Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 3rd Jul 2013 11:23 UTC, submitted by ebasconp
Opera Software Opera 15, the brand new version of Opera based on Chromium and Blink, has been released today. I'm still missing a bookmarks bar and a bookmark import feature. Other than that, I'm really liking Opera 15. I hope they bring those two features back soon, because I cannot use a browser without them.
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at Last!
by ikidunot on Wed 3rd Jul 2013 12:32 UTC
ikidunot
Member since:
2011-06-04

At last, a browser for the total idiot or as they say on the Opera web site: "Just like in Opera for Android,".

I run Opera on a real computer, not a f.....g mobile phone and my life, since I actually have one, does not include facebook or twitter.

The quote "Although most users don't use bookmarks" just goes to prove that Opera has totally lost the plot. Why else would they import a Canonical (Ubuntu) developer to write a bookmark extension which always has been and should remain part of core functionality.

Would someone please reassure me that people are not so dumb as to require this: "you'll notice a radically simpler UI".

please, someone?

Reply Score: 5

RE: at Last!
by twitterfire on Wed 3rd Jul 2013 12:46 UTC in reply to "at Last!"
twitterfire Member since:
2008-09-11

In the general context where everything is being dumbed down for decades - for example media, film industry, the general trend for software is to be dumbed down too.

Probably some guys would love to see a world comprised of idiots, because idiots are easier to be ruled and deceived and they agree to almost anything if you tell the it is for their own good.

Os X was dumbed down from beginning, Ubuntu's UI is dumbed down since Unity, Metro is dumbed down, Ios, too.

The general trend is to make UIs for complete idiots, targeting people with IQs lower than 60 and avoiding to require user to think.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: at Last!
by zima on Wed 10th Jul 2013 22:10 UTC in reply to "RE: at Last!"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

In the general context where everything is being dumbed down for decades - for example media, film industry, the general trend for software is to be dumbed down too.

That's the popular view, ironically. But in reality that's also/largely/mostly a bias of our memory - in the past, there was lots of "dumb" media, music, films, news reporting (really, just go every day through your local 100 year old newspapers; it's horrifying how bad they are) ...it's simply forgotten; we remember mostly the good examples.

Also, http://www.osnews.com/thread?566160

Reply Score: 2

And still no Z-order tab switching
by bhtooefr on Wed 3rd Jul 2013 12:58 UTC
bhtooefr
Member since:
2009-02-19

Seriously, Opera... you can't even get that right?

That said, seems they're still maintaining the 12.x branch for a while... hopefully they fix the horrible crashing on OS X. Or at least make it so that when it restarts itself after a crash, OS X can launch websites (rather than beep at you, or give you an error -600) without manually restarting the whole browser.

Reply Score: 3

Give Opera a chance
by twitterfire on Wed 3rd Jul 2013 13:17 UTC
twitterfire
Member since:
2008-09-11

I didn't use Opera in last years because of lower rendering speed and lack of extensions.

But now that I got fed with Chrome's tracking and spying everything, I going try Opera 15 for a week and switch to it if all is well. Since it switched to Blink rendering engine and already supports lots of extensions, it might be a very good web browser.

Edit: since I'm trying to get rid of google's recording all my online activities, I will also try startpage.com for a week, which is basically google without IP logging, website tracking and with privacy and anonymity added.

Edited 2013-07-03 13:25 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RIP Opera
by Dave_K on Wed 3rd Jul 2013 13:20 UTC
Dave_K
Member since:
2005-11-16

I'm sure Opera 15's a nice alternative for people who like Chrome, but it's barely even related to the browser that I've loved using for over 15 years.

Along with the efficient use of system resources, the thing that set Opera apart for me was the incredibly feature rich and customisable user interface.

Even on my old laptop I could open as many tabs as I liked, and just as important I could strip down Opera's interface to make efficient use of limited space, yet still manage those tabs efficiently.

On my main PC, with a large monitor, I could spread out my pages using MDI (tiling pages side by side, etc.), make full use of the powerful sidebar, customise all my toolbars and menus to my liking, and generally make it fit my preferences perfectly.

