Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 20th Sep 2013 23:29 UTC
PDAs, Cellphones, Wireless

So, BlackBerry has just announced it's exciting the consumer market, focussing on the enterprise instead. Worse yet, it's cutting 4500 jobs, half its workforce, which is a statistic for us, but a disaster for those involved.

The company sold just 3.7 million smartphones in the second quarter, most of which ran the older BlackBerry 7 operating system instead of the new BlackBerry 10. This means the Z10 and Q10 have been unmitigated flops. Hardly surprising though - even random people such as myself knew BB10 was going to be a hard, if not impossible, sell.

Order by: Score:
First in with the typo...
by BushLin on Fri 20th Sep 2013 23:41 UTC
BushLin
Member since:
2011-01-26

Fairly sure it's safe to assume Blackberry are exiting the consumer market rather than making claims of exciting it.

Reply Score: 10

RE: First in with the typo...
by BlueofRainbow on Fri 20th Sep 2013 23:48 UTC in reply to "First in with the typo..."
BlueofRainbow Member since:
2009-01-06

Actually, the news release mentioned a re-focus on enterprises and prosumers.

Is-there much of difference between prosumers and consumers given the discount offered by cellular service providers on 2 and 3 years plans?

Reply Score: 1

Misleading headline
by Moochman on Sat 21st Sep 2013 00:35 UTC
Moochman
Member since:
2005-07-06

Nowhere in the linked article does it say they're "exiting the consumer market". Refocusing maybe but not exiting... that would imply that they plan to stop making phones completely...

Edited 2013-09-21 00:38 UTC

Reply Score: 5

RE: Misleading headline
by bassbeast on Sat 21st Sep 2013 15:44 UTC in reply to "Misleading headline"
bassbeast Member since:
2007-11-11

If you are focusing on enterprise and prosumer? Then its implied that what is not named is what is being tossed. After all if you are focusing on a niche that means you are not selling broadly hence why its called focusing.

Frankly stick a fork, BB is done. As others have noted we only seem to have room for 2 players in a given market when it comes to OSes, one open and one closed. Servers? Linux and Windows. Mobile? Apple and Google, desktop? Apple and MSFT. In each case one is "open" or at least open enough for Joe Average and the other is closed.

Like Palm the problem BB had was fear, they were so afraid of rocking the boat that they stuck with what had worked in the past until the market had passed them by. You look at the same PHBs that always had to have their Crackberry and now they have iPhones and Galaxy IIs, the market changed and BB didn't try to stay ahead and ended up trying to play catch up which is the way to kill a company, just ask MSFT about WinPhone.

Reply Score: 4

I MISS MY BLACKBERRY
by Dant2590 on Sat 21st Sep 2013 01:39 UTC
Dant2590
Member since:
2013-09-21

I sure miss my Blackberry. It was such a easy OS to work with. I tried the BBQ10 phone when it came out. I hated that we lost the ability to block and copy and paste easily like I was always used to since it no longer had the track ball....nor did it have a go back key anymore. If I had to deal with that, I figured I'd go on and trade it in after 12 days of trial and just get a Iphone5. I'm still not delighted with the iphone, and REALLY miss the real keyboard blackberry had. I LOVED my BB9810. Best phone I've ever owned and will ever own. But at least with the iphone, I have the apps available that weren't going to ever be written for the BB format. The one for my security system was important to me. I also missed being able to listen to Pandora while out walking the dogs. I've got the apps now on the iphone, if I can just get used to typing on a virtual keyboard. I've got big fingers, and in the 7 weeks I've had it, I'm still complaining. My text messages are now all just about sent through Seri. I went from 1500++ messages/month on the BB to under 250 on the iphone.

Was hoping BB would make a comeback and I could go back to them in 2 years. Not looking good.

Reply Score: 4

QNX?
by moondevil on Sat 21st Sep 2013 05:42 UTC
moondevil
Member since:
2005-07-08

And most likely killing QNX in the process. ;)

Reply Score: 3

RE: QNX?
by anda_skoa on Sat 21st Sep 2013 15:20 UTC in reply to "QNX?"
anda_skoa Member since:
2005-07-07

And most likely killing QNX in the process. ;)


I find that unlikely. QNX is a separate business unit and doing very well in the embedded sector and in automotive industries.

