Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 30th Jan 2013 23:14 UTC
Windows So, just as Windows Phone 7.8 has finally started rolling out to devices, Microsoft and Google kiss and make up about the whole dropping of EAS thing. Google has extended its EAS support for Windows Phone users for six months, and Microsoft will add CardDAV and CalDAV support to Windows Phone (but not Windows 8/RT, so those users are still screwed by Microsoft's incompetence).
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But butâ¦
by darknexus on Wed 30th Jan 2013 23:43 UTC
darknexus
Member since:
2008-07-15

Wasn't the whole point of this cross-merging of not only the Windows UI but the underpinnings of the os meant to bring functional parity between the various Phone/RT/PC devices at some point? Surely it wouldn't be much effort to implement these across all Windows platforms unless, of course, Microsoft is just acting with their usual incompetence. It would seem that, if the end is to bring each platform into line with the other, there'd be no better time to start doing that than now.

Reply Score: 4

RE: But but�
by bentoo on Thu 31st Jan 2013 02:23 UTC in reply to "But butâ¦"
bentoo Member since:
2012-09-21

It would seem that, if the end is to bring each platform into line with the other, there'd be no better time to start doing that than now.


Because Google tells them to? Seriously?

Reply Score: 2

RE: But but�
by Nelson on Thu 31st Jan 2013 05:24 UTC in reply to "But butâ¦"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

It is part incompetence, part time/engineering constraints.

Thing are better with WP8 when it comes to sharing between the platforms, but its in the midst of a transition rather than at the end of one.

As a dev, I can tell you that it needs to happen faster and its annoying considering the potential.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: But butâ�æ
by bentoo on Thu 31st Jan 2013 15:12 UTC in reply to "RE: But but�"
bentoo Member since:
2012-09-21

It is part incompetence, part time/engineering constraints.


Just like Google's incompetence for not supporting CalDAV and CardDAV in Android right?

Edited 2013-01-31 15:12 UTC

Reply Score: 1

Cross platform code design can be easy...
by sgtrock on Thu 31st Jan 2013 15:21 UTC in reply to "RE: But but�"
sgtrock Member since:
2011-05-13

...if you start with the known assumption that you're going to be supporting more than one hardware platform. For example, Linux and the BSDs all support a HUGE range of hardware platforms. The amount of architecture specific code is less than 5% in those cases.

Yet Microsoft seems to have failed to do so in this instance for no really good reason. What is mind boggling to me is just how badly Microsoft seems to be at it these days, given how good they used to be at it. Anyone else fondly remember the early versions of NT on the DEC Alpha chipset? :-)

Reply Score: 2

lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

The problem is not necessarily the code itself, it the QA and test devices. I know I been in situations where I haven't supported X and Y because there just wasn't time and it had to be de-scoped.

Reply Score: 3

Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

What specifically are you talking about? The differences in XAML?

They are results of being caught in different release cycles.

Windows Phone uses the Silverlight Runtime. Windows 8 uses its successor.

During the WP8 timeline there was not enough time to backport the Windows 8 XAML engine.

It is incompetence from a resource budgeting POV (they prioritized other things above it), but I don't think it speaks of a lack of portability.

Silverlight is notoriously portable. Windows Phone 8 uses the same Windows Kernel, and even the same Windows Runtime a Windows 8. The only difference is the XAML stacks.

Even the .NET engine moved from .NET CF 3.7 to CoreCLR 4.5 to match Windows 8. That was a huge technical feat, especially since they maintained compat with WP7 apps.

Edited 2013-01-31 17:41 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE: But but�
by StephenBeDoper on Fri 1st Feb 2013 01:29 UTC in reply to "But butâ¦"
StephenBeDoper Member since:
2005-07-06

Surely it wouldn't be much effort to implement these across all Windows platforms unless, of course, Microsoft is just acting with their usual incompetence.


To paraphrase Heinlein's corollary to Hanlon's Razor:

"Never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity... but still, don't rule out malice."

Reply Score: 2

Part right
by oiaohm on Fri 1st Feb 2013 02:13 UTC in reply to "RE: But but�"
oiaohm Member since:
2009-05-30

When malice and stupidity team up you get an event like this.

It all starts out with Microsoft wanting to be paid for active-sync support from Google.

Microsoft thought Google would not pull plug on it. Right Microsoft you don't have market share in phones worth bugger all so Google has no problem pulling it since 90+ percent of the market support webdav. Malice to get money and Stupid it not be aware you are not sitting in a location where you can bargain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Live_Mail Windows 8 desktop and tablet already has some Webdav support.

So its all round Microsoft incompetence. Just Google is not putting up with it since they don't have to. Yes extending EAS support is being kind from Google.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Part right
by StephenBeDoper on Fri 1st Feb 2013 03:26 UTC in reply to "Part right"
StephenBeDoper Member since:
2005-07-06

When malice and stupidity team up you get an event like this.

