Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 9th Oct 2017 19:44 UTC
Windows

In a series of tweets, Microsoft's Joe Belfiore has revealed that the software giant is no longer developing new features or hardware for Windows 10 Mobile. While Windows Phone fans had hoped Microsoft would update the platform with new features, it's now clear the operating system has been placed into servicing mode, with just bug fixes and security updates for existing users.

I was a first adopter of Windows Phone 7 - so much so I imported a device from the US during launch week. It was an amazing operating system to use, and I loved it. Soon, however, it became clear Microsoft was unable to attract developers to the platform, and even those applications that did make it weren't particularly good - not even the ones written by Microsoft itself, which were often simple HTML-based apps, which simply weren't good advocates for the platform. As a Windows Phone user, you were always scraping the very bottom of the barrel when it came to applications.

To make matters worse, the move to Windows NT with Windows Phone 8 was a disaster. Existing phones weren't updated, and instead, only got an entirely pointless Windows Phone 7.8 update. This didn't do anything to enamour users to the platform, which makes it all the more weird when Microsoft did it again when Windows Phone 10 was released. In any event, Windows Phone 8 did mature over its short lifetime, gaining many features other platforms had had for ages. Sadly, the application situation never improved, and to this day, the Windows Store is a ghost town.

It really sucks that Windows Phone became a victim of blatant mismanagement and market forces, because I still love the operating system and its unique UI. One day, I'll have to sit down and write the counterpart to my Palm retrospective, covering the entire PocketPC/Windows Mobile/Windows Phone era.

It's been a wild ride.

Order by: Score:
You think that is sad?
by dhuv on Mon 9th Oct 2017 20:19 UTC
dhuv
Member since:
2009-12-27

I feel what Microsoft did to Nokia is even worse. They sold the N9 in crappy markets and it still outsold Windows Phones. They they killed that OS which could have actually had a chance unlike the software they were pushing.

Reply Score: 9

RE: You think that is sad?
by DefineDecision on Mon 9th Oct 2017 20:39 UTC in reply to "You think that is sad?"
DefineDecision Member since:
2017-10-09

Disclaimer: I loved my N800 and I would still use my N900 if it weren't so RAM deprived... and I had system patches.

There's a LOT of revisionism amongst Maemo fans about Maemo's future. Even without Windows Phone, the Symbian team hated Maemo, and tried to strangle it in the crib numerous times. There's no way they'd go for Maemo, but rather likely along the path of modernizing Symbian's UI. (Symbian was robust enough on the inside, but touch support arrived really late on the mainstream devices.)

I also unlike most Maemo fans LIKED Windows Phone. My Lumia 520 was both cheap and quality, and the OS buttery smooth on low end problem. The problem was they moved too late; and perhaps Android would have been the better choice, no matter how shit it actually was. (That, and Microsoft backstabbing WM6, WP7, WP8, and finally WM10 users didn't help.)

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: You think that is sad?
by judgen on Mon 9th Oct 2017 20:59 UTC in reply to "RE: You think that is sad?"
judgen Member since:
2006-07-12

I have lost the link, but was there not a guy/company that did an experiment and soldered the 1200mhz OMAP3640 onto the N900 mainboard by replacing the 600mhz OMAP3430, and thus also doubled the ram? (I think they took the cpu from the droid2, but i am not sure). I think it worked perfectly fine. (the forum with the posts was in the 2010-2013 timespan)

I hope someone else in the comment section knows.

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: You think that is sad?
by ajs124 on Mon 9th Oct 2017 21:13 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: You think that is sad?"
ajs124 Member since:
2013-08-28

You're thinking of the neo900: https://neo900.org/

Reply Score: 3

RE[4]: You think that is sad?
by judgen on Mon 9th Oct 2017 22:01 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: You think that is sad?"
judgen Member since:
2006-07-12

No. I mean someone used a very expensive soldering lab to change the CPU. (and ram is on the OMAP since it is a SoC)

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: You think that is sad?
by ssokolow on Mon 9th Oct 2017 23:41 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: You think that is sad?"
ssokolow Member since:
2010-01-21

SoC doesn't mean the RAM is on the chip. I know that at least the OMAP3 used in the OpenPandora and OMAP5 used in the DragonBox Pyra take separate RAM.

