Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sun 31st Mar 2013 19:58 UTC
In the News "Not only has China's Central TV been running regular follow ups to its March 15 expose on Apple's iPhone repair policies, but on Thursday People's Daily - the Communist Party's official propaganda organ - attacked the company for the fourth day in a row, devoting half a page to negative articles." This isn't rocket science. The west treats Chinese technology companies like crap, so they treat western companies like crap. How exactly does this surprise anyone? And why is it okay for our governments to engage in political games to smear foreign companies, but we throw a hissy fit when a foreign nation engages in the same political games to smear western companies? It sucks for Apple to be the target right now, but had this occurred a decade ago, it would have been Microsoft.
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Eh ...
by WorknMan on Sun 31st Mar 2013 20:26 UTC
WorknMan
Member since:
2005-11-13

And why is it okay for our governments to engage in political games to smear foreign companies, but we throw a hissy fit when a foreign nation engages in the same political games to smear western companies?

Who's throwing a hissy fit? Plenty of folks in the west bash Apple on a regular basis, so it's about time the Chinese join the fun ;)

Reply Score: 8

RE: Eh ...
by kaiwai on Mon 1st Apr 2013 14:30 UTC in reply to "Eh ..."
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

And why is it okay for our governments to engage in political games to smear foreign companies, but we throw a hissy fit when a foreign nation engages in the same political games to smear western companies?

Who's throwing a hissy fit? Plenty of folks in the west bash Apple on a regular basis, so it's about time the Chinese join the fun ;)


I also think that the article under-appreciates just how sceptical the local Chinese audience is of what their government outlets say - having been fed a steady diet of bullshit for 50+ years it takes a lot for most Chinese people I know to trust their government. End of the day China is just playing the economic nationalism card - they need to boost local consumption as to move away from an export dependent economy but god forbid the idea of the masses choosing an Apple device over ZTE or Huawei or a GE or Maytag washing machine over purchasing a local brand like Haier.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Eh ...
by darknexus on Mon 1st Apr 2013 14:56 UTC in reply to "RE: Eh ..."
darknexus Member since:
2008-07-15

I also think that the article under-appreciates just how skeptical the local Chinese audience is of what their government outlets say - having been fed a steady diet of bullshit for 50+ years it takes a lot for most Chinese people I know to trust their government.

I've run across two opposite groups when talking to people concerning government propaganda (and that includes the western governments as well). One, the group that you and I obviously belong to, is the one you describe. We take everything the government outlets say with a boatload of salt and trust nothing until we can verify at least the basic facts. The second group and, at least where I am in the US by far the more common one, are people who lap up the bullshit and spew it back as fact. I don't know how the demographic is in China as I've not been there, but I can tell you that just because some know they've been fed a diet of bullshit doesn't mean others don't eat their fill. It doesn't help that, in more repressive governments, even those who puke the bs back up don't dare talk about the fact that they've done so. You'd best look like you're feasting on what the government says or you won't ever have to worry about hunger again.

Reply Score: 5

RE: Eh ...
by JAlexoid on Tue 2nd Apr 2013 14:49 UTC in reply to "Eh ..."
JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

Who's throwing a hissy fit? Plenty of folks in the west bash Apple on a regular basis, so it's about time the Chinese join the fun ;)


A lot of people are throwing a hissy fit. Specifically those that are on the forefront defending Amercian companies from the evil foreigners... like EU.

Reply Score: 3

Chinese companies
by silviucc on Sun 31st Mar 2013 20:49 UTC
silviucc
Member since:
2009-12-05

Actually I've found the Chinese to be a lot more flexible than some western companies. They can make quality stuff provided that you are willing to pay for it.They may lack technical expertise in some areas but are catching up.

There is no reason to cringe about dealing with them.

Reply Score: 5

v RE: Chinese companies
by windowshasyou on Sun 31st Mar 2013 21:58 UTC in reply to "Chinese companies"
RE[2]: Chinese companies
by silviucc on Sun 31st Mar 2013 22:11 UTC in reply to "RE: Chinese companies"
silviucc Member since:
2009-12-05

Yet you provide none.

Reply Score: 4

v RE[3]: Chinese companies
by windowshasyou on Mon 1st Apr 2013 03:01 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Chinese companies"
RE[4]: Chinese companies
by silviucc on Mon 1st Apr 2013 07:36 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Chinese companies"
silviucc Member since:
2009-12-05

What is considered "common knowledge" is often a collage of truths and lies. First-hand experience is what counts and mine was good, really good.

