Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sat 31st Aug 2013 19:22 UTC
PDAs, Cellphones, Wireless

Earlier today, several top designers at HTC were arrested in Taipei under suspicion of fraudulent expense claims, as well as stealing trade secrets ahead of leaving the company to run a new mobile design firm in both Taiwan and mainland China. Five people were interrogated, with the most notable ones being Vice President of Product Design Thomas Chien, R&D director Wu Chien Hung and design team senior manager Justin Huang (who also personally sketched out the One's design). Chien and Wu are taken into custody, whereas the others were released on bail. Their offices were also raided yesterday as part of the investigation.

HTC certainly looks like a sinking ship, doesn't it?

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Oh boy
by p13. on Sat 31st Aug 2013 19:36 UTC
p13.
Member since:
2005-07-10

Things are getting ugly.
I wonder what they think they can get out of this, anyway. Companies throwing lawsuits at other companies is one thing, but going after people individually isn't going to do anything for them.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Oh boy
by kaiwai on Mon 2nd Sep 2013 09:06 UTC in reply to "Oh boy"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

Things are getting ugly.
I wonder what they think they can get out of this, anyway. Companies throwing lawsuits at other companies is one thing, but going after people individually isn't going to do anything for them.


If you as a company are literally funding your competition because a lax of security then you really have to ask why even invest in R&D in the first place. End of the day though it shouldn't have taken until a crisis for HTC to step up and stop the leaking - seems to be a habit for companies to wait till things get really bad before they wake up and do something about something they probably always knew existed.

As for me I'm an HTC One fanboy and pretty damn happy with it but miss steps by management doesn't change the fact that it'll be a tough climb for HTC even if they are delivering what I'd consider superior products to what Samsung is doing. As for the haters replying in the below threads - name calling and making assumptions as to why people purchase a product is hardly contributing constructively to the over all discussion.

Reply Score: 5

v Trade secrets
by WorknMan on Sat 31st Aug 2013 19:44 UTC
RE: Trade secrets
by p13. on Sat 31st Aug 2013 19:57 UTC in reply to "Trade secrets"
p13. Member since:
2005-07-10

HTC's trade secret - 'color it silver and make it aluminum, and we can sell a crapton based on its sex appeal, for shallow people looking for a fashion accessory to show off to their friends.'


If people want to pay more for the materials, then that's up to them. Clearly you don't, and that's up to you.
Saying only shallow people buy HTC products is ... near sighted.
I own a macbook pro, i like the design. I've owned HTC phones because i liked the design. Really, in a sea of android clones ... design might be the only REAL differentiating factor. But maybe that's just me.
I don't like samsung products for example, because they feel like fisher price in my hands.

When buying a phone, these are the things i look at (in order):
- Will it run CyanogenMod?
- Design/quality
- Specs

Specs last, because they're all stupid fast anyway.

Maybe it is just me. Clearly the market has spoken.

Edited 2013-08-31 19:59 UTC

Reply Score: 7

v RE[2]: Trade secrets
by WorknMan on Sat 31st Aug 2013 22:04 UTC in reply to "RE: Trade secrets"
RE[3]: Trade secrets
by WereCatf on Sat 31st Aug 2013 22:50 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Trade secrets"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

Please tell me how that is superior design?


He didn't say it is "superior design."

There's an entire home screen filled with vendor bloatware that (last I checked) you can't get rid of without a launcher. Or the huge black bar on the bottom of the screen for legacy apps.


Maybe you aren't aware of the fact that some people like that stuff. On the other hand, there is also a HTC One - version that ships with stock Android, just like e.g. the Nexuses, so your point is totally moot.

The phone itself is heavier than the S4.


Oh my god, it weighs like a few GOD DAMN GRAMS more! The horror! You must have really fragile arms or something.

It has sharper edges, which makes it less comfortable to hold than the S4.


Matter of taste.

Plus, it doesn't have the SD card slot or the removable battery


Not everyone cares about those. You may enjoy your own navel, but don't make the mistake of assuming that your tastes are what everyone else should also adopt.

but in the end, it all comes down to one thing - aluminum. If this thing were plastic like the S4, it wouldn't have sold 5 units. So I say, shallow ;)


I'd say it's quite fucking normal to buy stuff that looks pleasing to one's eyes.

Reply Score: 7

RE[4]: Trade secrets
by WorknMan on Sun 1st Sep 2013 02:05 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Trade secrets"
WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

He didn't say it is "superior design."


He inferred it, and a lot of people have stated it outright. But as I have demonstrated, it's a bunch of BS. They don't like the design of the HTC One - they like the aluminum.

I'd say it's quite fucking normal to buy stuff that looks pleasing to one's eyes.


