Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sun 23rd Jun 2013 18:39 UTC
Apple "Apple's new iOS 7, which the company unveiled last week at its Worldwide Developer Conference, says a lot about the future of mobile devices because Apple owns the future of mobile devices." If you're an Apple fanatic, you're going to love this article. If you're not an Apple fanatic, you'll be shaking your head in disbelief that the once great AppleInsider runs stuff like this these days. Hey, there's always MacRumors - the last great bastion of proper Apple rumour reporting.
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v Comment by Wafflez
by Wafflez on Sun 23rd Jun 2013 19:16 UTC
RE: Comment by Wafflez
by Fergy on Sun 23rd Jun 2013 19:42 UTC in reply to "Comment by Wafflez"
Fergy Member since:
2006-04-10

When I look at Android I see poor linux OS that was tried to be pulled to mobile. And it failed, again, in my opinion.

When I will do something I hope I will fail like Android.

Reply Score: 13

RE[2]: Comment by Wafflez
by Wafflez on Sun 23rd Jun 2013 19:44 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by Wafflez"
Wafflez Member since:
2011-06-26

Well Bieber has a ton of fans too, so I cannot say that he failed as a singer?

Atleast here in Lithuania, the only reason I see cheap Android tablets instead of iPads is, well, because they're cheap. And yes I asked.

Reply Score: 0

RE[3]: Comment by Wafflez
by Fergy on Sun 23rd Jun 2013 20:17 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by Wafflez"
Fergy Member since:
2006-04-10

Well Bieber has a ton of fans too, so I cannot say that he failed as a singer?

Atleast here in Lithuania, the only reason I see cheap Android tablets instead of iPads is, well, because they're cheap. And yes I asked.

Yes that is what I have been hearing since the iPhone came out: The only reason Android succeeds is because it is a cheap knockoff.

The only way you can be _that_ dense is if you have Apple glasses on.

Reply Score: 6

RE[4]: Comment by Wafflez
by Nelson on Sun 23rd Jun 2013 20:28 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by Wafflez"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

Its been my experience as well that a lot of Android users are there primarily because of cost, and that a good chunk of them aspire to own iOS devices.

I think its great that some people here like Android for its ideals. Open, free, yada, yada. However I don't think that sentiment is necessarily universal, or a significant driving factor in its adoption.

I've never heard a lay person say they love Android because its Linux, or because it has an SD Card, or a task manager, or can run an HTTP server or whatever.

People use Android because its flexible, cheap, and available. There's very little brand loyalty there (save for the Samsungistas)

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Comment by Wafflez
by Fergy on Sun 23rd Jun 2013 21:02 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by Wafflez"
Fergy Member since:
2006-04-10

I've never heard a lay person say they love Android because its Linux, or because it has an SD Card, or a task manager, or can run an HTTP server or whatever.

I have never heard anyone say they use Android because it uses Linux.
People use Android because its flexible, cheap, and available. There's very little brand loyalty there (save for the Samsungistas)

I agree, it is very similar to Windows.

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Comment by Wafflez
by Nelson on Sun 23rd Jun 2013 21:11 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by Wafflez"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

Agreed. Android is the Windows model successfully applied to mobile phones. It is in many ways the spiritual successor to Windows Mobile.

I feel like it will also have Windows type problems, and you're already seeing some of them manifest. The perception that Android carries a lot of malware is one that Windows had to fight as well.

Another is preinstalled crapware and idiotic OEMs to deal with. Some times openness comes back to bite you when it comes to quality.

Performance takes a nose dive and it is unfairly attributed to Google or Android as a whole at times -- another Microsoft type of problem.

Google isn't stupid though, and they have the advantage of hindsight in all of this. These aren't really bad problems to have, growing pains are better than hunger pains I suppose. Either way, I expect them to carefully navigate these waters as Android matures as a platform and gains a critical mass.

I don't think it will necessarily trip them up, they just need to make Android more attractive as a premium brand. Holo, Project Butter, and Google's excellent showing at I/O for developers will help here.

Edited 2013-06-23 21:13 UTC

Reply Score: 6

RE[6]: Comment by Wafflez
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Wed 26th Jun 2013 04:18 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by Wafflez"
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

Well, now you have. I do use android because it uses linux, as well as other reasons.

