Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 14th Mar 2014 23:55 UTC
Talk, Rumors, X Versus Y

Stuff such as United's new offering generally arrives on Android sooner or later, and there are whole categories of apps - such as alternative keyboards - that are Android-only.

Much of the time, I'm an Android user myself, so I'm happy when something is available for Google's operating system and sorry when it isn't. But despite the fact that iOS's market share is much smaller than that of Android, and has been for years, Apple devices are still nearly always first in line when a major company or hot startup has to decide where to allocate its development resources. That's a dynamic that pundits keep telling us makes no sense - but it's happening, and its an enormous competitive advantage for Apple. 'Sounds like a victory to me.

iOS has won the application wars.

Sure, you have to disregard those gazilion Android applications iOS could never support (keyboards, launchers, SMS applications, browsers, task switchers, lock screens, etc., and so on, and so forth), but if you do that, then yes, iOS has won.

The tortoise is faster than the hare. Sure, you have to cut off the hare's legs first, but then, sure, yeah, the tortoise is faster.

Order by: Score:
I don't know about app wars...
by ichi on Sat 15th Mar 2014 00:20 UTC
ichi
Member since:
2007-03-06

...but I would sacrify a few launchers out of the whole lot of them to have stuff like decent video editors or an amp modeling app like BIAS.

iOS probably doesn't actually attract more devs as a whole, but it does indeed seem to capture those that create quality portable audiovisual production apps.

Edited 2014-03-15 00:22 UTC

Reply Score: 7

RE: I don't know about app wars...
by Fergy on Sat 15th Mar 2014 12:10 UTC in reply to "I don't know about app wars..."
Fergy Member since:
2006-04-10

iOS probably doesn't actually attract more devs as a whole, but it does indeed seem to capture those that create quality portable audiovisual production apps.

I would disagree. A lot of uninformed people still think iOS is the most important platform. So when they pay for their business app they choose iOS first. I don't get how you could say to your potential customer: make sure you buy Apple products because that is the only thing we are going to support for the next 3 years. But a lot of them do.

Edited 2014-03-15 12:10 UTC

Reply Score: 5

kristoph Member since:
2006-01-01

I don't know which people we're talking about that are 'uninformed' but if you look at global usage numbers ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems

... and you factor in that that there is only like (at most) 2 version of iOS and 2 screen sizes you need to support you have a pretty compelling argument for iOS first ( big audience, less headache ).

You also really need to look at regional distribution. If you have I EU centric app ( don't know of any but I am sure their out there ) then Android first makes total sense. If your targeting US first then the numbers are even more skewed towards iOS.

Reply Score: 3

No it isnt Member since:
2005-11-14

Yeah, but I'd rather do those things on a real computer.

Reply Score: 6

ichi Member since:
2007-03-06

Yeah, but I'd rather do those things on a real computer.


Of course, but having a portable (albeit not as functional) solution doesn't hurt either.

BIAS wouldn't be replacing my Pod, but would be easier to move around the house if I'm not recording anything but just playing a bit on the couch.

Reply Score: 4

Comment by tpchur
by tpchur on Sat 15th Mar 2014 01:11 UTC
tpchur
Member since:
2007-02-12

"Sure, you have to disregard those gazilion Android applications iOS could never support (keyboards, launchers, SMS applications, browsers, task switchers, lock screens, etc., and so on, and so forth), but if you do that, then yes, iOS has won."

So what you're saying is, that when it comes to apps that people actually use to do stuff, iOS has won? How many launchers can anyone possibly need?

And I'm a flippin' Android user! Its ridiculous that those are the applications that are actually popular on Android. I'm as guilty as the rest of ecosystem, but it's more chasing the idea that if I get this app, then my experience will be complete. It never is. Besides that, most applications for Android are ugly garbage with a few exceptions, of course. Android's app ecosystem is still by far its largest weakspot, but at this point, I have no idea how Google could even possibly address it.

Reply Score: 6

RE: Comment by tpchur
by Fergy on Sat 15th Mar 2014 12:14 UTC in reply to "Comment by tpchur"
Fergy Member since:
2006-04-10

So what you're saying is, that when it comes to apps that people actually use to do stuff, iOS has won? How many launchers can anyone possibly need?

I have no idea where you are coming from. The keyboard is one of the most used functions so if you get a lot of competition between keyboards you can choose the one that works best for you. With iOS you either like it or you're fucked.
I would rather have competition between apps than one golden standard that should suit everybody.

Reply Score: 11

RE[2]: Comment by tpchur
by leos on Sun 16th Mar 2014 21:46 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by tpchur"
leos Member since:
2005-09-21

"So what you're saying is, that when it comes to apps that people actually use to do stuff, iOS has won? How many launchers can anyone possibly need?

