Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 30th Dec 2015 23:57 UTC, submitted by Nth_Man
Debian and its clones

With a heavy heart Debian mourns the passing of Ian Murdock, stalwart proponent of Free Open Source Software, Father, Son, and the 'ian' in Debian.

Ian started the Debian project in August of 1993, releasing the first versions of Debian later that same year. Debian would go on to become the world's Universal Operating System, running on everything from embedded devices to the space station.

Ian's sharp focus was on creating a Distribution and community culture that did the right thing, be it ethically, or technically. Releases went out when they were ready, and the project's staunch stance on Software Freedom are the gold standards in the Free and Open Source world.

Debian - or anything Debian-based - is my distribution of choice, and there's no denying just how much Debian has contributed to the Linux world.

My thoughts are with his family and friends.

Order by: Score:
Shocked
by sbergman27 on Thu 31st Dec 2015 00:47 UTC
sbergman27
Member since:
2005-07-24

This comes as quite a shock to to me. I'm 53. Ian was 42. It's just not right. People shouldn't die at 42. But I invite people to consider the question "What if?". What if there had never been an Ian Murdock? What if there had never been a Debian? How would the the Linux landscape... even the world... be different today? (Consider all the embedded devices you depend upon.) What if Red Hat had been the only big distro family to survive to the present? We owe a great debt to Ian. I love Red Hat, too. But it is a different company than it would have been if things had been different.

Reply Score: 8

RE: Shocked
by sergio on Thu 31st Dec 2015 05:26 UTC in reply to "Shocked"
sergio Member since:
2005-07-06

What if there had never been an Ian Murdock? What if there had never been a Debian? How would the the Linux landscape... even the world... be different today?


Well, in a world without Debian, maybe Slackware could've been the "de facto" nonRedHat Linux distro... in fact, Slackware was it until very late 90s and early 00s when Debian started to get really popular (thanks to DEBs and apt... before apt very few people used Debian). I think linux people tend to exaggerate the importance of Debian. Yes, it's important and popular, no doubt about it, but It's just another distro (awful in many things, cool in many other).

BTW, RIP Ian, he was a great guy very important not only to Linux also to OpenSolaris and open source world in general. We will miss him. ;)

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Shocked
by Lennie on Thu 31st Dec 2015 08:14 UTC in reply to "RE: Shocked"
Lennie Member since:
2007-09-22

What you forget is that Debian spends a lot of time making software work on more exotic hardware (they have official ports).

Debian is one of the main reason you can take an ARM device and install something like Ubuntu on that and have most of the software just work.

Reply Score: 9

RE[3]: Shocked
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Thu 31st Dec 2015 14:30 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Shocked"
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

Kind of curious, what was Debian's role in ARM? Just the generic Linux kernel port? Or did they work on device tree/uboot?

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Shocked
by Lennie on Thu 31st Dec 2015 17:44 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Shocked"
Lennie Member since:
2007-09-22

When you create software and try to compile and run it on other architectures you find bugs and issues you won't find if you don't.

Those things need to be fixed & reported upstream.

Debian has the largest collection of software of all Linux distributions and BSDs. When they take on the task of supporting a new architecture they will work on making sure all that software works.

Reply Score: 6

RE[3]: Shocked
by sergio on Thu 31st Dec 2015 19:09 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Shocked"
sergio Member since:
2005-07-06

What you forget is that Debian spends a lot of time making software work on more exotic hardware (they have official ports).

Debian is one of the main reason you can take an ARM device and install something like Ubuntu on that and have most of the software just work.


That's so true! Debian work in that aspect is amazing.

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: Shocked
by Lennie on Thu 31st Dec 2015 19:19 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Shocked"
Lennie Member since:
2007-09-22

Debian is more than 1000 volunteers (some are partly paid by their employer to do that work) which I think is really cool that such a thing even exists.

Edited 2015-12-31 19:20 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Shocked
by Vide on Thu 31st Dec 2015 08:56 UTC in reply to "RE: Shocked"
Vide Member since:
2006-02-17

I'm really, really, really against this kind of thinking. If X didn't exist, then Y would have success and we would be in the same overall situation.
You just cannot know! Probably without Debian, Linux wouldn't be where it's now on servers, smartphones etc, maybe it would be some BSD or maybe something completely new.
Debian was and is paramount to the Linux presence in the IT world, that's a fact. If Debian didn't ever exist, well, it's hard to say what the scenario would be today.

