Linked by subterrific on Tue 10th Jan 2017 23:21 UTC
OSNews, Generic OSes

Jehanne is a new distributed operating system designed for programmers. The core values that lead the development are simplicity and security. Jehanne is a fork of Harvey (which in turn is a fork of Plan 9 from Bell Labs merged with Nix's kernel sources) but diverges from the design and conventions of its ancestors whenever they are at odds with its goals. Read about development progress made in 2016.

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Interesting
by Pro-Competition on Wed 11th Jan 2017 00:56 UTC
Pro-Competition
Member since:
2007-08-20

I don't follow Plan 9 et al. closely enough to form an opinion on the specifics (or even comment intelligently), but this does look interesting from the description.

Reply Score: 3

Comment by cb88
by cb88 on Wed 11th Jan 2017 04:37 UTC
cb88
Member since:
2009-04-23

Yet another plan9 fork without a reasonable GUI.

If you must integrate a GUI into your operating system... make it a good one that abides by KISS, enables keyboard and mouse usage but does not mix them so much that it is cumbersome (plan9 is guilty here), don't be different just for the sake of it... and if there are differences make them easy to discover and remember.

Plan9 has some excellent design behind it... which is left in the dust by it's obtuseness...

Edited 2017-01-11 04:38 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE: Comment by cb88
by Volt on Wed 11th Jan 2017 05:53 UTC in reply to "Comment by cb88"
Volt Member since:
2006-06-23

It's not really about whether there's a decent GUI, but about whether there are any good applications. Like a modern Web browser. I wish someone was motivated enough to do it.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Comment by cb88
by tidux on Wed 11th Jan 2017 06:17 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by cb88"
tidux Member since:
2011-08-13

Even the original Unix team of Bell Labs wizards gave up on Plan 9 because their weird, shitty C dialect made it impossible to port any sort of reasonable web browser or rendering engine.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Comment by cb88
by jgfenix on Fri 13th Jan 2017 09:55 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by cb88"
jgfenix Member since:
2006-05-25

Are you talking about Plan9 or Inferno and Limbo?

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Comment by cb88
by tidux on Fri 13th Jan 2017 16:19 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by cb88"
tidux Member since:
2011-08-13

Plan 9, but the Inferno and Limbo teams seem no closer.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by cb88
by cb88 on Wed 11th Jan 2017 06:49 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by cb88"
cb88 Member since:
2009-04-23

Sure, there are no applications... but there is a GUI and while it is well programmed (I've read a bit about it and it's predecessor both pretty cool code wise) ... it is a terrible design user friendliness wise.... so I'll bash it if I like haha!

It is unfortunate that more software doesn't exist for it... the software that is there at least is well written.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Comment by cb88
by cb88 on Wed 11th Jan 2017 06:51 UTC in reply to "Comment by cb88"
cb88 Member since:
2009-04-23

I'm replying to myself here... because I forgot to provide an example of an os that has a different yet discoverable GUI. BeOS/Haiku.... its quite different but not too different, and the differences that are there have been used to good advantage mostly, I'll admit tracker is more or less archaic and clunky.... but nowhere near as obtuse as plan9.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by cb88
by Alfman on Wed 11th Jan 2017 19:41 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by cb88"
Alfman Member since:
2011-01-28

cb88,

BeOS/Haiku.... its quite different but not too different, and the differences that are there have been used to good advantage mostly, I'll admit tracker is more or less archaic and clunky.... but nowhere near as obtuse as plan9.


When I tried plan9, I also felt the GUI was a toy, interesting but not that usable. I feel most of plan9's contributions were lower in the operating system where they took the best of unix but fixed up original design mistakes and inconsistencies. It's more true to the "everything is a file" concept than unix is.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment by cb88
by cb88 on Thu 12th Jan 2017 03:49 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by cb88"
cb88 Member since:
2009-04-23

Toy in the sense that it isn't much use... on the other hand it does have powerful features. Everything is a file is taken much futher on plan9 as well... even with respect to the GUI.