Reply Score: 4

v RE[5]: Chinese companies
by windowshasyou on Mon 1st Apr 2013 18:05 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Chinese companies"
RE[6]: Chinese companies
by silviucc on Mon 1st Apr 2013 18:18 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Chinese companies"
silviucc Member since:
2009-12-05

As long as what you need is still made in your country. In my case I had to buy from abroad the only thing was choosing a supplier.

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Chinese companies
by unclefester on Tue 2nd Apr 2013 09:34 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Chinese companies"
unclefester Member since:
2007-01-13

Obviously you don't own any electronic devices because the all have Chinese components. In fact every single PC, laptop, tablet and phone on the market is made in China.

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: Chinese companies
by twitterfire on Tue 2nd Apr 2013 13:12 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Chinese companies"
twitterfire Member since:
2008-09-11

What about South Korea and Taiwan?

Reply Score: 2

v RE[4]: Chinese companies
by windowshasyou on Mon 1st Apr 2013 13:56 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Chinese companies"
RE[4]: Chinese companies
by JAlexoid on Tue 2nd Apr 2013 14:53 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Chinese companies"
JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

Most know the legacy of 'Made In China' stamped stuff.


Didn't "Made in Japan" have that issue some time ago? Made in China means nothing more than Made in USA. Crap can be produced anywhere and China can(and does) produce high quality products.(Every single iDevice is produced there)

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Chinese companies
by Lazarus on Mon 1st Apr 2013 07:20 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Chinese companies"
Lazarus Member since:
2005-08-10

A non-tech company example (just because it is still fresh in my mind):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_pet_food_recalls

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: Chinese companies
by silviucc on Mon 1st Apr 2013 07:43 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Chinese companies"
silviucc Member since:
2009-12-05

So, are the Chinese the only ones that fuck-up? People may buy food for their live-stock that still has traces of DDT from south-america. Why would they buy from there? Because it's cheaper.

Just recently a French company was caught using horse meat in products that were supposed to contain beef and blamed that on Romanian suppliers. Turned out that it was not the Romanians after all.

Western propaganda about "those nasty commies" is a wonderful thing.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Chinese companies
by Lazarus on Mon 1st Apr 2013 07:56 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Chinese companies"
Lazarus Member since:
2005-08-10

So, are the Chinese the only ones that fuck-up?


Where have I implied such a thing? You seemed to be unhappy that the other poster didn't provide a single example, so I provided one.

Western propaganda about "those nasty commies" is a wonderful thing.


*Blink*

Reply Score: 4

No morals by anyone here
by moiecoute on Sun 31st Mar 2013 23:19 UTC
moiecoute
Member since:
2010-12-28

Thom this would have less to do with the Chinese government caring about its people. It is a trend from Asia, through Africa and South America. Don't believe me travel to these places and talk to people and find out for yourself.

The western countries bring in the capital, machinery and know how. These governments then put pressure at any chance they can to get more taxes or special concessions.

My take on it anyway.

Reply Score: 2

RE: No morals by anyone here
by Soulbender on Mon 1st Apr 2013 01:16 UTC in reply to "No morals by anyone here"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

The western countries bring in the capital, machinery and know how. These governments then put pressure at any chance they can to get more taxes or special concessions.


I like how you make it sound like these western countries are some kind of knights in shining armour.
Quite often though, it's more about exploiting the cheap local labour and draining the local natural resources without giving much, if anything at all, back.
The fact is that a lot of folks in these regions are fed up with the hilariously overpaid westerners with cushion jobs that acts like they're Gods gift to mankind (or at least mankind in those parts), living a life in luxury that they could never have managed to achieve in their own home countries.
We've had this coming for a long fscking time and rightly so.

Reply Score: 8

RE[2]: No morals by anyone here
by tylerdurden on Mon 1st Apr 2013 02:13 UTC in reply to "RE: No morals by anyone here"
tylerdurden Member since:
2009-03-17

Not that I disagree with the sentiment in your post. But you should be careful with assuming that you know what a Chinese citizen you have never met/interacted with directly, for example, cares about or thinks like.

