Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 20th May 2013 11:29 UTC
PDAs, Cellphones, Wireless The day has finally come! Jolla has finally announced the launch device for its Sailfish operating system - and by god this is a looker. It's decidedly different from other phones out there, but it has good specifications and carries a relatively reasonably price tag - EUR 399, and it's up for pre-order today, shipping in the fourth quarter of this year.
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Nice!
by daedalus on Mon 20th May 2013 11:58 UTC
daedalus
Member since:
2011-01-14

Oooh, looks lovely! I don't think I'm fed up with my N9 enough to think about replacing it yet, but when that day comes, these guys will be getting my cash!

Reply Score: 2

Finally
by j-kidd on Mon 20th May 2013 12:03 UTC
j-kidd
Member since:
2005-07-06

Just placed a pre-order using Mailboxde.com address. I don't think there will be enough demand from my country (one of the few countries where N9 was sent to die), but you can't stop me from buying!

Reply Score: 4

User-replaceable battery
by Lennie on Mon 20th May 2013 12:25 UTC
Lennie
Member since:
2007-09-22

I don't know how everything else will turn out, but at least they got one thing right: User-replaceable battery.

Reply Score: 7

Nice boat! lol
by AnXa on Mon 20th May 2013 12:33 UTC
AnXa
Member since:
2008-02-10

Jolla is on its way~♪

Edited 2013-05-20 12:34 UTC

Reply Score: 1

Re:
by kurkosdr on Mon 20th May 2013 13:14 UTC
kurkosdr
Member since:
2011-04-11

Really hope this thing ends up in third or fourth place (after blackberry), so the OS Microsoft touts as the defacto third choice tumbles to fifth place.

PS: Yes, WP has already tumbled to fourth place after blackberry, despite a head start of WP over the new blackberry, massive marketing and nokia brand name in some countries.

Browser: Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.3.4; el-gr; LG-P990 Build/GRJ23) AppleWebKit/533.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/533.1 MMS/LG-Android-MMS-V1.0/1.2

Reply Score: 2

RE: Re:
by Nelson on Mon 20th May 2013 13:59 UTC in reply to "Re:"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

Really hope this thing ends up in third or fourth place (after blackberry), so the OS Microsoft touts as the defacto third choice tumbles to fifth place.

PS: Yes, WP has already tumbled to fourth place after blackberry, despite a head start of WP over the new blackberry, massive marketing and nokia brand name in some countries.Browser: Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.3.4; el-gr; LG-P990 Build/GRJ23) AppleWebKit/533.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/533.1 MMS/LG-Android-MMS-V1.0/1.2


Windows Phone is in third place ahead of BlackBerry. BlackBerry is also trending way, way down as opposed to Windows Phone which has posted triple digit growth YoY and has faced steady shipment increases QoQ for many quarters now.

Granted, BlackBerry's BB10 effort is hardly underway so they will need time to grow and dig themselves out of their hole.

The majority of the shipments that make up the sales of BB are BB7 handsets, and accordingly they will see a dip in marketshare as those users flock to other platforms at the end of their respective upgrade cycles.

So this is why BB being in 4th or MSFT being in 3rd is meaningless, BB definitely needs more time to see their strategy bear out.

The same is true of Jolla, take note that they will launch in limited regions with a single device. They don't have much brand recognition, though they do have a compelling product and device on their hands. Its obviously not going to be a high volume play though.

So manage your expectations accordingly. It takes time to build a brand and set up the infrastructure needed to support an ecosytem. The Jolla guys are really smart ex-Nokians who know how to get this stuff done, so I have more faith than I otherwise would have in what amounts to a start up company.

Just don't expect millions and millions on their first try.

Windows Phone is for all intents and purposes on its way to mainstream commercial acceptance, as much as some people here absolutely can't stand that.

Nokia is expected to go from 5 to 8 million phones this quarter, and that's just the lead up to Holiday 2013 in which the next wave of Lumia devices will launch.

Nokia finally has all the gears turning and they can consistently pump out devices at varying price ranges to start increasing their volume. You've already seen this in their large QoQ increases since Q3 2012.

What will be key in my opinion is them posting a steady 20% QoQ gain to maintain the momentum. I want Nokia to go from 8 - 10 in Q3 then 10-12 and possibly more in Q4.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Re:
by enx23 on Wed 22nd May 2013 10:01 UTC in reply to "RE: Re:"
enx23 Member since:
2008-12-17

Windows Phone is in third place ahead of BlackBerry.


