Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 23rd May 2017 22:27 UTC
Hardware, Embedded Systems

A dis-integrated circuit project to make a complete, working transistor-scale replica of the classic MOS 6502 microprocessor.

This is sorcery - and art.

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I want a 68000...
by leech on Tue 23rd May 2017 22:47 UTC
leech
Member since:
2006-01-10

So I can mount it on my living room wall, that would be epic.

I agree, complete art!

Reply Score: 6

RE: I want a 68000...
by flanque on Wed 24th May 2017 03:02 UTC in reply to "I want a 68000..."
flanque Member since:
2005-12-15

This would look great in glass top coffee table.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: I want a 68000...
by bassbeast on Sat 27th May 2017 13:25 UTC in reply to "RE: I want a 68000..."
bassbeast Member since:
2007-11-11

Or in a glass case on the wall running a digital clock, preferably in binary...most epic!

Reply Score: 2

What on Earth!
by Earl C Pottinger on Wed 24th May 2017 00:02 UTC
Earl C Pottinger
Member since:
2008-07-12

I am speechless! That is some project.

Reply Score: 3

RE: What on Earth!
by Pro-Competition on Wed 24th May 2017 00:55 UTC in reply to "What on Earth!"
Pro-Competition Member since:
2007-08-20

Yes, it really is something! The LEDs are a nice touch also, so you watch it work.

Reply Score: 2

cool project
by codifies on Wed 24th May 2017 07:36 UTC
codifies
Member since:
2014-02-14

been following this for a while, very impressive...

just for the pedants shouldn't it be de-integrated ?

Reply Score: 1

Excellent!
by Drunkula on Wed 24th May 2017 12:24 UTC
Drunkula
Member since:
2009-09-03

That is awesome

Reply Score: 3

RE: Excellent!
by ilovebeer on Wed 24th May 2017 14:34 UTC in reply to "Excellent!"
ilovebeer Member since:
2011-08-08

Having started out on the C64 & Apple ][, I unequivocally agree!

Reply Score: 2

Sweet museum exhibit ...
by MacTO on Wed 24th May 2017 13:26 UTC
MacTO
Member since:
2006-09-21

While the specifically addressed the case of the Apple II, I wonder if it would be possible to modify a vintage computer to operate off of the MOnSter 6502 instead of a MOS6502? It would be an amazing museum exhibit if they can demonstrate a working CPU in a computer that was actually on the market.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Sweet museum exhibit ...
by jockm on Wed 24th May 2017 14:35 UTC in reply to "Sweet museum exhibit ..."
jockm Member since:
2012-12-22

Short of something like the KIM-1, or AIM-65, probably not. Just about anything with video generation circuitry is going to need to share a common clock multiplier with the CPU. 60KHz (max) isn't going to do that.

The exception would be video hardware that had it's own memory and communicated over a bus. The TMS9918 — the VDP in the TI 99/4A — would probably work, but I don't believe there were any 6502 systems of that vintage that used it.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Sweet museum exhibit ...
by Alfman on Wed 24th May 2017 15:15 UTC in reply to "RE: Sweet museum exhibit ..."
Alfman Member since:
2011-01-28

jockm,

Short of something like the KIM-1, or AIM-65, probably not. Just about anything with video generation circuitry is going to need to share a common clock multiplier with the CPU. 60KHz (max) isn't going to do that.

The exception would be video hardware that had it's own memory and communicated over a bus. The TMS9918 — the VDP in the TI 99/4A — would probably work, but I don't believe there were any 6502 systems of that vintage that used it.


You could probably connect an active adapter with a microcontroller or fpga in between the slow CPU output and faster video scanline requirements. It could be considered cheating, but at least it should work and most people looking at it on display wouldn't really care about the adapter.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Sweet museum exhibit ...
by whartung on Wed 24th May 2017 18:05 UTC in reply to "RE: Sweet museum exhibit ..."
whartung Member since:
2005-07-06

Short of something like the KIM-1, or AIM-65, probably not. Just about anything with video generation circuitry is going to need to share a common clock multiplier with the CPU. 60KHz (max) isn't going to do that.