Anyway, RIP Ian ;)

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Shocked
by No it isnt on Thu 31st Dec 2015 11:52 UTC in reply to "RE: Shocked"
No it isnt Member since:
2005-11-14

If Debian didn't exist, then perhaps something else would have come to solve the same problems -- package management and ease of configuration. Slackware never did.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Shocked
by Anonymous Penguin on Thu 31st Dec 2015 17:46 UTC in reply to "RE: Shocked"
Anonymous Penguin Member since:
2005-07-06

I think linux people tend to exaggerate the importance of Debian. Yes, it's important and popular, no doubt about it, but It's just another distro (awful in many things, cool in many other).



There are 338 distributions, past and present, based on Debian at Distrowatch. Hardly "just another distro".
Not to mention the number of architectures supported and the number of packages available.

Reply Score: 8

RE[3]: Shocked
by sbergman27 on Thu 31st Dec 2015 18:40 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Shocked"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

Still here, eh? Greetings, my old friend.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Shocked
by dylansmrjones on Thu 31st Dec 2015 20:44 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Shocked"
dylansmrjones Member since:
2005-10-02

He is not the only one :-)

I am sad and schocked to see a guy that young (my age) die, no matter the circumstances. Considering his input into various projects it is a loss for us all. But of course most of all for his family. It is very difficult to wrap your head around it.

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: Shocked
by Anonymous Penguin on Thu 31st Dec 2015 22:20 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Shocked"
Anonymous Penguin Member since:
2005-07-06

Thank you ;)

A happy new year!

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Shocked
by bassbeast on Sat 2nd Jan 2016 22:40 UTC in reply to "RE: Shocked"
bassbeast Member since:
2007-11-11

Exactly thinking a single person (well other than Linus Torvalds who made the thing) would cause Linux to not exist or not be where it is now by not being involved? Yeah no, not in any way connected to reality.

The way Linux was set up, where anybody could use the thing to make anything they want AND how frankly shitty the other OSes were at the time (remember we're talking System 7.x and Win9X were the big OSes of the time) meant that somebody would have built it the only difference would have been which form it took. It could have been Slackware, it could have been Mandrake, hell it could have been something completely left field but somebody would have made it, simply because all of the pieces were there waiting to be assembled.

As for Murdock? I have to wonder if his run in with police left him with a brain injury considering how much its been reported that his online persona changed so quickly. I have a bunch of friends that are EX-cops, key word ex, because of how the skinhead/roid rager faction has taken over so many police depts and the one thing I heard over and over is how much the SH/RR faction just goes out looking for a fight, if he ran into one of those? Getting his head cracked is a distinct possibility.

So I hope a REAL investigation if conducted and we find out exactly what happened, because right now, at least from what I've read, there are a lot more questions than there are answers.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Shocked
by deathshadow on Mon 4th Jan 2016 05:35 UTC in reply to "Shocked"
deathshadow Member since:
2005-07-12

My reaction on the age thing mirrors yours. I'm growing increasingly tired of seeing people younger than my self passing, particularly talented driven individuals who's actions did make a difference.

Over the past six years, I've lost three online acquaintances and two close personal friends all HALF my age. Most of them were outright brilliant, at times making me feel like the Neanderthal confronted by an electric toothbrush.

The two that hit me the hardest were Aaron Swartz and Dan Schulz. This is OS News, I don't have to explain who Aaron was. Dan carved something of a name for himself on web development forums and was about as brilliant, insightful, and generous as they come. It's through notes made talking to them on forums and via chat that a LOT of the content on the website I launched last month came into being -- hence my dedicating the site to their memory in the launch announcement. Though I'm way too blue collar and foul mouthed to reach the levels of politeness they could manage with their mastery of sardonic wit and the backhanded compliment.

Care to guess which Linux distro that site is hosted on?

Argh, young people, stop dying before me! Here I am in my late 40's when doctors told me I wouldn't live past 30... and yet I'm the survivor? WHISKEY TANGO FOXTROT!

eh, what was it George said? "It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather we should thank God that such men lived."

There's an odd quote for an agnostic to think of...

