Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 16th Sep 2013 21:44 UTC
Games

Gabe Newell, the co-founder and managing director of Valve, said today that Linux is the future of gaming despite the minuscule share of the market it has today.

That seems hard to believe, given that Newell acknowledged Linux gaming generally accounts for less than one percent of the market by any measure including players, player minutes, and revenue. But Valve is going to do its best to make sure Linux becomes the future of gaming by extending its Steam distribution platform to hardware designed for living rooms.

"Half-Life 3 - SteamBox/Linux exclusive". There, chicken and egg problem solved.

Order by: Score:
v Uhm
by peteo on Mon 16th Sep 2013 22:18 UTC
v Linux is the future of gaming!
by modmans2ndcoming on Mon 16th Sep 2013 22:32 UTC
Gone fishing Member since:
2006-02-22

Because we will start building a gaming console based on Linux!

some how that does not seem like a winning strategy for Valve.


I guess similar things could nave been written about Google and Android

Edited 2013-09-16 23:17 UTC

Reply Score: 9

modmans2ndcoming Member since:
2005-11-09

No, not really. The Mobile computing market was nothing but growing with huge market penetration potential....Consoles are not that.

Reply Score: 3

tidux Member since:
2011-08-13

The PS4 is based on FreeBSD and x86. I really don't see why Linux couldn't succeed against that kind of competition.

Reply Score: 11

Ultimatebadass Member since:
2006-01-08

Developer support. If there are no games being created for your system it does not matter what it's running.

Playstation and Xbox are huge brands that have loads and loads of studios creating games for them. You're being overly optimistic if you think Valve has that much pull in the industry.

Reply Score: 2

WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

Have you been following the news? Ever since Valve released Steam for Linux there's suddenly been quite a lot of news about games being ported over and many games that are still being in development will be getting a Linux-port, too.

I'd say that goes to show exactly how well Valve has lodged themselves in all areas of gaming and how much pull they actually have.

Reply Score: 7

Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Not just that, Valve also involves itself in the low-level stuff - developing a debugger, cooperating closely with game makers and graphics chip makers on drivers, and so on.

They're serious about this.

Reply Score: 6

lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

I wanna know what the actual numbers are of titles sold on Linux, because outside of Valve's back catalog and indie games ... I seen very little evidence of this shift occuring.

Reply Score: 3

Ultimatebadass Member since:
2006-01-08

Yes, some smaller and indie titles are getting linux ports. Have any big developers/publishers mentioned anything about supporting linux? (not being snarky, that's a genuine question).

Reply Score: 2

ssokolow Member since:
2010-01-21

Does Europa Universalis IV count?

http://store.steampowered.com/app/236850/

I don't really follow mainstream gaming anymore.

Reply Score: 2

allanregistos Member since:
2011-02-10

Because we will start building a gaming console based on Linux!

some how that does not seem like a winning strategy for Valve.

mod, if you can analyze this article:
http://www.pcgamesn.com/valves-masterplan-linux-steambox-big-pictur...

You will know that Gabe Newel a point. It's the gaming on the living room is their target. They have the steam box(in dev) for the living room. Linux's current market share is not a problem, people will buy a STEAM box because games written on it will run everywhere, not only on the steam box. While MS and Sony's console are locked down black boxes. Again, Linux desktop's market share is not a problem. It's the Linux-powered steam box that will conquer the living room.

Reply Score: 1

Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

You're not expected to build one yourself, you're expected to buy a Steambox. It's called selling a product.

Reply Score: 3

The Most resilient parasite in the world
by Dekonega on Mon 16th Sep 2013 22:37 UTC
Dekonega
Member since:
2009-07-28

Even the largest revolutions are at first nothing but a small thought inside an individual's mind.

Edited 2013-09-16 22:43 UTC

Reply Score: 3

lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

Valve selling a consumer product isn't a rallying cry for the masses.

Reply Score: 2

What to look for "next week"
by ronaldst on Mon 16th Sep 2013 23:30 UTC
ronaldst
Member since:
2005-06-29

Some repackaged Ubuntu with off the shelf hardware found on Newegg.

I am prepared for a good belly chuckle.

I've never understood why Valve didn't coop with the Ouya people. They have a nice platform already built.