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: Comment by Wafflez
by Fergy on Wed 26th Jun 2013 06:38 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Comment by Wafflez"
Fergy Member since:
2006-04-10

Why is it important to you that it runs linux?

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Comment by Wafflez
by No it isnt on Sun 23rd Jun 2013 21:27 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by Wafflez"
No it isnt Member since:
2005-11-14

Very little brand loyalty? You seriously want to pretend the Android fanbois don't exist?

Reply Score: 5

RE[6]: Comment by Wafflez
by Nelson on Sun 23rd Jun 2013 21:37 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by Wafflez"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

Very little brand loyalty? You seriously want to pretend the Android fanbois don't exist?


Fanboyism and loyalty are not one in the same, whereas fanboyism is rationalization and justification, loyalty manifests itself in retention statistics.

How many new Android subscribers came from iOS? How many people who bought an iPhone 5 owned an iPhone prior? How many people who bought an iPhone 5 converted from Android?

These are the relevant stats, not a vocal minority of rabid fanboys.

Reply Score: 4

RE[7]: Comment by Wafflez
by No it isnt on Sun 23rd Jun 2013 21:49 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Comment by Wafflez"
No it isnt Member since:
2005-11-14

And since Android still is growing, you already know the answer. Of course, as a hobbyist Android-hater, you don't like it.

Reply Score: 1

RE[7]: Comment by Wafflez
by WorknMan on Sun 23rd Jun 2013 21:57 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Comment by Wafflez"
WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

How many new Android subscribers came from iOS? How many people who bought an iPhone 5 owned an iPhone prior? How many people who bought an iPhone 5 converted from Android?

These are the relevant stats, not a vocal minority of rabid fanboys.


Unfortunately for Android, it is like a Windows PC... the kind of experience you have usually is determined by the kind of device you get. And since a lot of people go out to buy the absolute cheapest piece of crap device they can find, it's no wonder that so many of them yearn for an iPhone/iPad. And it doesn't help that 98% of Android tablets on the market are complete shit either.

But if the hardware is good and the vendor bloatware is minimal, iOS doesn't hold a candle to Android. For example, if you've ever used stock Android on a Nexus 4, it is as 'smooth' as iOS ever was. iOS7 looks impressive because they've finally gotten some features that Android has had for years, but it still hasn't caught up quite yet, and there have only been two minor updates to Android since October of 2011.

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: Comment by Wafflez
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Wed 26th Jun 2013 04:20 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Comment by Wafflez"
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

No, those are not relavant statistics. The relevant ones are market share growth over time. As microsoft proved, its not how much people *LOVE* their computer, its how useful it is to them. If it was, then this computer I'm typing on would be an amiga.

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Comment by Wafflez
by Wafflez on Mon 24th Jun 2013 10:39 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by Wafflez"
Wafflez Member since:
2011-06-26

Same as with Linux fanboys - small minority, but a vocal one.

Plus people are thick and they want to defend their cheap Android phones to make themselves believe that "oh yes I bought a good phone".

Reply Score: 4

RE[5]: Comment by Wafflez
by gan17 on Sun 23rd Jun 2013 22:20 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by Wafflez"
gan17 Member since:
2008-06-03

Its been my experience as well that a lot of Android users are there primarily because of cost, and that a good chunk of them aspire to own iOS devices.

Only half-true. Yes, some people would like to own an iDevice but can't afford them. On the other hand, there a people who simply want a smartphone, even though they still only make calls and messages (along with maybe facebook and twitter or whatever). It'd be the same use case scenario whether they were on iOS or Android. They don't have much use for everything smartphones offer, so there's no point in spending more. I'd wager this "get shit done and move on to real life" demographic is bigger than the "would own an iPhone if I could afford it" one.


I've never heard a lay person say they love Android because its Linux, or because it has an SD Card, or a task manager, or can run an HTTP server or whatever.

Can't speak for all lay people, but this lay person thinks Android is about as Linux-y as his microwave oven; it's only the kernel they share. On top of the kernel, they couldn't be more different, and thankfully so, imho. Having fairly secure, lean Linux distributions mentioned in the same sentence as Android is already insulting enough.


People use Android because its flexible, cheap, and available. There's very little brand loyalty there (save for the Samsungistas)

and Samsungistas listen to cheesy K-pop, which is even worse than Bieber.

