Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 27th Jun 2013 18:35 UTC
Games "Microsoft's Build developers conference in San Francisco has mainly focused on Windows 8.1 so far, but the company spent a few minutes talking about the future Xbox One development platform on Thursday. Steve Guggenheimer, vice president of Microsoft's Developer & Platform Evangelism group, provided big hints at how developers can target the Xbox One in future." Many Windows 8 Metro applications would work relatively well with Kinect gestures and such - so this makes sense to me. Still don't want a 'media entertainment experience device' though; I want a game console.
Order by: Score:
Don't agree with Thom here
by HangLoose on Thu 27th Jun 2013 19:35 UTC
HangLoose
Member since:
2007-09-03

I loved the idea of having a well integrated PC/gaming console on my living room twithout the hassle of the non-ending updates. When I saw the Xbox integration with Skype and browser I was drooling.

But the MS went on and announced that the console can't be used without the kinect spyware, I can't borrow/sell games and other things.

I also like the integration idea that Sony has between PS4 and PS Vita. Let's hope it works well. ;)

Reply Score: 4

RE: Don't agree with Thom here
by Wafflez on Thu 27th Jun 2013 20:27 UTC in reply to "Don't agree with Thom here"
Wafflez Member since:
2011-06-26

Even tho console was designed arround DRM and they couldn't simply flip the switch, they did that in about a week, lol. So now you can play used games.

Microsoft owned themselves so bad. ;)

Edited 2013-06-27 20:27 UTC

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Don't agree with Thom here
by roblearns on Fri 28th Jun 2013 06:13 UTC in reply to "RE: Don't agree with Thom here"
roblearns Member since:
2010-09-13

One way to look at the xBox One, is it's an AMD powered Windows pc that uses your tv as its monitor and yet costs a staggering $499.

I know it's supposed to be a value or loss leader - or they haven't made it clear, but it sure seems like they should be banking some dollars on system sales at that price.

I find the developments with Apple and Google more interesting than what Microsoft plans to do..., things like Dual Screen mirroring from iOS devices - that since iOS five allowed you to play games on your TV, and use the phone as the controller. It hasn't taken off that much yet - but Google is worried so much about a future version of Apple TV, that they are developing their own Android console.

I admit I was never going to buy the xBox - but I do have a PS4 on pre-order that I'm forever debating, do I really want the thing, lol. I justify it, though, as only being $399, plus it'll be my first foray into blu-ray.

I will definately keep an eye on iOS and Android as game platform for the big screen.

I think Nintendo totally didn't get it - people want to integrate their iPad or Tablet as that neat controller, and not have to buy one with the system.

Edited 2013-06-28 06:19 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Don't agree with Thom here
by zlynx on Sat 29th Jun 2013 01:27 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Don't agree with Thom here"
zlynx Member since:
2005-07-20

$499 is staggering?

What kind of junk computes do you buy?

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Don't agree with Thom here
by jockm on Sat 29th Jun 2013 03:28 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Don't agree with Thom here"
jockm Member since:
2012-12-22

I am genuinely not trying to pick on you but the line between acceptable and staggering is $100?

If you consider the average console purchase typically includes a couple of games, maybe an extra controller, etc, and either way you are probably spending in the ball park of $600-$700 (or more).

I don't mean this to apply to you, but it seems like most of the people I see emphasizing the $100 price difference seem to be doing it because they want to criticize MS, they want to pick that bone. In real world terms maybe you skimp a little on your initial purchase, but either way you are going to spend somewhere between $1000-$2000 (or more) over the lifetime of the console.

Now I do think MS should have launched at $399, I think it just a better price point psychologically. However in real world terms, that $100 price difference isn't really that big a deal. And we all know it is going to come down over time.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Don't agree with Thom here
by BluenoseJake on Fri 28th Jun 2013 13:09 UTC in reply to "Don't agree with Thom here"
BluenoseJake Member since:
2005-08-11

You can disable kinect when you are not using it, stop with the spyware bullshit, please. Also, MS backtracked on the borrowed and/or second hand game a week or so back, but that's ok, feel free to keep spewing the same old FUD.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Don't agree with Thom here
by TM99 on Fri 28th Jun 2013 18:08 UTC in reply to "RE: Don't agree with Thom here"
TM99 Member since:
2012-08-26

Are you sure about that?

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/05/21/xbox-one-will-not-function-w...

Again, Microsoft is offering conflicting reports on what can and can't be done with the Xbox One.

