Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 14th May 2013 17:38 UTC, submitted by lucas_maximus
Windows "Today at the JP Morgan Technology, Media & Telecom Conference in Boston, Tami Reller shared with the audience that the update previously referred to as 'Windows Blue' will be called Windows 8.1 and will be a free update to Windows 8 for consumers through the Windows Store." They really didn't have much of a choice, but good news anyway.
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Service Pack
by lucas_maximus on Tue 14th May 2013 17:51 UTC
lucas_maximus
Member since:
2009-08-18

It is pretty much a service pack.

Reply Score: 7

Comment by Nelson
by Nelson on Tue 14th May 2013 17:52 UTC
Nelson
Member since:
2005-11-29

Thank god that they're not charging for this update, because the ensuing OSNews article would've truly had fireworks.

Lets put aside Windows 8 hate for a second. The fact that Windows, Windows is finally moving to a yearly release schedule is an impressive logistical feat (for Microsoft, yes others have much more rapid cycles). Some people here hate Sinofsky, but you gotta give the man credit, he turned the WinDiv around after Vista. I didn't envy his position in 2006.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Comment by Nelson
by lucas_maximus on Tue 14th May 2013 18:06 UTC in reply to "Comment by Nelson"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

Thank god that they're not charging for this update, because the ensuing OSNews article would've truly had fireworks.


It would be funny if they just asked for a £1 / $1 and see what some on here would say.

Reply Score: 4

I read this, and all I could hear was...
by bryanv on Tue 14th May 2013 18:10 UTC
bryanv
Member since:
2005-08-26

That beep beep beep sound trucks make when they back up.

Reply Score: 7

lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

Probably parking up behind a major retail outlet before unloading more PCs with Windows installed on them.

Edited 2013-05-14 18:21 UTC

Reply Score: 3

lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

Usually it doesn't change, we all know that.

Edited 2013-05-14 19:36 UTC

Reply Score: 3

Drumhellar Member since:
2005-07-12

It doesn't hinder, either.

Edited 2013-05-14 20:12 UTC

Reply Score: 3

Kochise Member since:
2006-03-03

It makes things a little more restrictive. You have to use a UEFI compatible bootloader, you cannot develop your own anymore (osdev haunting)

Frankly, I got more viral infection via web (xss) than got mbr corruption. So this whole "secure" boot stuff is basically just a lock-down.

Kochise

Reply Score: 2

lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

I would rather my OS be secure from the ground up, than having a strong partition around the defences.

Reply Score: 3

Drumhellar Member since:
2005-07-12

It makes things a little more restrictive. You have to use a UEFI compatible bootloader, you cannot develop your own anymore (osdev haunting)


Of course you can make your own boot loader. Any PC with the Windows 8 logo will allow you to disable secure boot or install your own keys. This is a requirement for the Windows 8 logo program.

This cannot be overstated: The Windows 8 logo program requires computers to be capable of both disabling secure boot and installing custom keys.

Frankly, I got more viral infection via web (xss) than got mbr corruption. So this whole "secure" boot stuff is basically just a lock-down.

Kochise


A couple of weeks ago I cleaned a friend's computer of malware. Among the various types of malware it was infected with was a rootkit. This was on a 64-bit Windows 7 machine. "I don't get those" is completely meaningless.

Reply Score: 5

Kochise Member since:
2006-03-03

I don't know if having a locked down computer is an any brighter security measure to enforce protection. The user's knowledge should help more by performing less dangerous actions. See how Linux users breaks less easily their os. Sure there is indeed pretty decent file protection from the beginning, but the hardware access through pipes could breaks the machine perhaps even more easily than on Windows. Yet they experience less troubles.

I'm not wearing rose tainted glasses, if you were worried about.

Kochise

Edited 2013-05-14 21:34 UTC

Reply Score: 0

Missed opportunity...
by 01Michael10 on Tue 14th May 2013 18:25 UTC
01Michael10
Member since:
2013-05-07

Thank God Microsoft is not going to take advantage of the poor souls who have Windows 8. They could have advertized something like this in the Windows store...

Want your start button back? --> $5

Need better compatibility with older Windows software? --> $10

You use a PC with a mouse so want the touch-based Modern UI removed? --> $25

Edited 2013-05-14 18:30 UTC

Reply Score: 9

v RE: Missed opportunity...
by lucas_maximus on Tue 14th May 2013 18:26 UTC in reply to "Missed opportunity..."
RE[2]: Missed opportunity...
by 01Michael10 on Tue 14th May 2013 18:33 UTC in reply to "RE: Missed opportunity..."
01Michael10 Member since:
2013-05-07

Sorry, my comment was obviously meant to be humorous...