Reply Score: 1

RE: What to look for "next week"
by Fergy on Tue 17th Sep 2013 06:20 UTC in reply to "What to look for "next week""
Fergy Member since:
2006-04-10

Some repackaged Ubuntu with off the shelf hardware found on Newegg.

I am prepared for a good belly chuckle.

I've never understood why Valve didn't coop with the Ouya people. They have a nice platform already built.

Valve has a nice platform yeah. Ouya has a cheap micro console.

Reply Score: 5

bornagainenguin Member since:
2005-08-07

ronaldst asked....

I've never understood why Valve didn't coop with the Ouya people. They have a nice platform already built.


If you really believe this, then I find myself speculating as to whether you even own a OUYA or not. Granted as many faults as the OUYA has (has had?) perhaps with the wiser headship of Valve many of those could have been ironed over as far far too many of the issues would have been quite easy to fix if only someone with a brain had been available to set the drunken idiots currently in charge of the ship to rights.

I guess we'll never really know.

--bornagainpenguin

Reply Score: 2

SteamOS Anyone?
by saidge@yahoo.com on Mon 16th Sep 2013 23:36 UTC
saidge@yahoo.com
Member since:
2007-11-06

Somehow I wouldn't be surprised if they took a cue from Google and created their own Linux based 'Steam' OS that was as different from GNU/Linux as Android is.

Edited 2013-09-16 23:36 UTC

Reply Score: 6

RE: SteamOS Anyone?
by ssokolow on Tue 17th Sep 2013 00:11 UTC in reply to "SteamOS Anyone?"
ssokolow Member since:
2010-01-21

Somehow I wouldn't be surprised if they took a cue from Google and created their own Linux based 'Steam' OS that was as different from GNU/Linux as Android is.


Except that the big difference with Android is that they use their own quirky libc and graphics stack, which complicates the process of running Dalvik apps on regular Linux or glibc+X11 apps on Android.

Dalvik itself isn't fundamentally different from what happened with the ABI and VM Sun cooked up for Java apps in their attempt to achieve "write once, run anywhere".

Given all the games already ported and released for the glibc+X11 stack via Steam for Linux, it wouldn't be very smart to expect developers to release yet MORE builds of their games.

Edited 2013-09-17 00:11 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: SteamOS Anyone?
by lucas_maximus on Tue 17th Sep 2013 20:05 UTC in reply to "RE: SteamOS Anyone?"
lucas_maximus Member since:
2009-08-18

I think it was because glibc maintainers are difficult to work with being one of the primary reasons.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: SteamOS Anyone?
by ssokolow on Tue 17th Sep 2013 22:25 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: SteamOS Anyone?"
ssokolow Member since:
2010-01-21

I think it was because glibc maintainers are difficult to work with being one of the primary reasons.


That wouldn't surprise me.

Reply Score: 2

RE: SteamOS Anyone?
by Flatland_Spider on Tue 17th Sep 2013 04:15 UTC in reply to "SteamOS Anyone?"
Flatland_Spider Member since:
2006-09-01

They could do something like ChromeOS, which is a build of Gentoo with lots of Google sauce on top.

It's really more important for them to be as vanilla as possible so they can capture users of other distros. I like running Fedora, and I'm not particularly inclined to run Ubuntu. I would check out Steam if there was a client for it.*

*(I haven't actually looked into this. There might be a package for this somewhere.)

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: SteamOS Anyone?
by allanregistos on Wed 18th Sep 2013 04:32 UTC in reply to "RE: SteamOS Anyone?"
allanregistos Member since:
2011-02-10

They could do something like ChromeOS, which is a build of Gentoo with lots of Google sauce on top.

It's really more important for them to be as vanilla as possible so they can capture users of other distros. I like running Fedora, and I'm not particularly inclined to run Ubuntu. I would check out Steam if there was a client for it.*

*(I haven't actually looked into this. There might be a package for this somewhere.)