I have no idea where you are coming from. The keyboard is one of the most used functions so if you get a lot of competition between keyboards you can choose the one that works best for you. With iOS you either like it or you're fucked.
I would rather have competition between apps than one golden standard that should suit everybody.
"

Is anyone actually unhappy with the iOS keyboard? I know that sounds like blasphemy to an Android user, but I have never one heard anyone complain about the iOS keyboard. I don't think that even registers as a possibility for non-geek users. Even on an Android phone it wouldn't occur to me to change out the keyboard. The default is just fine. Not saying the choice shouldn't be there, but I doubt it is at all important to the overwhelming majority of Android users.

Well ok, I did switch keyboards once. The Huawei phone I got for a project came with some miserable Huawei keyboard, which I immediately removed in favour of the default one.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Comment by tpchur
by Fergy on Sun 16th Mar 2014 22:22 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by tpchur"
Fergy Member since:
2006-04-10

Is anyone actually unhappy with the iOS keyboard?

I don't think a lot of people are going to return the phone because of the keyboard. Most iPhone users will only have experience with the iPhone keyboard so how could they know? This does not in any way prove that the keyboard is perfect for everybody.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Comment by tpchur
by Thom_Holwerda on Sun 16th Mar 2014 22:30 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by tpchur"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Is anyone actually unhappy with the iOS keyboard? I know that sounds like blasphemy to an Android user, but I have never one heard anyone complain about the iOS keyboard.


You must, for some reason, have not heard the endless complaints about the shift key.

Reply Score: 0

RE[3]: Comment by tpchur
by Lobotomik on Mon 17th Mar 2014 08:30 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by tpchur"
Lobotomik Member since:
2006-01-03

I am an ex iPhone 4 user and I REALLY disliked the keyboard. It was OK if English was your only language, but it was a nightmare otherwise. Apple has this thing for deciding what is it that you want, and never yield, so the predictor really had to be turned off or you would be constantly spewing the most laughable nonsense.

I loathed the keyboard, and it irked me immensely that there was nothing I could do to replace it with another.

Reply Score: 4

RE[4]: Comment by tpchur
by leos on Mon 17th Mar 2014 19:06 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by tpchur"
leos Member since:
2005-09-21

I am an ex iPhone 4 user and I REALLY disliked the keyboard. It was OK if English was your only language, but it was a nightmare otherwise. Apple has this thing for deciding what is it that you want, and never yield, so the predictor really had to be turned off or you would be constantly spewing the most laughable nonsense.

I loathed the keyboard, and it irked me immensely that there was nothing I could do to replace it with another.


What other language? I regularly type in both English and German and it works great for me. But I have no experience in other languages.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Comment by tpchur
by elektrik on Mon 17th Mar 2014 19:57 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by tpchur"
elektrik Member since:
2006-04-18

I have both an Android device (personal) and an iPhone 5 (work). I absolutely cannot stand the iphone keyboard. Thank God the 'autocorrect' kicks in to help with all the misspelled words I have from the crappy recognition from my thumb typing...

Reply Score: 1

it is tough to define "won"
by j-beda on Sat 15th Mar 2014 04:32 UTC
j-beda
Member since:
2006-05-11

Since both platforms are quite successful, it is hard to see how either of them has "lost".

But surely some measure of success is what platform gets the most money to developers - if one was dramatically ahead in that metric, it would seem like that would be a pretty important factor. It does look like developers are having more success actually making coin on iOS compared to Android.

From the user's side of things, I suppose breadth of offering is important, as is price and quality of the apps. I don't know that any of these factors are slam dunks for either platform, since for the most part they both have a lot of apps available, for not-so-bad pricing and at "good enough" quality. One platform maybe ahead, but the other one is certainly "good enough" to offer value.

Reply Score: 7

It depends who's buyin'
by CaptainN- on Sat 15th Mar 2014 06:18 UTC
CaptainN-
Member since:
2005-07-07

It depends who orders the app, and what they use. There's an old joke, we don't need the website/app/colors to work right on every computer, just the client's. So it is with apps. Apple does a fairly good job even in terms of market share at the high end, and particularly well in America. Those folks order iOS apps first then do Android apps later, and it makes sense for them. They have to understand how the app will work and fit into their strategies, and to do that, they'll need to actually use the app. Market share isn't he only concern, despite the ravings of pundits. And besides, iOS's market share isn't insignificant.

Reply Score: 6

RE: It depends who's buyin'
by hobgoblin on Sat 15th Mar 2014 10:57 UTC in reply to "It depends who's buyin'"
hobgoblin Member since:
2005-07-06

Pretty much. I see quite a bit of puzzlement over why Google's own apps get more features implemented faster on iOS than on Android.

And i think the simple reason is that the people working on the customer facing stuff at Google are on Apple hardware, because web development courses have been mixed in with more general media courses.

Reply Score: 4

Is a turtle on a skateboard
by Kivada on Sat 15th Mar 2014 07:21 UTC
Kivada
Member since:
2010-07-07

faster then a hare? https://imgur.com/r/gifs/VPdJTDE

Or maybe Doge on a tortoise? https://imgur.com/gallery/XTHdjP9

Reply Score: 7

Uh hu, sure
by Soulbender on Sat 15th Mar 2014 07:45 UTC
Soulbender
Member since:
2005-08-18
I swear
by deathshadow on Sat 15th Mar 2014 07:51 UTC
deathshadow
Member since:
2005-07-12

Apple fanboys are having a hard time pushing their fantasy-land made up malarkey like that article with Jobbo the clown and his reality distortion field out of the picture...