Edited 2013-06-23 22:26 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Comment by Wafflez
by nej_simon on Sun 23rd Jun 2013 22:20 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by Wafflez"
nej_simon Member since:
2011-02-11

Its been my experience as well that a lot of Android users are there primarily because of cost, and that a good chunk of them aspire to own iOS devices.


That's purely anecdotal.

Reply Score: 1

RE[6]: Comment by Wafflez
by Nelson on Sun 23rd Jun 2013 22:24 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by Wafflez"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

Really, which part tipped you off, the part where I said it was my experience?

Are you going to call my opinions subjective too?

Reply Score: 4

RE[7]: Comment by Wafflez
by JAlexoid on Mon 24th Jun 2013 09:32 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Comment by Wafflez"
JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

Are they not?

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Comment by Wafflez
by Soulbender on Mon 24th Jun 2013 04:48 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by Wafflez"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

People use Android because its flexible, cheap, and available


In other words, all the right reasons.

There's very little brand loyalty there


Maybe they're smart enough not to be loyal to a brand and a company who really don't give a shit about them...

Reply Score: 6

RE[5]: Comment by Wafflez
by phoudoin on Mon 24th Jun 2013 09:08 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by Wafflez"
phoudoin Member since:
2006-06-09

I've never heard a lay person say they love Android because its Linux, or because it has an SD Card, or a task manager, or can run an HTTP server or whatever.


I've heard a lot of Android owners saying they love it because it has an USB port, can be charged from whatever USB powered port and can act as an USB mass storage under whatever operating system without having to install some bloated software first, if it's even available for this operating system.

People use Android because its flexible, cheap, and available. There's very little brand loyalty there (save for the Samsungistas)


And?
Since when hardware plateform rules over software plateform!?

The ecosystem which matter is the features one, most of them being software ones, not some unique hardware ones.

Reply Score: 3

RE[5]: Comment by Wafflez
by Laurence on Mon 24th Jun 2013 09:27 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by Wafflez"
Laurence Member since:
2007-03-26


People use Android because its flexible, cheap, and available. There's very little brand loyalty there

Good. Because brand loyalty is dumb. I'd rather see more platform agnostic users push Google and the OEMs into continually improving Android on price and features than have hoards of fanboys loyally buying Android because they're too narrow-minded to try anything else.

Reply Score: 6

RE[5]: Comment by Wafflez
by tkeith on Mon 24th Jun 2013 13:57 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by Wafflez"
tkeith Member since:
2010-09-01

The "people buy Android because it is cheap" argument has 0 weight in the US. With our 2 year agreements, all phones cost about the same. You can get an Iphone 4 on Verizon for free right now with a 2 year agreement. Top of the line phones are $200, the iphone 5 is the same price as a S4 or RZR MAXX. Yet they still sell lots of Android devices. There may be some people that buy phone because their cheap, but a lot of the time they buy iphones. I know plenty of people that bought 3GS's when the 4S was out because it was free.

People buy Apple phones for lots of reasons, and people buy Android phones for lots of, presumably different, reasons. Trying to pigeon hole them into stereotypes just doesn't work.

Reply Score: 4

RE[5]: Comment by Wafflez
by Lurking_Grue on Mon 24th Jun 2013 16:24 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by Wafflez"
Lurking_Grue Member since:
2013-03-15

> Its been my experience as well that a lot of Android users are there primarily because of cost, and that a good chunk of them aspire to own iOS devices.

That isn't exactly true, people have access to iOs devices even used ones at comparable prices to android.

I don't use apple devices out of choice and prefer more open systems but I know my choices is not the mainstream reasons.

I think many people just don't care.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Comment by Wafflez
by No it isnt on Sun 23rd Jun 2013 21:03 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by Wafflez"
No it isnt Member since:
2005-11-14

Bieber's music isn't all that interesting, but he's certainly not a failure as a pop singer. There are hundreds of well respected legends of pop and rock who don't have nearly that good a command of their voice.

And even though talent alone won't get you anywhere in pop music, it's hardly by random chance that he's struck something in so many teenage girls. They want something which they believe they see in Bieber. Android sells for pretty much the same reason: a huge number of people believe it is what they want, at a price they're willing to pay. And certainly neither iOS nor WP8 can do anything Android that can't, so they're objectively right.

