Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 11th Dec 2012 23:12 UTC
Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu "Perhaps most likely to raise some eyebrows is that Ubuntu 13.04 will let users purchase music or apps directly from the desktop Dash, without having to open a browser or a separate client." That's going to go down well.
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Comment by Drumhellar
by Drumhellar on Tue 11th Dec 2012 23:56 UTC
Drumhellar
Member since:
2005-07-12

Presumably it can be easily disabled? I don't really have a problem with this, as long as there is some transparency in how paid results are selected and presented.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Comment by Drumhellar
by nej_simon on Wed 12th Dec 2012 10:55 UTC in reply to "Comment by Drumhellar"
nej_simon Member since:
2011-02-11

I see a big problem. Mostly when you open the dash you'll be looking for local files and apps, even if you are a frequent buyer of for example amazon downloads (and a guess is that most Ubuntu users aren't). So sending all queries to canonical's servers and downloading the results will just waste data traffic and battery 99% of the time.

Hopefully you can still just apt-get purge unity-lens-shopping in 13.04.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Comment by Drumhellar
by Lennie on Wed 12th Dec 2012 13:05 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by Drumhellar"
Lennie Member since:
2007-09-22

Yes, you can do that.

Or go into the privacy settings to disable it as I understand it.

(but only for the default lenses, not for any self-installed lenses)

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment by Drumhellar
by Drumhellar on Wed 12th Dec 2012 21:48 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by Drumhellar"
Drumhellar Member since:
2005-07-12

I think that setting disables all lenses from transmitting data over the web, which is lame if you have any of the other lenses installed that you might actually want to use.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Drumhellar : Knowledge is Power!
by curio on Wed 12th Dec 2012 16:31 UTC in reply to "Comment by Drumhellar"
curio Member since:
2010-05-03

A widely accepted maxim is,"Knowledge is Power!".
Logically then, all "Knowledge collected specific to/about you is power over you!".
When one guards their privacy they deny others the ability to exert power over them.

All advertising/interactive functions that are based upon an individual's usage history are an affront to any notions of privacy and their long term socio-political affects will be dire as time passes.
At what specific point does the science of Madison Avenue/Google/Apple/Microsoft advertising become so fine grained through the constant and consistent surveillance of users, over time, that their algorithms become so utterly sophisticated that advertising moves from the realm of informational inducements to buy some product or service, to ads so compelling due to insider information that they become outrageous, out and out "Mind Rape!"?
All this in the hands of a very select few individuals. Combine this with a plethora of other perpetual, commercial and governmental databases and we'll have an "Authoritarian, Scientific Tyranny!" for our's and our children's futures.

Ads-based revenue models do not absolutely require user tracking to be effective. Generic, contextually based ads (i.e. Car wax ads in automotive enthusiasts venues etc..), are safe and non intrusive because they don't need to track an individual's activities to be effective. They aren't currently as profitable as the "Evil!" (tracking) alternatives but they're socially acceptable and nearly privacy/freedom neutral.

"Freedom will not, can not, survive (outlive) privacy! They are inseparable!".

Reply Score: 3

Comment by PieterGen
by PieterGen on Wed 12th Dec 2012 00:21 UTC
PieterGen
Member since:
2012-01-13

I quit Ubuntu when an upgrade borked my netbook, think it was 2 years ago. I went closer upstream. To Debian, in the form of Cruchbang. Wheezy does the stable(ish) job and the Sid version on this dual boot system is for the fun. OpenBox both of them.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Comment by PieterGen
by boblowski on Wed 12th Dec 2012 11:32 UTC in reply to "Comment by PieterGen"
boblowski Member since:
2007-07-23

Thanks for your tip -- never heard of CrunchBang before, even though I daily use Debian. Looks interesting, I'll give it a try later.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Comment by PieterGen
by MasterChief on Wed 12th Dec 2012 19:23 UTC in reply to "Comment by PieterGen"
MasterChief Member since:
2012-06-20

Hi, great comment, thank you for speaking about cruchbang, i've never heard of it before, but i've tried and i'm in love ;)

Reply Score: 1

Whatever....
by Casey99 on Wed 12th Dec 2012 00:31 UTC
Casey99
Member since:
2011-07-14

It doesn't really matter to me anymore. Ever since Unity I have not looked at Ubuntu again. Not because I didn't want to install XFCE or KDE. More because they have proven several times now that they have a corporate agenda. They don't listen, they don't care.

If Microsoft 2.0 goes under, I won't miss them.

Edited 2012-12-12 00:35 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE: Whatever....
by mkools on Wed 12th Dec 2012 01:33 UTC in reply to "Whatever...."
mkools Member since:
2005-10-11

And this all surprises you why? You think that Canonical is sending out free Ubuntu CD's just because they are so loyal?