What? Too soon?

Reply Score: 1

RE: I swear
by The123king on Sat 15th Mar 2014 17:43 UTC in reply to "I swear"
The123king Member since:
2009-05-28

Proof that Apple Haters are worse than Apple fanboys.

Reply Score: 4

who pays the most?
by REM2000 on Sat 15th Mar 2014 08:32 UTC
REM2000
Member since:
2006-07-25

I thought i read somewhere that on average iOS users pay more, buy more apps than android users? Sorry i can't seem to find it.

I think there is also a mindshare on iOS that whenever anyone thinks mobile phone apps they instantly think of the iPhone.

The other perception is that a greater number of android users over iPhone users pirate apps.

Reply Score: 4

RE: who pays the most?
by ricegf on Sat 15th Mar 2014 15:22 UTC in reply to "who pays the most?"
ricegf Member since:
2007-04-25

The other perception is that a greater number of android users over iPhone users pirate apps.


Is that really a perception? I have a really hard time finding a general interest app that lacks a free version, and those that aren't are usually $0.99 or so. Why would anybody bother to violate copyright on those?

Once I've used and enjoyed a free app for a while (in my case, Ruzzle and Words With Friends come to mind), I pay the nice people my $0.99 or whatever, and skip the ads.

A few million here, a few million there, and pretty soon we're talking real money!

So can you point to a major news source for the perception that Android apps are subject to frequent copyright violation? Or even hijacking a ship at sea, for that matter?

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: who pays the most?
by Lobotomik on Mon 17th Mar 2014 08:37 UTC in reply to "RE: who pays the most?"
Lobotomik Member since:
2006-01-03

That is something I find maddening in Androids app market. Practically ALL the apps are "free", but that "free" comes with strings attached: be bombarded by publicity, be constantly pressed into in-app purchases, suffer unstated feature limitations... Very often, you can get the full app after paying a ransom, but is is in general impossible to know how much will that be or exactly what does it imply until you have already installed the pseudo-free app and suffered its limitations.

I wrote an email to Google customer service saying it should be compulsory for apps in the store to state the cost for non-free and the limitations for free, but I guess I have been ignored.

This is not helped by the fact that hordes of Android users spew all sorts of bile at being "ripped off" when an app costs all of $5, and still value apps as shit when features are missing in the for-free version.

Edited 2014-03-17 08:40 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: who pays the most?
by ricegf on Mon 17th Mar 2014 11:16 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: who pays the most?"
ricegf Member since:
2007-04-25

More disclosure would be a good thing IMHO, but I tend to look at the common Android approach to games as a form of shareware - try it, and if you like it, you can buy it to enable the rest of the features or disable the ads.

In my case this is just for games - I strongly prefer FOSS for productivity apps, since in my experience I'm a lot more productive with FOSS than commercial (with a few exceptions).

I don't play games that require repeated in-app purchases, though. I've read those can be very expensive, but being (how did my wife put it, oh yeah) "tight with money", I don't enjoy a constant stream of money leaving my virtual wallet. Not fun.

The iOS app store (which I used back when I had my iPad) more often required payment up front. That meant I sometimes purchased apps that turned out to be useless, but it also meant I never had to pay later (I don't view it as a "ransom", but understand why you do). I think I prefer the Android approach a little, but can live with either. I guess YMMV.

Either approach makes the desktop Linux repositories packed with free-as-in-liberty apps look really, really good IMHO, though. :-)

Reply Score: 1

RE: who pays the most?
by tanishaj on Sat 15th Mar 2014 15:45 UTC in reply to "who pays the most?"
tanishaj Member since:
2010-12-22

I thought i read somewhere that on average iOS users pay more, buy more apps than android users? Sorry i can't seem to find it.


I have seen those numbers as well but not in a while. Perhaps that is because it is becoming less true. Then again, I have seen numbers that claim that BlackBerry users pay more than either Android or iOS. That is not what matters.

In a world where Android devices outnumber iOS devices three to one, Android devs will bring in twice as much revenue even if iOS users spend twice as much per capita. That is just math.

I think there is also a mindshare on iOS that whenever anyone thinks mobile phone apps they instantly think of the iPhone.


I would agree. I also predict that this will change. In fact, I think it is already getting rare that people think ONLY of the iPhone. After all, doesn't it make sense to think of the phone YOU have and that your friends have. Increasingly, those phones run Android.

The other perception is that a greater number of android users over iPhone users pirate apps.


Again, I would agree. I have this perception myself. Windows certainly sees more piracy than OS X but which platform attracts more developers? Again, it is just math.

Use the same three to one ratio of Android to iOS devices. Even if 50% of Android users pirate and 0% of iOS ones do (which is obviously not right), there are still 50% more non-pirating (paying) Android customers than there are iOS customers.