It's important to know that they are working the Linux Steam client at day one on top of Ubuntu 12.04. It makes sense, rather than using Gentoo. You may argue along the lines of technical superiority or whatsoever, but business is business, even if you have computer scientists at your disposal, it makes sense to use a linux distro with a commercial backup. The point is your scientists needs to focus on the job(Steam), and not to be distracted by customizing the OS(unless of course for dev tools) which is a total waste of time.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: SteamOS Anyone?
by Flatland_Spider on Wed 18th Sep 2013 13:36 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: SteamOS Anyone?"
Flatland_Spider Member since:
2006-09-01

I totally agree with that. Outsource what isn't a core competency.

It makes sense to make Ubuntu the first target. It's easy to install the proprietary drivers, it targets the desktop, and it has market share/mindshare.

You missed my point. Android is the Linux kernel plus the Android userland (Android/Linux), and it diverges quite a bit from a normal GNU/Linux distro because of that.

ChromeOS is much closer to a regular GNU/Linux distro. It's been customized by Google which makes it a specialty distro, but it's still pretty generic. SteamOS being ChromeOS like could mean a heavily customized version of Ubuntu, Debian, RHEL, Arch, or whatever Valve decides to use.

Furthermore, it doesn't behoove them to get too crazy with the customization, like using Android/Linux for the Steambox, because it would cut them off from the larger GNU/Linux pool. There are people who simply aren't going to run Ubuntu. Valve doesn't have to support every distro under the sun, but they can make some decisions that would make it easy for people to port if the Steam client if they want to.

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: SteamOS Anyone?
by allanregistos on Thu 19th Sep 2013 00:29 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: SteamOS Anyone?"
allanregistos Member since:
2011-02-10

I totally agree with that. Outsource what isn't a core competency.

It makes sense to make Ubuntu the first target. It's easy to install the proprietary drivers, it targets the desktop, and it has market share/mindshare.

You missed my point. Android is the Linux kernel plus the Android userland (Android/Linux), and it diverges quite a bit from a normal GNU/Linux distro because of that.

ChromeOS is much closer to a regular GNU/Linux distro. It's been customized by Google which makes it a specialty distro, but it's still pretty generic. SteamOS being ChromeOS like could mean a heavily customized version of Ubuntu, Debian, RHEL, Arch, or whatever Valve decides to use.

Furthermore, it doesn't behoove them to get too crazy with the customization, like using Android/Linux for the Steambox, because it would cut them off from the larger GNU/Linux pool. There are people who simply aren't going to run Ubuntu. Valve doesn't have to support every distro under the sun, but they can make some decisions that would make it easy for people to port if the Steam client if they want to.

Ok. The Steambox must be a customized version of Linux, but it needs to be compatible with the rest of Linux distribution by using the whole GNU/Linux userland. So an existing user can still install Steam and be done with it, or he just can buy the Steambox if he is not a Linux user. And I think this user is the target of Valve so they need not to worry about the number of Linux desktop users. Valve do not need to market the Steam brand and say "Hey, install Linux so you can play our games." Instead, they will say to existing Linux users: "Install our Steam client so you can play games." And they will say this to Windows and MacOSx users: "Buy our Steambox." Without bothering them of this Linux thingy.

Regards,

Edited 2013-09-19 00:31 UTC

Reply Score: 1

v The Vita is Android/Linux
by slashdev on Tue 17th Sep 2013 01:27 UTC
RE: The Vita is Android/Linux
by linux-lover on Tue 17th Sep 2013 03:14 UTC in reply to "The Vita is Android/Linux"
linux-lover Member since:
2011-04-25

No, the neither vita or vita tv is android. It is not even a linux flavour. It is 100% a proprietary OS. It could be based on FreeBSD (like the PS3 is rumored too, and the PS4 is basically almost confirmed too). But it would be a modified version.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_Vita_system_software

Reply Score: 5

RE: The Vita is Android/Linux
by WereCatf on Tue 17th Sep 2013 03:18 UTC in reply to "The Vita is Android/Linux"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

Just a quick note. The PS Vita is an android platform. the newly announced $99 PS VitaTV is an android gaming platform too. Food for thought...


Where have you heard such a silly rumour?

Reply Score: 4

RE: The Vita is Android/Linux
by Fergy on Tue 17th Sep 2013 06:38 UTC in reply to "The Vita is Android/Linux"
Fergy Member since:
2006-04-10

Just a quick note. The PS Vita is an android platform. the newly announced $99 PS VitaTV is an android gaming platform too. Food for thought...

