Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 11th Jul 2013 15:44 UTC
PDAs, Cellphones, Wireless In its struggle to find willing customers, Nokia just announced yet another flagship phone - the Nokia Lumia 1020. It's essentially a Lumia 920/925, but with the Nokia 808's PureView camera bolted on. Also, it's exclusive to AT&T in the US, for $299 with a two year contract, which is a steep price. So, who gets the honour to be the first to claim that this, yes this Lumia will turn Nokia around?
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Naming scheme?
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Thu 11th Jul 2013 15:54 UTC
Bill Shooter of Bul
Member since:
2006-07-14

Is there some logic to the version numbers or do they just increment it by some random amount for each phone? Do they always have a two in the second position? Like Generation/market_position/carrier maybe? 10=> 10th gen, 2 => "flagship", 0=> att?

At what point do they stop? lumia 10020?

Reply Score: 2

RE: Naming scheme?
by Nelson on Thu 11th Jul 2013 16:23 UTC in reply to "Naming scheme? "
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

Last Gen it was X10 eg. 610, 710
This Gen its X20. 620, 720, 820, 920
with a variation on that for carriers 925, 928, 822, etc

Contrary to Thoms snark, I don't think this single model will save Nokia, but it will certainly help. The 520 seems to be based on analytics the most popular Windows Phone so no, a high end phone isn't going to save them completely.

However, Nokias financials come out on the 19th, so Thoms own clinical inability to praise Nokia for a single thing aside (despite dramatic improvements to the camera sensor over even the 808-- which he'd know if he saw the keynote) we are going to know a lot more about what exactly is saving Nokia in a few days.

Edited 2013-07-11 16:23 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Naming scheme?
by HangLoose on Thu 11th Jul 2013 16:40 UTC in reply to "RE: Naming scheme? "
HangLoose Member since:
2007-09-03

Elop is not only counting on that but also in Nokia's color story.

What a buffoon he is.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Naming scheme?
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Thu 11th Jul 2013 17:17 UTC in reply to "RE: Naming scheme? "
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

That's a lot of models 62x,72x,82x,92x,102x per generation. Is the global smartphone market really that segmented that there needs to be five tiers of smartphones? That's surprising. Other manufacturers might be doing the same thing, but without the unified naming scheme.

Its kind of reminiscent of the US car model names in the 1960's

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Naming scheme?
by cdude on Thu 11th Jul 2013 18:46 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Naming scheme? "
cdude Member since:
2008-09-21

You forgot the 52x. Also its all the same phone with slightly different specs. Only one model in over 2 years. Boring.

Edited 2013-07-11 18:46 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE: Naming scheme?
by fretinator on Thu 11th Jul 2013 16:24 UTC in reply to "Naming scheme? "
fretinator Member since:
2005-07-06

At what point do they stop? lumia 10020?


After the 21st person buys one.

Reply Score: 7

RE: Naming scheme?
by bentoo on Thu 11th Jul 2013 16:37 UTC in reply to "Naming scheme? "
bentoo Member since:
2012-09-21

Versus meaningless monikers like Ace, Exhibit, Fame, Pocket Neo, Rush, Star, Young, etc.? Sure, these numbers are so confusing. :|

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Naming scheme?
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Thu 11th Jul 2013 17:24 UTC in reply to "RE: Naming scheme? "
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

That's just it, they aren't numbers. Look at cars, I'm used to models not necessarily indicating any performance or cost differences. Just by the name, I can't tell you if a mustang is better or worse than a fusion. But when you start throwing numbers at me, I want to see a pattern in them. Maybe that's just the math geek in me, but I'd think that even people who hate math would do the same.

In the same line I was kind of disappointed that gateway computers never issued a gateway 2001. I mean come on.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Naming scheme?
by lucas_maximus on Thu 11th Jul 2013 19:13 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Naming scheme? "
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

I defintely know what you mean. I think they are numbered more like peugeot numbers their car models.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Naming scheme?
by StephenBeDoper on Sat 13th Jul 2013 18:31 UTC in reply to "Naming scheme? "
StephenBeDoper Member since:
2005-07-06

Is there some logic to the version numbers or do they just increment it by some random amount for each phone? Do they always have a two in the second position? Like Generation/market_position/carrier maybe? 10=> 10th gen, 2 => "flagship", 0=> att?