Meanwhile, a bunch of idiots on the internet will pretend it's a failure.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Comment by Wafflez
by nej_simon on Sun 23rd Jun 2013 22:13 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by Wafflez"
nej_simon Member since:
2011-02-11

Well Bieber has a ton of fans too, so I cannot say that he failed as a singer?


You can say that but you would be provably wrong as he has been hugely successful.

Atleast here in Lithuania, the only reason I see cheap Android tablets instead of iPads is, well, because they're cheap. And yes I asked.


Asked who?

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment by Wafflez
by Laurence on Mon 24th Jun 2013 09:12 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by Wafflez"
Laurence Member since:
2007-03-26

Well Bieber has a ton of fans too, so I cannot say that he failed as a singer?

Atleast here in Lithuania, the only reason I see cheap Android tablets instead of iPads is, well, because they're cheap. And yes I asked.

Well yeah, cheap Android tablets are popular because they're cheap. However if you compare iPads and iPhones to similarly spec'ed Android devices (read: non-cheap Android tablets and handsets), then they're popular for whole other reasons.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Comment by Wafflez
by JAlexoid on Mon 24th Jun 2013 09:29 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by Wafflez"
JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

Yep, in a country where the average monthly income is equal to the price of an iPad they would buy expensive non-essentials.

And yet expensive Android phones are still widespread in Lithuania. Granted, prices of iPhones in Lithuania make is sensible to grab a plane ticket to any larger EU country and buy one there.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by Wafflez
by darknexus on Sun 23rd Jun 2013 20:34 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by Wafflez"
darknexus Member since:
2008-07-15

When I will do something I hope I will fail like Android.

No you don't, but I'd bet you hope you will succeed like Samsung. There is a difference between Android the operating system, and devices that run it. Android by itself, if you factor in monetary gain for Google, is fairly dismal. Factor in the gain in device sales for other companies besides Google (companies that market what the users actually want in a device and don't have to develop the os themselves) and you'll see success. Even Google has noticed this.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment by Wafflez
by BushLin on Sun 23rd Jun 2013 20:46 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by Wafflez"
BushLin Member since:
2011-01-26

Yeah I'm sure Google are really upset that they make little from a successful mobile OS which permanently ties a Google account into all their (and 3rd party) services while making sure you have tracking and adverts fully working throughout.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Comment by Wafflez
by Nelson on Sun 23rd Jun 2013 20:57 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by Wafflez"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

Google's services are value-add on top of Android which could go away as soon as viable alternatives are found.

There is extraordinary pressure on OEMs to do this given the razor thin margins everyone except Samsung enjoys. Being able to subsidize cost on the back of a service is the next logical step in the Android price war going on.

Amazon has already done it, why not others? Google would be wise to worry, and wiser to exert some more control over their platform before it gets away from them.

Reply Score: 4

RE[5]: Comment by Wafflez
by unclefester on Mon 24th Jun 2013 05:10 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by Wafflez"
unclefester Member since:
2007-01-13

Amazon has already done it, why not others? Google would be wise to worry, and wiser to exert some more control over their platform before it gets away from them.


Amazon is really little more than a sophisticated Ponzi scheme with Jeff Bezos as the main beneficiary. Amazon doesn't makes a profit. It will almost certainly never be a sound investment because its "business plan" relies on selling items below cost (if you include shipping costs) and avoiding sales tax. This creates a massive but unsustainable market. If Amazon charged the real costs of its' products its' market would collapse overnight.

Edited 2013-06-24 05:20 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[5]: Comment by Wafflez
by pos3 on Mon 24th Jun 2013 08:04 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by Wafflez"
pos3 Member since:
2010-06-25

Samsung is not able to match specs for lower end local branded mobiles sold in india. There are more then 5 major indian brands fighting for the lower end which questions how thin or thick are those margins.

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Comment by Wafflez
by unclefester on Mon 24th Jun 2013 08:23 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by Wafflez"
unclefester Member since:
2007-01-13

Samsung is not able to match specs for lower end local branded mobiles sold in india. There are more then 5 major indian brands fighting for the lower end which questions how thin or thick are those margins.


Samsung doesn't want to compete at the very bottom end of the market. Samsung handsets typically have lower specifications but better quality than many similarly priced handsets.

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Comment by Wafflez
by JAlexoid on Mon 24th Jun 2013 09:36 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by Wafflez"
JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

Amazon has done that, and lost most of the value that Google now provides. But to be fair - it's hard to replace Google's services, they are just too good.