I wish I could mark usernames because you are not only lying you are stating it as if it is a well known fact.

Everything you say is suspect.

Reply Score: 2

Only OS Left
by Dano on Tue 17th Sep 2013 08:47 UTC
Dano
Member since:
2006-01-22

Steam is just talking about Linux because it's the only OS that is not going to have a closed ecosystem for apps in the future. Now that Microsoft has a store, it kind of makes Steam irrelevant.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Only OS Left
by Lennie on Tue 17th Sep 2013 10:32 UTC in reply to "Only OS Left"
Lennie Member since:
2007-09-22

De nieuwer Intel chips allow for more mobile devices to use Intel chips:

http://anandtech.com/show/7314/intel-baytrail-preview-intel-atom-z3...

They can run Windows or Linux/BSD. Intel is very much involved with Linux. For example open source Linux GPU drivers.

We'll see lots of new dual-purpose Intel-based mobile devices enter the market.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Only OS Left
by allanregistos on Wed 18th Sep 2013 04:35 UTC in reply to "RE: Only OS Left"
allanregistos Member since:
2011-02-10

De nieuwer Intel chips allow for more mobile devices to use Intel chips:

http://anandtech.com/show/7314/intel-baytrail-preview-intel-atom-z3...

They can run Windows or Linux/BSD. Intel is very much involved with Linux. For example open source Linux GPU drivers.

We'll see lots of new dual-purpose Intel-based mobile devices enter the market.

I have yet to see one. So far its all demos.

Reply Score: 1

Re:
by kurkosdr on Tue 17th Sep 2013 11:48 UTC
kurkosdr
Member since:
2011-04-11

Wow, Gabe is planning to crank up the vendeta with Microsoft (which started when MS locked Steam out of the Win8 app store and by extension from Metro). This can only be a positive thing for us customers, but honestly I don't believe Gabe will succed in overthrowing Windows from the top spot in desktop and laptops or even as a gaming platform.

The linux desktop is in a bit of turmoil lately with the Wayland-Mir spat, and the inertia Windows has is massive.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Re:
by allanregistos on Thu 19th Sep 2013 00:35 UTC in reply to "Re:"
allanregistos Member since:
2011-02-10

Wow, Gabe is planning to crank up the vendeta with Microsoft (which started when MS locked Steam out of the Win8 app store and by extension from Metro). This can only be a positive thing for us customers, but honestly I don't believe Gabe will succed in overthrowing Windows from the top spot in desktop and laptops or even as a gaming platform.

The linux desktop is in a bit of turmoil lately with the Wayland-Mir spat, and the inertia Windows has is massive.


You don't understand what's going on. Gabe isn'g worried of the thing you mentioned. He will be using Steambox to market Steam regardless of what desktop you are using. The current Steam linux client is their tool to go forward with a Steambox. You known, Steambox is not a PS4/XBox-type locked down console, it is a P.C. with a Linux under the hood, but users need not to worry about that, they want to play games. And whatever they played on the Steambox will also run on their Win/MAC OSX desktops, with the same quality since they are all the same version. They will develop their games on a P.C. and target their binaries on a P.C., unlike locked down consoles. So Linux desktop market share is not their problem.

Reply Score: 1

Comment by v_bobok
by v_bobok on Tue 17th Sep 2013 12:05 UTC
v_bobok
Member since:
2008-08-01

Please, Gaben, pleeeease. HL3 exclusive for a year for Linux and Steambox.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by v_bobok
by tkeith on Tue 17th Sep 2013 14:54 UTC in reply to "Comment by v_bobok"
tkeith Member since:
2010-09-01

My guess is they wouldn't do exclusive, but maybe some kind of bundled deal with their BOX, or exclusive content.

Reply Score: 2

An up-hill battle
by chrish on Tue 17th Sep 2013 12:33 UTC
chrish
Member since:
2005-07-14

As you can see from the Mac version of Steam, and the Mac versions of most of the Valve catalogue, the hard part is getting other companies to port their games.

And even then, if they do it with Wine/Cider, you're going to get ports with sub-par performance (The Witcher runs a lot smoother via BootCamp than natively on Mac, for example) or half-assed ones that have sub-par performance and lag behind the Windows version when it comes to fixes and improvements (Dragon Age: Origins for example).