What made Opera "Opera" to me was that I could turn it into MY browser, to fit my needs regardless of what I was running it on. It was the one and only browser that allowed this. Firefox doesn't come close, not even with a load of extensions.

Now Opera has become an even more of a stripped down one-size-fits all browser than many of its competitors. In fact, with extensions, Firefox feels much more like Opera than Opera 15 does (not least because many extension developers have copied Opera's built in features).

This isn't a matter of it being a new version that just needs to be developed further. The developers have made it clear that they're creating a stripped down browser to appeal to Chrome fans, not long term Opera users who appreciate its more powerful interface.

Even bookmarks have been declared unnecessary clutter by the developers. They may bow to pressure and put bookmarks in at some point, but the many unique features that made Opera such a flexible browser will not be returning. To me it's like Microsoft completely dropping the classic Windows desktop and expecting everyone to use (the interface formerly known as) Metro.

I'm not saying that this is necessarily a bad move for Opera from a comercial standpoint. Opera has never broken out of its "power user" niche, while Chrome has grown to become the most popular browser. I can understand why they'd try this, but in my opinion it's still a shame that the world of computing has lost a unique, innovative, and powerful piece of software.

I'll keep on using classic Opera for now, but I'll have to think about switching to Firefox as Opera 12 becomes obsolete and insecure. For me web browsing will be a lot less fun and productive without it.

Reply Score: 10

RE: RIP Opera
by jessesmith on Wed 3rd Jul 2013 14:16 UTC in reply to "RIP Opera"
jessesmith Member since:
2010-03-11

This was exactly my thought. I've been using Opera for about 10 years now as my primary browser because it feels like _my_ browser. It's fast, it is flexible and I could shape it to work exactly the way I wanted. It was feature rich, fast and carried a small footprint, but the most important thing was I could turn on/off features as I saw fit and adjust the interface to look the way I wanted it to look. If they throw away the flexibility, the high level of customization then Opera (with the new engine) becomes just a another cheap Chromium rip-off.

Reply Score: 5

RE: RIP Opera
by jazman777 on Wed 3rd Jul 2013 16:00 UTC in reply to "RIP Opera"
jazman777 Member since:
2013-02-27

I too have used Opera for a long time, and have loved how I could make it look exactly how I liked. But that Opera has been utterly eviscerated.

Since Opera 12 is dead browser walking, I've switched to Firefox.

Edited 2013-07-03 16:04 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: RIP Opera
by Dave_K on Wed 3rd Jul 2013 16:19 UTC in reply to "RE: RIP Opera"
Dave_K Member since:
2005-11-16

Since Opera 12 is dead browser walking, I've switched to Firefox.


I don't suppose you've found an extension to switch between tabs using right-mouse-button+scroll-wheel, like in Opera?

The nearest thing I've found is cycling through tabs by rolling the scroll-wheel while the pointer is over the tab bar. In Opera I can turn off the tab bar completely to save space, and still use the pop-up list to switch between tabs. In Opera tab switching follows the recently used tab order too, which I much prefer to using the tab bar order.

It's things like this that are making switching to Firefox an unpleasant experience after so many years using Opera...

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: RIP Opera
by jazman777 on Wed 3rd Jul 2013 16:36 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: RIP Opera"
jazman777 Member since:
2013-02-27

I haven't, the switch has been jarring, to say the least.

Reply Score: 1

RE: RIP Opera
by PresentIt on Fri 5th Jul 2013 18:25 UTC in reply to "RIP Opera"
PresentIt Member since:
2010-02-10

This isn't a matter of it being a new version that just needs to be developed further. The developers have made it clear that they're creating a stripped down browser to appeal to Chrome fans, not long term Opera users who appreciate its more powerful interface.

Actually, it is a matter of being the first version after making a new browser. They'll add more features later, but obviously had to start with something simple and solid.

They made it clear that they want to appeal to Chrome fans? I'd like a link to that statement. Thanks.

Even bookmarks have been declared unnecessary clutter by the developers.