And no, OEMs are not scrambling to replace Google. They are scrambling to find that value-add that will lure in people.

Reply Score: 3

RE[5]: Comment by Wafflez
by Bennie on Mon 24th Jun 2013 17:24 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by Wafflez"
Bennie Member since:
2012-06-14

IF high-end phones from HTC Sony and Samsung are all comparably priced, why is it then that the margins are much thinner for HTC and Sony than for Samsung? I guess all those phones are being build for 150-200 USD and sold for about 500-600 USD.

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Comment by Wafflez
by bentoo on Mon 24th Jun 2013 18:33 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by Wafflez"
bentoo Member since:
2012-09-21

IF high-end phones from HTC Sony and Samsung are all comparably priced, why is it then that the margins are much thinner for HTC and Sony than for Samsung?


Samsung produces more of their components (CPU, memory, screen, etc.) in house and thus has better margins.

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: Comment by Wafflez
by Bennie on Tue 25th Jun 2013 02:39 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Comment by Wafflez"
Bennie Member since:
2012-06-14

OK, what I actually tried to say: Why is it, if the margins seemingly are the same (just a little bit better for Samsung because they make a lot of the chips themselves), that Nelson said margins are razor thin for manufacturers other than Samsung. I think building cost $150-200 / selling price $500-600 are not razor thin margins.

Edited 2013-06-25 02:42 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE: Comment by Wafflez
by pooo on Mon 24th Jun 2013 04:37 UTC in reply to "Comment by Wafflez"
pooo Member since:
2006-04-22

Spoken like someone who has never used a a recent android phone, or possibly never used ios. If you have used both extensively you would never say such a misguided thing.

Android's most recent iterations, sorry, are far superior to iOS in every way except one: gpu accelerated everything that makes iOS always feel more buttery than Android.

Apart from that it looks nicer (especially with iOS7) has more useful features for mobile, and in general is smarter, more powerful, and *just as usable* as iOS. Not acknowledging this and instead making extreme comments about how bad Android is reveals you as either a raging apple fanboi, raging google hater, or just completely clueless.

Can't speak for Win8 but you are insanely wrong about iOS and Android.

Edited 2013-06-24 04:40 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Comment by Wafflez
by unclefester on Mon 24th Jun 2013 08:47 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by Wafflez"
unclefester Member since:
2007-01-13

Spoken like someone who has never used a a recent android phone, or possibly never used ios. If you have used both extensively you would never say such a misguided thing.


many people who complain about Android have probably only tried the bargain basement 2.x versions with a 600Mhz processor and 192MB of RAM.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by Wafflez
by Wafflez on Mon 24th Jun 2013 10:42 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by Wafflez"
Wafflez Member since:
2011-06-26

There's tablets at work, Android is 4.1, but I'd take iPad any time of the day.

I do not own any tablet because I think that iPad is worth ~100 dollars for such toy, but it's just better than Android.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Comment by Wafflez
by phoudoin on Mon 24th Jun 2013 08:54 UTC in reply to "Comment by Wafflez"
phoudoin Member since:
2006-06-09

So, albeit having a good design, a way too restrited mobile OS is so a success that you will NOT buy any device running it because while more powerfull it does less than an way older device?

Is there is *any* logic here!?

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by Wafflez
by Wafflez on Mon 24th Jun 2013 10:43 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by Wafflez"
Wafflez Member since:
2011-06-26

I'm just comparing two shits, and iOS > Android.

I can compare anything I like, you know.

Reply Score: 1

Comment by Nelson
by Nelson on Sun 23rd Jun 2013 19:33 UTC
Nelson
Member since:
2005-11-29

I think iOS was a clear reactionary move to (however fair) complaints that iOS was boring.

Of course the soup of the day just happens to be swiss design and flat aesthetics so that's where iOS went. I don't really think they copied Windows Phone or Android as much as they drew clear inspiration.

I think Apple remains uniquely Apple while lifting the good things from Android/Windows Phone. Quick setting changing is a thing I miss on my Windows Phone, and its great that iOS is taking it from Android. FWIW I think UbuntuOS currently does this best.

I'd still say Android's Holo theme is the least polarizing and best balance of skeumorphism and digital design that I've seen on a mobile OS. It isnt overly textured and annoying like iOS is, without being flat to an extreme like Windows Phone.

