Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 22nd May 2013 22:23 UTC
Games "Sony gave the PS4 50% more raw shader performance, plain and simple (768 SPs @ 800MHz vs. 1152 SPs & 800MHz). Unlike last generation, you don't need to be some sort of Jedi to extract the PS4's potential here. The Xbox One and PS4 architectures are quite similar, Sony just has more hardware under the hood. We’ll have to wait and see how this hardware delta gets exposed in games over time, but the gap is definitely there. The funny thing about game consoles is that it’s usually the lowest common denominator that determines the bulk of the experience across all platforms. On the plus side, the Xbox One should enjoy better power/thermal characteristics compared to the PlayStation 4. Even compared to the Xbox 360 we should see improvement in many use cases thanks to modern power management techniques." AnandTech does its usual in-depth thing.
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Well..
by reduz on Wed 22nd May 2013 22:26 UTC
reduz
Member since:
2006-02-25

XB1 includes Kinect 2, so they probably needed to reduce the price of the cpu/gpu..?

Reply Score: 4

also
by arb1 on Wed 22nd May 2013 22:57 UTC
arb1
Member since:
2011-08-19

"Sony gave the PS4 50% more raw shader performance, plain and simple (768 SPs @ 800MHz vs. 1152 SPs & 800MHz).

Its gonna be a bit more then 50%, since PS4 uses GDDR5 ram which should give a pretty healthy boost on top of that.

Reply Score: 3

RE: also
by tylerdurden on Wed 22nd May 2013 23:23 UTC in reply to "also"
tylerdurden Member since:
2009-03-17

... or it could be worse than 50% depending on latency issues as well. The Xbox has embedded RAM on chip, for example.

At a basic level, engineering is the art of trade off.

Reply Score: 4

RE: also
by thesunnyk on Thu 23rd May 2013 01:15 UTC in reply to "also"
thesunnyk Member since:
2010-05-21

RTFA, Anand goes into a fair bit of detail regarding memory bandwidth, which is more complicated than you assert because of the 32MB embedded SRAM (with lower latency and comparable bandwidth to the GDDR5).

I love Anand. With the fluff that was the presentation itself, to the regurgitation even from The Verge, it takes real investigation to get to what the Xbox One will look like. Lots of forum trawling and intelligent piecemeal guesswork presented into a well formed easy to read article.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: also
by JAlexoid on Thu 23rd May 2013 16:17 UTC in reply to "RE: also"
JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

And we will just have to see how that works out.

Reply Score: 2

The Xbox One is counting on the Cloud
by TM99 on Thu 23rd May 2013 06:41 UTC
TM99
Member since:
2012-08-26

for extra hardware processing power.

This article/interview goes into greater details about it.

http://venturebeat.com/2013/05/21/xbox-one-microsofts-super-geeks-r...

Frankly, it sounds like a dumb terminal/mainframe kind of thing that will eventually require an always-on connection to accomplish, will suck some serious bandwidth, and allows Microsoft the future possibilities of altering the hardware without a lot of notice.

So expect games to quickly take advantage of this 'feature' and wam bam thank you mam, we are into the always-on internet access is required for this game title scenario which was predicted (and denied).

Reply Score: 2

kragil Member since:
2006-01-04

Useless marketing feature.

[X] Cloud

is what they wanted on their feature checklist.

That feature is only software that talks to internet servers you can implement on a Sega Dreamcast.

Just more meaninless bla from MS, just read:
http://metro.co.uk/2013/05/22/chris-lewis-xbox-one-interview-we-wil...

you will never read a longer interview with zero information in it.

Reply Score: 2

TM99 Member since:
2012-08-26

Jesus, no shit!

This guy could neither confirm nor deny anything.

You won't need always on internet....yet you will need internet to activate a game. I didn't need that with the original Xbox nor the 360 so why do I need it now?

You can play a game offline....except you have to be online to activate it.

You can play used games...but you have to pay to activate them on your console.

Oh, goodie, I can log into a friends Xbox and all of my shit will be there via the Cloud. So is the One just a fucking dumb terminal then? Wow, moving forward by moving back. I played Rogue on the dumb terminal in college in the early 1980's.