(It's what allowed the OpenPandora to be upgraded from 256MiB to 512 MiB very early in its lifecycle without any board redesign and what will allow them to offer both 2GiB and 4GiB variants of the Pyra without awkward "must match the built-in RAM" requirements for what chips can be used for the second two gigabytes.)

That said, there is a twist to the definition of "on the chip" which may be what you're thinking of.

Some SoCs... such as the one in my original Raspberry Pi, are designed so the RAM stacks on top of the SoC even though it's a separate chip.

Edited 2017-10-09 23:46 UTC

Reply Score: 5

RE[6]: You think that is sad?
by Morgan on Tue 10th Oct 2017 15:15 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: You think that is sad?"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

SoC doesn't mean the RAM is on the chip.


Exactly, I think judgen is thinking of PoP, or "package on package", like the BCM2835 used in the Raspberry Pi. Later versions of the chip used on the Pi were still SoC (system on a chip) but were no longer PoP, with separate RAM chips on the underside of the board. This allowed for better cooling of the CPU itself, necessary with the Pi 3's BCM2837.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: You think that is sad?
by No it isnt on Tue 10th Oct 2017 15:58 UTC in reply to "RE: You think that is sad?"
No it isnt Member since:
2005-11-14

They didn't give Meego much of a chance, but it was a more mature OS than WP7, and probably WP8 as well. I just resurrected my N9, and notice that others still haven't caught up with the keyboard. The always on display could be made more useful than the one my Samsung has, and consumed less power.

As for Windows Phone, it only ever got praise for its smooth scrolling and the novelty launcher.

Reply Score: 0

RE[3]: You think that is sad?
by leech on Tue 10th Oct 2017 18:20 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: You think that is sad?"
leech Member since:
2006-01-10

I agree with the N9. I now have a Galaxy Note 8, and the 'AOD' is still inferior to the N9's. Sure it looks nicer, but the functionality of it is no where near as good, and the power consumption is higher as well.

I still love MeeGo over any Android phone I've ever owned. The way you handle everything (and the keyboard) just seems more natural.

Reply Score: 0

modmans2ndcoming Member since:
2005-11-09

Why would they catch up to a physical keyboard? That statement is like saying car companies still haven't caught up to the quality of the buggy whips being produced.

Reply Score: 2

RE: You think that is sad?
by mutantsushi on Wed 11th Oct 2017 01:43 UTC in reply to "You think that is sad?"
mutantsushi Member since:
2006-08-18

What I think is sad is dropping WP10 after pushing W8/10 interface based on WP parallel so hard. It worked great for WP, it wasn't a good idea for desktop yet that's all they ended up with. f--king ridiculous. (Classic Shell user writing)

Edited 2017-10-11 01:44 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: You think that is sad?
by The123king on Wed 11th Oct 2017 07:38 UTC in reply to "RE: You think that is sad?"
The123king Member since:
2009-05-28

The Modern/Metro side of Mixcrosoft is just one big disaster

Reply Score: 1

RE: You think that is sad?
by zima on Thu 12th Oct 2017 12:17 UTC in reply to "You think that is sad?"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Ehh, what you're saying has become an urban myth...

MS didn't "do" anything to Nokia, Nokia board wanted Windows Phone - why do you think they specifically brought Microsoft guy to the position of a CEO?

Maemo/MeeGo projects were troubled, took too long, with restarts along the way, were not helped by internal infighting between it and Symbian and S40 divisions. When MeeGo was getting somewhere with N9, it was already too late / Android had too much momentum (and Nokia board really disliked Android)
Meanwhile Nokia was selling for too many years hardly changing products, just in many packagings...

Reply Score: 4

RE: You think that is sad?
by modmans2ndcoming on Sat 14th Oct 2017 19:41 UTC in reply to "You think that is sad?"
modmans2ndcoming Member since:
2005-11-09

What they did? Microsoft did them a huge favor by removing a large legacy workforce that was too expensive for them to compete in the modern smartphone world.

Reply Score: 2

Nth_Man
Member since:
2010-05-16

In related news: Librem 5 smartphone hits its $1.5 million dollar goal

Librem 5 - A Security and Privacy Focused Phone
https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/

"Running Free/Libre and Open Source software and a GNU+Linux Operating System designed to create an open development utopia, rather than the walled gardens from all other phone providers.

The Librem 5 phone will be the world's first ever IP-native mobile handset, using end-to-end encrypted decentralized communication."

Reply Score: 2

leech Member since:
2006-01-10

Awesome, if they're ever released in a way that normal people can buy them, I'll get one.