Recent investments of BlackBerry into QNX, e.g. making it a Tier 1 platform for Qt5, have given QNX as a platform a tremendous boost.

Reply Score: 6

RE[2]: QNX?
by shotsman on Sun 22nd Sep 2013 08:07 UTC in reply to "RE: QNX?"
shotsman Member since:
2005-07-22

That might be the truth now but I forsee a time not very far in the future where the problems with the parent compnany will drag down the QNX/embedded part of the company no matter how much money it is making.

The only saviour for it (IMHO) is for it to be floated off as a separate company via an IPO that will bring in much needed cash for the ailing company.

Reply Score: 2

RE: QNX?
by BlueofRainbow on Sun 22nd Sep 2013 23:37 UTC in reply to "QNX?"
BlueofRainbow Member since:
2009-01-06

In a worst case scenario, QNX could be packaged and sold as an self-contained entity.

I doubt it will disappear entirely, although we might not see much of it since it is still pretty much a real-time operating system for cars and devices.

Reply Score: 2

BYOD
by unoengborg on Sat 21st Sep 2013 08:52 UTC
unoengborg
Member since:
2005-07-06

In the age of bring your own device, leaving the consumer market would most likely be a disaster in the enterprise arena as well.

As far as I can tell, the linked article does not say anything about leaving the consumer market though, so I doubt this is the case

Reply Score: 5

RE: BYOD
by Nelson on Sat 21st Sep 2013 12:28 UTC in reply to "BYOD"
Nelson Member since:
2005-11-29

They are going to get massacred by other MDM solutions and Microsoft in this space. BBRY is dead.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: BYOD
by stabbyjones on Sat 21st Sep 2013 13:43 UTC in reply to "RE: BYOD"
stabbyjones Member since:
2008-04-15

Just what I posted. Exactly right

Reply Score: 3

RE: BYOD
by drcoldfoot on Sun 22nd Sep 2013 19:15 UTC in reply to "BYOD"
drcoldfoot Member since:
2006-08-25

I disagree. I applaud this move and the refocus o teh enterprise. BYOD is a disaster in the enterprise space when it comes to security and corporate compliance. Even on the support end, there are many wasted cycles troubleshooting personal devices of disparate Operating configurations and software installations. If enterprises can focus on one Enterprise friendly device, as before, they would save in operating expenses, compliance, security (minus the NSA), and SW licensing costs such as mobile iron, etc. to attempt to lock down devices.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: BYOD
by darknexus on Sun 22nd Sep 2013 23:03 UTC in reply to "RE: BYOD"
darknexus Member since:
2008-07-15

If enterprises can focus on one Enterprise friendly device, as before, they would save in operating expenses, compliance, security (minus the NSA), and SW licensing costs such as mobile iron, etc. to attempt to lock down devices.

Which is precisely where Microsoft should be focusing WP and Surface right now. They've got the corporate infrastructure already: Exchange, Active Directory, SharePoint. Yet for some reason they are stupid enough to want to try and compete in the consumer space when there's a market just waiting for them. If they don't realize it soon, BB might gobble it up again assuming BB can get some management in there that has even a small clue about the current state of technology.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: BYOD
by drcoldfoot on Mon 23rd Sep 2013 00:11 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: BYOD"
drcoldfoot Member since:
2006-08-25

True,
But Both RIM AND Microsoft failed the security game when they created backdoors for governments albeit RIM held out the longest. I believe the time is ripe for former RIM devs and engineers to start a new firm with the core focus on security for the enterprise as the former RIM.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: BYOD
by Soulbender on Mon 23rd Sep 2013 03:52 UTC in reply to "RE: BYOD"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Not long ago a lot of people would have said that the PC is a disaster for the enterprise space....

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: BYOD
by drcoldfoot on Mon 23rd Sep 2013 13:48 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: BYOD"
drcoldfoot Member since:
2006-08-25

True, but a PC has proven time and again as a multitasking machine that encourages productivity. The PC market has hit it's plateau in growth in the U.S.A. By design, a BYOD consumer Tablet, and smartphone has taken an opposite approach to security, productivity, and multitasking in the enterprise.

