Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 7th Feb 2013 20:57 UTC
Features, Office "The Document Foundation announces LibreOffice 4.0, the free office suite the community has been dreaming of since 2001. LibreOffice 4.0 is the first release that reflects the objectives set by the community at the time of the announcement, in September 2010: a cleaner and leaner code base, an improved set of features, better interoperability, and a more diverse and inclusive ecosystem."
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Couple of questions
by WorknMan on Thu 7th Feb 2013 21:33 UTC
WorknMan
Member since:
2005-11-13

1. Have they gotten rid of the Java dependencies I remember from older versions of OpenOffice? I don't think most people want to install Java unless they absolutely have to, esp with all the vulnerabilities I've seen reported on the tech news blogs. On the other hand, I don't remember which parts of OO required Java; the database app did IRIC.

2. Speaking of OpenOffice, what has become of that project? Is it gonna fizzle out like a bad fart, as Mozilla did whenever Firefox took off?

Edited 2013-02-07 21:34 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE: Couple of questions
by WereCatf on Thu 7th Feb 2013 21:36 UTC in reply to "Couple of questions"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

1. Have they gotten rid of the Java dependencies I remember from older versions of OpenOffice?


Not as far as I know. I sure hope they would, however, as I don't want Java on any of my machines.

EDIT: Their website does state "For certain features of the software - but not most - Java is required. Java is notably required for Base."

Edited 2013-02-07 21:37 UTC

Reply Score: 7

RE[2]: Couple of questions
by moondevil on Fri 8th Feb 2013 06:20 UTC in reply to "RE: Couple of questions"
moondevil Member since:
2005-07-08

How do I remove C and C++ from my machines?

Reply Score: 7

RE[3]: Couple of questions
by memory_leak on Sun 10th Feb 2013 07:33 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Couple of questions"
memory_leak Member since:
2008-12-29

:-)

You have to remove microcode and dependencies on machine code först ;-)

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Couple of questions
by moondevil on Mon 11th Feb 2013 07:33 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Couple of questions"
moondevil Member since:
2005-07-08

How fool of me to think there are other system programming languages with native compilers.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Couple of questions
by Alfman on Thu 7th Feb 2013 22:38 UTC in reply to "Couple of questions"
Alfman Member since:
2011-01-28

WorknMan,

"I don't think most people want to install Java unless they absolutely have to, esp with all the vulnerabilities I've seen reported on the tech news blogs."

I don't think that's really fair.

Most of the security vulnerabilities I've seen are only applicable to contexts in which the virtual machine is intentionally running buggy and untrusted code, such as in applets. All too often java's security is compared to languages which have no containment security whatsoever, like C. In other words, java code needs a privilege escalation to reach the same level of security that a C program starts out with.

In the context of a program we intentionally download and trust implicitly, I'd be surprised if anyone could make a strong case against the security of Java programs compared to C, although I welcome information to the contrary.

Reply Score: 10

RE: Couple of questions
by JAlexoid on Fri 8th Feb 2013 01:05 UTC in reply to "Couple of questions"
JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

You don't have to install Java with OO or LO, unless you want JDBC connectivity. JDBC connectivity is probably the only thing left.

But you've made your hate for Java quite clear some time ago.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Couple of questions
by UglyKidBill on Fri 8th Feb 2013 01:42 UTC in reply to "RE: Couple of questions"
UglyKidBill Member since:
2005-07-27

I DO remember OO crashing boldly (like in 'loosing the entire file and not being able to recover it') when using the feature to e-mail the open document directly from OO if java was not installed...

Reply Score: 2

RE: Couple of questions
by marcp on Fri 8th Feb 2013 12:36 UTC in reply to "Couple of questions"
marcp Member since:
2007-11-23

The sole purpose of Java hook in Open/Office is to assure *compatibility with MS Office crappy file formats*.
So yeah, when it comes to me, it can be erased from the package.

