hurts at some point not too far in the future.

Therefore, I've decided not to purchase anything made by Samsung. I have a LG TV, an HTC phone, a Bosch Washing Machine etc. Actually it isn't all that difficult to do this at the moment but if SS become much bigger then how long will be have the luxury of choice in many areas.

Reply Score: 2

lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

Yours truly is developing a Samsung Smart TV app as we speak.

Reply Score: 2

tylerdurden Member since:
2009-03-17

Silly corporate FUD is silly. The Android market has a healthy number of vendors; Samsung, LG, HTC, Motorola, Sony, Acer, Asus, Google, etc, etc. That can most definitively not be said about the iOS or RIM gardens, for example.

The new Windows 8 Phone ecosystem is not a proven quality yet. But Microsoft has also managed to bring vendor diversity to their phone OS.

There is plenty of competition and offer in the mobile market place.
Perhaps that is why it's moving at such pace. BTW, a year and a half ago Samsung had a smaller share of the Android market than either HTC or Motorola. It's a bit too early to cry wolf regarding their dominance.

Edited 2012-12-05 01:02 UTC

Reply Score: 3

I'll stop buying Android phones...
by Neolander on Tue 4th Dec 2012 18:20 UTC
Neolander
Member since:
2010-03-08

...at the point where alternatives start sucking less for my usage patterns.

Which, considering that most Android OEMs have recently stopped caring about physical keyboards, might not be so far away.

Reply Score: 2

lucas_maximus
Member since:
2009-08-18

Pretty much everyone a couple of years ago got contracts with the desire for exactly the same reason ... best phone for the price point.

Reply Score: 2

You know what?
by ThomasFuhringer on Tue 4th Dec 2012 19:45 UTC
ThomasFuhringer
Member since:
2007-01-25

It is easy to fix that, Apple. Just lower the price!

Reply Score: 2

RE: You know what?
by henderson101 on Wed 5th Dec 2012 13:17 UTC in reply to "You know what?"
henderson101 Member since:
2006-05-30

And the quality? And the standards in the Chinese factories to reduce production costs? And employ more children? And employ virtual slave labour? Slippery slope you started there son. Something has to "give" somewhere. Apple isn't going to drop profit margins just because you want a cheap phone.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: You know what?
by ThomasFuhringer on Wed 5th Dec 2012 16:51 UTC in reply to "RE: You know what?"
ThomasFuhringer Member since:
2007-01-25

It costs Apple around USD 200 to produce an iPhone and they charge like USD 600 for it.
Apple does not pay those Chinese workers one cent more if I pay them more.
They could pay them double and still get to keep a nice profit margin.
It is all about how they maximise their overall profit and here we might be about to see a shift in the economics. They might have to lower the price to keep the volume up.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: You know what?
by henderson101 on Wed 5th Dec 2012 17:03 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: You know what?"
henderson101 Member since:
2006-05-30

If I draw a picture and I slap a $200 tag on it, you are free to buy that picture. If my friend makes a similar picture and charges $150, you are free to buy that instead. Your choice. I think my picture is better, but your choice is your own to make. No one is forcing you to buy a specific product, indeed if my picture is not your taste, buy another.

Replace "picture" with "phone" or "laptop" or whatever, and adjust the prices, and that is Apple's philosophy distilled. If you don't like it, that's *your* problem, not theirs. This is the bitter pill many Apple haters find hard to swallow.

Edited 2012-12-05 17:04 UTC

Reply Score: 1

If Nokia didn't kill Meego...
by tomz on Tue 4th Dec 2012 21:30 UTC
tomz
Member since:
2010-05-06

I would have the N950 (with QWERTY!) now, but it was/is almost impossible to get. We'll see what Jolla comes up with. I've written for the earlier Maemo, and if the ecosystem wasn't almost extinct (I still love my n810 wimax - I'd like the wimax better if it wasn't superceeded by my Mifi hotspot).

Apple has turned to barritry (8th circle of hell, 5th pit IIRC) instead of innovation.

Microsoft ... QED.

Maybe Tizen?

Or Blackberry 10. Note it is the perfect ten, to avoid being gored by someone else's OsX.

As long as Android can be rooted, I'll be rooting for Android.

Sometimes the lesser evil wins.

Reply Score: 1

A bit hard.
by RawMustard on Wed 5th Dec 2012 08:26 UTC
RawMustard
Member since:
2005-10-10

For the love of Fiona, people, buy something that's not Android.

They're all shit spying machines. I'm still on a Nokia N95. Just spent a 150 bucks to get it fixed. When someone comes out with a phone that I actually own and doesn't crap itself when I turn off all the bullshit features that want to track my every fart. Only then will I buy a new phone!

Young people today are all brainwashed idiots!

Reply Score: 1

Australian prices
by unclefester on Wed 5th Dec 2012 09:22 UTC
unclefester
Member since:
2007-01-13

Outright purchases in Australia:

Galaxy SIII 32GB ~$559
iPhone 5 32GB - $899

Reply Score: 3

RE: Australian prices
by henderson101 on Wed 5th Dec 2012 10:43 UTC in reply to "Australian prices"
henderson101 Member since:
2006-05-30

Yep, sounds about right... and if you really don't care which OS you have, which one would you buy? QED.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Australian prices
by lucas_maximus on Wed 5th Dec 2012 19:06 UTC in reply to "Australian prices"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

I work in Gibraltar, live in Spain.

Everyone in Gib has lots of disposable income thanks to the fact that we all in live in Spain, pay fuck all tax and generally enjoy the low prices of everything in Spain compared to the UK/Gibraltar.

Pretty much everyone in the office of young professionals either has one of two things.

1) Nokia Dumb Phone (1661, 100 etc) ... people like me that don't give a shit.
2) iPhone 3, 4, 4S.

Reply Score: 2

Could be creative related.
by jefro on Wed 5th Dec 2012 17:49 UTC
jefro
Member since:
2007-04-13

For some reason some types of creative people are drawn to Apple products.

Reply Score: 1