You think it's a coincidence that Steam is going to run on Linux, Ubuntu only? And that Valve's Steambox is probably gonna run Ubuntu as well? (That's not confirmed yet but I'm almost sure it will) And now this?

This was all planned before Canonical even started Ubuntu because you have to go corporate, commercial to make something a success among the average consumer.

Linux on the desktop is only going to be widely used when there's commercial stuff attached to it. Android is a great example, without the Play store and Google behind it Android would have had zero market share right now.

So if you want Linux to be dominant on the desktop, this is the only way to do it (unfortunately).

And yes I would hate to have Microsoft 2.0 but I rather have two Microsofts than just one. At least we'll have some sort of competition then.

Welcome to Planet Earth buddy, where everyone has a hidden agenda and corporate profit is the only thing that's important in today's world.

Edited 2012-12-12 01:34 UTC

Reply Score: 12

RE[2]: Whatever....
by Casey99 on Wed 12th Dec 2012 01:59 UTC in reply to "RE: Whatever...."
Casey99 Member since:
2011-07-14

Steam is not going to run exclusively on Ubuntu. There have already been Debian users accepted into beta testing and users have already begun running it on Arch. It will run on every major linux distribution, one way or another.

Canonical is never going to get off the ground financially. They clearly have no idea how to run a company.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Whatever....
by galvanash on Wed 12th Dec 2012 03:13 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Whatever...."
galvanash Member since:
2006-01-25

Canonical is never going to get off the ground financially. They clearly have no idea how to run a company.


Maybe. But I'm pretty sure not trying to figure out ways to make money is an even worse strategy...

I don't personally use Ubuntu, so I don't care one way or the other. But what exactly would you have them do? Your comment intrigued me because you said "company", not "project" or "non-proft" or whatever.

If they are a company (you said so yourself), then their purpose is commercial - i.e. they exist to make money. They make a product mostly targeted at consumer desktops. They give it away, only asking for donations (which is at best going to be small change). Selling support is obviously right out - desktop users dont by support...

What's left?

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: Whatever....
by Casey99 on Wed 12th Dec 2012 03:49 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Whatever...."
Casey99 Member since:
2011-07-14

They have an identity crises and that should have been solved years ago. They came out with a desktop version of Ubuntu, then quickly decided they would embrace netbooks. Well netbooks died and Ubuntu never made it big on netbooks anyway. Now they want to break into tablets and have done a terrible job doing so. All the while their server product is crap compared to Debian, CentOS/Redhat, and SUSE and has almost no way of making money.

Now they are rumored to want to do more with set-top boxes? What a terrible idea. Android forks can and will dominate this market. Canonical needs to figure out what they want to do, 2 years ago, and stick with it. By trying to be the jack of all trades, they are becoming the master of none.

Edited 2012-12-12 03:58 UTC

Reply Score: 4

RE[5]: Whatever....
by galvanash on Wed 12th Dec 2012 04:48 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Whatever...."
galvanash Member since:
2006-01-25

They have an identity crises and that should have been solved years ago... SNIP ...By trying to be the jack of all trades, they are becoming the master of none.


I actually agree with you on almost all of your points. But you seem to be implying that if they had stuck to a pure Linux desktop play they would be profitable by now...

Thing is, I think the reason Canonical is flailing all over the place trying to figure out alternative ways to make money is that they don't and never have made any real money on pure desktop...

In fact, I don't see any way they could - no one else has figured out how to crack that nut either... I expect after 8 years Shuttleworth is a bit tired of floating the operation, and trying to figure out new revenue streams seems pragmatic to me.

I just question the point of blaming them for trying different things - its either that or just give up and fold if you ask me.

Goodwill doesn't pay salaries...

Edited 2012-12-12 04:49 UTC

Reply Score: 8

RE[6]: Whatever....
by moondevil on Thu 13th Dec 2012 13:05 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Whatever...."
moondevil Member since:
2005-07-08

That is what in all my years of software development I have come to realize.

Open source as business is only possible when you can make services or hardware on top of it.

Most ways open source companies are doing business are not possible in the domestic market of the desktop environments.

Reply Score: 4

RE[7]: Whatever....
by anda_skoa on Thu 13th Dec 2012 17:49 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Whatever...."
anda_skoa Member since:
2005-07-07

Open source as business is only possible when you can make services or hardware on top of it.


Or when your business is creating or tailoring software and not distribution.

But maybe you had that as part of services since this is, as the word tailoring already hints at, a form of service like people having a tailor create new or change existing clothing to fit exactly the specs (measurements) of the customers

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Whatever....
by windowshasyou on Wed 12th Dec 2012 16:39 UTC in reply to "RE: Whatever...."
windowshasyou Member since:
2011-05-14

"You think it's a coincidence that Steam is going to run on Linux, Ubuntu only?" I use LFS and Funtoo, yet I've been accepted into the Steam beta program. Not that I use it because I looked at the list of games on there and saw that nearly all of them already had a Linux client and I wasn't about to pay for the same games twice. Maybe when they port something like Final Fantasy 7/8 or command and conquer to Linux will I consider purchasing those games again.