Reply Score: 2

What a pity
by porcel on Sat 21st Sep 2013 11:55 UTC
porcel
Member since:
2006-01-28

It´s a shame because I really like the tablets they made.

It is well-built and very easy to use, but the lack of apps...

And sideloading android apps never was simple for the average user.

Too bad...

Reply Score: 3

Comment by stabbyjones
by stabbyjones on Sat 21st Sep 2013 13:42 UTC
stabbyjones
Member since:
2008-04-15

Nelson beat me to the punch.
Someone buy rim and put this train wreck out of its misery

Edited 2013-09-21 13:44 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE: Comment by stabbyjones
by bassbeast on Sat 21st Sep 2013 15:50 UTC in reply to "Comment by stabbyjones"
bassbeast Member since:
2007-11-11

Why would anybody buy it? Unless you are a patent troll BB just doesn't have anything worth buying, the customers have moved on, the products just aren't moving, it might be worth buying for QNX but not at the price BB will expect to get and the rest of the business is a dead elephant, too high when it comes to costs and too low when it comes to profits. Hell its doubtful they'll even find somebody dumb enough to buy the OS like HP bought WebOS as Android is too far ahead at this point.

Stick a fork,BB is done. Like Palm they'll be in the "remember when?" section, just one more used to be great that refused to keep with the times and got ran over by history. Damned shame as many folks liked BB back in the day, but those folks all have Android or iOS now.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Comment by stabbyjones
by phoenix on Mon 23rd Sep 2013 19:57 UTC in reply to "Comment by stabbyjones"
phoenix Member since:
2005-07-11

Fairfax just signed a Letter of Intent to buy Blackberry for $4.7 billion (guessing CDN). If nobody else shows up to buy them in the nest 6 weeks, Blackberry will become a private company. What happens after that is anyone's guess.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=fairfax+buys+blackberry&num=50

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by stabbyjones
by ferrels on Mon 23rd Sep 2013 20:07 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by stabbyjones"
ferrels Member since:
2006-08-15

Well, BB doesn't have any products that anyone wants to buy so this implies that it's an IP buyout. Not surprised about it either.

Reply Score: 2

They are dead...
by TomB on Sat 21st Sep 2013 15:22 UTC
TomB
Member since:
2013-04-06

Getting rid of half of all people won't go unnoticed even in their organization. Talented people that survive this layoff will look for alternatives and also leave voluntarily in the following months. No sane person will want to stay on a sinking ship unless they have no viable alternative. They are most likely not going to survive this.

Reply Score: 3

One less competitor
by hauger on Sun 22nd Sep 2013 00:31 UTC
hauger
Member since:
2005-12-05

I own a Z10 and love it. Find it very fluid and a joy to use.

The thing that drives me nuts about the BlackBerry story is the number of people that are filled with glee at the death of a competitor in the mobile field. I'm astounded that the average person seems to rejoice at the idea of there being less competition in the mobile space, basically it seems consumers are standing around saying "Yay! BlackBerry's dead! Less choice! Awesome!"

The other thing that kills me is I don't know what to migrate to if/when BlackBerry finally packs it in. I can't stand Apple's anti-consumer stance, but in the mobile space I'm not sure I'm excited for Android and the security issues with it. Windows Phone? Maybe.

Edited 2013-09-22 00:32 UTC

Reply Score: 7

RE: One less competitor
by BallmerKnowsBest on Mon 23rd Sep 2013 15:10 UTC in reply to "One less competitor"
BallmerKnowsBest Member since:
2008-06-02

The thing that drives me nuts about the BlackBerry story is the number of people that are filled with glee at the death of a competitor in the mobile field. I'm astounded that the average person seems to rejoice at the idea of there being less competition in the mobile space, basically it seems consumers are standing around saying "Yay! BlackBerry's dead! Less choice! Awesome!"