Anyway, LibreOffice is incredibly good and I never treated it as an "alternative" to anything else. Instead, Open/LibreOffice was always my primary choice, others didn't even have a potential to become valuable alternatives.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Couple of questions
by f0dder on Fri 8th Feb 2013 17:04 UTC in reply to "Couple of questions"
f0dder Member since:
2009-08-05

Doesn't seem to be necessary to install just calc+writer.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Couple of questions
by Thomas2005 on Sat 9th Feb 2013 00:50 UTC in reply to "Couple of questions"
Thomas2005 Member since:
2005-11-07

1. Have they gotten rid of the Java dependencies I remember from older versions of OpenOffice? I don't think most people want to install Java unless they absolutely have to, esp with all the vulnerabilities I've seen reported on the tech news blogs. On the other hand, I don't remember which parts of OO required Java; the database app did IRIC.

Getting rid of Java is a goal but I think they wanted to clean up the code before they focused their efforts on eliminating Java. I think we will see Java become an option in the 4.x series.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Couple of questions
by Sodki on Sun 10th Feb 2013 15:08 UTC in reply to "Couple of questions"
Sodki Member since:
2005-11-10

1. Have they gotten rid of the Java dependencies I remember from older versions of OpenOffice?


They are working on it, but they are not finished.

2. Speaking of OpenOffice, what has become of that project?


OpenOffice.org is now an Apache project. People are working on it, but to be fair the really cool stuff is happening on LibreOffice. And LibreOffice can pick up the new stuff that might be in Apache OpenOffice.org, because the license allows it.

Reply Score: 2

My favourite feature
by skeezix on Thu 7th Feb 2013 21:48 UTC
skeezix
Member since:
2006-02-06

My favourite new feature? Support for Firefox Personas. Now your office program can have crappy low-res anime stills in its toolbar, just like your browser! I really hope that was a personal scratched itch, rather than time/effort put in by a core developer!

Actually, my favourite feature is Unity app menu support. That'll make it look less like a sore thumb in the Ubuntu world.

Reply Score: 8

Linux version is very poorly packaged
by rklrkl on Thu 7th Feb 2013 22:26 UTC
rklrkl
Member since:
2005-07-06

Yes, I know, you're going to scream "use your standard repos to install LibreOffice", but I run CentOS 6 at home and work and the chances of it releasing LO 4 any time soon are pretty remote.

Has anyone actually looked at how LibreOffice is "officially" packaged on the libreoffice.org site for Linux? It's terrible! Over 50 RPMs bundled across up to 3 .tar.gz downloads with apparently non-US users having to download the en-US version, delete all the en-US RPMs, delete the Spanish and French dictionary RPMs, then download two other packages (help and language packs) for their own language.

It gets worse - the morons at LibreOffice have different install trees for even minor point releases (e.g. /opt/openoffice3.5 vs. /opt/openoffice3.6) and then even more stupidly hard-code the version number into the package name (e.g. libreoffice3.6, libreoffice4.0 etc) which is 100% wrong and means you have to manually uninstall the old RPMs (rpm -e them) before installing the updated version - arrgh!

Yes, I know the version thing lets you install 2 versions at once, but who other than developers will *ever* do that? What's annoying is that the devs that might need to do that have their *own* Lodev RPMs with the dual-install capability. And switching versions isn't hard - remove old RPMs, install new ones or vice versa. No need for both to be installed at once for a typical user.

Worst...RPM...packaging...ever...

Edited 2013-02-07 22:29 UTC

Reply Score: 6

j-kidd Member since:
2005-07-06

Switch to Gentoo. I have libreoffice-4.0.0.2 installed since Jan 24th ;)

Reply Score: 2

UltraZelda64 Member since:
2006-12-05

Switch to Gentoo. I have libreoffice-4.0.0.2 installed since Jan 24th ;)

Wow, you compiled it that fast? Damn! ;)

Edited 2013-02-08 07:38 UTC

Reply Score: 6

j-kidd Member since:
2005-07-06

Haha, 4.0.0.2 is actually 4.0rc2. Some weird versioning scheme used by libreoffice.

Reply Score: 3

mieses Member since:
2006-02-07

gentoo has binary packages for libreoffice, chrome, firefox and a few others.

Reply Score: 1

zima Member since:
2005-07-06

You're like, missing the entire point why somebody would run CentOS and not Gentoo... :p

Reply Score: 2

tuaris Member since:
2007-08-05

Look at the Windows package, a single MSI with everything you need to install and run the program (minus Java of course). Double click, run, install. Done.

Blame "The Unix Way" mentality for the poor packaging/distribution on Linux.