Edited 2012-12-12 16:41 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE: Whatever....
by Soulbender on Wed 12th Dec 2012 02:43 UTC in reply to "Whatever...."
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Please tell me more about how you're not liking something for personal reasons that has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Whatever....
by Casey99 on Wed 12th Dec 2012 03:20 UTC in reply to "RE: Whatever...."
Casey99 Member since:
2011-07-14

Nothing to do with the topic at hand? Did you even read what the topic is or do you just like to troll?

Reply Score: 0

RE[3]: Whatever....
by lucas_maximus on Wed 12th Dec 2012 12:33 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Whatever...."
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

You do realise that developers do like getting paid.

Like it or not pretty much all progress in Linux has been paid (either directly or indirectly) by corporations such as Redhat, Oracle, Intel and even Microsoft more recently.

If you don't like corporations I suggest you write your own operating system.

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: Whatever....
by Casey99 on Wed 12th Dec 2012 15:37 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Whatever...."
Casey99 Member since:
2011-07-14

I am well aware developers like to get paid, and they should. That doesn't mean Canonical should act the way it does.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Whatever....
by lucas_maximus on Wed 12th Dec 2012 17:41 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Whatever...."
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

What exactly do you think they should do then? Also what is wrong with them allowing in OS purchases of media precisely?

Ubuntu isn't used for Enterprise (neither server or desktop Suse, Oracle and Redhat have that wrapped up) and you can't really charge money for Desktop Linux for the masses because most people just use another free Distro (many have failed before, Linspire I recall was a Debian based distro).

Affiliate schemes (Amazon and probably Steam) and App stores is the only way they can realistically pull in a profit.

Ubuntu doesn't even mention it is a Linux distro on the the home page.

Edited 2012-12-12 17:42 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE: Whatever....
by DavidCollins on Wed 12th Dec 2012 11:22 UTC in reply to "Whatever...."
DavidCollins Member since:
2010-03-22

If by "corporate agenda" you mean "an agenda to make a profit", then of course they have one.

For a long time, Canonical was just bankrolled by Mark Shuttleworth's own money, Ubuntu and the Linux ecosystem as a whole benefited from the money that was put into it, but it was never going to last forever.

Canonical has been a loss making company all these years and is trying to change that. If they succeed, we have a successful company that promotes Linux and gives funding to open source project. If they don't, we'll it'll keep going up until Shuttleworth decides to stop funding them.

Yes, in order to reach this probability they'll likely come up with other revenue generating methods that long time Linux advocates will find distasteful; but that's just the reality of the situation.

Reply Score: 4

Old news.
by UltraZelda64 on Wed 12th Dec 2012 00:43 UTC
UltraZelda64
Member since:
2006-12-05

I only briefly used Ubuntu, mainly around 2008 if I remember right. That's around the time the OS finally got decent, its quality peaked, and then Canonical started selling out and began going down the path of turning the OS to complete garbage. All in rapid-fire succession.

This is not really news by now; it's just the same old shit, different day. A new (increasingly bad) release for a new year... that's about all there is new here, and given that this combination of events has been happening every two releases now, even it's not all that special.

Reply Score: 1

Comment by jerkofalltrades
by jerkofalltrades on Wed 12th Dec 2012 00:53 UTC
jerkofalltrades
Member since:
2012-12-11

To the average user/consumer this may seem like a convenience or cool feature, but I myself don't know anybody who uses Ubuntu for anything other than an easy Linux development box.

I could care less myself but it is tiring to see more marketing and advertising rammed down users throats especially in a "Open Source" environment. They are free to modify their creation in anyway they want there are other DE's to install on Ubuntu, if you have decided you want to use this distribution.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Comment by jerkofalltrades
by allanregistos on Wed 12th Dec 2012 04:59 UTC in reply to "Comment by jerkofalltrades"
allanregistos Member since:
2011-02-10

To the average user/consumer this may seem like a convenience or cool feature, but I myself don't know anybody who uses Ubuntu for anything other than an easy Linux development box.


Ubuntu 10.04 was used in several businesses here in our City. One is a bookstore, other one is a chain of convenience store, and a musical store. I think there are others that I believe will make up 10 to 15% share of the overall businesses in the city. So therefore, Linux desktop in general is a good choice for businesses if they choose it as their business tool. However large swap of developers are using Visual Studio and MS SQL for their business software titles and worst recommending the MS SQL express for businesses or a crack version. These developers do not know how to use PostgreSQL or MySQL.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Comment by jerkofalltrades
by Morgan on Wed 12th Dec 2012 11:57 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by jerkofalltrades"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

10.04 was the last Ubuntu I enjoyed using; I still keep a disc handy and I'm tempted to try it out on this new workstation.

