Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 17th Mar 2017 22:45 UTC
Windows

Now Microsoft is planning to preload another app in Windows 10: Sling TV. While only US Windows 10 users will get Sling TV preloaded without the necessary subscription, it will sit alongside Candy Crush and Solitaire as other examples of what will soon be described as bloatware. Thankfully, it’s easy to uninstall these unnecessary apps, but that doesn’t mean Microsoft won’t add more to the mix in the future. Microsoft used to blame its OEM partners for bundling lots of useless apps on Windows PCs, but now it has itself to blame for doing the same to Windows 10.

More and more ads are coming to products you actually already pay for.

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So....
by leech on Sat 18th Mar 2017 00:21 UTC
leech
Member since:
2006-01-10

Windows has finally gotten so that the adware crap isn't infecting it as much, so now Microsoft inserts their own? Wonderful.

Reply Score: 5

RE: So....
by Brendan on Sat 18th Mar 2017 01:19 UTC in reply to "So...."
Brendan Member since:
2005-11-16

Hi,

Windows has finally gotten so that the adware crap isn't infecting it as much, so now Microsoft inserts their own? Wonderful.


It's standard practice to use a monopoly in one area (desktop OS) to make it extremely hard for competitors to compete in another area (malware), so that your own product/s (spamware, spyware, etc) have an unfair advantage. :-)

-Brendan

Reply Score: 4

Windows 7
by The123king on Sat 18th Mar 2017 00:50 UTC
The123king
Member since:
2009-05-28

Windows 7 was the last true "Windows". Everything after is some sort of horrible "let's be trendy" attempt from Microsoft, trying to "get down with the kids". Windows 8 was a flop because it was terrible to use, threw out all the old metaphors and shoved some plasticky mess of square icons at you. Windows 10 is a mess (not necessarily a flop) just because they saw all the crapware and tracking that companies like Samsung and Apple have been getting away with for years and wanted in on the action.

I'll never like windows 10. I'll still use it when i need to (and tbh i start a new job on monday with around ~500 deployed Win10 machines...) but at home, i'll stick to 7 until i have no choice

Reply Score: 7

RE: Windows 7
by Morgan on Tue 21st Mar 2017 01:43 UTC in reply to "Windows 7"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

I agree with the sentiment of your post, but I disagree that Apple has been tracking its users for profit. Despite my admiration for OS X itself, I'm not an Apple fanboy (I sold my only remaining Apple device last year and haven't looked back) but it's been my understanding that they are one of the few tech companies that isn't mining their users for advertising gold.

I also chose to drop Google for the reasons you stated, the icing on the cake being their horrid, practically illegal treatment of Pixel phone buyers. I've settled on the Blackberry Passport for a mobile phone, as it is fast, secure, has a real keyboard, and can run Android apps via the Amazon app store and F-Droid.

I'm working on switching to Linux and BSD full time after seeing the OneDrive spam in Windows 10 as well as Cortana constantly turning herself back on (and spamming me with ads) after I turn her off. Most of the reasons I run Windows 10, Steam games, also run on Linux either natively or through PlayOnLinux. I already do anything resembling work on Linux as it stands, so it's no great leap. I have an old-as-dirt laptop that runs both OpenBSD and Haiku OS exceptionally well so I'm covered for on-the-go computing too.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Windows 7
by Alfman on Tue 21st Mar 2017 02:35 UTC in reply to "RE: Windows 7"
Alfman Member since:
2011-01-28

Morgan,

I agree with the sentiment of your post, but I disagree that Apple has been tracking its users for profit.



I think it's safest to assume that anything that can be tracked is being tracked unless it's specifically spelled out in the terms & conditions that it won't be. Is anyone aware of any significant & specific differences between apple & google's terms as it relates to privacy?


Apple has IDFA, which is app/web tracking designed FOR advertisers to track IOS users. Apparently apple's been cracking down on other uses by non-advertisers, which I find completely ironic given that advertisers are the primary group I oppose tracking me.

https://techcrunch.com/2014/02/07/openidfa-a-solution-to-idfa-relate...

Apple claims to track user location data to serve ads as well, however at least both these can be explicitly disabled if you know where to look.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202074

Edit: I just read this now, it looks like prior to IOS10 the disable IDFA option merely informed advertisers about the user's desire not to be tracked, but it continued to return tracking data anyways.

http://venturebeat.com/2016/08/30/idfa-zeroing-is-almost-upon-us-wh...
Apple’s Limit Ad Tracking change will actually only affect a small number of people. Globally, only about 11.5 percent of iOS users turn Limit Ad Tracking on...


Edited 2017-03-21 02:45 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Windows 7
by Morgan on Tue 21st Mar 2017 04:03 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Windows 7"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

I was speaking mainly of desktop operating systems, but given how closely tied iOS and macOS are nowadays, what you posted is likely just as relevant to Apple desktop users.