Maybe I'm just being naive, but I could've swore there used to be a day where it took more than 'sex appeal' to sell gadgets, but I guess those days are long gone. Which goes back to my original post:

HTC's trade secret - 'color it silver and make it aluminum, and we can sell a crapton based on its sex appeal, for shallow people looking for a fashion accessory to show off to their friends.'

Because in the end, it's all about the exterior, since millions of fucktards out there care more about what color a device comes in than anything else. That's why Motorola is making the Moto X in wood; customization where it really matters to iDiots. Ultimately, I blame Apple for this nonsense, but it was HTC who brought it to the Android world... pimping the aluminum as the #1 selling point of the phone.

Reply Score: 1

RE[5]: Trade secrets
by woegjiub on Sun 1st Sep 2013 12:10 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Trade secrets"
woegjiub Member since:
2008-11-25

It was pointed out quite clearly:
All android phones are basically identical these days.
Narrow them down to the ones that can run cyanogenmod, then pick the sexiest.

Because, really, apart from how they look, there is no difference at all.



Unless you're me, in which case you just sit there waiting for the droid 5.

Reply Score: 4

RE[6]: Trade secrets
by WorknMan on Sun 1st Sep 2013 21:50 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Trade secrets"
WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

Because, really, apart from how they look, there is no difference at all.


LOL, you're kidding, right? Even the stability of CM can vary from phone to phone, and from version to version. I know from experience that it doesn't run rock solid on every phone that it supports. It is certainly not the last word in custom roms, esp since there are roms much better than CM on some phones.

That being said, there are other factors as well, such as how heavy a phone is, how comfortable it is to hold (whether you have small or large hands), the camera, the battery life, the size of storage, the quality of the screen and antenna, the durability of construction, SD slot/removable battery options, varying amounts of acessory availability (do you want a phone that doesn't have a decent desktop dock available for it?), and a number of other factors.

Of course, none of this matters to most people, if you can get one made out of wood (or whatever) and/or have your name engraved on it.

Edited 2013-09-01 21:51 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: Trade secrets
by woegjiub on Sun 1st Sep 2013 22:56 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Trade secrets"
woegjiub Member since:
2008-11-25

Then, narrow it to ones that work well with CM.

Everything else you listed is approximately equal for the high-end phones, apart from sd/battery removability/accessory availability.

The SD is an issue if you have a large music collection, so that's fair, but accessories come awhile after initial launch, and are directly influenced by how well the phone sells. Which, for the mass public, depends largely upon how it looks and has been advertised, because most people seem to just want their facebook and angry birds to work.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Trade secrets
by p13. on Sun 1st Sep 2013 18:46 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Trade secrets"
p13. Member since:
2005-07-10

"He didn't say it is "superior design."


He inferred it, and a lot of people have stated it outright. But as I have demonstrated, it's a bunch of BS. They don't like the design of the HTC One - they like the aluminum.
"

No, i did not. I'm sorry, perhaps this is quite inconvenient to your cause.
I pick what to buy based on my own personal preferences, not yours.

As for the design vs materials. There is no separating the two. Materials are an integral part of the design. If they made a car out of lead, i would say that's a clear design choice ... wouldn't you? It also wouldn't be much good, due to poor design choices.

The HTC one is well designed, in large part due to the materials it's made of. And as i've said before, this is one of just three criteria on which i base my next phone purchase.

Reply Score: 1

RE[6]: Trade secrets
by WorknMan on Sun 1st Sep 2013 22:00 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Trade secrets"
WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

As for the design vs materials. There is no separating the two. Materials are an integral part of the design.


Well, if you have a plastic phone, a wood phone, and an aluminum phone, and one is about as durable as the others, then I would say this design choice is quite irrelevant, esp since the HTC One has a few other design flaws (which I previously mentioned) working against it. And certainly not worth mentioning at the very top of their marketing pitch. With this design choice, they're going after people who need a phone for a fashion accessory; the aluminum doesn't exist for any other reason.

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: Trade secrets
by p13. on Mon 2nd Sep 2013 04:17 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Trade secrets"
p13. Member since:
2005-07-10

"As for the design vs materials. There is no separating the two. Materials are an integral part of the design.


Well, if you have a plastic phone, a wood phone, and an aluminum phone, and one is about as durable as the others, then I would say this design choice is quite irrelevant, esp since the HTC One has a few other design flaws (which I previously mentioned) working against it. And certainly not worth mentioning at the very top of their marketing pitch. With this design choice, they're going after people who need a phone for a fashion accessory; the aluminum doesn't exist for any other reason.
"

You seem to be unable, or unwilling, to comprehend the simple fact that people tend to simply buy what they like.
I like aluminum as a material. I like the look and feel of it. The fact that this phone is made from aluminium, and not whipped cream is a clear design choice. Whether you agree or not is only relevant to yourself, not me. I don't like chintzy plastic. A wood phone might also be interesting, i don't know.