It seems like everything before it was fast but too unstable, and everything after was slow and buggy.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by jerkofalltrades
by tidux on Wed 12th Dec 2012 09:16 UTC in reply to "Comment by jerkofalltrades"
tidux Member since:
2011-08-13

The Obama campaign used Ubuntu for the PCs in their office - and they were able to use a single PC running Ubuntu and six thin clients velcroed to the backs of monitors rather than seven full PCs running Linux or Windows, in my office alone. They themed it up to look like Win7, but had it locked down tighter than a nun's asshole, so they were essentially idiot-proof internet terminals to access the campaign's private web apps.

Reply Score: 6

RE[2]: Comment by jerkofalltrades
by Morgan on Wed 12th Dec 2012 11:55 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by jerkofalltrades"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

Not to get all political, but this demonstrates one of the reasons I was happy that Obama won the second term: He is probably the first president who actually understands and respects technology. He's no saint to the digital world, that's for sure, but perhaps he'll be the first in a line of presidents who actually understand why the laws need to change to keep up with technological advances.

Reply Score: 3

Comment by marcp
by marcp on Wed 12th Dec 2012 00:54 UTC
marcp
Member since:
2007-11-23

I've learned my lesson already: if I want a semi-automatic software weapon, I go with Debian GNU/Linux ;) It saves me a lot of work and gives me so much choice at the same time.
And I'm happy to see more and more people going Debian everyday.
I find it hard to work on either bare-metal, or full-automatic distros. Not my pair of shoes. The only bare-metal OS I'm willing to hack on is OpenBSD. The rest it not worth it IMHO.

Reply Score: 2

Comment by Luminair
by Luminair on Wed 12th Dec 2012 01:20 UTC
Luminair
Member since:
2007-03-30

I've seen hardcore ubuntu fans complain that ubuntu 12.1 sucks compared to 12. and it has been like this for years. I dont remember the last time someone said an ubuntu release was a big improvement. so every indication I've seen says this ship is sinking

Reply Score: 3

RE: Comment by Luminair
by Casey99 on Wed 12th Dec 2012 01:27 UTC in reply to "Comment by Luminair"
Casey99 Member since:
2011-07-14

The last release I saw where people said improvements where made was 10.04. It's been downhill ever since.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Comment by Luminair
by zima on Mon 17th Dec 2012 13:52 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by Luminair"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06
RE: Comment by Luminair
by UltraZelda64 on Wed 12th Dec 2012 02:11 UTC in reply to "Comment by Luminair"
UltraZelda64 Member since:
2006-12-05

8.04 was Ubuntu's best release as far as I'm concerned, and IMO the first (only?) release to actually feel mature. Before that, it always had a "getting there... not quite ready yet" feeling to it. 8.10 could have been decent, but I recall it being extremely buggy and unstable. After 8.10, Ubuntu started going off the deep end in every way Canonical could possibly conceive; Ubuntu has effectively been dead to me ever since.

Meanwhile, as Canonical continues digging Ubuntu's grave, Linux Mint has been "Ubuntu Done Right" for a while now, and their parent, Debian--already good before--continues to get even better.

It's funny, with Ubuntu destroying themselves, virtually *all* of the other distributions (ie. Ubuntu's competition) look even better without having to do any extra work on their own part. Yet, unlike Ubuntu which continues to get worse, most of the rest are improving as usual. Good thing there's choice.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Comment by Luminair
by zima on Mon 17th Dec 2012 14:06 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by Luminair"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

as Canonical continues digging Ubuntu's grave, Linux Mint has been "Ubuntu Done Right" for a while now, and their parent, Debian--already good before--continues to get even better.
It's funny, with Ubuntu destroying themselves, virtually *all* of the other distributions (ie. Ubuntu's competition) look even better without having to do any extra work on their own part. Yet, unlike Ubuntu which continues to get worse, most of the rest are improving as usual.

It's funny, some loud(ish) pundits on the web like to see it that^ way, but Ubuntu is likely the only really growing desktop distro... (compare http://stats.wikimedia.org/archive/squid_reports/2012-10/SquidRepor... with http://stats.wikimedia.org/archive/squid_reports/2011-10/SquidRepor... - it's also funny what's happening to Mint or Debian share)

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by Luminair
by Soulbender on Wed 12th Dec 2012 02:57 UTC in reply to "Comment by Luminair"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

I've seen hardcore ubuntu fans complain that ubuntu 12.1 sucks compared to 12


You mean 12.10 compared to 12.04, right?

I dont remember the last time someone said an ubuntu release was a big improvement.


The last releases have all been big improvements, Unity's gotten better, the Software Center has gotten better, Server is rock solid etc etc.
There, now someone has said it.