Reply Score: 0

Flat
by judgen on Mon 9th Oct 2017 20:51 UTC
judgen
Member since:
2006-07-12

Perhaps one step closer to killing the flat trend. (one can hope and dream at least)

Reply Score: 7

It is a shame
by Pa1m0ne on Mon 9th Oct 2017 21:35 UTC
Pa1m0ne
Member since:
2017-05-29

From a consumer stand point it was the same as Palm I think
Only it positioned itself less of a 'Windows Mobile 2.0 reboot' like Palm did and just kept at the numbering scheme.
WM6.5 to WP7 was not just the next thing obviously, but to the average user buying a phone it was.
All the app written for the platform were useless upon WP7's arrival. And it was the same with Palm
Got a Treo 650? Upgrade to a Pre, it's the same company but all of a sudden all the software I might have bought won't work.
(Apple ][ > Macintosh anyone?)
But at least Palm tried, I really never saw M$ do much of anything to promote WP after 8.0
I guess they expected Nokia to do all that for them? I still can't work that out
I had a Nokia Lumia 530 btw, loved it to death. I still put my sim card in it for a few days every now and again
Anecdotally, there's a Microsoft store in one of the malls by my work. I would venture in occasionally just like I did for the Appel store, just lookin around.
They used to have various Windows Phones on display, but a year or so ago they were gone never to be seen again. That was the point when I really knew for sure that it was dead even if it was practically dead way before that

Reply Score: 4

RE: It is a shame
by Sidux on Tue 10th Oct 2017 09:18 UTC in reply to "It is a shame"
Sidux Member since:
2015-03-10

Still remember when they laughed at the iPhone, they laughed at the Chromebook and mocked Android too.
They had potential soon after realising their mistake but the reality is just people no longer need Windows (Mobile or not)..

Reply Score: 3

Best smartphone experience so far
by Wondercool on Mon 9th Oct 2017 22:00 UTC
Wondercool
Member since:
2005-07-08

What a pity, I really liked the GUI and it was also super fast on very humble hardware. But lack of apps killed it for me too.

Could MS be persuaded to open source it?? Maybe enough people want to keep it alive?

Reply Score: 4

judgen Member since:
2006-07-12

NT is super unlikely to ever be opensourced.

Reply Score: 3

Wondercool Member since:
2005-07-08

Unfortunately, you are probably right.

Though it looks like more and more companies realise that it's a lot cheaper to have an army of free developers doing the dirty work for you rather than paying thousands of people yourself, there might still be a cultural issue that is preventing MS from open sourcing it. Google realised that and even Oracle abandonned Solaris as there is no money in OSes unless you have full control. You don't get full control unless by historic precedent (Apple IOS and MSDOS/Windows) or making it free (Android).

It might also be that the code looks too much like Windows 10 (for desktop and server), I don't know.

Reply Score: 2

tylerdurden Member since:
2009-03-17

Well, NT has been opensourced before. Just not willingly, or legally ;-)

Reply Score: 3

Kochise Member since:
2006-03-03

And only partially. But I digress, even if the whole was available, I shrug at the idea to dig into such a mess-ive amount of code. Understanding every bit of it would require such a long time it could only be done by a staff of dedicated skilled persons that better redo it from scratch.

Reply Score: 0

The123king Member since:
2009-05-28

http://www.reactos.org/

Edited 2017-10-11 15:38 UTC

Reply Score: 1

Nelson where are you?
by enx23 on Tue 10th Oct 2017 06:18 UTC
enx23
Member since:
2008-12-17

I am wondering if Nelson ( http://www.osnews.com/user/Nelson ) has read this. Few years ago he was promoting heavily here Windows phones and how bright future they have based on quarter to quarter sales.

Edited 2017-10-10 06:20 UTC

Reply Score: 3

RE: Nelson where are you?
by fmaxwell on Tue 10th Oct 2017 08:41 UTC in reply to "Nelson where are you?"
fmaxwell Member since:
2005-11-13

I am wondering if Nelson ( http://www.osnews.com/user/Nelson ) has read this. Few years ago he was promoting heavily here Windows phones and how bright future they have based on quarter to quarter sales.