At what point do they stop? lumia 10020?


"In the Lumia 2525,
If Nokia is still alive,
If Windows Phone can survive..."

Reply Score: 2

PureView 808 augmented ?
by Kochise on Thu 11th Jul 2013 16:53 UTC
Kochise
Member since:
2006-03-03

Several reviews noted that, while the 808 was one kind of a famous and impressive piece of a device, the phone was, well, a phone, to begin with. The point of having such a 41M CCD was more of a technological breakthrough than really a useful device. Especially considering the ridiculous screen resolution (640*360) and the aging Symbian OS served with a mono core 1 GHz CPU staged with 512 MB of RAM.

Would the Lumia 10000020000 address these issues there might be some interest into the product that would become more mainstream than an already EOL product such like the 808.

Backed with a FullHD screen and a nicely crafted Android 4.3 OS, that would put it.

What ? What's wrong ? Oh, sorry, they are pushing their EOL Windows Phone again. Not for me then...

Kochise

Reply Score: 2

RE: PureView 808 augmented ?
by Deviate_X on Thu 11th Jul 2013 17:59 UTC in reply to "PureView 808 augmented ?"
Deviate_X Member since:
2005-07-11

Several reviews noted that, while the 808 was one kind of a famous and impressive piece of a device, the phone was, well, a phone, to begin with. The point of having such a 41M CCD was more of a technological breakthrough than really a useful device. Especially considering the ridiculous screen resolution (640*360) and the aging Symbian OS served with a mono core 1 GHz CPU staged with 512 MB of RAM.

Would the Lumia 10000020000 address these issues there might be some interest into the product that would become more mainstream than an already EOL product such like the 808.

Backed with a FullHD screen and a nicely crafted Android 4.3 OS, that would put it.

What ? What's wrong ? Oh, sorry, they are pushing their EOL Windows Phone again. Not for me then...

Kochise


I suspect the Lumia 1020 is a devcice intended for people who would rank the break-through camera tech highly, ... above being thin, or ultra light. Its a 41 megapixel camera! This is not trivial tech! its not for mobile-os fanbois

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: PureView 808 augmented ?
by Nelson on Thu 11th Jul 2013 18:38 UTC in reply to "RE: PureView 808 augmented ?"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

I'm personally waiting for a variant which is thinner and lighter, but its true the 1020 is a niche device. The 41MP sensor may have draw and will make it easier to market in spec wars though, so who knows.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: PureView 808 augmented ?
by cdude on Thu 11th Jul 2013 19:09 UTC in reply to "RE: PureView 808 augmented ?"
cdude Member since:
2008-09-21

its not for mobile-os fanbois


But is it wise to focus[1], at times where Nokia needs volume most[2], on a small potential target group[3] and ignore mobile[4]-fanbois? Skeptical at best[5].

[1] http://news.yahoo.com/nokia-bet-lumias-camera-upgrade-overcome-budg... + AT&T Lumia flagship.
[2] http://seekingalpha.com/article/1469261-will-nokia-make-a-turnaroun...
[3] photo camera market grow is near flat recent years + lesser/cheaper/smaller MP-phones that 'are enough for most users' are available since a long time + compare with 808 sales-volume where 808 had the early and last advantages.
[4] Mobile first
[5] From [1]: "Analysts, however, are skeptical that a new camera for the flagship Lumia smartphone will be enough for the Finnish company to regain market share"

Edited 2013-07-11 19:17 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: PureView 808 augmented ?
by Nelson on Thu 11th Jul 2013 19:16 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: PureView 808 augmented ?"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

I'm curious, wise cdude, how will Nokia's Q2 look?

Reply Score: 2

RE: PureView 808 augmented ?
by manjabes on Fri 12th Jul 2013 05:57 UTC in reply to "PureView 808 augmented ?"
manjabes Member since:
2005-08-27

Several reviews noted that, while the 808 was one kind of a famous and impressive piece of a device, the phone was, well, a phone, to begin with. The point of having such a 41M CCD was more of a technological breakthrough than really a useful device. Especially considering the ridiculous screen resolution (640*360) and the aging Symbian OS served with a mono core 1 GHz CPU staged with 512 MB of RAM.