I believe that Android will eventually outsell iOS eight to one or more. Apple will almost certainly always be a profitable niche for developers but it is just plain crazy to claim that iOS has won the market.

Reply Score: 5

RE: who pays the most?
by l3v1 on Sun 16th Mar 2014 14:18 UTC in reply to "who pays the most?"
l3v1 Member since:
2005-07-06

I thought i read somewhere that on average iOS users pay more, buy more apps than android users? Sorry i can't seem to find it.

That might have been true for a while, until the Android userbase reached high enough numbers. The - not totally incorrect - perception was, that one can set higher prices if the app is for iOS and users will pay for it if it's any good. However, produce a high enough number of potential users, and suddenly a lower price will produce higher revenue in a larger crowd. The same goes for the quality of apps as well - a higher number of apps brings more garbage, however, there are also more good ones, they're just harder to find for a new user, who doesn't know where and how to look and gets confused by the sheer number of potential junk apps.

Anyway, going back to the topic of the quote, I'd say it's almost as simple as more-users-spend-more. And it's not just the cheapskates and the low income people who are on android these days. But you also have to consider the market you want to target, and in large parts of the U.S. Apple is still held in higher regard.

Edited 2014-03-16 14:19 UTC

Reply Score: 3

Evi(l)dence? First, it is just a snapshot ...
by pica on Sat 15th Mar 2014 08:56 UTC
pica
Member since:
2005-07-10

... nobody knows what the situation will be in a year or two.

Secondly, it is an application with a minor impact. Microsoft Office would be a punch, but this app is not.

Third point: Is the reality distortion field still active?

Greetings,
pica

Reply Score: 4

War?
by kwan_e on Sat 15th Mar 2014 09:10 UTC
kwan_e
Member since:
2007-02-18

Was there another meaningless war? Sorry, I didn't realize.

Reply Score: 4

RE: War?
by Vanders on Sat 15th Mar 2014 17:18 UTC in reply to "War?"
Vanders Member since:
2005-07-06

If we don't have meaningless "wars" and claim "victory" every now and again, how will we ever validate our own meaningless choices?

Reply Score: 5

It's the money
by ano69 on Sat 15th Mar 2014 09:51 UTC
ano69
Member since:
2006-07-07

It's all about the money. If we put Windows Phone on the list, it would be something like 50:15:1 (iOS/Android/WP8) for paid apps (based on real data of my products).

No wonder why WP8 apps are usually not fully featured versions found in other OSes, or lag behind on version numbers (e.g. updated rarely).

Reply Score: 3

YMMV, but......
by brichpmr on Sat 15th Mar 2014 13:44 UTC
brichpmr
Member since:
2006-04-22

I have more quality apps on my iPad Air and iPhone 5 than I can actually use; so it would be a fact for me that all or most of those Android-only pieces are not missed in the slightest. And, the ecosystem that supports the IOS apps is rather excellent, in my experience. Comes down to what you actually use your devices for.

One example: I have been a subscriber to the Berlin Philharmonic Digital Concert Hall since 2009. Their hi def video and audio streams of live and archived concerts have supported IOS devices for several years. They are just getting around to supporting Android devices beginning this Spring.

Reply Score: 4

Comment
by pandronic on Sat 15th Mar 2014 14:54 UTC
pandronic
Member since:
2006-05-18

This morning I torrented the latest episode of Community, downloaded a subtitle, unzipped it and casted it to my TV via Chromecast. Could you do something like this using Apple's ecosystem? Not trolling, just curious.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Comment
by sergio on Sat 15th Mar 2014 15:03 UTC in reply to "Comment"
sergio Member since:
2005-07-06

Sure!

TVShows/SickBeard -> Bittorrent/sabnzb -> Beamer -> AppleTV

if the video is h264 you can use iTunes directly

TVShows/Sickbear -> Bittorrent/sabnzb -> "Automatically Add to iTunes" folder -> AirPlay -> any iDevice

You can even use your iPhone as remote.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Comment
by pandronic on Sat 15th Mar 2014 16:47 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment"
pandronic Member since:
2006-05-18

That's neat, color me surprised.

Reply Score: 3

It is just timing
by tanishaj on Sat 15th Mar 2014 15:20 UTC
tanishaj
Member since:
2010-12-22

In my opinion, saying iOS has won versus Android right now is like saying that MacOS won over Windows in 1986.

To paraphrase Steve Ballmer "Developers! Developers! Developers!". A huge ecosystem of developers, developer expertise, developer training, and developer tools built up around Apple before Android started taking share. Developers know they can make money on iOS. They are just now starting to realize they can make money on Android.

Today, mobile devs and mobile shops have more expertise and experience in the iOS market. It makes sense they would release for iOS first. The Android ecosystem has the momentum now though and the shift will come.

New developers will be more likely to learn Android. Developer resources (like training and tooling) will become more and more Android focussed. Over time, apps will come first for Android because that is the larger market. Eventually, I expect many devs will be Android only as they do not want to learn multiple languages and/or multiple tools.