Bottom line is this ...

Y u so mad?

Seriously? What are you ranting about here? People buy what they like. I happen to dislike the cheap plasticky feel of samsung products.

Perhaps you should write some sort of angry letter to someone. Maybe you'll feel better after that. Be sure to include brands like BMW and Mercedes in the list. Tell them to stop making luxury cars out of premium materials, since it doesn't make sense. Be sure to argue the point that preference has nothing to do with it. They should make the entire dashboard out of cheap and nasty polycarbonate with some ugly oil paint over it.

Still don't get it?

You like what you like, i like what i like. I can assure you that fashion has nothing to do with it.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Trade secrets
by Soulbender on Mon 2nd Sep 2013 07:35 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Trade secrets"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Maybe I'm just being naive, but I could've swore there used to be a day where it took more than 'sex appeal' to sell gadgets


It's not all it takes but it certainly help sales. That has always been the case and it applies to pretty much all consumer products.

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: Trade secrets
by Laurence on Mon 2nd Sep 2013 13:18 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Trade secrets"
Laurence Member since:
2007-03-26

Oh my god, it weighs like a few GOD DAMN GRAMS more! The horror! You must have really fragile arms or something.


lol

Though I have to say, I actually like the fact that HTC phones are heavier than their Samsung counterparts. It feels more substantial - sturdier and better quality.

Of course this is all just dumb user psychology and I wouldn't ever base my purchase on such things. But, for me at least, it's a nice bonus.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Trade secrets
by Morgan on Sun 1st Sep 2013 01:28 UTC in reply to "RE: Trade secrets"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

The problem with the brushed metal design of many HTC phones is the same as with Apple laptops and DeLorean cars: Brushed metal shows off the tiniest defects. I currently have an HTC phone on loan from a friend, and I have to hide its beautiful body in a dog-ugly rubberized case to avoid scratching or denting the finish. My trusty old phone, an HTC Arrive (kept as a backup for my wife) never was in a case and it has been scratched to hell and back.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Trade secrets
by 0brad0 on Sat 31st Aug 2013 22:47 UTC in reply to "Trade secrets"
0brad0 Member since:
2007-05-05

for shallow people looking for a fashion accessory to show off to their friends.'


That seems to work well with Apple products.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Trade secrets
by darknexus on Sun 1st Sep 2013 00:56 UTC in reply to "RE: Trade secrets"
darknexus Member since:
2008-07-15

"for shallow people looking for a fashion accessory to show off to their friends.'


That seems to work well with Apple products.
"
True, but at least Apple products have some additional uses aside from status-seeking idiots showing them off. There's a reason you see Apple more than Android among the business and professional crowd, and it's not because of fashion. Having used both iOS and Android as well as others, I can say that productivity apps are far more plentiful on iOS than on Android, as are productivity-oriented accessories.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Trade secrets
by 0brad0 on Sun 1st Sep 2013 17:03 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Trade secrets"
0brad0 Member since:
2007-05-05


True, but at least Apple products have some additional uses aside from status-seeking idiots showing them off. There's a reason you see Apple more than Android among the business and professional crowd, and it's not because of fashion. Having used both iOS and Android as well as others, I can say that productivity apps are far more plentiful on iOS than on Android, as are productivity-oriented accessories.


LOL. You're too funny. Ya, that's it "productivity apps".

Reply Score: 2

RE: Trade secrets
by Soulbender on Sun 1st Sep 2013 13:00 UTC in reply to "Trade secrets"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Sounds familiar, kinda like:
'color it black and make give it round corners, and we can sell a crapton based on its sex appeal, for shallow people looking for a fashion accessory to show off to their friends.'

Reply Score: 3

HTC Made Its Point
by jburnett on Sun 1st Sep 2013 13:31 UTC
jburnett
Member since:
2012-03-29

HTC has clearly made the point to any other employees that are considering leaving - "we own the government and you will go to jail."

Reply Score: 1

RE: HTC Made Its Point
by bfr99 on Sun 1st Sep 2013 15:43 UTC in reply to "HTC Made Its Point"
bfr99 Member since:
2007-03-15

What a strategy: Lets discourage employees from starting new companies!
Another instance of corporate greed having damaging effects on a country as a whole.
Not the least reason for the proliferation of new technological firms in California is the high barrier to suing employees who leave for other opportunities. In 1996 Borland of all companies actually managed to criminally charge an employee who changed jobs with theft of trade secrets. The case of course, was eventually thrown out and I believe the county prosecutor destroyed his career. The lesson is that if you see a public company suing departing employees it is a good opportunity to short the stock.
While even in California there are sometimes suits against departing employees, they are typical business lawsuits that are quickly settled.

Reply Score: 1