I'm sure that Microsoft would have pulled funding for Nelson's social media activity once they made the decision to kill Windows phone.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Nelson where are you?
by Thom_Holwerda on Tue 10th Oct 2017 09:33 UTC in reply to "Nelson where are you?"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

I am wondering if Nelson ( http://www.osnews.com/user/Nelson ) has read this. Few years ago he was promoting heavily here Windows phones and how bright future they have based on quarter to quarter sales.


Man, the number of times that guy/girl attacked me for stating WP was a failure and dying...

I can take it, but a "damn, sorry, you (AND EVERYONE ELSE) was right" would be nice ;) .

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Nelson where are you?
by Morgan on Tue 10th Oct 2017 15:20 UTC in reply to "RE: Nelson where are you?"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

Nelson hasn't been around in a while, but I recall the last time he posted, he was being critical of Microsoft and almost apologetic for his prior behavior.

http://www.osnews.com/permalink?647025

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Nelson where are you?
by Vanders on Wed 11th Oct 2017 12:52 UTC in reply to "RE: Nelson where are you?"
Vanders Member since:
2005-07-06

Hah, I kind of miss the long argumentative threads I used to have with Nelson. But not much.

Reply Score: 2

v RE: Nelson where are you?
by DefineDecision on Tue 10th Oct 2017 12:25 UTC in reply to "Nelson where are you?"
RE[2]: Nelson where are you?
by mutantsushi on Wed 11th Oct 2017 01:38 UTC in reply to "RE: Nelson where are you?"
mutantsushi Member since:
2006-08-18

Ha, yeah I think you missed a "W" or two... Polish spelling :-)

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Nelson where are you?
by zima on Thu 12th Oct 2017 12:18 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Nelson where are you?"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

It's "Grzegorz"; no W...

Reply Score: 3

Embrace
by nicubunu on Tue 10th Oct 2017 06:45 UTC
nicubunu
Member since:
2014-01-08

Actually, Microsoft does not really need an own phone OS now when their embrace of the Android goes to almost the entire system, from Cortana to launcher, to a browser and the office suite. And they still have the patent leverage to control the manufacturers.

Reply Score: 5

RE: Embrace
by judgen on Tue 10th Oct 2017 08:44 UTC in reply to "Embrace"
judgen Member since:
2006-07-12

The edge on android is so far just a skin on chrome and does not use their engine.

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Embrace
by Morgan on Tue 10th Oct 2017 15:24 UTC in reply to "RE: Embrace"
Morgan Member since:
2005-06-29

I find that fascinating, given how many non-Chrome-based browsers exist for Android. I would completely understand it if an iOS version of Edge used Safari, Apple requires it after all. But Google is fairly open about allowing other browser engines to exist on their platform.

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: Embrace
by modmans2ndcoming on Sat 14th Oct 2017 19:51 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Embrace"
modmans2ndcoming Member since:
2005-11-09

why do the extra work when people just want to integrate their mobile and desktop experiences?

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Embrace
by mutantsushi on Wed 11th Oct 2017 01:39 UTC in reply to "RE: Embrace"
mutantsushi Member since:
2006-08-18

And that contradicts any MS "need"... how?

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Embrace
by modmans2ndcoming on Sat 14th Oct 2017 19:50 UTC in reply to "RE: Embrace"
modmans2ndcoming Member since:
2005-11-09

Yes. So that edge users can leverage their bookmarks and other integration features. Who cares about the mobile rendering engine?

Reply Score: 2

Comment by calden
by calden on Tue 10th Oct 2017 08:39 UTC
calden
Member since:
2012-02-02

Windows for mobile devices isn’t being canceled, only the current iteration, Windows 10 for mobile. Microsoft is instead focusing their efforts on Adromeda, yes, yes, Google also has a project that uses that name.

http://www.techradar.com/news/andromeda-os-is-microsofts-big-plan-t... mobile OS Adromeda

Edited 2017-10-10 08:40 UTC

Reply Score: 3

Developers, Developers, Developers
by A.Dev on Tue 10th Oct 2017 09:31 UTC
A.Dev
Member since:
2017-10-10

Never thought I'd quote Steve Balmer, but the decline of MS here and elsewhere over the last 20 years has been about their poor developer strategy.

The seeds of destruction were sown in the mid 1990 at the height of the Win95 launch - their arrogance took developers for granted - trying to ignore, crush or subvert the rise of both web and Java as crossplatform development tools for the client and server respectively.

Both the web on the client and java on the server were streets ahead in terms of developer productivity - MFC, VB and C++ all paled into comparison. MS tried to kill them but developers voted with their feet.