Here are the numbers from:
http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/
and indeed Windows Phone is on third place with 3.0% after Android (74.6%) and iOS (17.6%).

BIGGEST SMARTPHONE OPERATING SYSTEMS BY UNIT SALES IN Q1 2013

Rank . OS Platform . . . . Units . . . . Market share . Was Q4 2012 . . Manufacturers in Top 10
1 (1) . . Android . . . . . . . 159.0 M . . 74.6 % . . . . . ( 68.5 %) . . . . . Samsung, Huawei, ZTE, Lenovo, Sony, LG, Yulong/Coolpad
2 (2) . . iOS . . . . . . . . . . 37.4 M . . 17.6 % . . . . . ( 22.2 %) . . . . . Apple
3 (4) . . Windows Phone . . 6.3 M . . . 3.0 % . . . . . ( 2.7 %) . . . . . . Samsung, Nokia
4 (3) . . Blackberry . . . . . . 6.0 M . . . 2.8 % . . . . . ( 3.2 %) . . . . . . RIM
5 (5) . . bada . . . . . . . . . . 1.8 M . . . 0.8 % . . . . . ( 1.4 %) . . . . . . Samsung
6 (6) . . Symbian . . . . . . . 0.5 M . . . 0.2 % . . . . . ( 1.0 %) . . . . . . Nokia
others . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2.0 M . . . 0.9 % . . . . . ( 1.0 %)
TOTAL . . . . . . . . . . . . 213.0 M
Source: TomiAhonen Consulting Analysis 17 May 2013, based on manufacturer and industry data

You've already seen this in their large QoQ increases since Q3 2012.


Few quarters QoQ increase means nothing when one considers that:
1) Nokia was number one two years ago, and
2) on Bill Gates' time Windows Mobile was number two OS on mobile phones => today Nokia is number 9 and Windows Phone platform is number three, and
3) the increase from Q4 2012 to Q1 2013 is 0.3% for Windows Phones!!!

BIGGEST SMARTPHONE MANUFACTURERS BY UNIT SALES IN Q1 2013

Rank . . Manufacturer . Units . . . Market Share . Was Q4 2012 . . OS systems supported (coming)[ending]
1 (1) . . Samsung . . . . 69.0 M . . 32.4% . . . . . . . ( 29.4% ) . . . . . . Android, bada, Windows (Tizen)
2 (2) . . Apple . . . . . . 37.4 M . . 17.6% . . . . . . . ( 22.0% ) . . . . . . iOS
3 (3) . . Huawei . . . . . 10.5 M . . . 4.9% . . . . . . . ( 5.5% ) . . . . . . Android (Tizen)
4 (7) . . LG . . . . . . . . 10.3 M . . . 4.8% . . . . . . . ( 4.0% ) . . . . . . Android
5 (5) . . Lenovo . . . . . . 8.9 M . . . 4.2% . . . . . . . ( 4.3% ) . . . . . . Android (Tizen)
6 (4) . . ZTE . . . . . . . . 8.6 M . . . 4.0% . . . . . . . ( 5.3% ) . . . . . . Android, Windows (Firefox)
7 (6) . . Sony . . . . . . . . 8.1 M . . . 3.8% . . . . . . . ( 4.0% ) . . . . . . Android
8 (11) . Coolpad/Yulong . 7.1 M . . . 3.3% . . . . . . . ( 2.8% ) . . . . . . Android
9 (10) . Nokia . . . . . . . . 6.1 M . . . 2.9% . . . . . . . ( 3.0% ) . . . . . . Windows, [Symbian], [MeeGo]
10 (9) . Blackberry . . . . 6.0 M . . . 2.8% . . . . . . . ( 3.2% ) . . . . . . Blackberry
Others . . . . . . . . . . . 48.1 M
TOTAL . . . . . . . . . . 213.0 M
Source: TomiAhonen Consulting Analysis 17 May 2013, based on manufacturer and industry data

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Re:
by Nelson on Wed 22nd May 2013 12:37 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Re:"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29


1) Nokia was number one two years ago, and


Yes, that's true. BlackBerry has also seen a spectacular fall. If your point is to tell me that Nokia is doing badly overall, then that's a point I'm well aware of.

I don't think noting that their Windows Phone strategy is starting to take off has anything to do with their past performance with past devices and a past OS.

If you can enlighten me as to where the relation between the two is, because it's obvious that Nokia wasn't going to stay #1 forever, especially given the projected trajectories that Tomi himself acknowledges.


