Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 3rd Jun 2014 18:24 UTC
PDAs, Cellphones, Wireless

My love and appreciation for Palm OS is somewhat obvious around these parts, culminating in the detailed Palm OS retrospective I wrote a little over a year ago. I consider Palm OS to be the shoulders on which all subsequent mobile operating systems are built, and I believe it would do the current technology press and users a world of good if they acquainted themselves with this prescient masterpiece.

That being said, with Palm OS being old and dead, the only way to experience it is to get your hands on a real device on eBay or its local equivalent in your country of residence. If you go down this route - which I strongly advise everyone to at least look into - try and go for the ultimate Palm device, the Palm T|X. It's the most advanced PDA Palm ever built, and you can pry mine from my cold, dead hands.

Sadly, not everyone has the disposable income, time, will, desire, or any combination thereof, to go out and buy real hardware just to play with a dead operating system and all the hardships that come with it. Since I still want to spread the word of Palm OS, I've been looking into an alternative - namely, the Palm OS Simulator.

Order by: Score:
Palm T|X is not #1
by SeeM on Tue 3rd Jun 2014 19:16 UTC
SeeM
Member since:
2011-09-10

I think that most powerfull Palm is Centro. Smaller screen, but functional Google Maps out of the box it's something that T|X cannot do. GSM module also helps. ;)

Reply Score: 2

RE: Palm T|X is not #1
by Thom_Holwerda on Tue 3rd Jun 2014 19:18 UTC in reply to "Palm T|X is not #1"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Centro has a keyboard. Yuck.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Palm T|X is not #1
by Morgan on Tue 3rd Jun 2014 22:36 UTC in reply to "RE: Palm T|X is not #1"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

I loved the keyboard on my Treo 650, my first smartphone, and in fact I still consider it better than any keyboard Blackberry released. I do wish there had been a phone version of the Sony Clie NX-73 with better keyboard buttons; that device put the keyboard on a base that flipped out of the way when not in use. That was probably the best non-Palm-produced PalmOS device out there.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Palm T|X is not #1
by smashIt on Wed 4th Jun 2014 20:14 UTC in reply to "RE: Palm T|X is not #1"
smashIt Member since:
2005-07-06

Centro has a keyboard. Yuck.


i prefer psion over palm
but i like keyboards ;)

Reply Score: 2

RE: Palm T|X is not #1
by diederick on Wed 4th Jun 2014 09:13 UTC in reply to "Palm T|X is not #1"
diederick Member since:
2014-03-09

I never had any problems running Google Maps on my T|X. I also remember it had a calendar app that's still better than anything I've found for Android. The only drawback is that it was too slow to play video.

Reply Score: 2

Best Palm Device.
by judgen on Wed 4th Jun 2014 00:10 UTC
judgen
Member since:
2006-07-12

I would claim that the LifeDrive is the best PalmOS device, with the best CPU, GPU, Screen resolution, durability (metal casing instead of plastic), the best sound chip of any Palm device and can do accelerated video (codecs are downloadable from lonely cat or TCMP homepages for non-default video files).
It also boasts a CF slot that is populated by a Toshiba MicroDrive by default but can be replaced with a 64gb CF card along with a 32gb SDHC (and probably more) card as long as you have the PowerDrive and SDHC drivers from http://www.palmpowerups.com/index.php totalling about 100gb storage. The devices might be able to larger as mentioned on their site, but i have not tried any larger than those min my LifeDrives. But my guess is the 32bit adressing would make the absolute maximum 128gb CF+128gb SDHC at a total of 256gb.

It also allows for easy overclocking, and if you find the anniversary edition or pre-launch edition (the one i have) you also have a foldable full keyboard you can use for coding and the tripletelescopit stylus that is super lift in comparison to other models (i prefer the heavier model though, but it not as pretty).

Some software Designed for the lifedrive does not work on other Palm devices whilst all Garnet programs for other devices works perfectly on the LD.