When they did come out, the Mac ports were usually 6-12 months after the Windows version appeared. Usually they didn't come out though.

This isn't a problem that'll be limited to the Mac because of video drivers or what have you, the Linux ports are going to be using exactly the same technologies (usually Cider). Most companies aren't willing to put resources towards native ports.

I'd love to see gaming take off on Mac and Linux (and hopefully FreeBSD via hackery, as that's my favourite desktop UNIX), but we've been fighting this battle for decades now. Apple certainly isn't interested in making gaming a "focus" for OS X, since that's what they've got iOS for. Maybe Valve can bring enough focus and press attention to Linux gaming to make this happen.

Reply Score: 3

lucas_maximus
Member since:
2009-08-18

Even if you believe that Windows ecosystem is slowing down. It isn't a closed platform at least not for developers.

The most successful platforms for games outside of flash and facebook games has always been consoles.

Which are the opposite of open. They are very locked down. Traditionally you have had to buy expensive dev versions of the consoles to work on ... developing a game on any version of Windows has never required you buying specialist hardware that can be half of a regular developers salary for the year.

Gabe remarks are marketing.

Edited 2013-09-17 21:17 UTC

Reply Score: 4

Comment by ilovebeer
by ilovebeer on Wed 18th Sep 2013 06:45 UTC
ilovebeer
Member since:
2011-08-08

So linux is going to dominate gaming now huh? Surely you'll understand that I won't be holding my breath waiting for that day to come. I know a lot of linux devs and I bet every one of them could write a different essay on why it's not going to happen.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by ilovebeer
by allanregistos on Thu 19th Sep 2013 00:40 UTC in reply to "Comment by ilovebeer"
allanregistos Member since:
2011-02-10

So linux is going to dominate gaming now huh? Surely you'll understand that I won't be holding my breath waiting for that day to come. I know a lot of linux devs and I bet every one of them could write a different essay on why it's not going to happen.

What I'd understand from Gabe's standpoint is:
Steambox. The Linux Steam client is their first attempt to make it happen, and they will market Steambox as a better alternative to locked-down console gaming. For Steambox is a generic P.C., powered by Linux, so it makes sense for him to claim that Linux is the future for them and the rest of the gaming community, since it provides them the openness to develop w/o the walled-garden approach of Win/OSX. Game developers will only need to target a Linux-based generic computer for their binaries, instead of having to target different architectures: X86, Arm, Console etc.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Comment by ilovebeer
by ilovebeer on Thu 19th Sep 2013 04:49 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by ilovebeer"
ilovebeer Member since:
2011-08-08

Windows already has a user base that numbers in the hundreds of millions. Most games that appear on Windows & consoles are cross-compiled and don't need significant reworking of any kind. And let's not forget that gamers care about one thing only -- games. Sales don't lie, people want GTA, Halo, Forza, CoD, Gran Turismo, etc etc.

It will be interesting to see what becomes of Steambox, if anything, but it will take a lot more than the possibility of Half-Life 3 to be more than a speck in the presence of giants.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Comment by ilovebeer
by res0r9lm on Fri 20th Sep 2013 04:25 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by ilovebeer"
res0r9lm Member since:
2013-08-13

I would buy a linux console especially if it was easy to upgrade hardware before xbox1 or PS4. I don't know why people think that linux users are cheapskates when so many users just get pirated copies windows. I've been running linux since windows millennium because its a better OS.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Comment by ilovebeer
by ilovebeer on Sat 21st Sep 2013 17:52 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by ilovebeer"
ilovebeer Member since:
2011-08-08

An upgradeable linux console already exists in the form of a pc running linux, with games installed on it -- the basic jist of what a Steam Box is. Creating a small form-factor pre-built pc with linux pre-installed on it isn't exactly groundbreaking. Even when/if the Steam Box moves from vaporware to something you can actually buy, it's got an unimaginable mountain to climb to become any kind of serious competition to Xbox/Playstation. The Steam Box seems to be little more than sticking a pc behind your tv and replacing the keyboard/mouse with a gaming controller.

Reply Score: 2