Welcome to our brave new world of technology enthusiasts, where fanboys and posturing-wannabes are the majority. Another trend that we can thank the iFanboys and GNU/Zealots for, due their insistence on dragging every discussion down into "us VS them" partisanship. To the people who perpetuate that mindset, the only way for their side to win is for everyone else to lose - and any success for the opposition is seen as a loss for them (if not a direct threat to their own personal self-worth).

So of course fanboys will express delight at any misfortune for companies/products they see as a threat to their surrogate daddy-figure. It's a concept called "psychological transference," basically a way for simpletons to feel pride in accomplishments that they had no part in - as if they can hitch wagon to something successful & have that success somehow rub off or reflect positively on them.

The other thing that kills me is I don't know what to migrate to if/when BlackBerry finally packs it in. I can't stand Apple's anti-consumer stance, but in the mobile space I'm not sure I'm excited for Android and the security issues with it. Windows Phone? Maybe.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNUHy9_em4U

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: One less competitor
by darknexus on Mon 23rd Sep 2013 17:02 UTC in reply to "RE: One less competitor"
darknexus Member since:
2008-07-15

So of course fanboys will express delight at any misfortune for companies/products they see as a threat to their surrogate daddy-figure. It's a concept called "psychological transference," basically a way for simpletons to feel pride in accomplishments that they had no part in - as if they can hitch wagon to something successful & have that success somehow rub off or reflect positively on them.

This is hardly a new concept. We see it all the time not just in tech, but with wars, sports, governments, you name it. The same problem that makes one country want to bomb another one because they're not the same as they is manifesting itself in the tech field. It's pathetic, though if viewed objectively from the standpoint of Human evolution is hardly surprising as it goes back to our tribe/pack mentality. We're better than that, but most people do not wish to rise above it and prefer instead to feel pretend pride at something they've never done.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: One less competitor
by Alfman on Mon 23rd Sep 2013 17:26 UTC in reply to "RE: One less competitor"
Alfman Member since:
2011-01-28

BallmerKnowsBest,

+1 Ain't that the truth. It gets so tiresome and yet it never ends. Most threads end up turning into a feud dislodging the whole discussion into a predictable and mindless turf war where everything is viewed in a black and white "us vs them" mentality without regards to common sense. Is there anywhere to go for serious topics without having to tolerate insane fanboy nonsense?

Reply Score: 2

RE: One less competitor
by Sparrowhawk on Mon 23rd Sep 2013 15:51 UTC in reply to "One less competitor"
Sparrowhawk Member since:
2005-07-11

I tried replying earlier but for some reason my post went AWOL.

Anyway, I just wanted to say that I agree with you 100% - I too have a Z10: love it, best phone I've ever used (having come from iOS and having bought Android phones for family members in the past too).

As you say, more variety leads to greater innovation - crowing over the demise of a competitor is an odd thing to do in my opinion.

Reply Score: 2

RE: One less competitor
by internettenparakazan on Mon 23rd Sep 2013 17:40 UTC in reply to "One less competitor"
internettenparakazan Member since:
2013-09-23

ıt is unlikely

Reply Score: 1

Surprised?
by ferrels on Sun 22nd Sep 2013 00:52 UTC
ferrels
Member since:
2006-08-15

Is anyone really surprised by this? This has to be one of the longest slow-motion train-wrecks I've ever seen. I honestly don't know how they've remained in business thus far. I wish some corporate raider would go ahead and buy up BB's IP and auction off everything else and put BB out of my misery.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Surprised?
by hauger on Sun 22nd Sep 2013 01:16 UTC in reply to "Surprised?"
hauger Member since:
2005-12-05

Is anyone really surprised by this? This has to be one of the longest slow-motion train-wrecks I've ever seen. I honestly don't know how they've remained in business thus far. I wish some corporate raider would go ahead and buy up BB's IP and auction off everything else and put BB out of my misery.


Or, in other words; "Yippee! Less competition! Less consumer choice! Sweet!"