It all starts out with Microsoft wanting to be paid for active-sync support from Google.

Microsoft thought Google would not pull plug on it. Right Microsoft you don't have market share in phones worth bugger all so Google has no problem pulling it since 90+ percent of the market support webdav. Malice to get money and Stupid it not be aware you are not sitting in a location where you can bargain.
[...]
So its all round Microsoft incompetence. Just Google is not putting up with it since they don't have to. Yes extending EAS support is being kind from Google.


As something of a disclaimer, I was being glib - if I'm being serious, I'd probably describe Microsoft's approach to the *Dav standards as "strategic inaction" rather than outright malice (or incompetence). Not that that paints Microsoft in any more of a flattering light.

I do agree with your overall assessment, though. Google dropping EAS support felt like they were also trying to send an implicit message that the balance of power had shifted in their favour, at least as far as syncing with GMail/GCal goes. And Microsoft's reaction seems like their attempt to concede, without being perceived as giving in completely - in other words "we'll compromise on mobile (for now), but not where it matters to us/makes us the most money (the desktop/Outlook)".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Live_Mail Windows 8 desktop and tablet already has some Webdav support.


Oh yes, Windows has had a long history of supporting webDav (at least back to Win98)... and they've also had a long history of some of some of the worst webDav support. On Windows, I always end up having to use 3rd-party clients if I want decent performance, or sometimes if I want things to work at all - E.g. want to use Win7 64-bit to connect to a webDav share on an Apache server via HTTPS? You have to edit the registry & add the IP address of the remote server (at least, last I checked)... thanks to a bug that was apparently patched in Vista, but apparently no one bothered to apply the patch to 7.

Reply Score: 2

Tables have turned
by chekr on Thu 31st Jan 2013 02:10 UTC
chekr
Member since:
2005-11-05

It is rather odd to see how the tables have turned. Google is really calling the shots here...

As long as is a move towards open standards this is a good thing I guess.

Reply Score: 6

RE: Tables have turned
by bentoo on Thu 31st Jan 2013 02:24 UTC in reply to "Tables have turned"
bentoo Member since:
2012-09-21

It is rather odd to see how the tables have turned. Google is really calling the shots here...


By caving on each issue? First the Google Maps, now EAS deadline.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Tables have turned
by Moochman on Thu 31st Jan 2013 11:24 UTC in reply to "RE: Tables have turned"
Moochman Member since:
2005-07-06

Are you kidding? Google totally won this. They exchange (no pun intended) keeping EAS online a few months longer for Microsoft building in the Google-championed standards into its OS... Microsoft seems to have been the one to "cave" here.

Edited 2013-01-31 11:26 UTC

Reply Score: 6

RE[3]: Tables have turned
by Nelson on Thu 31st Jan 2013 13:37 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Tables have turned"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

Google backing up from a hard line stance (while getting no additional concessions from Microsoft) is a loss to Microsoft? No.

See this for what it is, two mega corporations being civil. Not exactly something you see every day.

I for one am glad that the DAV suite is coming to Windows Phone. While I believe that EAS is technically superior (and I don't think anyone here that's a serious person disputes this), I also recognize the importance of interoperability.

Reply Score: 4

Google Apps Sync
by bentoo on Thu 31st Jan 2013 02:20 UTC
bentoo
Member since:
2012-09-21

Google already provides an interface for desktop Outlook clients in Google Apps Sync for Microsoft Outlook https://tools.google.com/dlpage/gappssync. RT users are still out of luck but regular Windows 8 aren't. Of course, since Outlook 2013 supports EAS it would be better to just use that since it's a superior (albeit closed and therefore evil ;) ) solution.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Google Apps Sync
by bentoo on Thu 31st Jan 2013 03:47 UTC in reply to "Google Apps Sync "
bentoo Member since:
2012-09-21

...but regular Windows 8 with Outlook aren't necessarily.


Corrected.

Edited 2013-01-31 03:50 UTC

Reply Score: 2

v RE: Google Apps Sync
by SonicMetalMan on Thu 31st Jan 2013 03:52 UTC in reply to "Google Apps Sync "
RE: Google Apps Sync
by JAlexoid on Thu 31st Jan 2013 09:06 UTC in reply to "Google Apps Sync "
JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

OMG! A segment that never had these features will not get those features! THE HORROR!!!

How did people live in the dark ages of long past of Windows7 where Outlook did not sync calendars and contacts with your GMail account?

PS: On desktop (Windows 8) EAS is no superior to IMAP(w/IDLE)+CalDAV+CardDAV.

Reply Score: 3

oh yea
by csynt on Sun 3rd Feb 2013 17:08 UTC
csynt
Member since:
2006-03-19

fuck google and their products...
I moved to Live Domains a long time ago.
Hint: Do you think that google *deletes* all your data when you close your domain hosting with them?
The answer is NO. I know a case of a friend that went back to his old (over two years old) closed google domain, and he discovered old files on the app-sites.

Reply Score: 1