Sadly, tracking and targeted advertising seem to be the new normal, hell even the ads on this site track the user.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Windows 7
by darknexus on Tue 21st Mar 2017 15:55 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Windows 7"
darknexus Member since:
2008-07-15

Sadly, tracking and targeted advertising seem to be the new normal, hell even the ads on this site track the user.

Which is why I will never browse any web page without an ad blocker. No exceptions. Not only do I not want random corporations tracking me, but I'm not willing to open myself to random third-party code from an industry which has proven that they don't care about security whatsoever.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Windows 7
by Alfman on Tue 21st Mar 2017 20:31 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Windows 7"
Alfman Member since:
2011-01-28

darknexus,

Which is why I will never browse any web page without an ad blocker. No exceptions. Not only do I not want random corporations tracking me, but I'm not willing to open myself to random third-party code from an industry which has proven that they don't care about security whatsoever.


Even as webmasters we're often instructed to run 3rd party code on websites knowing fully well that the third party code implicitly extends the attack window outside of our control.

There's really no reason google should have access to all the websites they have access to via hidden code injection. While google might not intentionally exploit their privileged access as an advertiser on millions of websites, it is nevertheless a serious flaw in the security model for the web with great potential for harm.

Edited 2017-03-21 20:33 UTC

Reply Score: 2

Comment by Phloptical
by Phloptical on Sat 18th Mar 2017 14:24 UTC
Phloptical
Member since:
2006-10-10

Pay for....but yet, do not own.

Reply Score: 6

Uninstall
by darknexus on Sat 18th Mar 2017 21:00 UTC
darknexus
Member since:
2008-07-15

How easy is it, really, to uninstall these crap apps if the next forced update will just put them back again? That's what happens already.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Uninstall
by ahferroin7 on Mon 20th Mar 2017 12:56 UTC in reply to "Uninstall"
ahferroin7 Member since:
2015-10-30

A lot easier than One Drive (can only be uninstalled from an administrative PowerShell session and the uninstall can't be scripted), OneNote and the XBox and Weather apps (similar, except their uninstalls can be scripted).

There are also a handful of things in the registry you can twiddle to get most of the third party stuff to not re-install during a build upgrade, although that doesn't work on home edition.

Reply Score: 2

Sling
by BranSul on Sun 19th Mar 2017 01:23 UTC
BranSul
Member since:
2016-03-23

Sling is not actually a bad deal at all, it suits millennial cord cutters pretty well. That said, I know this is still crapware by definition. And unless you're willing to sacrifice practical use of your computer while watching TV by using an HDMI cord to connect, using Sling on a Roku or something like that... is a lot more practical.

Reply Score: 1

Comment by defdog99
by defdog99 on Sun 19th Mar 2017 02:34 UTC
defdog99
Member since:
2006-09-06

Thanks MS for putting the Candy Crack game on my box! It's addicting!

Can the Sling TV app play video files like Media Center used too ?

Reply Score: 1

Comment by ilovebeer
by ilovebeer on Sun 19th Mar 2017 14:42 UTC
ilovebeer
Member since:
2011-08-08

Microsoft, why don't you just cut to the chase and dedicate a part of the screen to 24/7 advertising. It's either that or force advertising before you can use Windows at all. Watch advertising to allow keyboard input. Watch advertising to bring the pc out of sleep mode. Watch advertising to connect a usb device. Watch advertising to load an app. Watch advertising to close an app. Watch advertising to do anything... That's what you're really after right? You don't want to be an OS maker anymore, you want to become the king of electronic spam and junk mail. Force everyone on to Windows 10, your advertising platform, and then cram ads down their throats 24/7.

I actually hope your behavior drives as many users as possible to non-Windows OS'es, and you pay dearly for violating & abusing your customers.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Comment by ilovebeer
by Alfman on Sun 19th Mar 2017 20:24 UTC in reply to "Comment by ilovebeer"
Alfman Member since:
2011-01-28

ilovebeer,

I actually hope your behavior drives as many users as possible to non-Windows OS'es, and you pay dearly for violating & abusing your customers.


Please take this in the humorous context in which it is intended, but man do you remember how we used to argue about microsoft?

http://www.osnews.com/thread?490027
ilovebeer: It's absurd the way some people are reacting to the _current_ and _non-final_ details of Windows 8. And that some people are crying that this or that is somehow being forcefully shoved down their throats....as if someone is standing over them with a gun making them install it. How can you post such ridiculousness without embarrassment? Don't like Windows 8? Don't use it, you aren't forced to. Don't like Windows <fill in whichever flavor you wish>? Don't use it, you aren't forced to. Want to whine and moan about what I've said? Don't bother, I'm not interested in hearing it. You may resume your childishness now.

Alfman: Unfortunately, microsoft does shove things down consumer's throats which we don't want. They use a number of monopoly tactics to eliminate reasonable choice. Most people are still content with XP, yet if their computers die, they are frequently forced to purchase a new OS which they neither needed nor wanted.

ilovebeer: I'm a consumer and Microsoft has never threatened me, shoved anything down my throat, or done anything beyond provide an OS option, among other software, should I choose to use it. I no longer use Windows XP, by my own choice, but if I did and my box died, I would simply reinstall it. ... Microsoft makes some great software. It escapes me why that is so hard for some people to acknowledge. Further, I can't help but wonder why those few who think Microsoft is so "evil", and Windows such a pile of crap, invest so much time & energy into talking about it. I guess some people just need something to complain about or they're not happy.