Reply Score: 1

ricegf Member since:
2007-04-25

So all those setup.exe "wizards" and manual updates on Windows are the wave of the future, and I should blame the ubiquitous Linux repos and their single-click installs and automatic updates instead? Hmmm...

Reply Score: 0

ebasconp Member since:
2006-05-09

should I blame the ubiquitous Linux repos and their single-click installs and automatic updates instead? Hmmm...


Yes, you should!

I actually prefer the Mac way where every app is self contained. Duplicity of "shared-libraries" exists but such duplicity solves the versioning DLL hell.

PC-BSD's PBI installers work in this way too; easier to install, remove, deploy, etc.

Edited 2013-02-08 17:09 UTC

Reply Score: 2

gilboa Member since:
2005-07-06

So, a bad package by a 3'rd party (that also packages the MSI Windows package you use) points a finger at all packages in all Linux distributions.

There's a subtle difference between being a troll and being plain stupid; you're fairly close to crossing the line....

- Gilboa

Reply Score: 2

hussam Member since:
2006-08-17

Look at the Windows package, a single MSI with everything you need to install and run the program (minus Java of course). Double click, run, install. Done.

Blame "The Unix Way" mentality for the poor packaging/distribution on Linux.


That's not correct. Windows packaging is terrible. No tracking of shared dependencies. Poor tracking of installed files. Installing application B can overwrite files installed by Application A.
No easy upgrade paths unless programmed by the packager...
Need I go on?
On linux, a package can be installed with a single command that my grandma can type. easily upgradable packages, tracking of shared dependencies, excellent tracking of installed files. Package managers also warn and/or block two packages from installing the same file in the same location.

The main reason why I dropped windows in 2004 IS the software installation/packaging hell.

Reply Score: 2

tidux Member since:
2011-08-13

That's just because RPM is a piece of shit. Download the deb-packages archive, extract it, run "sudo dpkg -i *.deb" in the directory, and you're done.

Reply Score: 4

tylerdurden Member since:
2009-03-17

Or people could try to actually read the installation instructions, I know that would be too weird and easy. I have a Scientific Linux machine, and I have had zero issues installing and upgrading LibreOffice, and I'm using multiple language packs.

Reply Score: 3

gilboa Member since:
2005-07-06

http://www.osnews.com/thread?552026

(Saves me the need to write things twice)

Reply Score: 2

marcp Member since:
2007-11-23

"Worst...RPM...packaging...ever..."


RPM....is....the...worst....packaging...[system]...ever....

Edited 2013-02-08 12:40 UTC

Reply Score: 4

Cross-compiling
by earksiinni on Thu 7th Feb 2013 23:30 UTC
earksiinni
Member since:
2009-03-27

I wonder if cross-compiling works yet...

Reply Score: 2

I like the project
by deathshadow on Fri 8th Feb 2013 01:11 UTC
deathshadow
Member since:
2005-07-12

WISH they'd ditch the stupid malfing java dependencies; something that should have been on the list from the moment Oracle pissed off every last real developer working on OoO...

BUT... whenever I hear phrasing like "diverse and inclusive ecosystem" I have to fight the overwhelming urge to vomit. Dirty huffing granola feel good nonsense at it's worst.

You'd almost thing the FSF or Goebbels was involved in the market-speak writing on said blog -- Given that within the first three paragraphs I'm seeing bandwagon, transfer, and of course the ever so popular glittering generalities...

But still it's a great release of a great program -- especially since at least on Windows and OSX it doesn't kern text like a sweetly retarded crack addict anymore. (Though thanks to freetype being useless crap, don't expect any progress on linsux in that department).

Reply Score: 3

RE: I like the project
by deathshadow on Fri 8th Feb 2013 10:24 UTC in reply to "I like the project"
deathshadow Member since:
2005-07-12

I stand corrected, it still kerns text at a lot of sizes like a sweetly retarded crack addict -- that it cannot space glyphs on any platform consistently for the same word is just... bad. Is it really so hard to kern a word the same every time and then put any overflow/adjustment in the whitespace?

http://www.cutcodedown.com/images/libreOfficeStillKernsLikeCrap.png

Shamefully bad.

Reply Score: 3

If LibreOffice was an IDE...
by moondevil on Fri 8th Feb 2013 06:22 UTC
moondevil
Member since:
2005-07-08

we would now see comments how great it is to do text processing using UNIX + (vi/emacs) + troff instead of using a clunky GUI application.