Cross-platform is a much bigger story than it was with desktop though. So, iOS is in good shape for a really long time.

Reply Score: 4

RE: It is just timing
by ricegf on Sat 15th Mar 2014 16:18 UTC in reply to "It is just timing"
ricegf Member since:
2007-04-25

Today, mobile devs and mobile shops have more expertise and experience in the iOS market. It makes sense they would release for iOS first.


I believe the concentration of iOS devices into just a few quite similar models probably helps a lot. The variety of Android devices is massive, which led to 80%+ world market share but also a lot more variety with which developers and the support teams must deal.

It's a blessing. And a curse.

Reply Score: 3

RE: It is just timing
by leos on Sun 16th Mar 2014 23:24 UTC in reply to "It is just timing"
leos Member since:
2005-09-21

To paraphrase Steve Ballmer "Developers! Developers! Developers!". A huge ecosystem of developers, developer expertise, developer training, and developer tools built up around Apple before Android started taking share. Developers know they can make money on iOS. They are just now starting to realize they can make money on Android.

Today, mobile devs and mobile shops have more expertise and experience in the iOS market. It makes sense they would release for iOS first. The Android ecosystem has the momentum now though and the shift will come.

New developers will be more likely to learn Android. Developer resources (like training and tooling) will become more and more Android focussed. Over time, apps will come first for Android because that is the larger market. Eventually, I expect many devs will be Android only as they do not want to learn multiple languages and/or multiple tools.

Cross-platform is a much bigger story than it was with desktop though. So, iOS is in good shape for a really long time.


I think that's the key. The idea that apps will be developed separately for iOS, Android, Windows Phone, Blackberry, Windows, Mac, Linux just isn't sustainable. Yes the big players will still do native to get the best experience on each platform, but for the small companies it just isn't feasible. The rise of good cross platform solutions like Qt or Unity on mobile will mean more and more that releasing on Android and iOS (and Blackberry and WP) will become more common, but it won't be with fully "native" apps.

Reply Score: 3

Location
by Jbso on Sat 15th Mar 2014 16:19 UTC
Jbso
Member since:
2013-01-05

iOS certainly tends to get app support first in the US, and probably some other wealthy Western countries, and likely Japan. I'd like to hear from somebody from India, though, or Russia, Brazil, etc. Is iOS still the goto platform there?

Reply Score: 3

RE: Location
by moondevil on Sat 15th Mar 2014 16:47 UTC in reply to "Location"
moondevil Member since:
2005-07-08

In southern Europe you will be in the top society layer if you happen to own an iOS device.

The majority owns whatever they can use with their 500 - 1000 € monthly meagre salary.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Location
by ebasconp on Sat 15th Mar 2014 22:03 UTC in reply to "RE: Location"
ebasconp Member since:
2006-05-09

You are right, in South America things are similar; almost all people has cheap not-smartphone or Chinese with-old-Android-version smartphones because the high prices of iPhones make them unreachable for the masses (consider 300 US dollar an average salary per month compared with a 900 US dollar iPhone [yes, they cost like that right here]).

Edited 2014-03-15 22:04 UTC

Reply Score: 6

Apple Won?
by jazman777 on Sat 15th Mar 2014 18:50 UTC
jazman777
Member since:
2013-02-27

Congratulations. Now what?

Reply Score: 2

Really?
by Windows Sucks on Sat 15th Mar 2014 21:06 UTC
Windows Sucks
Member since:
2005-11-10

Come on.

Apple has more loyal users, Apples users spend more, Apple users keep their devices longer, Apple devices pass through more hands, and more of Apples users have updated devices so they are more consistent.

I mean there is nothing to question, Android is a mess of fragmentation.

I think people really believe that they can compare Android to Windows. But when Windows took the lead over the Mac. Windows back then was not open source so everything was consistent. Every person who got Windows got the same version (Minus bloatware)

Android will always be second for developers. Also I still don't know if I believe their are more active Android users then iOS users. Its been shown time and time again that there are not.

Reply Score: 1

RE: Really?
by Kivada on Sat 15th Mar 2014 22:35 UTC in reply to "Really?"
Kivada Member since:
2010-07-07

Very true, theres even Andriod 4.1 devices that can't even access the Play Store. My uncle just picked up a Klu tablet for his kid, comes with Android 4.1, but cannot install the Play Store.

I could install the Amazon store, though in a very half assed way, you had to use the Amazon site to load apps into your cloud list so that the Amazon app could maybe install them. Most didn't show in the list at all and half of those that did it said it couldn't install.

This is the real problem with Android and ARM, it's way too fragmented. If it where running a real Linux distro the only limiting factor for the games his daughter wanted to play would be those of CPU/GPU performance. Not ones of if hardware XYZ was blessed by walled garden A, B or C.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Really?
by Windows Sucks on Sat 15th Mar 2014 23:43 UTC in reply to "RE: Really?"
Windows Sucks Member since:
2005-11-10

Right. Perfect example Google wallet click to purchase feature starting next week will require Kit-Kat. Ok that's about 12% of active Android users. So all white box, cheap, un updated devices will not work.