Edited 2016-01-04 05:36 UTC

Reply Score: 2

Sad News
by abraxas on Thu 31st Dec 2015 00:49 UTC
abraxas
Member since:
2005-07-07

Debian was the very first Linux I ever tried. It was (and is) a really big deal. It's sad to lose someone of such magnitude in the community but it is even sadder for the ones he left behind. My thoughts are with his family.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Sad News
by Lennie on Thu 31st Dec 2015 08:33 UTC in reply to "Sad News"
Lennie Member since:
2007-09-22

Debian is my first Linux and still is my first choice, probably always will be.

Reply Score: 2

Bizarre
by thinkmac on Thu 31st Dec 2015 00:57 UTC
thinkmac
Member since:
2015-09-23

A quick google search reveals that Ian's tweets were pretty abnormal. It just seems like he was in jail and was mad about police abuse. Tweets are way too short to paint a detailed picture. They are just way too drastic.. seems to suggest that his death wasn't of natural causes.

Edited 2015-12-31 00:58 UTC

Reply Score: 8

RE: Bizarre
by bannor99 on Thu 31st Dec 2015 01:30 UTC in reply to "Bizarre "
bannor99 Member since:
2005-09-15

Bizarre barely covers it. Perhaps he was suffering some kind of mental break?
But how does that relate to his untimely passing?

This is a real loss to the FOSS community.

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Bizarre
by thinkmac on Thu 31st Dec 2015 02:19 UTC in reply to "RE: Bizarre "
thinkmac Member since:
2015-09-23

Of course, the man passed, and I am dumbfounded as to how a man in his prime passed away so soon. It is a sad loss to FOSS, as I do use Ubuntu daily. If it wasn't for Ian, Ubuntu probably would not come out the way it is now.

You are right that it is no one's business to question the cause. Leave the man's families in peace.

RIP Ian

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Bizarre
by davidiwharper on Thu 31st Dec 2015 03:45 UTC in reply to "RE: Bizarre "
davidiwharper Member since:
2006-01-01

As far as I can tell based on present information, Mr Murdock had such a traumatic interaction with police that he decided to take his own life. Ars Technica is reporting (http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/12/ian-murdock-f...) that he was arrested by the police, which gives new context to his stream of tweets.

The reason why the tweets seem bizarre is that it sounds like he can't fathom just how insane the police over in the U.S. have become (https://img.sauf.ca/pictures/2015-12-29/c12fc3b2278596da4a26edd4a41f...) - and tellingly, makes the point that he knows what happens to other people, but never thought it could happen to him because "I'm white, I made $1.4 million last year".

Unfortunately I can believe this because police brutality in the U.S. is now out of control. Just for a taste, http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/nov/17/san-francisco-police...

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: Bizarre
by Priest on Thu 31st Dec 2015 05:00 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Bizarre "
Priest Member since:
2006-05-12

I've run the numbers and police brutality isn't something that is only race specific and when critics of brutality make their criticism race specific it detracts from the issue and makes it a partisan.

Racial makeup of those targeted by police brutality and police shootings are largely in line with crime rates. There isn't evidence that police overly target any specific race of people with violence meaning it's not that police are racist a-holes, they are just a-holes.

Blacks are about 5-6 times as likely to commit violent crimes in the US and only about 3x as likely to be shot by police meaning as a representation of violent criminals whites are basically over represented in police shootings. I am not saying he was killed by police, only using shootings a metric to measure police violence.

The media just tends not to cover police violence in the same way when the victim is white because they enjoy taking a police state issue and making it a racial one where it doesn't necessarily need to be.

Then again pointing this out is horribly taboo even on most websites. I'm sure plenty of people will laugh at the idea that an affluent white male can be a victim of police violence too. I've been the victim of constant police harassment all of my life but somehow because I wasn't racially profiled it's irelevent.

Edited 2015-12-31 05:01 UTC

Reply Score: 8

RE[4]: Bizarre
by Lennie on Thu 31st Dec 2015 08:21 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Bizarre "
Lennie Member since:
2007-09-22

That is why he was trying to get the attention to this issue.

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: Bizarre
by kwan_e on Thu 31st Dec 2015 08:28 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Bizarre "
kwan_e Member since:
2007-02-18

There isn't evidence that police overly target any specific race of people with violence


You mean those emails from police departments that are explicitly racist isn't evidence enough for you?