Edited 2012-12-12 02:58 UTC

Reply Score: 7

RE[2]: Comment by Luminair
by UltraZelda64 on Wed 12th Dec 2012 04:13 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by Luminair"
UltraZelda64 Member since:
2006-12-05

It's amazing that anyone would willingly stick around for the rocky road Canonical is taking its Ubuntu users for a ride on.

That said, it's not a surprise that something that was initially released as an incomplete piece of crap that could only get less crappy (Unity) is actually supposedly being improved.

I heard Fedora comes with Unity; it'll be amusing (yet not surprising) if they don't include all these layers of spyware that Canonical is integrating into Unity.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Comment by Luminair
by allanregistos on Wed 12th Dec 2012 05:02 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by Luminair"
allanregistos Member since:
2011-02-10

It's amazing that anyone would willingly stick around for the rocky road Canonical is taking its Ubuntu users for a ride on.

Have you ever used their server version?

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Comment by Luminair
by UltraZelda64 on Wed 12th Dec 2012 05:23 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by Luminair"
UltraZelda64 Member since:
2006-12-05

I never really needed it, but to be honest I would probably choose a different distribution for server machines. It might not be the most "correct" way of looking at things depending on who ask, but when I think servers Ubuntu is the last distro to come to mind. And Canonical has given me reasons to distrust them as a corporation with their actions regarding their desktop OS, so I won't be rushing to forgive them any time soon to try their latest server release. They've raised privacy issues and made it clear that they have a selfish agenda that takes top priority over their users, which they only keep reinforcing (to the point that this story is really nothing new).

First spyware, now adware--all installed automatically with the system. No thanks; the trust is long gone.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment by Luminair
by Soulbender on Wed 12th Dec 2012 05:10 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by Luminair"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

It's amazing that anyone would willingly stick around for the rocky road Canonical is taking its Ubuntu users for a ride on.


What's even more amazing is the sheer number of butthurt complainers that come out every time there's a Ubuntu news item.
We get it, you don't use it. Now grow up and move on.
Or maybe....
Here's an idea; how about I whine and complain in every RH/CentOS/Suse/whatever item about how much I think they suck? That would be fun, wouldn't it?

Edited 2012-12-12 05:13 UTC

Reply Score: 5

RE[4]: Comment by Luminair
by WereCatf on Wed 12th Dec 2012 05:23 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by Luminair"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

What's even more amazing is the sheer number of butthurt complainers that come out every time there's a Ubuntu news item.
We get it, you don't use it. Now grow up and move on.
Or maybe....
Here's an idea; how about I whine and complain in every RH/CentOS/Suse/whatever item about how much I think they suck? That would be fun, wouldn't it?


I have to agree. I don't like Unity, I don't like the shopping lens, but do I spend my time going around bashing Ubuntu? Nope, I don't. Why not? Because I realize that they're still trying to be the Joe Blow - friendly distro, they're trying to be a complete experience instead of just yet-another randomly-hashed collection of F/OSS software, and they are willing to try things others seemingly aren't.

Yes, Canonical is a corporation and quite obviously there's the wish that they could turn out profit from their operation. But that in and of itself doesn't necessarily mean Ubuntu is a bad product or that they're out only for our money; what most of the whiners seem to be completely oblivious to is the fact that for many Joe Blows things like the one mentioned here in the title are actually welcome -- it doesn't matter what you, the niche group, think as you're already technically capable enough to remove the things you don't like!

Reply Score: 4

RE[5]: Comment by Luminair
by moondevil on Wed 12th Dec 2012 07:41 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by Luminair"
moondevil Member since:
2005-07-08

Yes, many FOOS users seem to think software developers don't have to pay for their stuff.

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: Comment by Luminair
by UltraZelda64 on Wed 12th Dec 2012 05:31 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by Luminair"
UltraZelda64 Member since:
2006-12-05

Here's an idea; how about I whine and complain in every RH/CentOS/Suse/whatever item about how much I think they suck? That would be fun, wouldn't it?

Except that unlike Microsoft, Apple and more recently as of the last several years Ubuntu, those you mentioned aren't making the news regularly for pulling off generally questionable tactics, including potential breaches of privacy. There may be a few exceptions here and there on occasion, but Ubuntu seems to be the one continuing to make all the headlines--and usually in a negative way.

Edited 2012-12-12 05:45 UTC

Reply Score: 0

RE[4]: Comment by Luminair
by zima on Sun 16th Dec 2012 13:58 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by Luminair"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

What's even more amazing is the sheer number of butthurt complainers that come out every time there's a Ubuntu news item.

