Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sun 12th May 2013 22:30 UTC
Windows "Microsoft's communications chief has a tough job these days, and with Windows 8 is under attack from all sides he's bravely called for a return to the center and a less partisan conversation about the new OS. There's just one problem: The periodicals heโ€™s called out for engaging in 'sensationalism and hyperbole' are in fact right about Microsoft's strategy. And ignoring that is the real problem."
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Feedback
by WorknMan on Sun 12th May 2013 23:49 UTC
WorknMan
Member since:
2005-11-13

A tech company listening to feedback from geeks and the tech press is a fine art, where you really have to be wise enough to discern when you should listen to your detractors and when you should ignore them. Cases in point:

- The first time I saw a mention of the Nintendo Wii's new controller after they revealed it, the headline read 'Nintendo commits suicide.' It was the laughing stock of the gaming community, and everyone predicted the Wii would come in a distant third. They went on to sell about 100 million of those things, and you could hardly find one in stores for the first 2+ years after its release.

- When the iPad was first announced, geeks everywhere turned their noses up at it, saying 'Oh, this is just a big iPod Touch. It'll never sell ...'

So just because the feedback is initially negative doesn't mean you don't have a hit on your hands. Of course, in MS's case, they probably should've listened ;) But the point is, you never know ...

Edited 2013-05-12 23:51 UTC

Reply Score: 7

RE: Feedback
by ze_jerkface on Mon 13th May 2013 01:09 UTC in reply to "Feedback"
ze_jerkface Member since:
2012-06-22

During the Windows 8 development period there were numerous comments from shop owners and admins that tried Win8 on users only to have overwhelmingly negative feedback.

Most of those comments were deleted.

Some negative comments were left to give some semblance of balance but in reality the blog comments were censored to serve the image of Sinofsky and Microsoft.

Those of us who followed the blog closely knew what was going on. Sinofsky was given full reign and that included trying to control public opinion. The most technically critical questions were deleted while comments like "I likey Windows 8" were left.

But I now see that our criticism was unwarranted. Windows 8 and Surface are a huge success. Windows developers were wrong and Sinofsky was right. The other day I had to wade through a Surface break-dance party. Some guy did a 10' backflip over me while handing a Surface to his buddy. True story.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Feedback
by Nelson on Mon 13th May 2013 03:04 UTC in reply to "Feedback"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29


So just because the feedback is initially negative doesn't mean you don't have a hit on your hands. Of course, in MS's case, they probably should've listened ;) But the point is, you never know ...


I think this is a good point. Feedback is a balancing act and no side will get exactly what they want. The Start Menu isn't going to come back. What might have a chance of coming back is the Start Menu's functions. What problems did it solve? How did it solve them? Why is the Start Screen worse? How could it be better?

These are likely the questions Microsoft asked itself. Windows Blue from the leaked builds appears to confirm this. There is *more* Metro, not less. Its more refined and works better from a Mouse+Keyboard, but it IS Metro.

My point I guess is that it depends on i you buy into Microsoft's core strategy. If you do, you'll find that Windows 8.1 advances that goal and makes it easier to use from a Desktop and within the enterprise.

However if you disagree with Microsoft's strategy, nothing short of a 360 in direction will appease you. Microsoft doesn't seem to be doing that.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Feedback
by WorknMan on Mon 13th May 2013 03:17 UTC in reply to "RE: Feedback"
WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

My point I guess is that it depends on i you buy into Microsoft's core strategy. If you do, you'll find that Windows 8.1 advances that goal and makes it easier to use from a Desktop and within the enterprise.


I'm taking a 'wait and see' approach. I did not care for Metro at all on Win8, but I don't want to see a 360 happen either. For now, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. If it's still ass in 5 years or so, we'll know they screwed up.

The traditional Win32 desktop is a clusterfuck of framework on top of framework. Even if they don't succeed, I applaud Microsoft for at least making an attempt to move on.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Feedback
by WereCatf on Mon 13th May 2013 05:46 UTC in reply to "RE: Feedback"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

However if you disagree with Microsoft's strategy, nothing short of a 360 in direction will appease you.


If they did a 360 they'd be right where they are. You probably mean 180.

Reply Score: 7

RE[3]: Feedback
by Nelson on Mon 13th May 2013 11:31 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Feedback"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

Yes, that.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Feedback
by Fergy on Mon 13th May 2013 15:07 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Feedback"
Fergy Member since:
2006-04-10

"However if you disagree with Microsoft's strategy, nothing short of a 360 in direction will appease you.


If they did a 360 they'd be right where they are. You probably mean 180.
"
You made me think of the last action hero: http://youtu.be/AiCF1QdyxhM?t=17s

Love that movie

Reply Score: 2

Bought a new Win8 laptop last week...
by gagol on Mon 13th May 2013 00:12 UTC
gagol
Member since:
2012-05-16

As far as I can tell, Windows 8 stands for "8 minutes before you want to erase the disk and install anything else". I booted into it for the sake of trying it, did not like it a bit and plugged in my favorite usb disk loaded with a linux installer. I still run XP64 in a virtual machine for Photoshop and such.