It was nice seeing BASIC run on it, however. Pretty snappy for 60KHz.

It begs the question if the video is clocked properly (i.e. the CPU get the 60K clock, while the rest get their normal clock), would it work in, say, an Apple. I think it would be problematic in an Atari, the ANTIC could be pretty chatty in terms of interrupts and such.

I wonder how much power it uses, and I wonder if it's an electromagnetic white noise generator of any impact. My TV used to just snow up as soon as I powered up my KIM-1 board back in the day.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Sweet museum exhibit ...
by jockm on Thu 25th May 2017 01:51 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Sweet museum exhibit ..."
jockm Member since:
2012-12-22

The kim-1 was basically a radio antenna that could do computations. I have fond memories of that machine.

As for interfacing with an ANTIC, there is just no way a 60Hz system could keep up with it's requirements.

There are VDPs that you could interface with, but none of them were in common 6502 systems of the era

Reply Score: 2

RE: Sweet museum exhibit ...
by JLF65 on Wed 24th May 2017 14:41 UTC in reply to "Sweet museum exhibit ..."
JLF65 Member since:
2005-07-06

It should be possible... with some BIOS changes. Like the Atari 800 - some timing is done via software loops... those would need to be altered. At least the hardware doesn't depend on any weird timing issues. The main DMA controller asserts a wait line to the 6502 when it fetches data.

The primary thing you'd have to be VERY careful about is how much time you spend in interrupt handlers. For example, most computers do a certain amount of work for the OS in the vertical blank - updating the display registers, updating the inputs, etc. At a mere 60 kHz, there's only a few hundred instructions you can do during the vertical blank before using up ALL the CPU time. You'd really need to drop the interrupt frequency to avoid this, which has its own complications.

Reply Score: 3

Impressive ...
by ameasures on Wed 24th May 2017 14:48 UTC
ameasures
Member since:
2006-01-09

As I recall: the first issue of the UK magazine "Personal Computer World" had a build your own processor not entirely dissimilar to this. That processor was staggeringly crude by almost any standard but functional apparently.
It was around the time the Motorola 6800 started to arrive here, and before the Rockwell 6502 appeared, so approximately 1977.
Any one else feel old?

Reply Score: 2

Indeed art...
by dionicio on Wed 24th May 2017 15:02 UTC
dionicio
Member since:
2006-07-12

But a clear attempt at ripping the sorcery veil of a great engineering achievement, the 6502.

Worth every penny. Lyceums should buy. Has to be accompanied with a library [paper and acrylic rounds, please].

Making 5K "manufacturing variances" dance along, a hell in itself ;) Choreographic Art.

Putting this kind of works -the engineering part- along with ENIAC.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Indeed art...
by dionicio on Wed 24th May 2017 15:05 UTC in reply to "Indeed art..."
dionicio Member since:
2006-07-12

Don't plug next to the laser printer ;D

Reply Score: 2

Thanks for the post
by mgarba on Wed 24th May 2017 15:19 UTC
mgarba
Member since:
2011-04-23

Terrific! This monster project is lovable from any angle, even for a software-only specialist.

The effort / time / money spent on this thing... Speechless.

Reply Score: 1

Wall Art...
by dionicio on Wed 24th May 2017 15:53 UTC
dionicio
Member since:
2006-07-12

Shipped with few-cycles' games oblige ;) [And Yes, that video multiplier also].

Reply Score: 2

Comment by Drumhellar
by Drumhellar on Wed 24th May 2017 20:04 UTC
Drumhellar
Member since:
2005-07-12

The 6502 is the famous processor found at the core of such influential computer systems as the Apple ][, the Commodore PET, the Atari 400 and 800 home video game consoles, the BBC Micro, and the Tamagotchi digital pet. Slight variations of it were found in the Commodore 64, the Atari 2600, and the original Nintendo Entertainment System.


And Bender.
http://spectrum.ieee.org/semiconductors/processors/the-truth-about-...

Reply Score: 2