Sigh. lol

Reply Score: 1

Performance
by p13. on Thu 23rd May 2013 06:51 UTC
p13.
Member since:
2005-07-10

The PS4 clearly has the edge when it comes to raw GPU performance. The question is if it matters at all. I would guess that games are now developed to accommodate for the lowest common denominator. If a game dev releases something, they would want it to run well on both of these consoles. Given that the hardware is so similar, i have the feeling that this is going to be even more prevalent now. Much less effort/money is going to flow to porting.

I think the real difference here will be their operating systems and hypervisor strategy.

You are now entering the personal opinion area, you are awarded these 2 cents...

Me, personally, i don't think i'll bother with any of this. The way microsoft is running this makes me kind of smile and shake my head. One time use discs? Pay a fee when reinstalling a game? Always on internet?
No thanks, MS.

I'm european, and you can bet that all the tv and entertainment crap won't even work outside of the US anyway. It never does ... so there's no value in it for me there.
MS better make sure they fill that gap with something useful ... like ... oh, i dno, say ... allowing this to run a full os?

Edited 2013-05-23 06:59 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE: Performance
by WereCatf on Thu 23rd May 2013 07:48 UTC in reply to "Performance"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

The PS4 clearly has the edge when it comes to raw GPU performance. The question is if it matters at all. I would guess that games are now developed to accommodate for the lowest common denominator.


That's quite likely true. Game devs can crank shader quality up if the game is running on the PS4, but on the whole it seems unlikely they will do much else. The PS4 exclusives are a whole 'nother matter, though, like e.g. God of War - games are notorious for pushing the device to its limits just for the sake of eye-candy.

The way microsoft is running this makes me kind of smile and shake my head. One time use discs? Pay a fee when reinstalling a game? Always on internet?
No thanks, MS.


There is no fee when reinstalling the game, you've been reading some really false claims. The fee comes with used games. Also, there is no always-on requirement just as long as the box can phone home once a day.

I'm european, and you can bet that all the tv and entertainment crap won't even work outside of the US anyway. It never does ... so there's no value in it for me there.


Aye. As I commented yesterday on Gamespot it's unlikely any of the Xbox's most-flaunted features will work here at all and even the few things that do work will have some serious shortcomings, like e.g. all the sports-related stuff will be all about the U.S. -- no Finnish teams, no news about developments in the Finnish sports scenes, no interest from the Finnish Average Jane & Joe -- and the Kinect requires you to speak English to the system.

The PS4 is much more focused on doing gaming first-and-foremost and making that activity the easiest and most capable one and I feel that's why it will find a market much easier in areas where Xbox's new features don't work or work poorly. Of course, at this point things may still change as the PS4 ain't yet been officially revealed.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Performance
by TM99 on Thu 23rd May 2013 08:04 UTC in reply to "RE: Performance"
TM99 Member since:
2012-08-26

There is no fee when reinstalling the game, you've been reading some really false claims. The fee comes with used games. Also, there is no always-on requirement just as long as the box can phone home once a day.


Having to phone home once a day might as well be an always-on requirement. Power out for three days in a snow storm? Sorry, you can't play your XBox One. Cable provider is doing upgrades or maintenance in the neighborhood for two days? Sorry, you can't play your Xbox One until it 'phones home'.

That is bullshit. How can anyone whose has been a console gamer ever accept that as even remotely viable and ok?

I don't even have my Xbox 360 on the network. Why? I don't need yet another device for Netflix service. I don't need any of cheap ass Live gamelets. I don't play multiplayer online. I prefer offline co-op (though finding titles to support it is a bitch these days!). I don't need a narcissistic ego stroke by showing off my trophies and achievements to perfect strangers. I don't want to pay for Xbox Live service.

If I get the One, then all of this changes. No thanks.

Reply Score: 5

RE[3]: Performance
by zima on Sat 25th May 2013 13:15 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Performance"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Having to phone home once a day might as well be an always-on requirement. Power out for three days in a snow storm? Sorry, you can't play your XBox One. Cable provider is doing upgrades or maintenance in the neighborhood for two days? Sorry, you can't play your Xbox One until it 'phones home'.