This article raises some good points (particularly about the importance of meaningful statistics like app developer revenue vs useless activation counts from Android) but again, is tinged with the usual fanatic extremism.

But still, Apple needed something, anything, which would freshen their UI a bit. I think they were wise to retain some familiarity while toning down a lot of the adornments. I don't think Apple's redesign will be received badly.

Apple may very well be leading mobile computing, but it isn't because of an unreleased OS shown off a few days ago.

Reply Score: 5

Embarrassing
by darknexus on Sun 23rd Jun 2013 20:41 UTC
darknexus
Member since:
2008-07-15

It's articles like this, and the people who write them, that cause everyone to view those who use Apple products as idiots. I wish all fanboys would just crawl back under their slimy little rock and leave the rest of us in peace.

Reply Score: 4

We will Berry you!
by tomz on Sun 23rd Jun 2013 20:47 UTC
tomz
Member since:
2010-05-06

Blackberry based on QNX is even more efficient. Whether Linux or BSD - and iOS is BSD - it isn't optimized for mobile.

As to Apple, I've given up. Everything I want to do requires jailbreaking or passing through a toll-booth. If you don't get 3G/4G, you don't get GPS, so what do you do if you are in the middle of nowhere and there are no wifi APs to triangulate? There are sub $40 GPS units, but you need magic steve job ash pixel dust for any bluetooth GPS to work on iOS.

Then there's the Xcode app-store tollboth (I have a few macs, and they are becoming appliances and media players, if I wanted to develop, I could, but refuse to jump through the hoops).

I want to write apps, but they are for me, or would be free. So the slide indicating revenue basically tells me Apple doesn't want me to develop for them. They only want people who are willing to pay to play, then hopefully get something back.

I have android development on both my dual-boot windows and XP. I'm looking at BlackBerry.

Reply Score: 2

RE: We will Berry you!
by d3vi1 on Sun 23rd Jun 2013 21:25 UTC in reply to "We will Berry you!"
d3vi1 Member since:
2006-01-28

Blackberry based on QNX is even more efficient. Whether Linux or BSD - and iOS is BSD - it isn't optimized for mobile.


iOS has almost nothing to do with BSD. Linux has more BSD in it than OS X and iOS. As an iOS/OS X programmer I can tell you that while there are BSD remains in Darwin, there aren't that many, and that while you can use the BSD API's there are just as many and better integrated IOKIT and CF API's that do exactly the same thing.
Apple, while small and dying used BSD to bootstrap it's Darwin kernel, but the BSD to Apple ratio is shrinking dramatically these days favouring Apple.
Yes, you can use /dev/bpf to listen to raw etherframes but OS X provides a much better API that doesn't require you to change the permissions on the filesystem.

As to Apple, I've given up. Everything I want to do requires jailbreaking or passing through a toll-booth. If you don't get 3G/4G, you don't get GPS, so what do you do if you are in the middle of nowhere and there are no wifi APs to triangulate? There are sub $40 GPS units, but you need magic steve job ash pixel dust for any bluetooth GPS to work on iOS.


I don't know where you live, but both my iPad and iPhone work perfectly with GPS without data connections, though with about 90 seconds acquire time as opposed to 1-2 seconds. I've used my iPad with the 3G disabled to plot a few flights from gate to fate.

Then there's the Xcode app-store tollboth (I have a few macs, and they are becoming appliances and media players, if I wanted to develop, I could, but refuse to jump through the hoops).

I want to write apps, but they are for me, or would be free. So the slide indicating revenue basically tells me Apple doesn't want me to develop for them. They only want people who are willing to pay to play, then hopefully get something back.


There's nothing stopping you from writing your own apps and running them. The API restrictions apply to the store only. If you write your own app that formats the device, it's your problem. You sign it, regardless of the function, with the Apple Developer Certificate and distribute it on up to 100 devices.

I have android development on both my dual-boot windows and XP. I'm looking at BlackBerry.

Yes, Xcode doesn't run on multiple platforms. You finally nailed one out of four complaints.
I honestly couldn't care less because:

a) I like MacOS
b) I can afford an Apple computer
c) I find Apple hardware to be better than the one from competitors across the whole product line.