I have updated my LG Optimus G Pro (which is new) to Cyanogenmod 11 to get Kit-Kat. Cool but now half my apps don't work. Like the Pay Pal App. Can't install it. Is that cause I am using a Rom or is it because of the OS level? I don't know.

It's a mess. While on iOS as a developer you don't have to deal with most of those issues. I mean crap the iPhone 4 is still supported with current APIs in 7.1 and all new apps.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Really?
by Lobotomik on Mon 17th Mar 2014 08:47 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Really?"
Lobotomik Member since:
2006-01-03

Not to talk about the fabulous third party ROMs you can install in the iPhone and still be compatible.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Really?
by Soulbender on Sun 16th Mar 2014 08:28 UTC in reply to "Really?"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

You are confusing your own opinions for facts.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Really?
by Windows Sucks on Sun 16th Mar 2014 21:05 UTC in reply to "RE: Really?"
Windows Sucks Member since:
2005-11-10

Which facts are we missing?

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Really?
by moondevil on Mon 17th Mar 2014 12:40 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Really?"
moondevil Member since:
2005-07-08

That outside US, the majority of countries aren't iOS land.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Really?
by Windows Sucks on Tue 18th Mar 2014 01:42 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Really?"
Windows Sucks Member since:
2005-11-10

No out side the US its not iOS land, but most people wish it was. Apple just doesn't make a cheap phone so Android is the only choice.

That said those cheap devices can't run all Android software, they are mostly not up to date etc.

And Apple users still spend more since the Play Store is not the big deal outside the US ether.

In the end, if you want to make the money, stick with iOS.

Reply Score: 2

Comment by The123king
by The123king on Sat 15th Mar 2014 23:41 UTC
The123king
Member since:
2009-05-28

Sure, you have to disregard those gazilion Android applications iOS could never support (keyboards, launchers, SMS applications, browsers, task switchers, lock screens, etc., and so on, and so forth), but if you do that, then yes, iOS has won.


For someone who writes and edits articles for a site called "OSNews", you seem to live under a rock, Thom. You could quite easily include all those "tweaks" (They're not applications, you don't use them in the same way) by including the massive plethora of Cydia repos, which contain many free and paid tweaks for the iOS platform. These span from "simple" themes and font changes to full-blown app switcher reimplementations like Dock or the Notification Centre rework called Intelliscreen X. And of course, you can't forget things such as SBSettings, which have been doing since iOS 3(?) what Apple only introduced in iOS 7.

Now if you include Cydia, then Apple have truly won the "application" war.

Reply Score: 4

As an app developer
by h5n1xp on Sun 16th Mar 2014 00:48 UTC
h5n1xp
Member since:
2013-08-24

I write apps for iOS and Android, and the iOS apps sell... The Android ones don't so much. Then after a few weeks I can find my Android apps have been pirated. So I don't really bother to keep the Android apps fresh, better just to keep them a few versions behind the iOS version and release them for free with Ads. ;)

Apple maybe a**holes with locking down their devices, but the lack of piracy means I can sell apps for 99p and keep them regularly updated.

Reply Score: 6

RE: As an app developer
by _txf_ on Sun 16th Mar 2014 03:04 UTC in reply to "As an app developer"
_txf_ Member since:
2008-03-17

I personally go the route of rewarding the developer that actually supports the platform.

Often if there is an android only app I'll prefer it over an ios port. This way I know that the developer is thinking primarily about the platform I care about. I know I'm not the only one that feels this way...

Edited 2014-03-16 03:06 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: As an app developer
by leos on Mon 17th Mar 2014 04:07 UTC in reply to "RE: As an app developer"
leos Member since:
2005-09-21

I personally go the route of rewarding the developer that actually supports the platform.

Often if there is an android only app I'll prefer it over an ios port. This way I know that the developer is thinking primarily about the platform I care about. I know I'm not the only one that feels this way...


You are basing your app choices on whether that app also exists for other platforms or not? That is... highly illogical.

Reply Score: 5

RE: As an app developer
by izomiac on Sun 16th Mar 2014 04:26 UTC in reply to "As an app developer"
izomiac Member since:
2006-07-26

Are you sure you're comparing apples to apples?

Are you more skilled at making iOS apps than android apps?

Is the android version of your app a clone of the iOS version, complete with iOS motifs and not taking advantage of any of android's unique features? (E.g. splashscreens VS instant loading.)

Android has a more open marketplace. Do you have stronger competitors in android that diminish your sales?

Are you developing for all phone/tablet variants or focusing on iPhone/iPad style devices? Does your app handle different aspect ratios, screen sizes, and pixel densities well?

Does your app have features that make sense with iOS restrictions (e.g. no replacing core functions), but less so on android?

Do you you allocate your development time in accordance to number of potential users, or do you favor the iOS version? E.g. Android shipped 4 times as many devices, if you split your cumulative development time equally between the two platforms then iOS users get 4 times more attention, leading to a faster, more stable, more feature-rich app for them.