That isn't FUD. That is truth. If they can't be straight or keep their facts straight, why should we trust them?

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Don't agree with Thom here
by n4cer on Fri 28th Jun 2013 20:55 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Don't agree with Thom here"
n4cer Member since:
2005-07-06

On Kinect and Privacy
http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/privacy

Change from original licensing model to 360 model
http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/update

Reply Score: 2

BluenoseJake Member since:
2005-08-11

IGN has conflicting reports, what do they know, they aren't MS. I was going to link to the documents, but the previous poster beat me to it.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Don't agree with Thom here
by HangLoose on Sat 29th Jun 2013 11:55 UTC in reply to "RE: Don't agree with Thom here"
HangLoose Member since:
2007-09-03

You mad bra? Better take your meds now.

Reply Score: 1

BluenoseJake Member since:
2005-08-11

Why bring boobs into this? This is about a video game console, no bras to be found.

Reply Score: 3

Problem is ....
by WorknMan on Thu 27th Jun 2013 20:23 UTC
WorknMan
Member since:
2005-11-13

The problem is that very few people (including myself) are going to pay $400+ for a game console, so you'd better make it do something else in addition to playing games. I'm not saying that I'm jazzed about doing searches with Internet Explorer on a split screen while watching TV, but then again... I'm not the majority who watches TV either.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Problem is ....
by jockm on Thu 27th Jun 2013 23:55 UTC in reply to "Problem is ...."
jockm Member since:
2012-12-22

If history is any judge, lots of people are willing to pay $399 and higher for game consoles (just look at what people are willing to pay for bundles, and day one units on ebay). I am not planning on it (arthritis keeps me from being a gamer anymore), and you aren't (for whatever reason), but let us not deny the market

While I have heard lots of wailing and gnashing of teeth about aspects of the XBox One, none of them I know personally were from people who have owned a console in the last few years, or were XBox users — ie lots of Sturm und Drang, but none of it from people who were likely to buy anyway.

I think there is every indication that Microsoft is going to have a very good launch with the XBox One. And the price will come down, and while some will continue to protest certain features and aspects of the console, the odds are that most people won't really remember this stuff six months from now.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Problem is ....
by WorknMan on Fri 28th Jun 2013 00:47 UTC in reply to "RE: Problem is ...."
WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

If history is any judge, lots of people are willing to pay $399 and higher for game consoles (just look at what people are willing to pay for bundles, and day one units on ebay). I am not planning on it (arthritis keeps me from being a gamer anymore), and you aren't (for whatever reason), but let us not deny the market


Please to define 'lots of people'. Certainly not the 90 million or so who bought Wii's last gen. Most people I know who bought a PS3 did so because at the time, it was the only future-proof blu-ray player on the market. The fact that it could play video games was a nice bonus. And the only people I knew that owned a 360 (all 2 of them) were hardcore gamers. Those are the only folks that are going to pay $400+ for a pure game console, and there just aren't that many of them, vs the rest of the population that are sane ;)

Edited 2013-06-28 00:49 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Problem is ....
by jockm on Fri 28th Jun 2013 02:57 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Problem is ...."
jockm Member since:
2012-12-22

Well the XBox 360 launched at $299 AND $399 ( http://www.gamespot.com//news/xbox-360-pricing-revealed-299-and-399... ), where the $399 version was the one with 20G hard drive. Again go look at the bundle prices and day one auction prices, and you will see people were willing to pay a lot more.

But why do you say the XBox One is solely a games console? Because their launch announcements have been emphasizing the One as a multipurpose system that you can play media (from both MS and Netflix, Hulu, et al), use Skype, surf the net, etc. They are selling it as a media center that is also a console.

And finally we get to the problem with anecdotal evidence. The people you know who got the PS3 did so primarily (or so they say) as a Blu-Ray player, but the majority of people I know who got the PS3 did so because they were PS2 owners and were loyal to the sony ecosystem.

Does this mean I think your example is wrong? Of course not. But it does mean that anecdotal evidence is of little use. Objective data rules. I am sure if you go looking you could come up with some solid numbers as to PS3 purchasers intent, and that would be interesting.

But tell me this, are you a gamer? Do you own one of the current generation of consoles? Because if you are not, they you aren't likely in MS's target demographic, right?