What's even more "funny" - Ubuntu is quite likely the only desktop distro really growing... (compare http://stats.wikimedia.org/archive/squid_reports/2012-10/SquidRepor... with http://stats.wikimedia.org/archive/squid_reports/2011-10/SquidRepor... ...it's also funny to point out to them those Wikimedia stats)

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by Luminair
by Soulbender on Wed 12th Dec 2012 07:03 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by Luminair"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

"Ermagherd Urbuntru", better down vote anyone who likes it.
Classy.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Comment by Luminair
by zima on Sun 16th Dec 2012 14:16 UTC in reply to "Comment by Luminair"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

I've seen hardcore ubuntu fans complain that ubuntu 12.1 sucks compared to 12. and it has been like this for years. I dont remember the last time someone said an ubuntu release was a big improvement. so every indication I've seen says this ship is sinking

"hardcore ubuntu fans" don't mean much, beyond influencing (almost meaningless) Distrowatch stats.

Ubuntu is likely the only desktop distro really growing, over the last few years (compare http://stats.wikimedia.org/archive/squid_reports/2012-10/SquidRepor... with http://stats.wikimedia.org/archive/squid_reports/2011-10/SquidRepor... )

Reply Score: 2

Not A Problem
by drcoldfoot on Wed 12th Dec 2012 01:51 UTC
drcoldfoot
Member since:
2006-08-25

I don't see a problem with it, as long as I can turn it off. Canonical needs to keep the Ubuntu project prospering and innovative. I believe that people are associating this model with Spyware that's commonly associated with Windows, and Mobile OSs like iOS and Android. If Canonical decides to make it more difficult, and/or nearly impossible to disable it, or introduce hidden spyware, then the project is officially dead in my eyes.

Reply Score: 3

Again?
by Sodapop on Wed 12th Dec 2012 09:26 UTC
Sodapop
Member since:
2005-07-06

Yet again you guys miss the entire point!

Canonical is the only thing holding Linux UP at the moment, and Canonical are the people who brought Linux mainstream as a Microsoft alternative.

So they do some things wrong, OK, lets work together and fix it; that's what Open Source is about. Coming into a thread and wishing their death, is the same as wishing for the death of Linux. It shows what side you're really on, and it's not Linux.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Again?
by Johann Chua on Wed 12th Dec 2012 09:46 UTC in reply to "Again?"
Johann Chua Member since:
2005-07-22

Desktop Linux is a drop in the bucket compared to Linux on everything else. I use Ubuntu, but I know better than to equate it to Linux as a whole.

Reply Score: 6

Comment by MOS6510
by MOS6510 on Wed 12th Dec 2012 10:24 UTC
MOS6510
Member since:
2011-05-12

Ubuntu Linux isn't something that appeals to most typical Linux users, but I don't think that's their target audience. They have success with people that are more average computer user than Linux geek.

Linux, on the desktop, has never gone anywhere. It's been all about fragmentation, thousands of distributions, features for geeks, etc...

Ubuntu is more "corporate" than others, but at least that's moving them in a direction. If someone is going to put Linux on Joe Average's desktop at home it's Ubuntu. The Amazon thing is something Joe Average will probably appreciate.

If you don't like Ubuntu there are plenty of other options.

Reply Score: 2

All who bash Ubuntu...
by Gestahlt on Wed 12th Dec 2012 11:10 UTC
Gestahlt
Member since:
2011-10-17

...are idiots.

Guys, this Distribution brought a lot of people to Linux and spawned quite a few VERY good Ubuntu based desktops. You have for no other distro such a good documentation and community help. STOP FUCKING BASHING IT.

Yeah, they want to make money so what? Others do that as well with such functionality.

I personally use Mint for my daily work and it is on Ubuntu basis. I also started Linux for "Real" with Ubuntu. Unity drove me away from it, But i do not blame Canonical for trying something different. Same as MS has its Metro bullshit. I dont like it usability wise but at least they are trying.

Ubuntu also supporting Wayland is for me a huge plus in my books and i really like to see them going on.

So instead of bashing them, support them. If you buy amazon stuff (and most of us are) then use their Interface (In a VM Maybe). They did good and they deserve some credit (dollar / euro / whatever).

Reply Score: 2

RE: All who bash Ubuntu...
by r_a_trip on Wed 12th Dec 2012 14:21 UTC in reply to "All who bash Ubuntu..."
r_a_trip Member since:
2005-07-06

No, just no.

We (people who care and see this as the wrong move) won't stop criticizing harebrained ideas. Even if some computer users, to stupid to know better, go ooh and aah over an advertisement capable of launching programs, it doesn't mean that people, who know better than to infect computers with shady adware, shouldn't try and protect the less smart from themselves.

A "start menu" is not a webshop. Canonical shouldn't be busy to muddle these two concepts together, so they can mooch off a bit of affiliate revenue. Canonical needs to start to sell real products (where are the dedicated Ubuntu branded phones, tablets and laptops?) and not these parasitic manoeuvres to become an unnecessary middle man. Canonical doesn't add anything substantial to online shopping by pulling it into their "start menu".