Reply Score: 3

RE: If LibreOffice was an IDE...
by wigry on Fri 8th Feb 2013 11:38 UTC in reply to "If LibreOffice was an IDE..."
wigry Member since:
2008-10-09

LaTeX FTW

Reply Score: 2

BiPolar Member since:
2007-07-06

LaTeX FTW


LaTeX is too bloated/verbose... I suggest Lout instead: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lout_%28software%29

Edited 2013-02-08 13:42 UTC

Reply Score: 3

Windows installer removed 3.x
by Invincible Cow on Fri 8th Feb 2013 11:08 UTC
Invincible Cow
Member since:
2006-06-24

When installing LibreOffice 4 in a separate directory, the installer removed LibreOffice 3, without asking, without mentioning. That's just rude.

Reply Score: 2

Comment by marcp
by marcp on Fri 8th Feb 2013 12:43 UTC
marcp
Member since:
2007-11-23

Now, start saying something NICE about new version of this great office suite, you bunch of sad, intellectually lazy and pessimistic bastards ;P

I dare you! find 10 best features of this office suite and show everyone how cool you are.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Comment by marcp
by ebasconp on Fri 8th Feb 2013 17:06 UTC in reply to "Comment by marcp"
ebasconp Member since:
2006-05-09

Yeap, agreed ;)

Does anyone knows if there is some substantial change between the last 3.x version to call this one 4.0??? Feature-wise I don't think so but I can be totally wrong on supposing that.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by marcp
by f0dder on Fri 8th Feb 2013 17:18 UTC in reply to "Comment by marcp"
f0dder Member since:
2009-08-05

1) it's gratis.
2) at least it's somewhat less than 10x slower than Office 2000.
3) it does keming better than I can do by hand.
4) it usually doesn't crash when importing office documents.
5) it only sometimes hangs on copy/paste operations.
6) at least it's document formats are kinda sorta somewhat standardized (pay no attention to the ramblings of Morten Welinder!)
7) it can finally do first-page-special header/footers!

...only three to go, but I couldn't come up with more ;)

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Comment by marcp
by zima on Fri 8th Feb 2013 23:51 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by marcp"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

1) it's gratis.

Not only gratis, it's also Free(tm) ...does that count as eighth?

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment by marcp
by f0dder on Sat 9th Feb 2013 13:12 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by marcp"
f0dder Member since:
2009-08-05

"1) it's gratis.

Not only gratis, it's also Free(tm) ...does that count as eighth?
"
Good point - those are really separate points (while a lot of potential users only care about gratis, I do care about free ;) ).

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Comment by marcp
by zima on Sat 9th Feb 2013 19:01 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by marcp"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

9) it's largely German

...? (some people might care about German engineerink ;p )

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by marcp
by deathshadow on Sat 9th Feb 2013 06:12 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by marcp"
deathshadow Member since:
2005-07-12

Your #2 really drives home a point too - since just what the blue blazes is LibreOffice, OoO and even the latest iterations of Microsoft Office doing on startup that say... Office 97 or 2000 doesn't? Or is even needed?

It's really sad to be rocking a quad core 3ghz hyperthreaded system with 16 gigs of RAM, only to have a 'modern' office suite that does NOTHING I find useful or better end up taking longer to start and be harder to use than StarOffice, Lotus Smartsuite or Microsoft Office was on Windows 98 a decade and a half ago on a crappy K6/2-450 with only 64 megs of RAM... and at least those versions offered improvements over their predecessors -- today the new 'functionality' is usually stupid garbage like dicking with toolbar arrangement and skins.

Yeah... I'm digging out my Office 97 disk... just have to remember that it screws with UAC on Win7.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Comment by marcp
by Alfman on Sat 9th Feb 2013 07:00 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by marcp"
Alfman Member since:
2011-01-28

deathshadow,

"and at least those versions offered improvements over their predecessors -- today the new 'functionality' is usually stupid garbage like dicking with toolbar arrangement and skins."

Yep, often times things change for the sake of change rather than for the sake of improvement.


"Yeah... I'm digging out my Office 97 disk... just have to remember that it screws with UAC on Win7."