In reality, there's nothing stopping you from developing iOS apps on Windows, Linux, BSD or Solaris, you just have to do a little bit of research. Hint: GNUStep. Obviously, the final compilation and debugging station would still have to be a Mac OS X, but you can easily have a 10 programmer team out of which 9 use GNUStep and 1 uses OS X to test, modify and build for iOS.
Not to mention the countless Java, Flash and .NET (mono) alternatives that are available in both commercial and open source flavours all of which produce iOS binaries.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: We will Berry you!
by moondevil on Mon 24th Jun 2013 06:48 UTC in reply to "RE: We will Berry you!"
moondevil Member since:
2005-07-08

GNUStep is not an option for any serious Objective-C developer.

You spend more time compiling the tooling while trying to achieve Objective-C 2.x compatibility than working on your application.

As for buying a Mac for iOS development, it is no different than buying a PC with Windows and SandyBridge for WP development.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: We will Berry you!
by JAlexoid on Mon 24th Jun 2013 09:43 UTC in reply to "RE: We will Berry you!"
JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

You sign it, regardless of the function, with the Apple Developer Certificate and distribute it on up to 100 devices.

Remind me how free is that certificate? Last time I checked it's $99 per year.

Not to mention the countless Java, Flash and .NET (mono) alternatives that are available in both commercial and open source flavours all of which produce iOS binaries

That still require a Mac to build.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: We will Berry you!
by moondevil on Mon 24th Jun 2013 14:33 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: We will Berry you!"
moondevil Member since:
2005-07-08

Both are peanuts when doing commercial software development.

Reply Score: 4

RE[4]: We will Berry you!
by JAlexoid on Tue 25th Jun 2013 14:02 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: We will Berry you!"
JAlexoid Member since:
2009-05-19

And this thread disputes the commercial part of it?
Let me refresh your memory:

They only want people who are willing to pay to play, then hopefully get something back.

Reply Score: 1

RE: We will Berry you!
by phti on Mon 24th Jun 2013 05:56 UTC in reply to "We will Berry you!"
phti Member since:
2012-06-02

Well, hurry up, Blackberry is about to shut down completely. Nobody is buying their stuff anymore.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: We will Berry you!
by unclefester on Mon 24th Jun 2013 07:52 UTC in reply to "RE: We will Berry you!"
unclefester Member since:
2007-01-13

Well, hurry up, Blackberry is about to shut down completely. Nobody is buying their stuff anymore.


That's probably why the stock price has increased from $6.22 to $13.70. /sarc

Reply Score: 4

considering iOS 7 borrows heavily...
by cmost on Sun 23rd Jun 2013 21:22 UTC
cmost
Member since:
2006-07-16

From what I've read and observed about Apple's new iOS 7 it has borrowed heavily from Android. (And made a mess if it as it were.) I would hardly consider that as "leading" or "innovating" in mobile computing. Next year, Apple will be suing Google for violating patents of features Apple stole from Android but are now part of iOS 7. That's apparently the world we live in these days.

Reply Score: 4

Ahem
by XIII on Mon 24th Jun 2013 10:41 UTC
XIII
Member since:
2006-06-20

Am I the only one appreciating the irony of an OS news site posting 'news' criticizing an apple fan site for posting apple fan news?
Pot blaming the kettle much?

Reply Score: 1

helf
Member since:
2005-07-06

"When Intel embraced RISC principles or ARM's 64-bit architecture in its x86 chips, or when Microsoft copied the Mac's graphical desktop, NeXT's object orientation and then the entire architecture VMS, not only were there no allegations that the WinTel partners were visionless copycats that had to steal ideas to remain relevant, but it also did nothing but increase their grasp on the industry. And it was celebrated, not demonized by the mainstream tech media. "

D:

wut. *scratches head*. Intel embraced RISC? when, exactly? ARMs 64bitness? What? MS copied VMS? David Cutler worked for MS. He is the father of VMS. Of course he is going to bring over a lot of his VMS ideas when tasked with creating a new kernel for MS.

This editorial is so filled with misinformation and foamy, blind fanboyism that is it scary.

Reply Score: 1

bentoo Member since:
2012-09-21

This editorial is so filled with misinformation and foamy, blind fanboyism that is it scary.


Agree with you and Thom. Dilger is delusional (and well known for being so). I thought ai had at least some small amount of integrity but carrying an article from this nut job makes me question even that.