Don't try to counter with "convenience". Promoting brainrot by allowing people to stop thinking is not innovation, it is insanity.

Reply Score: 6

RE[2]: All who bash Ubuntu...
by WereCatf on Wed 12th Dec 2012 14:35 UTC in reply to "RE: All who bash Ubuntu..."
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

Even if some computer users, to stupid to know better, go ooh and aah over an advertisement capable of launching programs, it doesn't mean that people, who know better than to infect computers with shady adware, shouldn't try and protect the less smart from themselves.


Watch now, you're entering quite a slippery slope. I know quite a few dictators using the same line of logics..

Don't try to counter with "convenience". Promoting brainrot by allowing people to stop thinking is not innovation, it is insanity.


Let's remove cars, they exist only for convenience and promote bad health. Let's remove bikes, too, for the same reason. Let's remove calculators, they also exist for convenience and promote brainrot.

I wonder...

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: All who bash Ubuntu...
by r_a_trip on Wed 12th Dec 2012 16:02 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: All who bash Ubuntu..."
r_a_trip Member since:
2005-07-06

You forget that this is not Canonical helping users. This is Canonical trying to make "consumerism" a daily part of the operating system, in the hope to get their fingers into the wallets of impulsive folks.

They could opt to do some real business, but wedging themselves as an unnecessary middle man between people and real online shops is easier.

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: All who bash Ubuntu...
by WereCatf on Wed 12th Dec 2012 16:54 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: All who bash Ubuntu..."
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

You forget that this is not Canonical helping users. This is Canonical trying to make "consumerism" a daily part of the operating system, in the hope to get their fingers into the wallets of impulsive folks.


And yet you would be crying the same thing if the data went straight to Amazon or something and didn't touch Canonical at all -- you're against the basic premise of integrating a fast, easy shopping experience to the desktop at all.

They could opt to do some real business, but wedging themselves as an unnecessary middle man between people and real online shops is easier.


Go ahead and provide some insight into this "real business," you apparently are plenty capable in these kinds of matters and know how to run a multinational, multimillion dollar company. Do keep in mind that Ubuntu is aimed at Joe Blow and he won't be buying support contracts and that already ruins the Red Hat - style business.

Reply Score: 3

RE[5]: All who bash Ubuntu...
by r_a_trip on Wed 12th Dec 2012 22:36 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: All who bash Ubuntu..."
r_a_trip Member since:
2005-07-06

It'simple. Canonical doesn't have a hardware story. Doesn't have a compelling services story. So far they have a fairly decent distro with disappointing revenue.

This won't change until they start putting out dedicated Ubuntu hardware. Not the Dell dabling, not the Nexus 7 hack. Get their own hardware in retail. Build a genuine shopping experience, not toying with affiliate chump change.

Take a real page from Apple. Truly deliver something complete and coherent and have it be a Canonical product beginning to end. Stop amateurishly toying with other peoples hardware (Windows PC's and Google tablets). Bring your own machines to market.

Take the Ubuntu One services up to snuff and don't make it be partly based on other peoples stores (7 digital). Make Ubuntu Music have it's own licensed music.

Go into publishing with compelling "Ubuntu" books. Target seniors, teens, soccer moms and who ever else needs to read stuff to make the most of the Ubuntu eco system.

Make Ubuntu truly that hinted at one stop computing system. Stop telling us about all the possible exiting things and make sure stores have really exiting Ubuntu stuff on the shelves. The stuff where we can put real cold hard cash into and feel good about spending it!

Does that answer your question?

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: All who bash Ubuntu...
by zima on Sun 16th Dec 2012 14:06 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: All who bash Ubuntu..."
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Let's remove cars, they exist only for convenience and promote bad health. Let's remove bikes, too, for the same reason.

Bikes, bad health? ;p

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: All who bash Ubuntu...
by Gestahlt on Wed 12th Dec 2012 15:19 UTC in reply to "RE: All who bash Ubuntu..."
Gestahlt Member since:
2011-10-17

This has nothing to do with convienience and muddling you fool. CanĀ“t you read or just like to see your words?

I have no issues with criticism at all. In fact, i hate also this kind of promotion. But it is a common practice those days to earn your money by advertisements.

But:
You criticize Canonical for effort they paid in advance. They are TRYING to get money out of it, they are not forcing it on you (well.. okay this we can argue about. But my point here is: you CAN remove it).
All i see here is whining and bickering without thinking for their achievements and work.

Its not like they turned into Darth Vader now if you get my point.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: All who bash Ubuntu...
by r_a_trip on Wed 12th Dec 2012 16:07 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: All who bash Ubuntu..."
r_a_trip Member since:
2005-07-06

The way they go about getting money now is sleazy. They better drum up some legitimate business or slip further into irrelevance.