And why does it have to be just violence? If you are suspected at every turn, you're not going to be of sound mind for much longer are you?

Blacks are about 5-6 times as likely to commit violent crimes in the US


And why do you think that is, when blacks automatically come under suspicion and cannot integrate in the society they grew up in?

And how much of those "violent crimes" are actually police fabrications of the kind we are now seeing being caught on video - killed when they're unarmed, running away, not given any time to respond, deliberately dropping their weapon next to the person they killed so it looks like they tried to take their weapon. It's clear as day that the police are very well trained into making up excuses for murder. Blacks can't sue for brutality if they're dead.

I've been the victim of constant police harassment all of my life but somehow because I wasn't racially profiled it's irelevent.


Assuming you're not making this up, so what? Even if the total numbers magically turned out to be even for whites and blacks who are victims of constant police harassment, it still doesn't override the fact that the police can target one person for one reason, and target another person for their race.

But then, the burden of proof is on you to show that the numbers in police harassment are close enough to be equal.

Reply Score: 4

RE[5]: Bizarre
by p13. on Thu 31st Dec 2015 08:59 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Bizarre "
p13. Member since:
2005-07-10

Stop making this about race.

Reply Score: 3

RE[6]: Bizarre
by kwan_e on Thu 31st Dec 2015 09:49 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Bizarre "
kwan_e Member since:
2007-02-18

Stop burying your head in the sand over the effect of race. Only retards disconnected from reality think we live in a post-racial world.

Reply Score: 3

RE[7]: Bizarre
by p13. on Thu 31st Dec 2015 10:00 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Bizarre "
p13. Member since:
2005-07-10

Someone died.
Show some respect.
Take your personal agenda elsewhere.

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Bizarre
by Thom_Holwerda on Thu 31st Dec 2015 10:04 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Bizarre "
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Stop making this about race.


Stop treating black folk like second-class citizens. That'd help.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/05/29/here-s-what-happen...

Reply Score: 5

RE[7]: Bizarre
by p13. on Thu 31st Dec 2015 10:09 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Bizarre "
p13. Member since:
2005-07-10

https://www.google.be/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=...

People are bad everywhere.
Racism isn't uniquely a white trait.
Blacks aren't the only victims of racism.

I've worked with many people in differing Asian countries.
Want to see racism towards anything and everything?
Try South Korea or non-touristic destinations in China.

Edited 2015-12-31 10:12 UTC

Reply Score: 4

RE[7]: Bizarre
by galvanash on Thu 31st Dec 2015 13:36 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Bizarre "
galvanash Member since:
2006-01-25

"Stop making this about race.


Stop treating black folk like second-class citizens. That'd help.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/05/29/here-s-what-happen...
"

This is the kind of shit that infuriates me. You post a link to a video, made by an anonymous SJW asshat on youtube, obviously completely designed to stir up shit, as if it proves a point. Its not "shining a light" on a problem, it is making one up. Its manufactured.

The two videos are completely unrelated, different people, different times, different locations, different cops, different circumstances, different everything. But the only difference you see is that one guy is white and the other is black.

I live in a fairly gun tolerant area in the south. Even here though, a white guy walking down the street with what looks like an assault rifle on his back is going to get put down real fast. Maybe after they have gone through it a few times, and the cops all start to know them by name, maybe then they start being nice to the fellow.

Probably a lot like that white guy in the video... How much do you want to bet the 1st 5 times he pulled that shit he got handled at gun point?

Why do you fall for stuff like this? Use your brain.

ps: Just to be clear, the proper police response in that situation is what happened to the black guy. I'm personally an advocate for gun rights, but walking around with an assault rifle in the public forum is stupid, and you should get handled at gun point every single time a cop sees you. Yes, you have a right to be an open carry asshole, but the cops should treat you like one - even after they know you on a first name basis for doing this crap. These idiots are exactly as bad as the SJWs, they just play for the opposite team.

Edited 2015-12-31 13:47 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[7]: Bizarre
by sergio on Thu 31st Dec 2015 19:36 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Bizarre "
sergio Member since:
2005-07-06

"Stop making this about race.


Stop treating black folk like second-class citizens. That'd help.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/05/29/here-s-what-happen...
"

2nd class? haha

Please, if you are in the US go to a black neighborhood and then tell me that "black people" are the victims. If you see a black guy with a gun... well, good luck haha C'mon... stop with all that liberal bullshit. Black people are not victims at all.