Jesus, would you please stop preaching to this "aging Symbian" choir already? It's almost two years since the Burning Platform, and the "non-burning" one is still nowhere near feature parity (==usefulness) with the old Symbian. It's still only a pretty picture on a touchscreen and looks to stay that way at least for half a year (until WP Blue or whatever that major upgrade will be...).

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: PureView 808 augmented ?
by Kochise on Fri 12th Jul 2013 06:40 UTC in reply to "RE: PureView 808 augmented ?"
Kochise Member since:
2006-03-03

Belle came late. And what's selling is Android, Symbian no more. Live with it. I recon Symbian being a nice OS, but it lacks multimedia orientation, is difficult to code for.

Kochise

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: PureView 808 augmented ?
by manjabes on Fri 12th Jul 2013 08:09 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: PureView 808 augmented ?"
manjabes Member since:
2005-08-27

I grant you that, the Symbian C++ dialect was suicide-provoking, but things were moving in the right direction with Qt. The current "solution" still lacks even some basic telephony stuff and screams to anyone that bothers to listen that "I was designed by a gang of Steve Jobs wannabes".

Reply Score: 1

There is always Hope
by slashdev on Thu 11th Jul 2013 16:56 UTC
slashdev
Member since:
2006-05-14

I am a big nokia fanboy. That said, I havent owned a nokia phone since my first smartphone, the 3650 (i did have a 770 tablet...). I am currently looking at the Nokia 512 for my Mother (free music, downloadable maps for GPS, at $150? all win for someone coming from a feature phone)

This 1020 is exciting. Being on AT&T exclusively will keep me away unfortunately. Did Nokia not read the memo that apple might have won the phone wars had they not stuck to AT&T for so long and allowed android to flourish?

And there is an another uncomfortable subject that most manufacturers (sony, HTC, and nokia) dont like to speak about, battery life, I've been spoiled with really good battery life on the Razer Maxx (and my current device the Galaxy Note 2). Having to not have to plug your phone in for 2-3 days (or more) is so liberating that I dont see myself going back to halve day use. It sad to see that Nokia seems to be staying out of the uber battery battle and ceding it to Samsung and Motorola.

/Rant

Reply Score: 2

RE: There is always Hope
by bentoo on Thu 11th Jul 2013 17:03 UTC in reply to "There is always Hope"
bentoo Member since:
2012-09-21

It sad to see that Nokia seems to be staying out of the uber battery battle and ceding it to Samsung and Motorola. /Rant


WP doesn't typically need a 3300mAH battery to last more than a day.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: There is always Hope
by No it isnt on Thu 11th Jul 2013 17:37 UTC in reply to "RE: There is always Hope"
No it isnt Member since:
2005-11-14

Neither does anything else, if you don't use it.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: There is always Hope
by slashdev on Thu 11th Jul 2013 18:04 UTC in reply to "RE: There is always Hope"
slashdev Member since:
2006-05-14


WP doesn't typically need a 3300mAH battery to last more than a day.



I think the misunderstanding is workloads. Please look at an engadget or gsmarena battery test. For medium workloads (which is what i do, daily), Windows Phone 8 does really poorly. I also use GPS extensively on foot, on a bike and while driving (sometimes in the same day!) and with my Maxx and Note 2, I can do moderate GPS use, occasional video use, a bit of gaming, some kindle reading, podcast listening, music, web surfing, background chat services, 2-3 hours of talk and news services, for 2-3 days without needing a recharge (The maxx does the best for me, but i am leaving verizon). Windows phone 8 does have great powersaving features, but screen, mp3 decoding, video decoding, GPS use are largely hardware driven, and the OS really can only help so much when you are actually doing something on the phone.


While I havent bought a nokia in awhile, I do have Windows phones. I have an Dell Venue Pro (WP7), an HTC 8x (WP8). I have them for development purposes.


http://blog.gsmarena.com/htc-windows-phone-8x-flunks-battery-test-r...

http://blog.gsmarena.com/nokia-lumia-920-goes-through-our-battery-t...