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Problem is ....
by jbates on Fri 28th Jun 2013 04:38 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Problem is ...."
jbates Member since:
2013-06-28

I don't know if people are still willing to pay that much. That was 7 years ago, when the graphical jump from Xbox/PS2-gen era to HDTVs and 360/PS3 was immense. It was also before smart phones and tablets. For many people, game consoles and video games were synonymous.

The thing that bugs me about Xbox (360 and One) is how much it reminds me it's not a game console anymore despite the fact that that's all I want to use it for. To get to my game, I have to navigate a labyrinth of multimedia advertisements I care nothing about. Sony's much nicer about keeping that on the side. Advertisements are probably one of the reasons Microsoft wanted to force users to use the Internet.

I'd be much more excited about the possibility of Windows 8 apps on the Xbox One if Microsoft hadn't deprecated XNA out of the blue. C# + XNA is THORUGHLY good for indie game developers. It would make perfect sense for 3rd part media app development to be near-identical to Windows 8 development, but only time will tell if it's an open registration app store.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Problem is ....
by WorknMan on Fri 28th Jun 2013 04:59 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Problem is ...."
WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

But why do you say the XBox One is solely a games console?


I didn't. Thom said the following:

Still don't want a 'media entertainment experience device' though; I want a game console.

I was pointing out that would be a dumb idea to release a pure gaming console at $400+, if you could add more features/media content and attract more buyers. However, this time around they're going to have to do much more than 'it plays Hulu/Netflix/etc), because these days, you can get devices that do that in boxes of Cracker Jacks ;)

But tell me this, are you a gamer?


I don't know what that means, really. Do I play video games? Yes, sometimes. Do I spend hours a day playing games? No. Most people like myself have pretty much moved over to phones and tablets for gaming, but I do own a 3DS as well.

Do you own one of the current generation of consoles? Because if you are not, they you aren't likely in MS's target demographic, right?


I beg to differ. If they were only targeting the 'this game must have a budget of $50 million or it sucks crowd', they wouldn't be bothering with the media/TV stuff. They're trying to attract people like me.

Although with the growing number of 'cord cutters' like me increasing, I think MS is skating where the puck is right now, not where it's going to be in 4-5 years. Like the original Wii shipping without HD support... not a huge deal in 2006, but in the end, I think it came back to bite 'em in the ass, as the 360 ended up being the best-selling console for 12+ months in a row near the end.

Edited 2013-06-28 05:03 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Problem is ....
by jockm on Fri 28th Jun 2013 05:49 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Problem is ...."
jockm Member since:
2012-12-22


I don't know what that means, really. Do I play video games? Yes, sometimes. Do I spend hours a day playing games? No. Most people like myself have pretty much moved over to phones and tablets for gaming, but I do own a 3DS as well.


Then I am hard pressed to find a definition of gamer that fits what you describe.

[q]I beg to differ[/q/]

Except that you are begging a different question. The XBox One as it exists today is aimed primarily at the console owning market. They are trying to grow their market by attracting people with media features, and by attempting to get people to convert from the PSx line. But it is clear they are aiming at traditional gamers, and you are not who they are trying to attract in this initial run.

The One is an expandable device. Just as the 360 has a much broader feature set now than when it launched, the One will grow and expand its. They can skate to where the puck ain't any time they want. I will make no speculations as to if they will succeed or not, but they can.

I personally bet that in the fullness of time we will see multiple versions of the One. We may well see a cheaper version that is aimed at the media consumption market and not so much at game players, we certainly will see new features.

Reply Score: 2

False Dichotomy
by n4cer on Thu 27th Jun 2013 20:44 UTC
n4cer
Member since:
2005-07-06

Still don't want a 'media entertainment experience device' though; I want a game console.


This is a false dichotomy.
Game consoles haven't only played games since the Sega Genesis or, depending on where you draw the often blurred line, some of Atari's systems.

Successful, mainstream consoles have straddled the multimedia line since the Sega CD and Sony PlayStation.

As long as you design for gaming, supporting other scenarios should be seen as a plus. Both the 360 and PS3 have non-gaming app ecosystems. The original Xbox One plans sought to make supporting that ecosystem a less clunky user experience. This brought benefits to the gaming side as well by not requiring a disc to be in the console, arbitrating your access to content, or having to wait for updates to load when you want to play (apps/games update in the background). Instead, you could just switch, at any time, to whatever game you had in your library or app you wanted, even running them simultaneously. The console moves from a modal, mostly single-tasking platform to a multitasking, self managing platform.