The only victims in the US are the white middle class people. They work their asses off and _NOBODY_ helps or cares about them. That's the true.

Reply Score: 2

RE[7]: Bizarre
by hussam on Fri 1st Jan 2016 15:05 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Bizarre "
hussam Member since:
2006-08-17


Stop treating black folk like second-class citizens. That'd help.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/05/29/here-s-what-happen...

True. I also feel that black people classifying themselves as "African American" instead of simply "Americans" indicates they never felt comfortable enough in the US to drop the "African" heritage label.

Edited 2016-01-01 15:08 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Bizarre
by Gone fishing on Thu 31st Dec 2015 22:06 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Bizarre "
Gone fishing Member since:
2006-02-22

Stop making this about race.


Hard if it is....

My take would be, let change the lens from race to class, the cops predominantly target the poor and because of US history Black Americans are over represented as poor and it is also probably true that the poor commit more crime - I wonder why?

Secondly US cops are an out of control paramilitary force, I guess the writers of the constitution, intended the right to bare arms to check the creation of such a state paramilitary.

I am very sorry to hear of this death, Debian is very cool and very important.

Reply Score: 4

RE[4]: Bizarre
by abraxas on Thu 31st Dec 2015 17:12 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Bizarre "
abraxas Member since:
2005-07-07

I've run the numbers and police brutality isn't something that is only race specific and when critics of brutality make their criticism race specific it detracts from the issue and makes it a partisan.

Racial makeup of those targeted by police brutality and police shootings are largely in line with crime rates. There isn't evidence that police overly target any specific race of people with violence meaning it's not that police are racist a-holes, they are just a-holes.

Blacks are about 5-6 times as likely to commit violent crimes in the US and only about 3x as likely to be shot by police meaning as a representation of violent criminals whites are basically over represented in police shootings. I am not saying he was killed by police, only using shootings a metric to measure police violence.

The media just tends not to cover police violence in the same way when the victim is white because they enjoy taking a police state issue and making it a racial one where it doesn't necessarily need to be.

Then again pointing this out is horribly taboo even on most websites. I'm sure plenty of people will laugh at the idea that an affluent white male can be a victim of police violence too. I've been the victim of constant police harassment all of my life but somehow because I wasn't racially profiled it's irelevent.


You ran the numbers? Nonsense. Considering statistics concerning people being killed by police are NOT kept. I've heard your line of reasoning before and it is bullshit. Yes, white males can be harrassed by the police, I have been as well, but the vast majority of cases involve minorities. We do have statistics to indicate that whites use drugs at the same rate as blacks but are much more likely to be arrested.

No one has ever claimed police harrassment is irrelevant but it isn't institutional for whites. That's the problem. You can't 100% solve the issue of an individual cop from being an asshole, but you have the duty to solve the issue if it is institutional.

Reply Score: 4

RE[4]: Bizarre
by davidiwharper on Fri 1st Jan 2016 14:51 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Bizarre "
davidiwharper Member since:
2006-01-01

The local authorities in San Francisco don't seem to agree with your assessment (of the SFPD at least). The district attorney has empanelled a three judge panel to investigate racial bias in policing:

First came disclosures of racist and homophobic text messages exchanged by officers of the San Francisco Police Department. That was followed by the discovery that sheriff’s deputies had been gambling on forced fighting matches between inmates at a city jail.

[...]

In recent months, there have also been a number of cellphone videos posted online of San Francisco police officers apparently mistreating citizens — many of them African-American — including one in which an officer nearly tipped a disabled man out of his wheelchair onto the street.


Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/08/us/san-francisco-police-departmen...

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Bizarre
by Lennie on Thu 31st Dec 2015 08:20 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Bizarre "
Lennie Member since:
2007-09-22

and tellingly, makes the point that he knows what happens to other people, but never thought it could happen to him because "I'm white, I made $1.4 million last year".


You are misinterpreting that.

What he meant was (it's 140 characters and he's... not well):

___

Some might think the police has a racism problem, but it's not just black people that get abused by the police. It's a police violence problem.

Maybe this will show people that the police violence is out of control in the US.

___

He used the N-word, because others use it in that context.