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: There is always Hope
by Nelson on Thu 11th Jul 2013 18:37 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: There is always Hope"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

GPS is a battery killer, my phone won't make it half the day with it on. Thats unsurprising. I do think the 920 has poor battery life and a horrible weight which is why its good to see the 1020 manage to be lighter than a 920 packed with a 41MP sensor

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: There is always Hope
by slashdev on Fri 12th Jul 2013 00:27 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: There is always Hope"
slashdev Member since:
2006-05-14

GPS is a battery killer, my phone won't make it half the day with it on. Thats unsurprising. I do think the 920 has poor battery life and a horrible weight which is why its good to see the 1020 manage to be lighter than a 920 packed with a 41MP sensor


Yes. I was shocked that the 920 was so big, yet the battery was so small. It had to do with the wireless recharging. If i was nokia, i would have built a wireless recharging jacket for the 920 and shrank the phone (or added a much bigger battery for the space).


/BatteryRant
Just a side note, My Droid Maxx has a 3300mah battery and is thinner than just about every phone at 8.99 mm (For reference, the 920 has a 2000mah battery and is 10.7 mm!! Xperia Z has a 2330mah, and is 7.9mm!!). The Maxx showed that you could have good battery life, and a small phone. Unfortunately i am leaving verizon for tmobile, so the next best thing is the giant Galaxy Note 2...I am holding out hope that Motorola releases a Maxx class phone on other carriers (Moto X Maxx?)

/BatteryRant

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: There is always Hope
by LaceySnr on Fri 12th Jul 2013 04:48 UTC in reply to "RE: There is always Hope"
LaceySnr Member since:
2009-09-28

I regularly get two full days out of my Lumia 920 (which is now 8 months old), and that's using it to Stream from Spotify over 4G to and from work, with bluetooth and wifi permanently turned on.

The Nokia battery life is a breath of fresh air after years on HTC Android devices.

Reply Score: 2

RE: There is always Hope
by zima on Thu 18th Jul 2013 22:40 UTC in reply to "There is always Hope"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Did Nokia not read the memo that apple might have won the phone wars had they not stuck to AT&T for so long and allowed android to flourish?

There's more to it than just the US market; US represents only 5% of the world population.

In most places around the world, iPhone wasn't limited to one carrier - and yet Android flourishes even more outside the US.

Reply Score: 2

Not for all-day camera use
by chithanh on Thu 11th Jul 2013 18:56 UTC
chithanh
Member since:
2006-06-18

Again, Nokia has failed to produce a high-end phone with microSD slot and replaceable battery.

This is particularly difficult to understand in light of the the 41MP/1080p camera, which will drain the battery and fill up the internal storage.

Not to mention the lack of quad-core CPU and 1080p screen, which will certainly not go well with the spec crowd.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Not for all-day camera use
by Nelson on Thu 11th Jul 2013 19:15 UTC in reply to "Not for all-day camera use"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

There's a battery add on to extend battery life. Snaps on to the back.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Not for all-day camera use
by chithanh on Thu 11th Jul 2013 21:03 UTC in reply to "RE: Not for all-day camera use"
chithanh Member since:
2006-06-18

You mean the camera grip? That will make the phone larger and heavier.

Plus it is $79, a far cry from the $15 you pay for a Galaxy S4 battery. So not an option if you want to buy several of them for extended photo sessions.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Not for all-day camera use
by Nelson on Thu 11th Jul 2013 21:12 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Not for all-day camera use"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

Honestly, how much continuous battery life do you need? I'm fairy certain you'll be well into the end of the day even without the extended pack, so why wouldn't you have a charger before then?

I see your point with the weight, but the battery likely contributes greatly to this. A compromise of the unibody design is the non removable battery.

Reply Score: 3

slashdev Member since:
2006-05-14

Honestly, how much continuous battery life do you need?