Edited 2013-06-24 18:51 UTC

Reply Score: 3

Can't tell if satire or stupid.
by Verenkeitin on Mon 24th Jun 2013 15:30 UTC
Verenkeitin
Member since:
2007-07-01

What a load of incoherent drivel.

Reply Score: 1

customer bias
by SonicMetalMan on Mon 24th Jun 2013 18:20 UTC
SonicMetalMan
Member since:
2009-05-25

The real issue here is that the media outlets are only taking advantage of our own bias so that they do not have to do any actual investigative reporting.

Let's face it, all the various mobile platforms have strengths and weaknesses. The platform you pick SHOULD be based solely on "best fit" criteria for your needs but for most of us this rarely happens. Humans are too easily distracted by "pretty shiny things" and therefore don't always make rational decisions based on needs. We are far too visual for that.

When using a Brand X mobile OS, can you honestly say that you could not use Brand B just as effectively? We've been brainwashed to not even consider the alternative.

The good folks at Apple, AppleInsider, and even MacRumours need to remember that Apple did not invent the touch-screen smartphone. Apple only made it more user-friendly for the masses.

Technology evolves and our expectations evolve with it. Most of us just keep drinking the Kool-aid dished out by our favorite hardware provider and fawn over their latest offerings like it's all that there is.

Reply Score: 3

fran
Member since:
2010-08-06

In disappointing news, for less fortunate wannabe iphone owners, the budget iphone set for future release might not be so budget after all. IBtime report: http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/482352/20130624/budget-iphone-lite-l... is set to be a big disappointment to all thrifty buyers who were crossing their fingers for an iPhone device just within their means."

Apple is throwing away an opportunity here.

Edited 2013-06-24 18:42 UTC

Reply Score: 2

MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

They always say they won't bring out crappy product, so any "cheap" iPhone has to be a good iPhone. If the cheap iPhone is a good iPhone, why buy the expensive iPhone?

People will start to expect cheap(er) phones. Apple would enter a race to the bottom.

Reply Score: 2

fran Member since:
2010-08-06

They always say they won't bring out crappy product, so any "cheap" iPhone has to be a good iPhone. If the cheap iPhone is a good iPhone, why buy the expensive iPhone?

People will start to expect cheap(er) phones. Apple would enter a race to the bottom.


The article does not mean cheap. It means a more affordable iphone. And i know that "cheap" does not necessarily equates to bad quality.

What i see happening here is a repeat of the 1980's. Apple that stand strong as a luxury electronic vendor and the competition slowly making inroads until the product almost become irrelevant. This is what happened in the 1980-90's.
And this is happening gradually with iphone vs. android.

Greed lead to many a companies financial ruin.
Again i am not asking for a bargain basement price. Maybe a phone in the $250-$300 range. (prepaid, new i.e not on contract). And by that price i mean global pricing.

Edited 2013-06-25 17:15 UTC

Reply Score: 1

MOS6510 Member since:
2011-05-12

You are making good points!

But many people can already afford an iPhone. If you really really want an iPhone you can save money for it. It make take a few months or even a year, but you can get one.

If they make an affordable one, one that's good, why would people buy the more expensive one? Apple may sell more phones, but make less money.

Once they start doing that it will become a common assumption that phones cost a certain amount like it is accepted now that iPhones cost $X. Apple can't raise prices again, because that would take them above the accepted level.

Just like people expect to pay a certain amount of cash for a laptop, which were a lot more expensive in the past.

Reply Score: 2

zima Member since:
2005-07-06

If you must save a year for an iPhone, you really shouldn't be getting one...

Reply Score: 2

Boy, have we...
by MatsSvensson on Tue 25th Jun 2013 05:20 UTC
MatsSvensson
Member since:
2010-07-09

Are they leading "mobile computing", because they have patented the phrase?

Reply Score: 0

Comical Ali returns from teh dead
by unclefester on Tue 25th Jun 2013 09:10 UTC
unclefester
Member since:
2007-01-13

The author reminds me of Comical Ali the former Iraqi Information Minister who boasted how the Americans were being smashed - even as US forces were entering Baghdad.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Saeed_al-Sahhaf

The author should read today's news. Apple stock price has been downgraded because iPhone shipments are expected to be as low as 25-30 million units in the next quarter compared with earlier estimates of 40-45 million units. This represents a 30-45% fall.

Reply Score: 2