Maybe this is a good comment to explain it:
http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=8551885&cid=51210911

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: Bizarre
by davidiwharper on Thu 31st Dec 2015 12:34 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Bizarre "
davidiwharper Member since:
2006-01-01

Actually I think the linked quote just proves the point: "Maybe my suicide at this, you now, a successful business man, not a [expletive], will finally bring some attention to this very serious issue"

Reply Score: 3

RE[5]: Bizarre
by Lennie on Thu 31st Dec 2015 12:43 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Bizarre "
Lennie Member since:
2007-09-22

Agreed and I really hope it helps (I'm not in the US, but it has looked like for many years that the US needs to fix this).

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Updated details
by davidiwharper on Fri 1st Jan 2016 14:44 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Bizarre "
davidiwharper Member since:
2006-01-01

The San Francisco Police Department has come out with a statement:

Police were first called to the Green Street address in the Pacific Heights neighborhood at about 11:30 p.m. Saturday on a report someone was trying to break into a residence there, Gatpandan said.

They found Murdock nearby at Steiner and Union streets and detained him because he matched the description of the person trying to break in. He was belligerent with the officers and appeared to be drunk, she said.


Source: http://sfbay.ca/2015/12/31/police-confirm-ian-murdock-arrest-before...

Now before we all rush to blame Mr Murdock here (and remember he is deceased and can't defend himself), I note that there have been far too many incidents where U.S. police officers have been caught out bashing suspects and trying to cover it up - sometimes even charging their victims with assaulting police.

e.g.

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/may/14/local/la-me-ln-fbi-enters-v...
http://globalnews.ca/news/2261587/shocking-video-in-alleged-police-...
http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2015/12/08/a_new_investigation...

Edited 2016-01-01 14:45 UTC

Reply Score: 4

RE[4]: Updated details
by Alfman on Fri 1st Jan 2016 19:43 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Updated details"
Alfman Member since:
2011-01-28

davidiwharper,

I note that there have been far too many incidents where U.S. police officers have been caught out bashing suspects and trying to cover it up - sometimes even charging their victims with assaulting police.


This happened to two of my college friends, they were arrested on fabricated police assault charges. The police officers were never "caught" (ie they got away with it), but at least the judge was sympathetic and didn't given my friends prison time. I just think, had I been there instead, I might have been arrested if the police felt like it. At least today we have a lot more individuals carrying cameras, which can shed light on the matter.

Edited 2016-01-01 19:52 UTC

Reply Score: 4

Oh! God :(
by dionicio on Thu 31st Dec 2015 01:52 UTC
dionicio
Member since:
2006-07-12

This is bad...

Reply Score: 1

R.I.P.
by acobar on Thu 31st Dec 2015 13:43 UTC
acobar
Member since:
2005-11-15

The whole situation involved on his demise is quite strange and disturbing.

It is more than the right time, it already past it, to USA engage on a serious and, hopefully, productive time to talk about violence on general, not only police violence.

If we compare the numbers of deaths by guns on USA with of what happens on other developed countries, it clearly shows that there is something profoundly wrong.

Also, people tend to paint things without taking in account the whole picture. There are way more things on all these crimes by police officers than racism. I bet inequality is a better metric to account for it, even though racism is very present and there is a huge link between what is assigned as your race (hint, it bears no back if we look at genetics) and your chance to get upper in the income society pyramid.

But I don't want to divert on this, not here and not now.

I have a high respect to what Ian accomplished in his short time between us. Lets morn his premature passing and celebrate his legacy. What he did in life has had such a positive impact on our society, one that most of us can only dream we would have, that, perhaps, we should concentrate on his achievements by now.

I digress. Reading the whole thing again and what he tried to bring to the world, perhaps, discussing the actual situation we have all around the world is more appropriate to celebrate his accomplishments. The current insanity must be handled now if we want a real chance to bring it to pathological insignificancy statistical noise level it deserves

Reply Score: 4

RE: R.I.P.
by ricegf on Thu 31st Dec 2015 14:55 UTC in reply to "R.I.P."
ricegf Member since:
2007-04-25

If we compare the numbers of deaths by guns on USA with of what happens on other developed countries


I'm sorry, I must have missed something important. Was Mr. Murdock shot?