This is an interesting question. Being an early android supporter/adopter (G1 and on) i'd always said the same thing to people coming from feature phones. Just plug the thing in! But after owning the Maxx for a year I have completely changed my mind about that. For years, my smartphone battery gauge basically ruled my life; wake up "did i plug in my smart phone? No? doh!", get to work "Did i plug in my smart phone while driving?" No? doh!, At work "I need to find an outlet! do i take my phone to a meeting to snap a pic of the whiteboard, but if i do, its not charging...Oh, we're are going on site, should I bring my phone, leave it charging? etc.." and on and on. (It didnt help that my pre-Maxx phone, the G2x was so power hungry that using the GPS while being plugged in to a car charger would only keep the phone at its current charge level...something that needs to be experienced to believe)

I had no idea I was basically tethered to a wall socket, until the Maxx. After a few weeks i felt liberated. I'd get home, and the smart phone battery wasnt a priority (i'd be on calls, reading books, listening to podcasts while going to the grocery...) , go to work, who cares if its charged? I'll charge it when i get back home...maybe. I'd take it to meetings for snapping pictures, taking notes, use the GPS and not even have it in the car charger. No thoughts about plugging in the phone. (just a note, I am one of the early early cord cutters, I have not had a home phone/land line for 8 years)

I was finally untethered from the wall socket. I now am sold. A person should not have to compromise good battery life over other features in their phone. The Maxx proved that. Super thin, small profile (4.3" screen), kevlar back. The Galaxy note 2 isnt half bad either, but boy is it big.

So to answer your question (after pontificating all over the place, sorry!), The question shouldnt even be asked, its a false choice. The answer is your mobile phone, should be as MOBILE as possible, the lower the amount of time you are tethered to a wall socket, the better your experience with being MOBILE will be. (Just wait till we get reusable fuel cells that last weeks)

Reply Score: 4

RE[5]: Not for all-day camera use
by Nelson on Fri 12th Jul 2013 01:09 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Not for all-day camera use"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

All great points, can't really argue with any of them. I think what Moto did with the RAZR is interesting. Differentiating on battery life. I wonder why others haven't followed suit.

Reply Score: 3

manjabes Member since:
2005-08-27

And how is that different from http://www.tmrepository.com/trademarks/youdontneedthat/ ?
Please, don't drop that low, you have proven here, that You can do better than that.

edit:
btw, my E52 with the aging and creaking symbian could do a full day with GPS, music, calls and some mobile data. The fancy & shiny 820 doesn't even come close

Edited 2013-07-12 06:01 UTC

Reply Score: 2

Uninteresting++
by Lava_Croft on Thu 11th Jul 2013 20:59 UTC
Lava_Croft
Member since:
2006-12-24

The only interesting things coming out of Nokia these days are the Asha devices.

Shoulda stuck with OSSO, dumbo.

Reply Score: 0

Neat device
by tylerdurden on Fri 12th Jul 2013 17:44 UTC
tylerdurden
Member since:
2009-03-17

I really liked the camera HW and the software apps nokia has developed for it. And although I really like Nokia's industrial design language for their lumias, I still feel their screens are too small (same device size as the top of the line Androids, but with a much smaller screen real state). The rest of the phone (processing platform and OS) is still subpar IMO.

But at least Nokia has a "halo" phone out, and a much better executed camera-as-a-phone concept than the monstrosities Samsung has put out.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Neat device
by Nelson on Fri 12th Jul 2013 20:03 UTC in reply to "Neat device"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

I'm getting tired of the pure polycarbonate TBH, I think the Lumia 925 looks pretty awesome.

What I'd do is making it aluminum like the 925 (for weight, thinness, and attractiveness) while keeping the back of it polycarbonate but just allowing color selection.

Make the back removable and interchangeable, in turn also the battery, and throw in a well executed SD slot.

A phone like this without an SD slot doesn't make sense. The most exciting thing about the 1020 to me is that the updated variants for other carriers will be better.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Neat device
by tylerdurden on Fri 12th Jul 2013 22:40 UTC in reply to "RE: Neat device"
tylerdurden Member since:
2009-03-17

I personally do not mind plastic, if the construction is solid enough to not need a protective case. In fact I prefer it over scratchable(sic) metal.

Given nokia's track record thus far, the "improvements" of the 1020 platform for other carriers will be minor tweaks (mainly exterior). The 920/925/928 are basically the same platform. IMO I don't think it's a very good strategy, but then again it's not my company to run.

In spite of some flaws (no device is perfect anyways) I really like this model specially since I would love to get rid of the need to carry a point and shoot camera for certain occasions, however WP does not fit my needs. I'd wait and see what Sony is doing with their Honami, alas they too are screwing up their approach to the American market (where I operate my cell phone).

Reply Score: 3