I wouldn't call it a toy (since it isn't so much simplistic or even fun, and it acutally is fairly powerful)... its just extremely unfamiliar to the point of being unusable... kind of like handing someone a Dvorak or Colemak keyboard and expecting them to type much of anything...

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Comment by cb88
by darknexus on Thu 12th Jan 2017 15:04 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by cb88"
darknexus Member since:
2008-07-15

kind of like handing someone a Dvorak or Colemak keyboard and expecting them to type much of anything...

Well, I've got Dvorak covered despite not having used it in a while. Colemak though... yeah, you got me. ;)

Reply Score: 2

WIP?
by Giorgos on Thu 12th Jan 2017 14:02 UTC
Giorgos
Member since:
2015-12-06

It's website says that it's in WIP stage and most of pages are empty.
I'd rather call it pre-alpha (not WIP).
I think, it needs some time.

Reply Score: 1

v Comment by jucez
by jucez on Thu 12th Jan 2017 16:09 UTC
Comment by jido
by jido on Thu 12th Jan 2017 17:45 UTC
jido
Member since:
2006-03-06

The author ported gcc to it, so it should be possible to run some software in theory

Reply Score: 1

RE: Comment by jido
by elbing on Fri 13th Jan 2017 10:34 UTC in reply to "Comment by jido"
elbing Member since:
2016-05-27

I ported GCC to Plan9 years ago and I'm working on it and clang for Harvey.

Reply Score: 1

Forks
by lproven on Thu 12th Jan 2017 19:08 UTC
lproven
Member since:
2006-08-23

I'm happy to see Plan 9 being mentioned on OSNews!

In recent days, I discovered that there are a number of new forks of Plan 9, including Jehanne. I updated the relevant section of the Wikipedia page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_9_from_Bell_Labs#Derivatives_and_...

Whereas I'm glad there's interest, it looks worryingly like the BSD situation to me: instead of people cooperating on one branch, there is fragmentation and all these separate subprojects.

As Caesar said: divide and conquer.

That I know of, there are now:
Plan 9 from Bell Labs -- the original
9atom -- x86-32, with PAE support (last update: 2013)
NIX -- a fork from around 2011/2012, aimed at multicore and cloud
9front -- a set of patches and updates (current)
9legacy -- a distro, also current
Akaros -- forked OS, multicore/SMP (current)
Harvey OS -- forked OS, primarily x86-64 (current)
Jehanne OS -- forked OS, 9front + Plan9-9K + Harvey (current)

Are they all really rivals? Is there any prospect of usefully bringing them together?

And what of Inferno, son of Plan 9? It has useful stuff to contribute too -- the Limbo language, the Dis VM, its slightly more comprehensible GUI...

Reply Score: 1

RE: Forks
by elbing on Fri 13th Jan 2017 10:47 UTC in reply to "Forks"
elbing Member since:
2016-05-27

Plan 9 from Bell Labs is not under development nor maintained anymore.
NIX is not under development anymore.
Akaros has a closed relationship with Harvey OS project but is not a derivative from Plan 9.

You forgot NxM, abandoned.

I don't think that different ways would be bad. Bad would be forgetting and loosing ideas and concepts from Plan 9 just because most of people doesn't like rio.

Reply Score: 1

Enough!1
by abraxas on Sun 15th Jan 2017 16:01 UTC
abraxas
Member since:
2005-07-07

Every time Plan 9 is mentioned people bitch about the GUI or the lack of a modern web browser. Plan 9 was never intended for you to use on your home computer. It is a distributed environment. It is very good at large computation tasks spread out over multiple machines. It is a really meant for clusters, not your laptop. I think of this when I think of Plan 9:

http://glenda.cat-v.org/gallery/glenda_blue_gene.png

Edited 2017-01-15 16:02 UTC

Reply Score: 2