Really? Clutter? Link to statement again, please.

Reply Score: 3

RE: RIP Opera
by MamiyaOtaru on Sat 6th Jul 2013 05:36 UTC in reply to "RIP Opera"
MamiyaOtaru Member since:
2005-11-11

each new version of Opera has made it harder for me to have the look and layout I like, so much so that I switched to Firefox entirely a year or so ago. Now with 15 I feel like I just saved a year ;) Firefox definitely reminds me more of the old Opera than the current Opera does.

Shame really. I was sort of looking forward to per tab processes and better compatibility. I was also looking forward to the use of native UIs (I hated Opera 7 for ditching them). Unfortunately it sounds like they've wrapped it in the most dumbed down browser yet

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: RIP Opera
by PresentIt on Sat 6th Jul 2013 16:31 UTC in reply to "RE: RIP Opera"
PresentIt Member since:
2010-02-10

Unfortunately it sounds like they've wrapped it in the most dumbed down browser yet

Unfortunately it's comments like this that are dumb. Did you really expect them to create a browser from scratch with hundreds of features in just a few months?

Reply Score: 3

Comment by ssokolow
by ssokolow on Wed 3rd Jul 2013 13:26 UTC
ssokolow
Member since:
2010-01-21

Nice. I already test against Chromium, GTKWebKit, and QtWebKit so, now, all I need to do is wait a month or two to confirm that enough users have upgraded from Opera 12 to drive its market share below 1% and I can revoke its exception to my "only open-source code or DRM-free closed-source games on my PC" rule.

Reply Score: 2

Missing features
by puidelup on Wed 3rd Jul 2013 13:33 UTC
puidelup
Member since:
2013-03-19

I'm a looong time Opera user.

If Opera 12 was a swiss army knife, Opera 15 is a spoon.

Might be made with the latest tech, might be pretty, bust still, just a spoon!

Almost everything that made Opera great in my eyes is missing. Settings page is almost empty. can't even independently change proxy settings. ;)

Hope they add all the missing features back soon. I feel like having lost an arm when browsing.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Missing features
by zima on Sat 6th Jul 2013 18:01 UTC in reply to "Missing features"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Realise the truth: there is no spoon ;)

Reply Score: 2

Browser Recommendations for ex-Opera users?
by Dave_K on Wed 3rd Jul 2013 14:55 UTC
Dave_K
Member since:
2005-11-16

I've generally been too content with Opera to seriously look at alternatives, but Opera 15 isn't for me, and Opera 12 will quickly become obsolete. Does anyone have any recommendations for a feature rich and customisable Opera substitute?

Firefox is the obvious alternative thanks to its selection of extensions, and it's the one I've investigated so far. The various vertical tab bars, all-in-one sidebar, tab tiling, integrated notes, etc. can replicate a lot of Opera's functionality.

Unfortunately, even with extensions, there's still a lot of Opera flexibility and customisation missing, and to me relying on extensions is a disadvantage compared with having features built in. Different extensions don't always play well together, and it's hard to know whether crashes are caused by extensions or the browser itself. Of course there's also the problem of extensions being abandoned and broken by newer browser versions...

I know there used to be some Opera copying skins available for IE, but they were never that brilliant (and obviously involved using IE). Does anyone have any other suggestions and recommendations for an Opera refugee?

Reply Score: 2

subsider34 Member since:
2010-11-08

If you're using Windows, look into Pale Moon.

Reply Score: 2

Dave_K Member since:
2005-11-16

I've just been trying Pale Moon, it definitely seems quicker and lighter on resources than Firefox.

I've now found an extension called Pano that mimics Opera's windows panel, and a customisable mouse gestures extension that works quite well, so I'm reasonably happy with that as an Opera substitute.

Reply Score: 2

jazman777 Member since:
2013-02-27

Sleipnir looks worth a look, too. Webkit based.

Reply Score: 2

Good alternative
by kateline on Wed 3rd Jul 2013 15:32 UTC
kateline
Member since:
2011-05-19

Don't use it, never have. But I'm glad to have another free alternative. Nice to have so many free browsers.