Opera, Documents2Go, PocketTunes, and TCMP (the core media player) are my three favourite picks for using with the LifeDrive, and luckily licenses was included for all those programs (not pro version of D2G though, but the upgrade was rather cheap anyways.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Best Palm Device.
by hobgoblin on Wed 4th Jun 2014 14:38 UTC in reply to "Best Palm Device."
hobgoblin Member since:
2005-07-06

If you look at the Lifedrive the right way, Palm did the iPod Touch before Apple.

Reply Score: 2

POSE
by henderson101 on Wed 4th Jun 2014 11:31 UTC
henderson101
Member since:
2006-05-30

That looks more like POSE (Palm OS Emulator) not the Palm OS Simulator. The Simulator ran on Macs back when Palm OS use CodeWarrior and prior to them acquiring POSE (originally called CoPilot.) The Simulator ran Palm Apps much like the iOS emulator does, compiled to native code. So, really, it's completely different to what Thom found.

As the site seems to be in Portuguese, I'm guessing it's a translation error?

Also - it's not running x86 PalmOS, it's running 68000 and some ARM under emulation.

Edited 2014-06-04 11:32 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE: POSE
by javispedro on Wed 4th Jun 2014 12:33 UTC in reply to "POSE"
javispedro Member since:
2014-06-04

Actually it is the simulator, why do you think it is not? Simulator also had ROM file for resources, etc. which were not stored in the DLLs.

I think Thom did a great job describing how it worked. It is, as you described too, like the iOS simulator: it runs x86 PalmOS and x86 armlets, including x86 PACE, which emulates m68k.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: POSE
by henderson101 on Wed 4th Jun 2014 14:02 UTC in reply to "RE: POSE"
henderson101 Member since:
2006-05-30

Oh right... that does seem cool. But pointless. Same as with iOS, it's only useful for basic testing, it's not as good as having a real device.

Reply Score: 2

RE: POSE
by Thom_Holwerda on Wed 4th Jun 2014 12:46 UTC in reply to "POSE"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

This is 100% the simulator, and NOT the emulator.

The emulator only runs 4.x and below, not 5.x.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: POSE
by henderson101 on Wed 4th Jun 2014 14:06 UTC in reply to "RE: POSE"
henderson101 Member since:
2006-05-30

So, basically, they went back to non native development targets for testing. Interesting. I guess that's okay, but my experience with iOS dev was that the simulator is only as useful as a general "pointer" to real behaviour.

Reply Score: 2

RE: POSE
by udif on Wed 4th Jun 2014 21:25 UTC in reply to "POSE"
udif Member since:
2014-06-04

The links are indeed pointers to the simulator, which is PalmOS precompiled for x86, with an emulator for the m68k stuff.

HOWEVER, there WAS a REAL emulator for PalmOS 5 devices.
It was mentioned on Palm's developer website.
It was only available to those subscribed to Palm's for-pay development program, so I never actually saw it.

It was code-named "Janeiro", and that's about the only thing I knew about this tool, although when I still cared, I really looked for this tool everywhere (never found it).

The main reason I wanted it was because it was the only way I could ever get Paragon's localization software for Palm working. It was machine-specific, and never worked on the simulator.

Reply Score: 2

Vote for the Tungsten 3
by Machster on Wed 4th Jun 2014 14:12 UTC
Machster
Member since:
2007-05-15

While I share your love of Palm OS, that love would have stopped when Palm introduced NVRAM. From then on it was never the same: Palm OS was meant to run and be stored entirely in RAM.

NVRAM was introduced to satisfy users who would let the battery drain without a backup. Unfortunately, NVRAM also introduced instability and performance issues. The later devices were noticeably less responsive. Utilities sprang up to try to fix the cache problems but were not entirely successful.

If someone wanted to explore the actual hardware I can recommend the Tungsten 3 which also came with the fastest processor incorporated into a Palm: 400mhz. Unfortunately, the highest capacity SD card that could be used was 1.5gb if one could find it. I use a 1 gb.