I believe you can't play games on any stationary console when the power is out ;)
(and I'd probably try to set up connection through cellular in the 2nd scenario; shouldn't take much bandwidth)

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Performance
by Soulbender on Thu 23rd May 2013 09:08 UTC in reply to "RE: Performance"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

The fee comes with used games.


It's the sociopath businessman's wet dream: "You know, not only do we get paid for the sale, we get paid EVERY single time someone sell their game to someone else".

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: Performance
by ricegf on Thu 23rd May 2013 13:06 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Performance"
ricegf Member since:
2007-04-25

I remember Isaac Asimov being astounded that he could keep selling his short stories over and over and over again via anthologies and consumer magazines and such. Heck of a deal, but just a natural side effect of extended duration copyrights.

Sounds like Microsoft is seeking the same revenue stream.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Performance
by tylerdurden on Thu 23rd May 2013 16:17 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Performance"
tylerdurden Member since:
2009-03-17

No surprising, "subscription model" is the rage among MBAs these days.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Performance
by Neolander on Fri 24th May 2013 06:40 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Performance"
Neolander Member since:
2010-03-08

No surprising, "subscription model" is the rage among MBAs these days.

Well, it can actually makes sense for some physical products, such as professional coffee machines or consumer modem/routers, in the form of maintenance contracts and renting replacing actual ownership.

Initial "purchase" is cheaper, broken stuff gets promptly replaced by working one at no cost, and you don't have to care about the repairs that may have to be carried out. You spend more, but in exchange you know exactly how much you'll spend every month.

The only thing is, a methodology that works for a given business cannot always be shoehorned into every other business, and that seems hard to grasp for some companies' management.

Edited 2013-05-24 06:47 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Performance
by p13. on Thu 23rd May 2013 09:57 UTC in reply to "RE: Performance"
p13. Member since:
2005-07-10

I'm sorry, but a re-install is the same thing as installing a used game. I find the recent trend of charging a fee for used games worrying, yet not NEARLY as worrying as the general public's acceptance of it.

Phoning home once a day requires an always on connection. If your connection is out, you won't be able to play YOUR games that YOU PAID FOR. How is this okay? More importantly ... how on earth could you, or anyone, agree with that limitation?

Edited 2013-05-23 10:01 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Performance
by WereCatf on Thu 23rd May 2013 10:05 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Performance"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

I'm sorry, but a re-install is the same thing as installing a used game.


Not in the XBO-case: when you install the game for the first time it's tied to your account. If you remove the game from the system it'll still remain tied to it and therefore you could just re-install it without paying a fee. With a used game, however, you have to re-associate the game to your own account. That's where the difference comes in.

Hoe is this okay? More importantly ... how on earth coulf you, or anyone, agree with that limitation?


Please, do point to where I said that is okay or that I agree with such a limitation? I merely stated facts as-is, I didn't state my stance on it at all. Less frothing at the mouth and more reading-comprehension, please.

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: Performance
by p13. on Thu 23rd May 2013 10:11 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Performance"
p13. Member since:
2005-07-10

Might not be the same thing in the xbox one's case, but that's my point. There is no reason it shouldn't be.

As for the "frothing at the mouth" ... you sounded more than a bit apologetic for the xbox when you said i must've been reading some very false facts and what i said wasn't true. When you take one or two steps backward and look at the situation as iy sits .... I'm sure you'll see that there is truth to what i've said.

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Performance
by WereCatf on Thu 23rd May 2013 10:30 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Performance"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

Might not be the same thing in the xbox one's case, but that's my point. There is no reason it shouldn't be.


There is no technical reason. There is a financial motive behind it, though, and that's why it is different. You're trying to argue how it should be, whereas I am just saying how it is.

As for the "frothing at the mouth" ... you sounded more than a bit apologetic for the xbox when you said i must've been reading some very false facts and what i said wasn't true.


Stating facts is considered "apologetic?" That's news to me. As I said, there is no fee for re-installing the game, there is a fee for transferring it to a new user. I agree that it shouldn't be that way, but that doesn't change how it is at the moment.

I'm sure you'll see that there is truth to what i've said.


No.