Alfman: You are contradicting what others are saying. For instance BluenoseJake claims that the reason metro exhibits problems today is because it's a preview and it is not market ready. For the sake of everyone involved, I hope he is right and you are wrong. ... You know damn well microsoft uses it's monopoly position to push products the market often doesn't want, don't play ignorant here.

ilovebeer: Maybe I didn't make the point clear enough. Windows previews are well along the way to being market-ready -- meaning nearly (if not all) major design decisions have been made and committed to. Microsoft does in fact ask people what they (dis)like long before this point. ... While some of Microsoft's business practices may be "questionable" in some peoples eyes, the fact stands that they can not force you to spend your money. They can not force you to run Windows. They can not force you to upgrade Windows if you do run it. They can not force you to do ANYTHING. That's just plain & simple, unarguable facts of reality.

Alfman: I am not asserting that windows is no good for anyone/anything; I prefer it sometimes even. However why do you deny that a great deal of microsoft's market share came from business tactics rather then the merit of their product?

ilovebeer: Because it's simply not true. Windows is a great product and it has transformed the world for the better. The merit of their flagship product is exactly what helped them to the top, not a 30 year run of strong-arming and bullying as you imply. For your you to deny that fact is beyond absurd. What's next on the list, arguing that the Earth is flat? Come on.


And so on... ;)


I find it funny that I tend to agree with your posts now. I'm really kind of curious, why the change of heart? I see the same thing happening with many apple fans too, even those who I honestly expected to be lifelong fans. They seem to be more willing to criticize a company they would have previously defended against any criticism. Is this a bi-product of growing older and becoming more cynical, or is there something else to it?

I personally think the corporations themselves are the same greed driven entities they've always been. I may not like what they're doing, but I assume they've done the math on paper and it might very well be true that converting customers into products to sell to advertisers is the most profitable way forward, which is why they do what they do.

I was speaking to one of my clients this week and she was complaining about her new windows 10 computer. I laughed it off "that's microsoft for you", but the reality is she gave microsoft her money despite her objections to the changes. So while I find myself in agreement with your first quote above, I think most people are just going to let microsoft use them and microsoft knows it.

Edited 2017-03-19 20:25 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Comment by ilovebeer
by ilovebeer on Sun 19th Mar 2017 21:24 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by ilovebeer"
ilovebeer Member since:
2011-08-08

I find it funny that I tend to agree with your posts now. I'm really kind of curious, why the change of heart? I see the same thing happening with many apple fans too, even those who I honestly expected to be lifelong fans. They seem to be more willing to criticize a company they would have previously defended against any criticism. Is this a bi-product of growing older and becoming more cynical, or is there something else to it?


In my case, it's a combination of Microsoft going too far and me running out of tolerance. In the past I was more willing to take the bad with the good. I still believe Microsoft and Windows has made life better in many ways - I don't think people realize how much they interact with Microsoft/Windows on a daily basis. But that aside, I also believe Microsoft today is worse than it has been in the past as far as end users are concerned. The increased hostility & aggression they display now is too disgusting to defend.

As far as Apple, I've never liked how they demand full control over absolutely everything. They don't believe you actually own anything of theirs you buy. You buy their products but have no right to do anything with them that isn't pre-approved usage. They can freely crippled or disable hardware you "own". About the only thing you can do is choose what case to put your iphone in. Of course some people do what they want anyways but Apple actually wants it to be a crime to do things like jailbreak. Illegal to unlock hardware you own. It's one thing to not want customers doing that but it's something else to actively try making it a criminal act.

I personally think the corporations themselves are the same greed driven entities they've always been. I may not like what they're doing, but I assume they've done the math on paper and it might very well be true that converting customers into products to sell to advertisers is the most profitable way forward, which is why they do what they do.

Absolutely! Greed is inescapable. People, and the companies they run, always want more. More profit, more property, more market share, more stock value, more more more.. No amount is ever enough and so we have a never ending quest to squeeze customers further & further, manipulate prices/supply, etc etc etc.

I was speaking to one of my clients this week and she was complaining about her new windows 10 computer. I laughed it off "that's microsoft for you", but the reality is she gave microsoft her money despite her objections to the changes. So while I find myself in agreement with your first quote above, I think most people are just going to let microsoft use them and microsoft knows it.

As long as all people do is complain but never actually take different action, Microsoft has nothing to worry about. Like you said, despite your clients objections she willingly paid Microsoft for their offering. She knew in advance she was getting a lop-sided deal and still took it. Maybe at some point, when the stars are in the right alignment, `our` behavior may change and `we` might take a real stand against these companies. But today isn't the day, and neither is tomorrow nor the day after.

Reply Score: 2