Reply Score: 1

Missing features
by Invincible Cow on Wed 3rd Jul 2013 18:10 UTC
Invincible Cow
Member since:
2006-06-24

I think for every user there will be at least 5 critical features missing.

This was a very bad and short-sighted move by Opera. They are trying to compete for 95% of the market. Unfortunately 4+ other browsers also compete for these 95 percents. They should have kept to the last 5% (powerusers) where there is less competition.

Reply Score: 5

RE: Missing features
by Chrispynutt on Fri 5th Jul 2013 13:16 UTC in reply to "Missing features"
Chrispynutt Member since:
2012-03-14

Kind of like how games publishers make their game sequels more like Call of Duty to get more of that market and instead lose the people that liked the original game.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Missing features
by PresentIt on Fri 5th Jul 2013 18:27 UTC in reply to "RE: Missing features"
PresentIt Member since:
2010-02-10

Kind of like how games publishers make their game sequels more like Call of Duty to get more of that market and instead lose the people that liked the original game.

If CoD sells like crazy while other games don't sell at all, can you blame them?

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Missing features
by Chrispynutt on Sat 6th Jul 2013 19:58 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Missing features"
Chrispynutt Member since:
2012-03-14

The point is they did sell, just not COD numbers.

Publishers get greedy and actually lose customers. Because people who want COD can buy COD.

Likewise if people want Chrome, they will get, dun dun dah, Chrome.

I am fed up of software I like being stripped of everything that made it interesting and useful just so the publisher can go after a market that is already amply catered to.

Let me get this clear, I am happy with COD existing, I am happy with Chrome existing. Me toos not so much.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Missing features
by PresentIt on Sun 7th Jul 2013 20:02 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Missing features"
PresentIt Member since:
2010-02-10

Sigh.

"Stripped browser" is not automatically == Chrome.

What's the point in making a browser (or game) hardly anyone wants to use?

Reply Score: 2

RE: Missing features
by PresentIt on Fri 5th Jul 2013 18:26 UTC in reply to "Missing features"
PresentIt Member since:
2010-02-10

I think for every user there will be at least 5 critical features missing.

Guess that's the problem. Opera 12 is a mess. Extremely complex and probably a nightmare to maintain.

They should have kept to the last 5% (powerusers) where there is less competition.

Unfortunately, power users were already moving to Chrome.

Reply Score: 3

Not too thrilled.
by UltraZelda64 on Wed 3rd Jul 2013 19:23 UTC
UltraZelda64
Member since:
2006-12-05

Fast release cycle? Radically simpler UI? Fuck... here we go again. Chrome and Firefox all over again. I do intend to try it, but I am not happy with yet another browser using Chrome ideas. I was hoping they would "Opera-ify" Chrome (add advanced and unique features Opera is known for), but instead it looks like it's just going to be a re-branding.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Not too thrilled.
by ebasconp on Wed 3rd Jul 2013 21:38 UTC in reply to "Not too thrilled."
ebasconp Member since:
2006-05-09

Patience, I still have faith that they will Opera-ify Chromium soon.

Actually I prefer the more-native-look-and-feel of Opera 15 that the Chrome one.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Not too thrilled.
by UltraZelda64 on Wed 3rd Jul 2013 21:47 UTC in reply to "RE: Not too thrilled."
UltraZelda64 Member since:
2006-12-05

I hope so, but their marketing page doesn't exactly leave me with much confidence.

Reply Score: 4

rklrkl
Member since:
2005-07-06

Strange no-one's mentioned what happened to Opera 13 and 14 :-) We jumped from Opera 12.16 to 15.0 and not a word from anyone about that?

Never mind that Opera 15 doesn't exist yet for Linux, which is still stuck on 12.16. Nope, no-one else seemed to notice that either...

Reply Score: 2

dnebdal Member since:
2008-08-27

I believe 14 was the first android version with the webkit engine, and 15 was numbered so it'd match the next release of that.

They skipped 13, supposedly because some markets and/or developer groups still find the number very unlucky.

Reply Score: 2