2) on Bill Gates' time Windows Mobile was number two OS on mobile phones => today Nokia is number 9 and Windows Phone platform is number three, and


Right, and it is a strategic fumble that they did not take advantage of their market position when they had the time to do so. I similarly don't see what that has to do with anything I've said here.


3) the increase from Q4 2012 to Q1 2013 is 0.3% for Windows Phones!!!


I think your math is wrong.

Q3 2012:
3.6 million units shipped, 140% YoY change

Q4 2012:
6 million units shipped, a 67% increase QoQ, 150% YoY change

Q1 2013:
7 million units shipped, a 16% increase QoQ, 134% YoY change.

They've posted a QoQ volume increase every quarter except one since the Lumia's came out.

They managed a 16% QoQ increase coming off of the Holiday Season, which is especially impressive.

This is using actual IDC numbers, not dubious Tomi numbers.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Re:
by enx23 on Wed 22nd May 2013 20:07 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Re:"
enx23 Member since:
2008-12-17

Nokia is struggling nowdays to stay on top 10 when two years ago was number one. This shows how badly the Nokia's strategy regarding Windows Phone platform is working.

Regarding Tomi Ahonen numbers please notice that those are phones SOLD and IDC numbers are phones shipped, which are not the same!

Reply Score: 1

Regular Linux SW compatibility?
by Temcat on Mon 20th May 2013 13:59 UTC
Temcat
Member since:
2005-10-18

Will it be possible to run regular Linux software (console and/or X11-based) on it?

Reply Score: 2

WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

Will it be possible to run regular Linux software (console and/or X11-based) on it?


Atleast regular console-based software will run just fine. I'm not 100% certain, but from what I've understood X11-software should also run on it.

Reply Score: 4

Temcat Member since:
2005-10-18

Thank you, having at least the familiar console apps would be handy.

Reply Score: 2

Ford Prefect Member since:
2006-01-16

1. Mer (Sailfish OS core) is glibc based. That makes it compatible to console GNU/linux applications.

2. Sailfish OS is switching to Wayland and Qt5 in the near future. I assume they will use Wayland already when the phone launches.

Some more information:
http://mer-project.blogspot.de/2013/04/wayland-utilizing-android-gp...

Reply Score: 7

Temcat Member since:
2005-10-18

Thank you, lots of info there! However, I could not infer from the linked article a definitive answer as to whether or not X11 apps (using old Qt, GTK+, other toolkits) will be supported in addition to Wayland.

Reply Score: 2

WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

Thank you, lots of info there! However, I could not infer from the linked article a definitive answer as to whether or not X11 apps (using old Qt, GTK+, other toolkits) will be supported in addition to Wayland.


If Ford Prefect is correct and Sailfish uses Wayland then no, X11 apps won't work as-is. Recent versions of Qt and GTK+ should support Wayland, but the apps also must be compatible with it to work.

EDIT: Actually I stand corrected. I just found http://wayland.freedesktop.org/xserver.html which seems to mean that you can make regular X-apps run on Wayland, too, if you just install xwayland. So basically, yes, you can run X-apps on it.

Edited 2013-05-20 15:15 UTC

Reply Score: 4

Temcat Member since:
2005-10-18

So it's going to be through a compatibility layer. I'm afraid it'll make things slower.

Reply Score: 2

Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

If you are running non phone apps on a phone, you should expect a less than perfect experience, mainly due to the screen size and the keyboard differences.

Reply Score: 2

Temcat Member since:
2005-10-18

That's for sure. But the X compatibility layer may be an additional performance killer, though I know nothing about the design of this layer and may be wrong.

Reply Score: 2

Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

No, you're right, You're essentially running everything through Xorg and wayland.

http://wayland.freedesktop.org/xserver.html

Reply Score: 2

pgeorgi Member since:
2010-02-18

But the X compatibility layer may be an additional performance killer

Probably not. As long as the X11 protocol implementation runs close to those buffers, there's no problem.

The main difference of Xwayland to "native" solutions is where it ends up pushing the drawing commands to - in case of Xorg's COMPOSE extension, it send all image data to pixel buffers that are then laid out in a separate step, which is exactly how it'd work with Xwayland.
There's just a different protocol between them to coordinate this, and it's probably more suited than X11, too.

What you don't get is "non composed" graphics, which is only a problem if you try to build a scalable (to many windows) display server in 256KB of RAM or less...

