Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 11th May 2017 21:56 UTC
Windows

One of the biggest surprises at Microsoft's Build developer conference last year was that the company was building support for the Bash shell on top of an Ubuntu-based Linux subsystem right into Windows 10. This feature launched widely with the release of the Windows 10 Anniversary update and over the course of the last few months, it built upon this project with frequent updates, but it remained Ubuntu-based. As the company announced today, though, it's now also adding support for OpenSuSE and Fedora, too.

Microsoft really wants Windows to be the platform of choice for developers. They also showed off the Xamarin Live Player, allowing you to deply iOS applications on iOS devices using Visual Studio.

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Deploying to IOS without a mac
by Alfman on Thu 11th May 2017 22:24 UTC
Alfman
Member since:
2011-01-28

They also showed off the Xamarin Live Player, allowing you to deply iOS applications on iOS devices using Visual Studio.



I read the first paragraph with great surprise, wondering whether they got apple's permission:

Developing iOS and Android apps on a Windows PC just got a little bit simpler with the reveal of Xamarin Live Player. Announced on stage at Build 2017, Xamarin Live Player will simplify the app development process for iOS apps in particular by deploying them to iDevices from a PC with Visual Studio for debugging. That's notable because, previously, while an iOS app could be developed on a PC, a Mac was required to deploy it.


Until I read the second paragraph:

While this should streamline the development process, it's worth noting that a Mac is still required to submit an app to the App Store.


Edited 2017-05-11 22:28 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE: Deploying to IOS without a mac
by medior on Sun 14th May 2017 11:16 UTC in reply to "Deploying to IOS without a mac"
medior Member since:
2016-02-20

Give it time. It's a ridiculous policy from Apple.

Reply Score: 1

Question
by WorknMan on Fri 12th May 2017 04:04 UTC
WorknMan
Member since:
2005-11-13

What specifically does it mean that it supports different distros?

Reply Score: 2

RE: Question
by Drumhellar on Fri 12th May 2017 05:44 UTC in reply to "Question"
Drumhellar Member since:
2005-07-12

That, instead of installing Ubuntu 16.04 LTS, it installs Fedora or OpenSUSE?

So, instead of using apt to update your packages, you'd use yum/dnf or zypper

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Question
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Fri 12th May 2017 13:52 UTC in reply to "RE: Question"
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

[delorted]

Edited 2017-05-12 13:52 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE: Question
by PhilPotter on Fri 12th May 2017 08:05 UTC in reply to "Question"
PhilPotter Member since:
2011-06-10

I'd imagine it means they have tweaked it so that it runs fine with the slightly different Glibc, binutils, GCC and etc. versions found in SuSE and Fedora. Improved the syscall layer, accounted for more edge cases etc. It would just mean you are able to use one of these userlands instead of the Ubuntu one if you so choose.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Question
by ahferroin7 on Fri 12th May 2017 12:14 UTC in reply to "RE: Question"
ahferroin7 Member since:
2015-10-30

No, it means they've officially sanctioned it and uploaded custom versions of Fedora and openSUSE. Both of them, as well as Gentoo, Arch, classic Debian, and even Slackware and Buildroot-based stuff have run fine on this (within Microsoft's definition of fine for Ubuntu) since the start. The only difference now is that you don't have to bend over backwards to get Fedora or openSUSE running in it.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Question
by WorknMan on Fri 12th May 2017 22:01 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Question"
WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

No, it means they've officially sanctioned it and uploaded custom versions of Fedora and openSUSE.


What do you mean by 'custom' versions? Like 'MS Fedora'? And if so, what are the chances they're actually going to keep these things updated?

Edited 2017-05-12 22:02 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Question
by Drumhellar on Fri 12th May 2017 22:46 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Question"
Drumhellar Member since:
2005-07-12

Not custom versions, actually.

Updates are pulled directly from Ubuntu's repos - the exact same .deb files a regular Ubuntu user does.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Question
by ahferroin7 on Mon 15th May 2017 11:14 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Question"
ahferroin7 Member since:
2015-10-30

Custom versions in that they don't have certain things that aren't needed when running in a container (which is what WSL is) but are installed anyway in the default installation.

I'm dubious about them keeping things up to date, but in theory you might be able to get Fedora Rawhide or openSUSE Tumbleweed running under WSL, and then you just find a way to disable the store updates for it and keep it completely up-to-date yourself.