I suspect you're akin to someone who runs a successful BBQ restaurant in the Southern US who tries to transplant it to the Middle East without changing the menu or marketing. Of course, maybe your target (paying) customers prefer Apple devices. A lot of hipsters and non-technical professionals fall into this category.

Edited 2014-03-16 04:34 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: As an app developer
by The123king on Sun 16th Mar 2014 05:35 UTC in reply to "RE: As an app developer"
The123king Member since:
2009-05-28

I don't think Apple deserves being painted by the "used by non-technical" brush. Pretty much everyone i know who is non-technical and has a smartphone uses an Android one. Why? Because it's cheap. Many of those same people don't even attach their credit card to it (maybe because they don't know how) and rely on either free or even the stock apps that come with it.

I think most of the technically naive flock to Android, purely because it has "the internets and google" and because it's often the cheapest phone in the shop.

Getting back to TFA, I believe that the reason Apple is where the money from apps is, is due to both the technically naive (who can't/won't buy anything anything regardless of platform, but flock to Android devices because they're cheap) and the fact the iPhone is a locked down platform, making it hard to pirate apps

Edited 2014-03-16 05:41 UTC

Reply Score: 6

RE[3]: As an app developer
by izomiac on Sun 16th Mar 2014 09:14 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: As an app developer"
izomiac Member since:
2006-07-26

By "non-technical" I mean they aren't in IT and are platform agnostic. By "professionals" I mean they are not very price sensitive. Sorry for not making that clear, I was trying to be concise with my concession.

A more verbose explanation is that iPhones are much more popular in certain industries. Medicine is the first example that comes to mind. (Lots of market research has been done on this, I'd provide links but I'm on a tablet right now.) If you're writing a medical database then a disproportionate number of your potential users will be using iOS. Perhaps the GP poster's app is in a field such as this and there just aren't as many android users hence why he has so few sales of his app in the Play store.

As for app piracy, I haven't seen it in the wild personally. I think that explanation is insufficient. For Titanium Backup, sure, most customers are going to be able to pirate it. For Touchdown E-mail, pirates may account for a decent number of users, but virtually no potential customers. Understanding that distinction is vitally important.

Plus, realistically, there's not going to be a serious difference between iOS piracy and android unless there's a lack of interest. Bluray has ridiculously sophisticated anti-piracy mechanisms that still aren't really broken, yet movie piracy is endemic. It only takes a single cracker to facilitate piracy of an app or movie, and neither iOS nor android can stop 100% of crackers. If there was serious interest in piracy, and it were difficult in iOS (your premise), then why would iOS customers repurchase iOS devices at the rate they do? People only act like sheep when it comes to things they're apathetic about.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: As an app developer
by leos on Mon 17th Mar 2014 04:11 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: As an app developer"
leos Member since:
2005-09-21

Plus, realistically, there's not going to be a serious difference between iOS piracy and android unless there's a lack of interest.


This is of course incorrect. Much easier to pirate apps on Android.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: As an app developer
by leos on Mon 17th Mar 2014 04:14 UTC in reply to "RE: As an app developer"
leos Member since:
2005-09-21

Is the android version of your app a clone of the iOS version, complete with iOS motifs and not taking advantage of any of android's unique features? (E.g. splashscreens VS instant loading.)


By instant loading you mean the lack of a splash screen. There is no such thing as instant loading. Obviously the app still needs to load whether it shows a splash screen or not.

Do you you allocate your development time in accordance to number of potential users, or do you favor the iOS version? E.g. Android shipped 4 times as many devices, if you split your cumulative development time equally between the two platforms then iOS users get 4 times more attention, leading to a faster, more stable, more feature-rich app for them.


This does not make sense. If my app has 1 user it will take just as much time to develop as if it has 1,000,000 users. Yes those extra users might find a couple extra bugs, but it certainly doesn't scale with user base.

A lot of hipsters and non-technical professionals fall into this category.


Actually the evidence is that higher-income individuals fall into that category.

Reply Score: 5

RE: As an app developer
by leos on Mon 17th Mar 2014 04:07 UTC in reply to "As an app developer"
leos Member since:
2005-09-21

I write apps for iOS and Android, and the iOS apps sell... The Android ones don't so much. Then after a few weeks I can find my Android apps have been pirated. So I don't really bother to keep the Android apps fresh, better just to keep them a few versions behind the iOS version and release them for free with Ads. ;)

Apple maybe a**holes with locking down their devices, but the lack of piracy means I can sell apps for 99p and keep them regularly updated.


I just wanted to say thanks for offering paid apps without ads. Nothing I hate more than ads in apps, and on Android that is often the only option. I'd rather pay $1 or $2 or $3 or more for good apps if it means they won't have ads.

Reply Score: 5

Fuck both of them.
by tidux on Sun 16th Mar 2014 05:29 UTC
tidux
Member since:
2011-08-13

I'm getting an Ubuntu phone as soon as they work up to 3G on T-Mobile's network.