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Surprised?
by benytocamela on Sun 22nd Sep 2013 17:14 UTC in reply to "RE: Surprised?"
benytocamela Member since:
2013-05-16

But that's why they're going out of business; they were not a very good competitor, and their choices were not that good either.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Surprised?
by ferrels on Mon 23rd Sep 2013 00:59 UTC in reply to "RE: Surprised?"
ferrels Member since:
2006-08-15

You just don't get it. The consumers HAVE made their choice and BB isn't it. That's the way it's supposed to work. If you sell crappy, unwanted products, then you rightfully go out of business. If you think BB is so great, then go buy one of their products and help support them. I on the other hand will invest in competitive products that aren't brain-dead or crippled. The Playbook tablet was a sick joke. Who wants an underpowered tablet that has to be tethered to another expensive and underpowered BB phone just to read their email? Nobody.

And their latest phone offerings are comparable to what I was buying back in 2008. Sorry, but they deserve to go out of business.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Surprised?
by hauger on Mon 23rd Sep 2013 11:29 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Surprised?"
hauger Member since:
2005-12-05

You just don't get it. The consumers HAVE made their choice and BB isn't it. That's the way it's supposed to work. If you sell crappy, unwanted products, then you rightfully go out of business. If you think BB is so great, then go buy one of their products and help support them. I on the other hand will invest in competitive products that aren't brain-dead or crippled. The Playbook tablet was a sick joke. Who wants an underpowered tablet that has to be tethered to another expensive and underpowered BB phone just to read their email? Nobody.

And their latest phone offerings are comparable to what I was buying back in 2008. Sorry, but they deserve to go out of business.


No, in fact, I think it's you that doesn't get it. Agreed, the last 5 years of their history is the company trying to figure out how to survive in a consumer-driven world and failing terribly. The market in turn punished them strongly for it and rightfully so. They refocused and released bb10, which, if you'd used it, is a fluid, smooth modern OS containing features not found on competitor phones. Reviews at release all agreed with this sentiment. The market didn't give them a chance though thanks to their past record.

What's actually happened to date is what's supposed to happen, competition drove innovation and improvement, and it's evident when comparing BlackBerry today to BlackBerry from a few years ago. That's a good thing. The continued hate though is unwarranted, and make no mistake, the loss or another competitor is one more competitor that won't be contributing to competition, innovation, and improvement.

Too bad, since bb10 is actually quite good, some of its UI is already being adopted by other competitors.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Surprised?
by ferrels on Mon 23rd Sep 2013 19:45 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Surprised?"
ferrels Member since:
2006-08-15

Nope, you're still not getting it. So BB refocused and developed something they thought would sell. It didn't sell. And for good reasons. The products weren't good enough when compared to the competition (and the price) and consumers were smart enough to see that and didn't buy them. Sorry to inform you, but that's how the market works and you can whine about it being unfair til the cows come home. That won't change the fact that BB's efforts to refocus and come up with a competitive product fell short. And as I predicted, I see that they're being purchased. The news article tries to play it down like they're just going private, but this is an IP buyout and the company WILL be shut down. http://arstechnica.com/business/2013/09/blackberry-to-go-private-in...

Reply Score: 3

So, what exactly is a "prosumer"???
by SzoylentGreen on Sun 22nd Sep 2013 06:19 UTC
SzoylentGreen
Member since:
2013-05-08

Is that someone who buys a gold iPhone 5s?

The 5s hardware wise is about as good as it gets, only one with a 64 bit chip.

Are there any phones that cost more than a gold iPhone 5s?

Isn't there some new Samsung coming out thats supposed to be pretty awesome too?

If these aren't "prosumer" than I don't know what is?

And I really can't see how any BB phone could even compare to a Galaxy or 5s.

Reply Score: 2

Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

Prosumer: Someone who's not good enough to be a professional but still, erroneously, think they're smarter then regular consumers.

Reply Score: 2

Sad
by transami on Sun 22nd Sep 2013 08:42 UTC
transami
Member since:
2006-02-28

They were in an unenviable position. Perceived as a New York posh accessory, too expensive for the masses, they felt they had too emulate Apple to stay relevant, but alienated much of their base in doing so.

They should have stick to their guns, innovated on their own, and downscaled to serve a smaller market share years ago. And now its too late.

Reply Score: 4

Horrible website
by transami on Sun 22nd Sep 2013 09:06 UTC
transami
Member since:
2006-02-28

Just went to their website. It is horrible!

Reply Score: 3