Palm was never known for their screen quality but unlike the subsequent models, which suffered from a lack of brightness and were heavily blue tinted, the screen on the T3 (and the TC) was decent, even by today's standards. None of these can come close to the resolution of today's screens, but most could be easily read in the daylight due to their trans-reflective screen technology.

I can also recommend the ill-fated Tapwave Zodiac with a caveat. The Zodiac was meant to be a Palm OS gaming machine with its built in joy stick and shoulder triggers. Unfortunately for Tapwave it came out just before the Sony PSP was announced. It only came with a 200mhz processor (which the makers claimed was fast enough) but it did incorporate a separate gpu for very smooth graphics. Both versions had two SD slots that could take up to 2 gb each. The caveat was/is that the hardware, specifically the resistive-touch screen and the joy stick, suffered accuracy issues. Getting one without these issues might be difficult.

It should be noted that the applications for Palm were small in size so the devices did not need a lot of storage space or RAM to begin with.

Edited 2014-06-04 14:16 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE: Vote for the Tungsten 3
by Thom_Holwerda on Wed 4th Jun 2014 14:21 UTC in reply to "Vote for the Tungsten 3"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

I have a T3, but I dislike the slider. Too clunky for my tastes.

Reply Score: 1

ah, Palm...
by hobgoblin on Wed 4th Jun 2014 14:40 UTC
hobgoblin
Member since:
2005-07-06

Closest i came to a Palm device was running a Access offered emulator on my Nokia N800.

Reply Score: 2

RE: ah, Palm...
by Machster on Wed 4th Jun 2014 15:21 UTC in reply to "ah, Palm..."
Machster Member since:
2007-05-15

Yup,but it had many limitations. In landscape view it was too small and in landscape it scaled horribly. It is best forgotten.

Reply Score: 2

perpendox
Member since:
2014-06-04

The Simulator is the ARM/OS5 version of POSE, the Palm OS Emulator, which was the M68k/OS4 tool.

POSE ran on Windows, Macs, and Linux, with full source code available under the GPL. And now there's a port to Android called PHEM (Palm Hardware Emulator M68k). They'll run Palm OS 1.0 all the way to 4.1 (the last M68k version of Palm OS). PHEM integrates well with Android; shared clipboard, multiple sessions, software and hardware keyboard support, networking, even serial port and GPS access.

POSE and PHEM do need Palm ROM images, but that PDAExpert.net site also has those images. Or, you can download ROM images off a physical Palm and use them with POSE or PHEM.

Reply Score: 2

I had so many of them
by udif on Wed 4th Jun 2014 21:30 UTC
udif
Member since:
2014-06-04

Palm V (Quickly replaced by a Vx with my brother)
Sony Clie UX-50
Treo 680
Tungsten C (got it cheaply as 2nd hand)
Fossil Wrist PDA (bought at liquidation price)

Reply Score: 2

qemu
by Lennie on Thu 5th Jun 2014 07:51 UTC
Lennie
Member since:
2007-09-22

Would it not be a better choice to use QEMU to simulate ARM ? then you can run the ARM-applications.

Similar to: http://xecdesign.com/qemu-emulating-raspberry-pi-the-easy-way/

Reply Score: 2

During the day I loved Palm too but ...
by Sabon on Thu 5th Jun 2014 17:57 UTC
Sabon
Member since:
2005-07-06

During the day I loved Palm too but I'll draw a comparison where Palm doesn't look so good other than a past OS I used and romanticize about.

Girls haven't gotten any cuter than they were back when I was growing up. Fashions may have changed and what people consider cute is in the eyes of the beholder but with the fashions updates on girls from back then they would still be cute.

Take Palm though. Palm is that same girl only now she is a grandmother and 99% of boys wouldn't think that is hot. And today, compared to the newest cell phones out there, well the iPhone blew that kind of cell phone out of the water and Palm is gone after they got fat and lazy and kept their interface too long.

Again, I loved it at the time. It did amazing things for me like even being able to connect a modem to it and dialing up a desktop computer and being able to direct it to do what I needed it to do. As well as being my PDA.

Compared to today though. Sorry.

Reply Score: 1