Reply Score: 4

tidux Member since:
2011-08-13

Uh, no. It's just a tiny X server running in the background like what OS X has to handle X11 applications, which wasn't really a big deal even on a G4 PowerPC system.

Reply Score: 2

Luke McCarthy Member since:
2005-07-06

X11 apps can already run under Wayland with a rootless X server.

Reply Score: 3

Lava_Croft Member since:
2006-12-24

Easy Debian is a good showcase of what's possible with Maemo/Meego/Sailfish and regular desktop GNU/Linux software. http://wiki.maemo.org/Easy_Debian

Reply Score: 1

Qt!
by piotr.dobrogost on Mon 20th May 2013 15:18 UTC
piotr.dobrogost
Member since:
2011-10-04

I went straight for 40 € pre-order ;)

Reply Score: 2

As someone that doesn't...
by Kivada on Mon 20th May 2013 20:12 UTC
Kivada
Member since:
2010-07-07

...follow ARM that closely, how open is the driver situation should you want to play around and load another OS onto this phone?

Reply Score: 2

RE: As someone that doesn't...
by WereCatf on Mon 20th May 2013 20:53 UTC in reply to "As someone that doesn't..."
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

...follow ARM that closely, how open is the driver situation should you want to play around and load another OS onto this phone?


We don't know enough about the specs yet, can't say.

Reply Score: 2

RE: As someone that doesn't...
by nej_simon on Tue 21st May 2013 14:23 UTC in reply to "As someone that doesn't..."
nej_simon Member since:
2011-02-11

Not very good in general. That's why libhybris was developed.

Reply Score: 2

Decidedly different?
by phoenix on Mon 20th May 2013 20:58 UTC
phoenix
Member since:
2005-07-11

Exactly how is this phone "decidedly different"? It's the same slab of a touchscreen phone as every other slab of a touchscreen phone out there.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Decidedly different?
by WereCatf on Mon 20th May 2013 21:47 UTC in reply to "Decidedly different?"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

Exactly how is this phone "decidedly different"? It's the same slab of a touchscreen phone as every other slab of a touchscreen phone out there.


Well, the software makes the most difference here, but there's also another catch: you can apparently augment the phone with various kinds of active covers, like e.g. you can change the cover to one that has a more powerful flash than the default one, or to one that includes a hardware keyboard or gamepad and so on. I suppose you could just as well implement a cover that includes more storage space. That's a neat trick and one that will surely find its way to many a geek's heart.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Decidedly different?
by AnXa on Mon 20th May 2013 22:12 UTC in reply to "Decidedly different?"
AnXa Member since:
2008-02-10

Biggest few combinations of things in my opinion...

No buttons required to control the UI. SailfishOS is gesture based like the Meego/Harmattan. So far the only phone that has done anything similar is the only Meego/Harmattan in Nokia N9. All the iPhones, Androids, etc. rely on a button or many buttons to control the UI. Sailfish like Meego before it, makes it really seamingless experience.

True multitasking and native C++/Qt applications. If you start a video, swipe it to the background, it continues to playback the content and updates the task icon in task switcher.

The Jolla device's "The Other Half" is kind of a neat exchangable colour cover with some intelligence to it. A cover that can feature colour art of your favourite band in its exterior.

And when you stick it to your device, changes the the theme of your device with the colours and art of the band's latest album, and automatically gives free access to said album from some online music store for streaming or download purposes, or starts downloading the album to your device immediately.

"The Other Half" can be a kind of physical object which is a container for a digital consert ticket for the consert of the artist, or it could contain accesses to digital or physical places (say a secure website url).

Apparently some of the things planned for the future "Other Halfs" include things like additional hardware modifications and such features. Like making the device support additional PA features, larger and stronger flash, or other additional camera stuff.

...At least this is what guys of Jolla explained in their event about "The Other Half" as I understood it.

Edited 2013-05-20 22:14 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Decidedly different?
by TSDgeos on Tue 21st May 2013 14:52 UTC in reply to "RE: Decidedly different?"
TSDgeos Member since:
2007-05-26

/me looks at his BlackBerry Z10 and checks it still has no buttons, phew!

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Decidedly different?
by powderblue on Sat 25th May 2013 19:26 UTC in reply to "RE: Decidedly different?"
powderblue Member since:
2007-07-22

I pretty sure WebOS phones were buttonless and BB10 is also.