People in MS of course realized that Java and the features it represented ( automatic memory management, cross platform 'binaries', batteries included libraries ) was a good idea - but rather than join the rest of the industry it created it's own clone - C#/.NET. Similarly with the web - sort of trying to reinvent web markup with XAML.

While C# was and is a nicely designed language, not enough people cared - it's the platform stupid...

People had got used to being able to write cross platform stuff that just worked - why write in C# on .NET that only worked properly on Windows?
Also it took a long time to make the runtime performant - good VM's were hard.

They was also a large amount of churn on their tool set - it wasn't clear what was the future - so developers kept to the sidelines while MS sorted it's self out.

They lost a large part of a generation of developers, by putting their perceived interests above developers and assuming developers had no choice but to follow as they were the dominant platform....

They now show signs of turning that around, but I think, by and large, it's too late for propriety MS platforms.

Reply Score: 4

modmans2ndcoming Member since:
2005-11-09

Yes. Moving toward a more web focused application platform and away from a desktop platform will give their developers the flexibility they seek and make it very easy for those developers to publish their applications to the Windows store.

Desktop applications are dead. The legacy stuff that exists will be all that exists for desktop wrt maintenance.

Reply Score: 2

Comment by kurkosdr
by kurkosdr on Tue 10th Oct 2017 09:44 UTC
kurkosdr
Member since:
2011-04-11

Let's be honest, if you were a Microsoft phone customer and had your HTC HD2 made insta-obsolete in a matter of months after purchase (no OS upgrade and no ability to run apps of the new OS), and then had the same thing happen with your WP7 phone, would you touch anything from that company again? If you were a retailer, would you stock a device that could be made insta-obsolete in a matter of months?

At one point, the only customers the OS had were true believers and people who accidentally bought the OS while "buying a Nokia"

Edited 2017-10-10 09:46 UTC

Reply Score: 2

It is actually a nicely calm ride
by avgalen on Tue 10th Oct 2017 11:27 UTC
avgalen
Member since:
2010-09-23

"The reports of my dead are greatly exaggerated" ;)

https://www.windowscentral.com/windows-10-mobile-feature2-complete-c...

There are a total of 80 fixes and five improvements/features currently in testing with the feature2 builds.


The Lumia 1520 that I, my wife, and my mother are all using are now over 3.5 year old and are still doing everything we want them to do except
* ABN-Amro Banking app stopped at the beginning of this month. The mobile website has more functionality but is much slower and cumbersome to use
* Duo Lingo doesn't offer Japanese (iOS only, Android maybe someday)

In the beginning it was a wild ride with smaller and larger OS-Updates all the way to 8.1 "Denim" that greatly improved the functionality (swiping keyboard, notifications, slowmotion camera, miracast, VPN) while keeping the phone crazy fast and easy to use.
Then came the migration to 10 that dropped support for many phones and introduced a bit of slowness and buggyness but gave me better builtin apps and the promise of UWP development for both phone and desktop. 10 got improved over time and my phone is now just as fast and stable as in the 8.1 timeframe with better apps included, but no new hardware, completely shriveled up marketshare and we all know what that does to app-development.

So yes, Windows phone is dead, but on our devices it is working better than ever and it still receives monthly bugfixes. We will probably continue to use them for another 2 years.

(I paid 500 for my wifes and 2x150 for the other 2 later, so 800 Euro is going to give us about 12.5 years of hardware. There is no way I am ever going to be on the 800-Euro-every-2-years-bandwagon)

Reply Score: 6

darknexus Member since:
2008-07-15

Uh oh, did we find Nelson? ;)

Reply Score: 0

avgalen Member since:
2010-09-23

Did you find Nelson? No, we are different people. I wonder why you would confuse us. As far as I remember Nelson is a bit more "out there" which is why you started with "uh oh", I guess.

Is there anything in my post that you find fault with?

Reply Score: 4

Comment by Drumhellar
by Drumhellar on Tue 10th Oct 2017 19:45 UTC
Drumhellar
Member since:
2005-07-12

To make matters worse, the move to Windows NT with Windows Phone 8 was a disaster. Existing phones weren't updated, and instead, only got an entirely pointless Windows Phone 7.8 update.


In fairness, it was pretty well understood early on that WP7 was a stop-gap, and that WP7 phones wouldn't be updated to WP8.