Reply Score: 2

v RE[6]: Performance
by p13. on Thu 23rd May 2013 10:57 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Performance"
RE[7]: Performance
by Soulbender on Thu 23rd May 2013 11:12 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Performance"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

I'm stating facts as they exist in the real world, not regurgitating ms's EULA.
Reinstalling a game is the same thing as installing a used game.


The facts in the real world is that it doesn't cost anything to re-install a game while there's a fee for installing a purchased second-hand game. This is regardless of your opinion that they're the same.

You cannot see behind your version of the "facts" ...


You seem to have a bit of that problem yourself.

If i break into your house, and convince you that it's okay, will that make it okay?


Wow, a wonderful argument that has no relation at all to the discussion at hand.

I wouldn't want to judge you as arrogant, but you're not giving me much to work with here ...


I'm going to be gracious and not say what you come across as.

Reply Score: 3

Comment by mutantsushi
by mutantsushi on Thu 23rd May 2013 07:15 UTC
mutantsushi
Member since:
2006-08-18

"The funny thing about game consoles is that it’s usually the lowest common denominator that determines the bulk of the experience across all platforms."
Sure, so cross-platform games will be written for XBox specs, and given signifigantly enhanced graphics and audio on PS4. What the difference in GPU performance means can be seen in PC gaming, where the results of similar platforms with different GPUs are well known. And the rest of PS4's platform should be largely superior to Xbox besides, XBox's SRAM will help but will doubtfully wipe-out PS4's overall advantage.

Like Anand wrote "Note that unlike the Xbox 360 vs. PS3 era, Sony's hardware advantage here won't need any clever developer work to extract - the architectures are near identical, Sony just has more resources available to use."

While PS4 exclusives will be non-portable to XBox, titles originating on XBox should be portable to PS4 (i.e. not literal exclusives, but ones which are developed on one platform initially).

Edited 2013-05-23 07:21 UTC

Reply Score: 1

Indie-games
by WereCatf on Thu 23rd May 2013 08:27 UTC
WereCatf
Member since:
2006-02-15

One thing that might heavily skew the fight in Sony's and Nintendo's favor in certain markets is how Microsoft still won't allow Indie-devs to self-publish their games for the XBO whereas both Sony and Nintendo do; if you wanna your games on the XBO you have to sign a publishing deal with either Microsoft Games - division or some other publisher, and quite likely give up on several rights you'd have on the other two competing platforms. I know I find Microsoft's stance appalling.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Indie-games
by Soulbender on Thu 23rd May 2013 08:55 UTC in reply to "Indie-games"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

if you wanna your games on the XBO you have to sign a publishing deal with either Microsoft Games - division or some other publisher


...say what? Really? That's a rather......obsolete way of thinking.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Indie-games
by WereCatf on Thu 23rd May 2013 09:09 UTC in reply to "RE: Indie-games"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

...say what? Really? That's a rather......obsolete way of thinking.


I agree, but according to http://www.gamespot.com/news/indie-developers-cannot-self-publish-g... that's how the Microsoft execs have decided. They even admit people have voiced their opinion about this, but that they'll still stick to their guns.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Indie-games
by tylerdurden on Thu 23rd May 2013 16:19 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Indie-games"
tylerdurden Member since:
2009-03-17

Microsoft continuing to ignore feedback? That's actually very good news.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Indie-games
by darknexus on Thu 23rd May 2013 10:54 UTC in reply to "RE: Indie-games"
darknexus Member since:
2008-07-15

...say what? Really? That's a rather......obsolete way of thinking.

Well, we are talking about a rather backward and obsolete (in ideas) company.

Reply Score: 0

RE[2]: Indie-games
by moondevil on Thu 23rd May 2013 10:57 UTC in reply to "RE: Indie-games"
moondevil Member since:
2005-07-08

I didn't saw a quality value in what was being offered in XBLIG and have decided to go for the usual console way of working only with publishers.

Reply Score: 2

I suspect
by re_re on Thu 23rd May 2013 16:11 UTC
re_re
Member since:
2005-07-06

I suspect the only games that may take advantage of the PS4's added horsepower are PS4 spacific games. Most all of the multi console games will simply be made to run on the slowest hardware.

Reply Score: 2