I happily used office 97 for a long time, nothing newer offered a compelling reason to upgrade. This was probably true for virtually all MSOffice users, but of course it always came down to compatibility problems forcing everyone to upgrade together.

Edit: As I recall, it was the last version of office which could be backed up and reinstalled by copying it's program files and wasn't dependent on an installer or the registry. Windows software maintenance was better in those days.

Edited 2013-02-09 07:04 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by marcp
by gilboa on Sun 10th Feb 2013 07:01 UTC in reply to "Comment by marcp"
gilboa Member since:
2005-07-06

1. It works the same in both Windows in Linux (so both me and my Windows-using co-workers can use it).
2. Its free (as in speech).
3. It does 100% of all things I need. (Most likely 200%)
4. It works just fine on my 8 year old laptop (running F18/i686).
5. It has a simple and predicable interface (God I hate the ribbon interface).
6. It has zero issues with BIDI + English in the same sentence. (For some absurd reasons Office 2K10 spell checker really dislike complex sentences).
7. In most cases, I can cooperate with Office 2K7/10 users without issues (mostly @work).
8. Unlike OO, I can see measurable improvement between each release.
9. Unlike MSO, I can actually report bugs (whenever I see one) and have some type of dialog with the developer as opposed to shaking my fist against the sky and cursing.
10. Being free, I don't have to pay 10 times the price just to avoid getting a limited "Home" edition.

- Gilboa

Reply Score: 2

Some comments from the web
by lemur2 on Sun 10th Feb 2013 02:30 UTC
lemur2
Member since:
2007-02-17

LibreOffice releases new, faster version
http://www.itwire.com/business-it-news/open-source/58655-libreoffic...

A little more than two years after it forked from OpenOffice.org, the free office suite LibreOffice has come out with a sleek and faster version 4.0. The release said the resulting codebase differed from the original, as several million lines of code had been added and removed, by adding new features, fixing bugs and regressions, adopting state of the art C++ constructs, replacing tools, getting rid of deprecated methods and obsoleted libraries, and translating 25,000 lines of comments from German to English.

LibreOffice Gets A Brand New Home
http://www.muktware.com/5198/libreoffice-gets-brand-new-home

LibreOffice team is on 'fire'. After releasing 4.0 which is a 'completely' different office suite than OpenOffice. The team has revamped the LibreOffice.org, bidding goodbye to the 'boring' and aged design. The new design is jazzy and reflects how aggressive the 'new' LibreOffice community is, shedding the old brand image it inherited from the doomed OpenOffice.

LibreOffice is experiencing a huge adoption across organizations and enterprises. There were reports that Microsoft is planning to port its cash cow MS Office to Linux - if the reports are true it clearly shows that LO is making some serious inroads into Microsoft's core segment and scared Microsoft is now bringing its product to the platform where everyone else is going.


Microsoft goes soft on Office, to debut Linux version by 2014
http://www.unixmen.com/microsoft-goes-soft-on-office-to-debut-linux...

Looks like Linux has finally challenged the dominance of decades of proprietary office document software.
As the market share of Android devices continues to make an impact Microsoft has already announced its Android port for Office Suite, their proprietary office documents management software.

Analysts firmly believe that the explosive growth of Linux on desktop, primarily driven by commercial gaming software, has driven the software giant to finally look towards open source compatibility.
This hugely interesting news grew viral at the Brussels, Belgium developers’ European meeting for open source (FOSDEM) in the last few days.
Typical open source ingenuity already offers technical solutions to run Office software on Linux through Wine, which is very popular in this segment, or the CodeWeavers’ CrossOver. However, these are ports and not a full native client. Now, Microsoft itself has initiated an internal porting for Linux.

However, another major development on the Linux front has been the increase in the growth of governments implementing Linux. Most organizations, in several countries have found great cost advantages in using LibreOffice and OpenOffice over Windows Word.
As the volumes in number of users in the segment of organizations and governments for office software products grows, Microsoft is left without an option but to venture into the realms, it had vouched a long time ago not to enter.


Edited 2013-02-10 02:37 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE: Some comments from the web
by zima on Sun 10th Feb 2013 13:59 UTC in reply to "Some comments from the web"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

translating 25,000 lines of comments from German to English

;)
(so it seems is less German now... ;p http://www.osnews.com/permalink?552002 )

Edited 2013-02-10 14:00 UTC

Reply Score: 2