Reply Score: 1

WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

I still run XP64 in a virtual machine for Photoshop and such.


That's the thing about Windows - inferior OS, superior apps. And the FOSS community really doesn't do themselves any favors by releasing many of Linux's best apps on Windows. Just ensures that Windows users have the best of both worlds, giving them little incentive to switch.

As for Windows 8, we've talked about this at length in another thread, but I got used to it faster than Windows 7. When I upgraded from XP to 7, I found that MS had re-arranged the entire control panel and most of the settings dialogs, forcing me to relearn where everything was. Compared to that, adjusting to the new start screen was a breeze ;)

Now I like Windows 8, esp things like task bars on multiple monitors, native ISO mounting, a decent task/startup manager, the ability to pause while copying, and a handful of other things I used to have to install 3rd party utils for. If you ignore metro and stay in the desktop, it really is superior to Win7, and I would never go back, unless forced to.

Edited 2013-05-13 00:20 UTC

Reply Score: 2

gagol Member since:
2012-05-16

For the record, I have been using Linux full time for over 6 years now ;-) I may come to a rough edge now and then but I really like being able to configure my system exactly how I like it. Others may enjoy Windows 8/7/Whatever and this is fine. I just dont!

Reply Score: 2

GraphiteCube Member since:
2009-04-01

... forcing me to relearn where everything was...


May I know why you prefer memorizing "where" is the function instead of "search" for the function?

Reply Score: 2

WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

May I know why you prefer memorizing "where" is the function instead of "search" for the function?


I would ask start menu devotees the same question ;)

Seriously though, some things can be found by searching, and some can't. For example, if you want to change the drive letters for your various disks, try searching for 'change drive letter'.

Also other things changed, such as you used to be able to change boot up order via the Advanced settings in My Computer. Now you need a BCD util. It's not bad, but just takes some time to get used to ...

Reply Score: 2

umccullough Member since:
2006-01-26

And the FOSS community really doesn't do themselves any favors by releasing many of Linux's best apps on Windows. Just ensures that Windows users have the best of both worlds, giving them little incentive to switch.


Hmm... I disagree.

Once I had all my family members using Firefox and Chromium, LibreOffice, Inkscape, and a multitude of other cross-platform applications instead of Windows-only options - I was able to swap out Windows entirely for Linux, and the learning curve was minimal.

At one point, my kids were using a Linux Mint laptop I had lying around in my office and didn't really care - because all the same app icons were present that they were used to on the windows machines.

Cross platform apps are a stepping stone to "freedom".

Reply Score: 6

kompak Member since:
2011-06-14

That's the thing about Windows - inferior OS, superior apps. And the FOSS community really doesn't do themselves any favors by releasing many of Linux's best apps on Windows. Just ensures that Windows users have the best of both worlds, giving them little incentive to switch.


If the original developers don't realease a Windows build some one else will and if you prohibit that it's no longer FOSS.

Reply Score: 3

sgtarky Member since:
2006-01-02

use gimp?

Reply Score: 1

gagol Member since:
2012-05-16

Gimp is really not there yet. I use it professionally... and illustrator, and after effect, and... you get the idea.

Reply Score: 3

Deviate_X Member since:
2005-07-11

As far as I can tell, Windows 8 stands for "8 minutes before you want to erase the disk and install anything else". I booted into it for the sake of trying it, did not like it a bit and plugged in my favorite usb disk loaded with a linux installer. I still run XP64 in a virtual machine for Photoshop and such.


Haha, Windows 8 has some usability issues, but running it in a VM multiplies that * 2

Reply Score: 1

gagol Member since:
2012-05-16

Learn to read: "I still run XP64 in a virtual machine".

Reply Score: 1

Comment by Deviate_X
by Deviate_X on Mon 13th May 2013 05:57 UTC
Deviate_X
Member since:
2005-07-11

Well the truth is sales of windows isn't actually down, they are actually the same as windows 7, apples to apples, and windows 7 was huge hit apparently...

However negativity is up, because change == consternation. Ms will make a few minor changes, start-button-bitmap and the all will be good apparently, more touch gizmos will be released and happiness will resume.... ๐Ÿ˜Œ

(Posted from my Surface Pro with Android x86 courtesy of VirtualBox)

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by Deviate_X
by benali72 on Mon 13th May 2013 19:11 UTC in reply to "Comment by Deviate_X"
benali72 Member since:
2008-05-03

Windows 8 sales are down in the desktop market, as compared to Vista, according to stats published at NBC News...

http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/windows-8-remains-behind-vista-de...

Reply Score: 2

Blast the critics while fixing the product
by benali72 on Mon 13th May 2013 19:05 UTC
benali72
Member since:
2008-05-03

Microsoft is engaging in their usual tactic ... blasting the critics as wrong, while desperately upgrading Win 8 to address the very criticisms they dispute. Nothing new here, they've operated this way for 20 years.

Reply Score: 4