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Question
by ssokolow on Tue 16th May 2017 00:53 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Question"
ssokolow Member since:
2010-01-21

Custom spins, to use the Fedora terminology.

Same principle as things like installing Ubuntu Server or Kubuntu or Xubuntu or Lubuntu or Edubuntu instead of the main Ubuntu distro.

Reply Score: 2

For those that are really interested
by avgalen on Fri 12th May 2017 12:09 UTC
avgalen
Member since:
2010-09-23

There was an interview with Rich Turner (mr. Bash from Microsoft) that goes into everything you might want to know in an easy to understand way about 3 weeks ago: https://twit.tv/shows/windows-weekly/episodes/514?autostart=false. His part is from hour 1 to hour 2.

They also discussed that they partnered with Canonical to get things done quickly and that bugfixing and feature requests "accidentally" started to make other distro's be supported as well.

TLDR: basically they did what Wine (minus GUI-support) does in about a year because it is what developers requested.

Direct link to the start of that interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiekJGfzsHM&t=3620

Reply Score: 2

Congratulations
by dionicio on Fri 12th May 2017 13:46 UTC
dionicio
Member since:
2006-07-12

To The Linux Subsystem People at Microsoft.

Reply Score: 2

Still a problem
by darknexus on Fri 12th May 2017 17:21 UTC
darknexus
Member since:
2008-07-15

They want Windows 10 to be the developers' platform of choice... but until I can initiate a compile of a large application, walk away, and be damned sure I'll come back to the results of that compilation (and not the login screen from an update/restart cycle) they can forget it. I really am getting sick of that. Sure I have the luxury of putting an end to it with Windows 10 Enterprise at work. Outside of work though, I'm not so lucky using my own machines. I guess Microsoft says we shouldn't be developing large projects anymore.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Still a problem
by Drumhellar on Fri 12th May 2017 22:51 UTC in reply to "Still a problem"
Drumhellar Member since:
2005-07-12

What applications are taking you a month to build? Because, there's a setting, easy enough to find, that defers updates for up to 30 days.

Reboots after updates can be deferred for, what, a week? Two weeks?

Regardless, it's really easy to not have your work interrupted.

Edited 2017-05-12 23:04 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Still a problem
by ssokolow on Sat 13th May 2017 15:57 UTC in reply to "RE: Still a problem"
ssokolow Member since:
2010-01-21

I think the problem is "Update will be applied in ... seconds unless you defer it" popping up while AFK.

I don't see how deferring updates for a month would help. What's necessary is a way to snap updates to specific time windows.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Still a problem
by avgalen on Tue 16th May 2017 08:13 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Still a problem"
avgalen Member since:
2010-09-23

I think the problem is "Update will be applied in ... seconds unless you defer it" popping up while AFK.

I don't see how deferring updates for a month would help.


If you defer an update for 35 days you surely will not get a "Update will be applied in ... seconds unless you defer it"

What's necessary is a way to snap updates to specific time windows.

...which is exactly what Active hours is for: "Set active hours to let us know when you typically use this device. We won’t automatically restart it during active hours, and we won’t restart without checking if you’re using it."

I guess Windows already provided everything that you asked for and already was "the ultimate development platform" ;)

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Still a problem
by ssokolow on Tue 16th May 2017 20:33 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Still a problem"
ssokolow Member since:
2010-01-21

If you defer an update for 35 days you surely will not get a "Update will be applied in ... seconds unless you defer it"


...and then, 35 days later, when you've completely forgotten about it, it'll pop up while you're AFK and ruin whatever batch task you left it performing.

...which is exactly what Active hours is for: "Set active hours to let us know when you typically use this device. We won’t automatically restart it during active hours, and we won’t restart without checking if you’re using it."


That's more like it... though, personally, I'd prefer something like "active days".

I guess Windows already provided everything that you asked for and already was "the ultimate development platform" ;)


I'm not the guy you were originally talking to and I haven't used Windows for anything more significant than my quarantined retro-gaming subnet since I got fed up with Windows XP in 2004.

The only reason I consider myself knowledgeable enough to chime in is because I have gamer brothers who still run Windows. (Though they're planning to switch to Linux once Windows 7 is no longer a viable option, with one of them already spending more time on the Linux side of his dual-boot.)

Edited 2017-05-16 20:34 UTC

Reply Score: 2