Edited 2013-05-14 18:35 UTC

Reply Score: 1

v RE[3]: Missed opportunity...
by lucas_maximus on Tue 14th May 2013 18:37 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Missed opportunity..."
RE[3]: Missed opportunity...
by marcp on Tue 14th May 2013 19:10 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Missed opportunity..."
marcp Member since:
2007-11-23

Some people won't get it anyway ;) They have that judgmental, black and white, 0/1 attitude: "troll or not-troll".

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Missed opportunity...
by UltraZelda64 on Tue 14th May 2013 18:37 UTC in reply to "RE: Missed opportunity..."
UltraZelda64 Member since:
2006-12-05

Hey, I thought it was pretty funny actually...

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Missed opportunity...
by lucas_maximus on Tue 14th May 2013 18:44 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Missed opportunity..."
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

Really. TBH I would have found it bloody hilarious if they charged another €30 euros again for the upgrade just to see everyone foaming at their mouths. When MacOSX has a similarly short release cycle these days and charges a similar amount but makes the expensive hardware obsolete that is still working perfectly fine and capable of running the OS.

Just saying.

Edited 2013-05-14 18:44 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Missed opportunity...
by Kochise on Tue 14th May 2013 20:11 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Missed opportunity..."
Kochise Member since:
2006-03-03

Just not the same hype and targeted audience. Btw Apple's update have more of an upgrade, with added functionalities, not "just" a compilation of security fixes/patches/UImod to restore usable behaviors after badly anticipated users' anger.

Keep in mind that if Windows 7 machines were still sold, they would surely outnumber Windows 8's.

Kochise

Reply Score: 0

RE[5]: Missed opportunity...
by lucas_maximus on Tue 14th May 2013 20:15 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Missed opportunity..."
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

Give me a shout when the oldest Windows 8.1 setup is not from 2003 and it probably runs alright.

Reply Score: 3

RE[6]: Missed opportunity...
by Kochise on Tue 14th May 2013 20:18 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Missed opportunity..."
Kochise Member since:
2006-03-03

???

Kochise

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: Missed opportunity...
by lucas_maximus on Tue 14th May 2013 20:29 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Missed opportunity..."
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

There is a load of features added to Windows Service packs ... XP vs XP SP3 is actually massive in added new features ... they just don't advertise them like Apple and they work on the original machines that XP was ready for.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Missed opportunity...
by grat on Tue 14th May 2013 18:41 UTC in reply to "Missed opportunity..."
grat Member since:
2006-02-02

Ha! I can see the headline now... "Microsoft Windows has decided to go to a Free2Play model".

Anyone who plays mmorpg's will see the humor... ;)

Reply Score: 2

moondevil
Member since:
2005-07-08

...to buy Visual Studio v.Next.

Because Visual Studio 2013 update 3 was the last update with a tiny list of fixes

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/bharry/archive/2013/05/08/some-thoughts-on-...

Reply Score: 2

lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

Visual Studio 2010 support is kind of forgotten completely.

I am still Visual Studio (don't laugh) 2003 on some projects and it just something tbh that is a bit rubbish. But I can do fine with .NET 4.0 / VS2010 at the moment and I haven't wanted to take advantage of version 4.5 yet.

Edited 2013-05-14 18:39 UTC

Reply Score: 2

moondevil Member since:
2005-07-08

Currently we are also using VS 2010 for our Windows projects, and for the look of it, most likely not buying VS2012 when it is already announced many of the fixes are planned for v.Next instead.

Reply Score: 2

lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

I don't see any features that are compelling. Plus the silly UI which I will have to fiddle with. I can't be arsed.

Reply Score: 2

Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

I'd love for them to move to a yearly release cycle with Visual Studio with an option to purchase a subscription to the steady stream of updates.

I really, really like the Office 365 business model, it works well for software that costs hundreds of dollars.

And there's always Visual Studio Express if you can stand not having R#

Reply Score: 2

moondevil Member since:
2005-07-08

R#?!

Edit: Ah you mean Reshaper. We don't get it for our projects anyway. ;)

It is hard to convince customers that they also need to pay extra for functionality that Java IDEs offer out of the box, when it is not project related.