Reply Score: 1

PC vs Phone
by stanbr on Tue 21st May 2013 18:30 UTC
stanbr
Member since:
2009-05-22

Come on people, if you want a freaking PC, buy a PC, not a phone.
I don't care if it runs X, console apps, come on, it's a phone...

Reply Score: 1

RE: PC vs Phone
by shmerl on Tue 21st May 2013 18:43 UTC in reply to "PC vs Phone"
shmerl Member since:
2010-06-08

It's not a phone. It's a handset computer which can make phone calls. That's why I don't like the term "smartphone". It's a dumb term, which limits the idea of general purpose mobile handset computer. However communication is still one of the most stressed functions there, but modern communication is not limited to telephony and commonly includes e-mail, instant messaging, VoIP and etc. So a much better term that describes such computer is communicator.

Edited 2013-05-21 18:49 UTC

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: PC vs Phone
by lucas_maximus on Tue 21st May 2013 21:22 UTC in reply to "RE: PC vs Phone"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

I think the point is that you missed is that these applications while they might run are sub-optimal for the platform they are running on.

I agree it is a mobile computer that can make calls, but the interface is that of a phone at the moment and it should be designed accordingly.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: PC vs Phone
by shmerl on Tue 21st May 2013 21:31 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: PC vs Phone"
shmerl Member since:
2010-06-08

I didn't really miss that point. I meant that while it has a use case of making phone calls, next moment it can be used for something else (for example attach to it a keyboard and a monitor and use for whatever). The fact that it's small should not limit your imagination. Only its performance should.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: PC vs Phone
by lucas_maximus on Tue 21st May 2013 21:41 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: PC vs Phone"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

Yes you did.

When I talk about interface I think about the current interface between the user and the phone.

At the moment there is a limitation there, and it is limited compared to what I can do on my PC. While the hardware underneath is quite capable, the interface isn't.

Edited 2013-05-21 21:41 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[5]: PC vs Phone
by shmerl on Tue 21st May 2013 22:06 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: PC vs Phone"
shmerl Member since:
2010-06-08

Flexible interfaces that adapt to use case (mobile/desktop oriented) on the very same device are being developed. Not sure how exactly Jolla is addressing this, but Plasma Active have it as one of the system design priorities. Jolla has lot's of stuff on their plate - first they need to become profitable. They can't achieve everything at once. So this is a great first step.

Anyway, even being limited to the mobile interface, you can do much more with the device than just phone calls. That was primarily the point addressed to the first poster above.

Edited 2013-05-21 22:09 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[6]: PC vs Phone
by lucas_maximus on Tue 21st May 2013 22:17 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: PC vs Phone"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

So in summary you don't know.

Actually it wasn't what you addressed ignoring the triteness of the remarks of the OP. The fact is that the interface between the UI and the person is a limiting factor and is clunky at best versus a mouse and keyboard with a user that has the same amount of savvy-ness.

Edited 2013-05-21 22:19 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[7]: PC vs Phone
by shmerl on Tue 21st May 2013 22:22 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: PC vs Phone"
shmerl Member since:
2010-06-08

Sure, mobile interface is more limiting. But it's not that limiting, as the OP implied.

You can also argue with OP statement from another perspective. We should care that it runs X/Wayland etc. for the sake of coherence with the desktop Linux. Synergy of technologies means sharing the effort. Common corporate world doesn't care or even rejects this, but Linux and free software world promotes this. Jolla positions itself as open source and community friendly company, so it makes sense for them to care.

Edited 2013-05-21 22:25 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE: PC vs Phone
by WereCatf on Tue 21st May 2013 19:09 UTC in reply to "PC vs Phone"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

If everyone always thought like you do we wouldn't even have invented the wheel. The thing is, some of us like to try out new ideas and to extend the capabilities of the things we feel passionate about, and well, mobile and/or embedded, small-scale devices happen to be one of those things I am quite passionate about.

Feel free to live inside your precious little box, but do not expect everyone else to follow your lead.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: PC vs Phone
by lucas_maximus on Tue 21st May 2013 21:26 UTC in reply to "RE: PC vs Phone"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

http://www.osnews.com/permalink?562246

I have a Galaxy SIII.

We are limited by the interface, which is what this person was saying quite crudely.

Applications should be designed around the system they are being developed for and the content they are providing.

Reply Score: 3

Jolla + Fairphone
by rain on Wed 22nd May 2013 10:32 UTC
rain
Member since:
2005-07-09

These guys should seriously join up with Fairphone. It would make a great couple!

http://www.fairphone.com/

Reply Score: 2