I criticize because I still care. Once I go quiet, it is Canonical who?

One more thing:
But it is a common practice those days to earn your money by advertisements.

Yeah, that everybody is doing it (or trying to), doesn't make it an ok thing to do.

Edited 2012-12-12 16:11 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: All who bash Ubuntu...
by lucas_maximus on Wed 12th Dec 2012 18:04 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: All who bash Ubuntu..."
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

Yeah, that everybody is doing it (or trying to), doesn't make it an ok thing to do.


Why not?

You are free to ignore it.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: All who bash Ubuntu...
by r_a_trip on Wed 12th Dec 2012 20:00 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: All who bash Ubuntu..."
r_a_trip Member since:
2005-07-06

True, I'm free to ignore it and I'm free to express my opion about such practises.

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: All who bash Ubuntu...
by lucas_maximus on Wed 12th Dec 2012 21:52 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: All who bash Ubuntu..."
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

And what is your criteria on validity about such practices? It seems you like to say it is wrong and you don't really ever say why?

Edited 2012-12-12 21:55 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: All who bash Ubuntu...
by r_a_trip on Wed 12th Dec 2012 22:46 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: All who bash Ubuntu..."
r_a_trip Member since:
2005-07-06

If everything is a tradeable commodity, even privacy and personal life, one has to wonder at what point you stop being human and start becoming another raw material.

Do we have to publicize every ounce of our being human to satisfy the unquenchable thirst for money?

Some will say yes, but I deem the cost too high.

Reply Score: 4

RE[4]: All who bash Ubuntu...
by zima on Sun 16th Dec 2012 13:52 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: All who bash Ubuntu..."
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

or slip further into irrelevance.
I criticize because I still care. Once I go quiet, it is Canonical who?

"Slip further into irrelevance"? One decent set of stats shows Ubuntu to be the only desktop Linux that really grows: http://stats.wikimedia.org/archive/squid_reports/2012-10/SquidRepor... (vs a year ago http://stats.wikimedia.org/archive/squid_reports/2011-10/SquidRepor... - all other notable desktop distros decreased in the same period)

Once you go quiet, hardly anybody will notice; Ubuntu will likely continue its rise.

Edited 2012-12-16 13:54 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: All who bash Ubuntu...
by Soulbender on Sat 15th Dec 2012 05:32 UTC in reply to "RE: All who bash Ubuntu..."
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Even if some computer users, to stupid to know better, go ooh and aah over an advertisement capable of launching program


Oh praise be God, you're here to save me from the evils of Ubuntu. WTF?

A "start menu" is not a webshop.

Why not? Because you say so? What does it matter?

(where are the dedicated Ubuntu branded phones, tablets and laptops?)


So re-branding existing hardware and selling that, probably with a markup, is ok....

Promoting brainrot by allowing people to stop thinking is not innovation, it is insanity.


Exactly how does being able to purchase things you want from the start menu equals brain rot?
Would it be ok Ubuntu sold only their own hardware in the start menu?

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: All who bash Ubuntu...
by zima on Sun 16th Dec 2012 14:04 UTC in reply to "RE: All who bash Ubuntu..."
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Don't try to counter with "convenience". Promoting brainrot by allowing people to stop thinking is not innovation, it is insanity.

Though that's how progress generally works - devising new types of prostheses for our minds (books instead of memorising everything; or... computers - that word meant "human who computes" not a long time ago)

Edited 2012-12-16 14:04 UTC

Reply Score: 2

lucas_maximus
Member since:
2009-08-18

This is pretty much how the Kindle works.

Reply Score: 3

RAWR!
by andrewclunn on Wed 12th Dec 2012 15:24 UTC
andrewclunn
Member since:
2012-11-05

REALLY ANGRY COMMENT ABOUT EVIL CAPITALISM AND HOW UBUNTU IS HORRIBLE AND SHOULD DIE, EVEN THOUGH IT'S FREE AND NOBODY IS FORCING ME TO USE IT! YELLING!!! ANGER!!! MICRO$OFT 2.0!!!!!

Reply Score: 4

RE: RAWR!
by Gestahlt on Wed 12th Dec 2012 15:52 UTC in reply to "RAWR!"
Gestahlt Member since:
2011-10-17

TROLLING

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: RAWR!
by zima on Sun 16th Dec 2012 14:06 UTC in reply to "RE: RAWR!"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

MORE TROLLING

Reply Score: 2

v GNU/Linux: What-Sucks-The-Least Choices!
by curio on Wed 12th Dec 2012 20:01 UTC
Comment by ilovebeer
by ilovebeer on Thu 13th Dec 2012 16:54 UTC
ilovebeer
Member since:
2011-08-08

I don't use $Ubuntu$ anyway so I don't give a damn what they do.

Reply Score: 3