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: R.I.P.
by acobar on Thu 31st Dec 2015 15:08 UTC in reply to "RE: R.I.P."
acobar Member since:
2005-11-15

No, I was talking about violence in this case.

Ian passing is still under investigation and I don't want to jump on conclusions. He was a passionate guy, lots of really good guys are, what can contribute to escalate bad situations rapidly. I hope he did not take his life, it would be a devastating, tragic and unneeded last act.

Reply Score: 3

This is not about police
by poliorcetes on Thu 31st Dec 2015 14:51 UTC
poliorcetes
Member since:
2009-05-06

Even terrible cases of brutalization - aka "torture" - doesn't produce suicide. Suicide is only a consequence IF a person is tortured so repeteadly that only suicide can end it. E.g., people that run towards electric fences on KL

I don't want to negate an alledgedly case of police brutalization. Such problems exists, and a jury should determine if it was the case.

However, for me is pretty clear that the underlining problem was depression or an equivalent treat. And the objective problem is suicide.

Suicide receives a so powerful social censure that even in this case, people prefer to talk about sideline topics.

Suicide is THE problem. Not only in this case, but in all the Western World.

Reply Score: 1

RE: This is not about police
by acobar on Thu 31st Dec 2015 15:36 UTC in reply to "This is not about police"
acobar Member since:
2005-11-15

Suicide is THE problem. Not only in this case, but in all the Western World.

It is not a problem only on Western world regretfully, take a look on South Korea statistics.

Depression is a very huge problem that social pressure makes even worst. Our societies should start to look at better ways to account for "successful" lives and offload the pressure to be the best, prettiest, richest, most popular or whatever from the shoulders of people.

Reply Score: 3

RE: This is not about police
by tylerdurden on Sat 2nd Jan 2016 00:11 UTC in reply to "This is not about police"
tylerdurden Member since:
2009-03-17

I can also play armchair psychologist and note the possibility that you could be also projecting your own unwillingness to tackle a subject, in this case police brutality, by trying to deflect attention to the suicide solely.

There is no need to impose a monochromatic view of reality. People are smarter than some of you give them credit for, and we can deal with more than one issue concurrently. Our brains can multi task, some better than others obviously.

Yes, the issue of his suicide is important. It seems that Mr. Murdock had nowhere to turn to for help, during his apparent psychological undoing. But the trauma that led to that undoing is also important.

There are two important issues at play therefore; the shittiness of American mental healthcare system, and the scary devolution of the American police system. Trying to use one to muffle the other rubs me as being incredibly shortsighted.

Reply Score: 3

Sad News.
by fossil on Thu 31st Dec 2015 15:35 UTC
fossil
Member since:
2009-05-29

I learned of this last night while finishing the installation of Debian-Jessie on my laptop, and type this from a Jessie workstation.

Thanks, Ian. My prayers for your loved ones. RIP.

Reply Score: 2

Should be one of most talked about deaths
by cjcox on Thu 31st Dec 2015 17:17 UTC
cjcox
Member since:
2006-12-21

Wow. Talk about shock and awe. Although I post, I really have no words.... wow.

Reply Score: 2

mentally ill
by unclefester on Fri 1st Jan 2016 00:10 UTC
unclefester
Member since:
2007-01-13

It is fairly clear that Ian was suffering from psychosis and committed suicide. His tweets show that he was a deeply disturbed individual immediately prior to his death.

Reply Score: 2

THANK YOU.
by porcel on Fri 1st Jan 2016 12:45 UTC
porcel
Member since:
2006-01-28

Truly, truly sad day.

This man made the world better for millions of people.

Debian as a distribution does not get the credit it deserves for having been a solid bedrock and foundation for Free Software for many many years.

May your family always know the true hero that you are to many of us.

Reply Score: 3

archived copy twitter
by viton on Sat 2nd Jan 2016 05:37 UTC
viton
Member since:
2005-08-09

As Twitter deleted the account, here the archived version
http://archive.is/OPlI7

Edited 2016-01-02 05:38 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE: archived copy twitter
by avgalen on Mon 4th Jan 2016 09:03 UTC in reply to "archived copy twitter"
avgalen Member since:
2010-09-23

From that Twitter feed:
Ian Murdock ‏@imurdock · Nov 3
The best article I've read about Debian history: https://www.linux.com/news/special-feature/stories-of-linux/465353-s...

Reply Score: 2