Reply Score: 2

Are we talking apps or hardware?
by Priest on Mon 17th Mar 2014 00:15 UTC
Priest
Member since:
2006-05-12

Because right now they both have a pretty solid base of apps. I agree though that when some company like square comes around they tend to support iPhone much sooner.

When you look at a lot of hardware projects on Kickstarter etc. that are meant to work along side mobile phones it is frequently iPhone they are working with.

Many automobiles have iPhone/iPod integration built in so you just dock the phone in the arm rest and use the automotive controls/speakers to control it.

There are a lot of things around the corner like the Romo robot that are using iPhone to do cool things but don't support Android yet. If Google is paying attention they would be making huge efforts to design a specification that caters to these types of projects in a standard way.

They have half the company working on how to like, advance Google+ yet something as hugely important to the future success of Android as this gets very little attention.

Facebook is out, mobile is in. They need to spend less energy trying to compete against Facebook and more on being the platform people look to first for the next generation of products and apps.

Reply Score: 4

I would have thought
by siraf72 on Mon 17th Mar 2014 08:19 UTC
siraf72
Member since:
2006-02-22

This is very relevant:

http://blog.gogoair.com/?p=193

Putting aside the nonsense about "app wars" - for it's clear both platforms have reached a critical mass with healthy eco systems, Isn't what happens on a plane actually relevant?

What if, as the (albeit slightly dated) link above shows, the majority of users *on a plane* are iOS users? Then the decision to go with iOS first is a no brainer.

Reply Score: 5

The (few) Insanely Great Apps
by Lobotomik on Mon 17th Mar 2014 09:07 UTC
Lobotomik
Member since:
2006-01-03

I am into Android, and I like it a lot. I used an iPhone4 for a long time, but no more. I find Android more customizable, less patronising, easy to operate without ever using a PC and having to funnel everything through my pet hate, iTunes. I like having widgets in my home screen showing the latest emails, facebook activity, agenda events, etcetera.

That said, there are some Insanely Great apps for the iPhone that are sadly missing for Android: In particular, I am thinking of Garage Band and iMovies, but there are surely a few others in this vein. They are not only very good, there is nothing in Android even trying to remotely compare. Or, please, disprove me!

How come is it that phones that can shoot HD video effortlessly do no effort at providing a nice app clip and paste your video takes into a watchable video? Why has nobody provided a nice music tool for Android to use on the go? No wonder the artisty types go for Apple (that and the chintzy feeling).

Reply Score: 3

RE: The (few) Insanely Great Apps
by dsmogor on Mon 17th Mar 2014 17:17 UTC in reply to "The (few) Insanely Great Apps"
dsmogor Member since:
2005-09-01

Android still has a big problem with touch to sound latency which makes interactive sound apps unpractical.

Reply Score: 4

Discussing angels and pinheads
by Tony Swash on Mon 17th Mar 2014 15:18 UTC
Tony Swash
Member since:
2009-08-22

Talk of either Android or iOS ‘wining’ or ‘losing’ is just silly. Both platforms are demonstrable strong and successful. Both platforms have strengths and weaknesses, or more accurately different characteristics as platforms. Neither will disappear or be marginalised. Being the platform with the minority of units shipped has clearly not damaged iOS as a platform/ecosystem and being the platform with the majority of units shipped has clearly not delivered significant platform/ecosystem advantages to Android. Both will be the two big players in mobile for the foreseeable future. Both can live happily together in the mobile device markets.

Reply Score: 2

Where Iphone / Ipad wins
by dsmogor on Mon 17th Mar 2014 17:24 UTC
dsmogor
Member since:
2005-09-01

is the category of apps that require careful support for each version of hw, like ones that must be calibrated to device mic / speaker power, exact behavior of its sensors, screen DPI, device physical dimensions, supported HW interfaces.
These kinds of apps are only realistic on Iphone / IPad bc it's still practical to test them on every single hw supported.
On Android this could be emulated by e.g. Samsung by courting devs of such apps on IOS so that they develop specially on their flagships and I believe Samsung thinks about it but didn't figure out how to carry it out yet.

Edited 2014-03-17 17:25 UTC

Reply Score: 3

what are the iOS-only killer apps?
by moxfyre on Wed 19th Mar 2014 19:31 UTC
moxfyre
Member since:
2007-10-18

I'm a happy Android user and have kept my distance from all Apple products for a long tone, so maybe in out of the loop but...

What are the iOS exclusives that Android doesn't have? I've never heard of an app that interested me, gone looking for it, and found it was iOS-only. The only examples I've even heard of are early versions of various social media apps.

I can think of plenty of Android exclusive killer apps, with Google Maps Navigation being the longest standing one, and Swype and now Android's built-in gesture keyboard as another.

While helping my mom set up her iPad, I found that most decent iPhone apps are "freemium" paid apps and that many of my favorite open source apps (eg AntennaPod pod caster or FeedEx reader) don't exist for iOS.

Reply Score: 1