Edited 2013-05-15 06:48 UTC

Reply Score: 2

No choice?
by Brunis on Tue 14th May 2013 18:50 UTC
Brunis
Member since:
2005-11-01

what the hell are you talking about? they had the nerve to ask for money for windows 7, so it's not like this practice is in the distant past! ;)

Reply Score: 3

RE: No choice?
by fretinator on Tue 14th May 2013 19:46 UTC in reply to "No choice?"
fretinator Member since:
2005-07-06

Windows 7 was worth it.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: No choice?
by Kochise on Tue 14th May 2013 20:58 UTC in reply to "RE: No choice?"
Kochise Member since:
2006-03-03

And XP even more : 10 years of support and rather stable/efficient OS. Bought two copies for my OSless computers. Worth every pennies.

Kochise

Reply Score: 2

Comment by marcp
by marcp on Tue 14th May 2013 19:08 UTC
marcp
Member since:
2007-11-23

It won't be free, but gratis. That's a huge difference ;)

The car that you borrow for free isn't free, also. It's gratis as in price. It's not yours, you can't do anything you want with it.

Yes, I hate car analogies, too.

Reply Score: 9

RE: Comment by marcp
by lucas_maximus on Tue 14th May 2013 19:41 UTC in reply to "Comment by marcp"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

It is free.

Stop making wanky distinctions to make you sound clever. If you have Windows 8 you will get this for nothing.

Reply Score: 0

RE[2]: Comment by marcp
by marcp on Wed 15th May 2013 10:28 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by marcp"
marcp Member since:
2007-11-23

Clever people have no problem with understanding the difference between "free" and "gratis". Thus, they will not oppose and object the obvious truth just because they feel miserable today.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Comment by marcp
by lucas_maximus on Wed 15th May 2013 22:40 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by marcp"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

Playing little semantics games in IRL would make you sound like a bit of a dick ... it makes you look like one here as well.

Reply Score: 3

Service Pack 1?
by leech on Tue 14th May 2013 19:27 UTC
leech
Member since:
2006-01-10

Isn't this basically just service pack 1? I mean all they're doing is fixing the broken things...

Reply Score: 3

RE: Service Pack 1?
by lucas_maximus on Tue 14th May 2013 19:42 UTC in reply to "Service Pack 1?"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

There isn't much broken. I would like you to list all the broken things ... because I haven't noticed them and I been running Windows 8 from launch.

Reply Score: 3

v Proof of failure
by benali72 on Tue 14th May 2013 19:58 UTC
RE: Proof of failure
by Kochise on Tue 14th May 2013 20:15 UTC in reply to "Proof of failure"
Kochise Member since:
2006-03-03

Windows XP SP1, SP2 and SP3 were pretty free as well. Windows 8.1 is mostly SP1, so why would they charge for correction of mistakes they made ?

Kochise

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Proof of failure
by lucas_maximus on Tue 14th May 2013 20:35 UTC in reply to "RE: Proof of failure"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

Corrections of mistakes?

Do you understand how software is made? how software is tested? No software is bug free, no software is perfect ... except maybe Hello World samples.

This really bloody irritates me because this is just a lack of basic understanding for software engineering principles that weren't cutting edge in the 80s.

Show me the requirements that you think have a defect in. Show me the code that doesn't reflect the use case.

Cheap comments are cheap comments. Nothing else.

Edited 2013-05-14 20:37 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Proof of failure
by Kochise on Tue 14th May 2013 20:47 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Proof of failure"
Kochise Member since:
2006-03-03

Windows is not made by a shareware releaser, but a massive corporation. Now they decided to go on a yearly release basis, good for them if they cope the pace. I bet that at their level of expertise, especially since they are following their own standart, they could ensure a minimum of code quality and functionnality. At least I hope them all the goods in that matter.

Kochise

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Proof of failure
by lucas_maximus on Tue 14th May 2013 20:54 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Proof of failure"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

Windows is not made by a shareware releaser, but a massive corporation.


What has this got to do with anything .. exactly nothing.

Now they decided to go on a yearly release basis, good for them if they cope the pace. I bet that at their level of expertise, especially since they are following their own standard, they could ensure a minimum of code quality and functionality. At least I hope them all the goods in that matter.


They can cope with the pace or they wouldn't be doing it. Because they have a proper testing framework, proper test cases and proper tools to do them with.

You guys pretend Microsoft is a start-up that doesn't know what it is doing. Windows releases these days are painless compared to the 2000/XP/Vista days ... and you guys make snide remarks about their competence.