Reply Score: 3

RE: False Dichotomy
by UltraZelda64 on Thu 27th Jun 2013 20:59 UTC in reply to "False Dichotomy"
UltraZelda64 Member since:
2006-12-05

This is a false dichotomy.
Game consoles haven't only played games since the Sega Genesis or, depending on where you draw the often blurred line, some of Atari's systems.

What world are you from? Ever hear of the Nintendo 64? GameCube? Even the Dreamcast kept gaming at its core, although it offered a few "non-gaming" features (IIRC often as optional products like the keyboard). You're thinking Sony and Microsoft here. Nintendo is, so far, the only company that is at least trying to keep gaming at their core--but even they are somewhat caving to the pressure these days.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: False Dichotomy
by n4cer on Thu 27th Jun 2013 21:21 UTC in reply to "RE: False Dichotomy"
n4cer Member since:
2005-07-06

Nintendo has all but lost core gamers (some of the very people critical of the Xbox One) by not updating their hardware each generation to support the latest technologies. Nintendo actually helps prove the false dichotomy. They focused mostly on games -- built "game consoles", but are losing gamers and ISVs.


My take on Thom's comment was that it was a reprise of the usual PS4 is a gaming console, Xbox One is not, simply because gaming was not MS' only consideration in developing the platform. Spec-wise, the platforms are comparable. MS didn't just build a media-centric device with little more power than a 360. They updated the gaming technology platform as well. If they didn't do that, Thom's comment would be understandable. As it is, Xbox One is dinged simply for offering flexibility.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: False Dichotomy
by Sodki on Thu 27th Jun 2013 22:05 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: False Dichotomy"
Sodki Member since:
2005-11-10

Nintendo actually helps prove the false dichotomy. They focused mostly on games -- built "game consoles", but are losing gamers and ISVs.


On the contrary. You are right in saying that Nintendo are losing gamers, but Nintendo is also winning on a different level: making gamers out of people who weren't gamers. Wii is, or at least was, sweeping out the casual, family orientated, gaming market, which is huge.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: False Dichotomy
by Nelson on Thu 27th Jun 2013 22:16 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: False Dichotomy"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29


On the contrary. You are right in saying that Nintendo are losing gamers, but Nintendo is also winning on a different level: making gamers out of people who weren't gamers. Wii is, or at least was, sweeping out the casual, family orientated, gaming market, which is huge.


I agree. Nintendo has a great strategy, but maybe a not so great execution.

However this is the exact approach Microsoft is taking with the Xbox One, and the opposite of what Sony is doing.

Microsoft acknowledges that the console market is a low growth market, so they're expanding the capabilities of the Xbox in order to accommodate new markets -- and coincidentally push them further into the living room.

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: False Dichotomy
by jbates on Fri 28th Jun 2013 04:24 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: False Dichotomy"
jbates Member since:
2013-06-28

On the contrary. You are right in saying that Nintendo are losing gamers, but Nintendo is also winning on a different level: making gamers out of people who weren't gamers. Wii is, or at least was, sweeping out the casual, family orientated, gaming market, which is huge.

I'm under the impression that Nintendo sold a ridiculous number of Wii's to people who only played one or two games (Wii Sports, Wii Fit, etc), but then left the thing to collect dust. The casual gaming crowd the Wii catered to has long since moved on to smart phones and tablets. The folks at the senior center who enthusiastically bought a Wii don't have a Wii U now.

Reply Score: 2

Comment by Nelson
by Nelson on Thu 27th Jun 2013 22:20 UTC
Nelson
Member since:
2005-11-29

My problem with the Xbox team is that teasing is useless. Developers are not 5, we don't need to have a lolipop held over our head. Tell us what the hell you're thinking of doing, even if its in a general sense, or shut up.

Come out and say, yes the Xbox One will run Windows 8.1 apps, or at least a modified version of them. Say that it will come at a future time and more details will be released down the road.

If it will be a privileged partner only program say that, if it will be an app store with open registration then say that as well. The last thing they should do is be vague with the developers and software vendors who need to decide direction often months in advance.

The left hand *almost* knows what the right hand is doing. If you think the Windows division was closed, non cooperative, and secretive, the Xbox team is many times worse.

Reply Score: 4

Why
by judgen on Fri 28th Jun 2013 06:48 UTC
judgen
Member since:
2006-07-12

Still i have found no reason to use any metro app, they are generally slower and the interface "gets stuck" rather too often for me even on the PC.

Ok it is cool to not have a BSOD, but when it crashes it least told you what caused it.

Reply Score: 2