Reply Score: 1

Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

I've lived in Asia for more than 10 years and I wasn't necessarily talking about people in China.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: No morals by anyone here
by kristoph on Mon 1st Apr 2013 02:29 UTC in reply to "RE: No morals by anyone here"
kristoph Member since:
2006-01-01

I think that you have probably not spent a great deal of time in China.

It is the native Chinese who tend to act like 'gods', routinely denigrate underlings, and favor incredibly ostentatious displays of wealth.

Most foreigners in China act pretty much like they act in any other city, which is to say they don't denigrate people and don't go out of their way to display their wealth.

( Note that I am by no means suggesting all wealthy, or even most, Chinese are like this. However, there is certainly more wealthy Chinese then there is wealthy foreigners behaving 'badly' in China. )

Reply Score: 2

Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

think that you have probably not spent a great deal of time in China.


You do know that Asia is bigger then China, right? The OP was talking about the region (as well as Africa and South America) and not China.

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: No morals by anyone here
by kristoph on Mon 1st Apr 2013 04:06 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: No morals by anyone here"
kristoph Member since:
2006-01-01

I think what I was trying to say is that this argument does not really apply to China, which this article is about.

It may Apply to other countries and so future hypothetical situation but that has nothing much to do with anything.

Reply Score: 1

Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

I think what I was trying to say is that this argument does not really apply to China, which this article is about.


Lets see what Thom said:

And why is it okay for our governments to engage in political games to smear foreign companies, but we throw a hissy fit when a foreign nation engages in the same political games to smear western companies?


China is obviously not the only "foreign" country.

Reply Score: 4

Curious about...
by novad on Mon 1st Apr 2013 10:57 UTC
novad
Member since:
2010-06-10

I’m certainly not the one who defends Apple and its politic.

But on this one I would be curious to know what’s behind this campaign.

I wouldn’t be surprised that China tries to obtain something from Apple. Maybe access to iCloud data, censorship over App store, compliance with Chinese norms or whatever? Maybe they want an Apple datacenter in China (Also interesting for controlling data)?

Well... They defend their interests and Apple as one of the biggest single company in this market is a logical target. Knowing how Apple "fights" against other companies I can only hardly feel sad for them.

Reply Score: 1

Comment by Tractor
by Tractor on Mon 1st Apr 2013 17:29 UTC
Tractor
Member since:
2006-08-18

A full-fledged attack directed by a powerful government against a foreign company interest is nothing to smear at.

And no, i have never seen anything equivalent in my country and the West in general which comes even close to it.

Sometimes, there's an attempt to blur the boundaries between highly different scales :
you can find some general crap about "China's products are bad", you can find people and private companies starting a smear campaign against a Chinese competitor (Huawei being a typical target),

but you can't find a government-controlled highly accurate smear campaign using state-controlled media at full scale.

If you compare the two and pretend they are equivalent, then you lost your ability to compare. Take into consideration the scale.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Comment by Tractor
by unclefester on Tue 2nd Apr 2013 09:38 UTC in reply to "Comment by Tractor"
unclefester Member since:
2007-01-13


And no, i have never seen anything equivalent in my country and the West in general which comes even close to it.


The US government deliberately tried to destroy the Japanese PC industry in the 80s and 90s via sanctions and diplomatic threats.

Edited 2013-04-02 09:39 UTC

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Comment by Tractor
by Thom_Holwerda on Tue 2nd Apr 2013 16:44 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by Tractor"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

The European car makers have lobbied for very specific changes to emission laws which make European cars look better than Korean and Japanese cars - even though they are not.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by Tractor
by zima on Wed 3rd Apr 2013 16:47 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by Tractor"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

The US government deliberately tried to destroy the Japanese PC industry in the 80s and 90s via sanctions and diplomatic threats.

And largely succeeded, it seems: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRON_project#History
(relevant external links work via archive.org, also interesting is http://tronweb.super-nova.co.jp/btron.html )

Reply Score: 2

Crapple...
by twitterfire on Tue 2nd Apr 2013 12:29 UTC
twitterfire
Member since:
2008-09-11

Basically this great company has a different treatment for chinese and US customers. I think the chinese are right.

Apple CEO apologized: http://www.dailytech.com/Apple+CEO+Tim+Cook+Apologizes+Again++This+...

Coming from them and knowing their recent history, I don't think those apologies matter to much. You do sh1t and when you're confronted with your sh1t, you apologise. After that you continue to do sh1t again...

Reply Score: 2