Reply Score: 3

RE[5]: Proof of failure
by Kochise on Tue 14th May 2013 21:06 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Proof of failure"
Kochise Member since:
2006-03-03

You was the one that insinuated that code can be full of bugs in the first place, dude. That's something unwanted from such a large corporation that demand a high price for its ptoduct. Would you accrpt the same level of defects from a car, which are rather complex too nowadays (regarding to electronic equipments from various suppliers yet working all together rather flawlessly).

I can accept bugs in the code, but as you request a secure os from ground up in another post, thanks to secure boot, this whole "security" can fall like a card construct if the os is flawed from within. And so you told me that any code is inherently bug ridden. Let me cook some pop-corn before continuing this thread...

Kochise

Reply Score: 1

RE[6]: Proof of failure
by lucas_maximus on Tue 14th May 2013 21:12 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Proof of failure"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

Usual down-votes when it comes to basic software engineering.

Edited 2013-05-14 21:25 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[7]: Proof of failure
by Kochise on Tue 14th May 2013 21:24 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Proof of failure"
Kochise Member since:
2006-03-03

Since you keep repeating at will how clueless I am, could you please provide me with a link to your personal blog where you explain every step to build a commercial grade operating system and the various implications, best practices ? Since you sounds so much knowledgable on the subject, let's share your insightful visions.

Kochise

Reply Score: 1

RE[7]: Proof of failure
by Kochise on Tue 14th May 2013 21:57 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Proof of failure"
Kochise Member since:
2006-03-03

Usual down-votes when it comes to basic software engineering.

Not basic software engineering, just a personal attack you edited. If that's so obvious, why not taking some minutes to explain, document, link sources instead to just point how people are so stupid not to understand such basic knowledge. Without backing your claims with valid and solid arguments, but empty and bold statements, you're the one bad looking here. Be a gentleman, keep your manners.

Kochise

Reply Score: 1

Comment by Kroc
by Kroc on Tue 14th May 2013 21:32 UTC
Kroc
Member since:
2005-11-10

Through the Windows Store? Does that mean that it requires a Microsoft Account?

Reply Score: 1

RE: Comment by Kroc
by lucas_maximus on Tue 14th May 2013 21:45 UTC in reply to "Comment by Kroc"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

Probably yes. I am sure you will shit your panties about it, when you don't actually have to pay for it, or buy it.

Edited 2013-05-14 21:49 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by Kroc
by Nelson on Tue 14th May 2013 22:42 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by Kroc"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

I think the Store will be the main UI people use to initiate the update, but I doubt the update itself will require a Microsoft Account.

It will probably just use Windows Update behind the scenes.

Reply Score: 3

v Misleading title
by tomz on Tue 14th May 2013 21:40 UTC
v v8.1, what's new?
by tomchr on Tue 14th May 2013 22:40 UTC
RE: v8.1, what's new?
by Spiron on Wed 15th May 2013 01:25 UTC in reply to "v8.1, what's new?"
Spiron Member since:
2011-03-08

This isn't so much putting lipstick on a pig as it is giving the pig a complete facial restructure. several key things have changed while still maintaining the metro interface

Reply Score: 2

Hope they've solved conveyance issues
by tomchr on Wed 15th May 2013 11:46 UTC
tomchr
Member since:
2009-02-01

I really hope that Microsoft have done something to solve the conveyance issues.

See the youtube example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTYet-qf1jo

around 11:20 and forward

Reply Score: 1

chekr Member since:
2005-11-05

Control Panel can be found by bringing up charms, clicking/tapping Settings then Control Panel - not rocket science

Its more of an attitude than aptitude problem. People are resistant to change, every major UI overhaul I have ever seen has had people whinge and moan as if the end of the world had come. I rolled mice out across an entire bank in the nineties and you'd think we were killing puppies the response we got.

In the end people begrudgingly learn then reap the benefits.

Reply Score: 3

tomchr Member since:
2009-02-01

Its more of an attitude than aptitude problem. People are resistant to change...


It is not a question of being resistant to change, but finding the whole usability approach ugly and lacking any intelligible justification.

It like being forced to drive a rainbow colored Fiat Mulitpla. No matter how it drives, it is still an ugly car.

...or going to work in a Ronald Mcdonald suit. Sure, you are insulated and not naked, but you still look like a clown.

Microsoft seriously needs to get over its Playmobil design fetish. Unfortunately, I do not see this happening anytime soon.

Edited 2013-05-15 14:21 UTC

Reply Score: 2

tylerdurden Member since:
2009-03-17

Even the name "charm" is completely not intuitive of the functionality it refers to.

Metro is an utter usability clusterf*ck on the desktop.

Reply Score: 2