And, 7.8 wasn't entirely pointless. It added missing parts of UWP that allowed apps to run on either WP7 or WP8 with zero or minimal changes.

I really liked my WP7 and WP8 phones. I'm really sad to see Windows Phone go. It was a very nice OS to use.

Reply Score: 4

RE: Comment by Drumhellar
by kurkosdr on Tue 10th Oct 2017 19:50 UTC in reply to "Comment by Drumhellar"
kurkosdr Member since:
2011-04-11

In fairness, it was pretty well understood early on that WP7 was a stop-gap, and that WP7 phones wouldn't be updated to WP8.


No it wasn't, in fact users were sold on smooth upgrades.

And WP7.8 still didn't offer WP8 compatibility.

Reply Score: 0

RE[2]: Comment by Drumhellar
by Drumhellar on Tue 10th Oct 2017 21:41 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by Drumhellar"
Drumhellar Member since:
2005-07-12

I bought my Nokia 710 early on, knowing that it wouldn't get WP8.

And, yes, 7.8 was forwards compatible with 8. As in, if you targeted 7.8, your app would also run on WP8.

On the other hand, targeting 7 or 7.5 would mean you'd still have to make minor change before it ran on 8.

Edited 2017-10-10 21:44 UTC

Reply Score: 4

RE: Comment by Drumhellar
by Vanders on Wed 11th Oct 2017 13:57 UTC in reply to "Comment by Drumhellar"
Vanders Member since:
2005-07-06

It was known by some people, but let's not pretend that sales people in phone shops were telling customers "Buy this 'phone now and it'll be obsolete with no upgrade path in 6 months time!" Lots of people bought Windows 7 phones without knowing, or caring, and were rightly upset when they were chucked out into the snow to fend for themselves.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by Drumhellar
by Drumhellar on Wed 11th Oct 2017 18:21 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by Drumhellar"
Drumhellar Member since:
2005-07-12

Lets not pretend that sales people in phone shops were telling people "Buy this phone" ;)

But, seriously, lets not pretend that people expected upgrades to to the next Windows, since the large number of phone owners were using Android, which especially then were largely NOT receiving updates.

Reply Score: 4

RE[3]: Comment by Drumhellar
by kurkosdr on Thu 12th Oct 2017 09:25 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by Drumhellar"
kurkosdr Member since:
2011-04-11

But, seriously, lets not pretend that people expected upgrades to to the next Windows, since the large number of phone owners were using Android, which especially then were largely NOT receiving updates.


Dear angry Mario (your avatar makes you look aggressive for no reason btw), my Optimus 2X got 2 major upgrades, to Gingerbread and ICS. My LG Optimus 3D also got 2 major upgrades, to Gingerbread and ICS.

I selected those two flagships smartphones because they are considered "the worst ever" in terms of upgrades (one has an Nvidia chip and the other has tons of custom code for stereoscopic support).

Every Android flagship got at least two major upgrades. Compare and contrast to months-old WP7 flagships which never received a WP8 upgrade.

In the post-iPhone world, nobody wants to buy a flagship smartphone that doesn't get any major upgrades ever, if anything at least for the resale value and the physiological aspect of it.

Edited 2017-10-12 09:28 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Comment by Drumhellar
by moondevil on Thu 12th Oct 2017 12:28 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Comment by Drumhellar"
moondevil Member since:
2005-07-08

Nice that you have enough budget to buy flagship phones.

The majority of people across the globe don't have it.


https://developer.android.com/about/dashboards/index.html

Reply Score: 3

RE[5]: Comment by Drumhellar
by darknexus on Thu 12th Oct 2017 15:20 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by Drumhellar"
darknexus Member since:
2008-07-15

Nice that you have enough budget to buy flagship phones.

The majority of people across the globe don't have it.

And...? What's your point? Some people can afford to buy a private aircraft. I can't. Should I be pissed off because someone's done well? If you want a flagship phone that badly and can't afford it, either save up for one or, even better, maybe you don't need that flagship phone at all and should have other priorities.

Reply Score: 2

RE[6]: Comment by Drumhellar
by moondevil on Fri 13th Oct 2017 06:43 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by Drumhellar"
moondevil Member since:
2005-07-08

The point was the remark made by kurkosdr.

In the post-iPhone world, nobody wants to buy a flagship smartphone that doesn't get any major upgrades ever, if anything at least for the resale value and the physiological aspect of it.


As if everyone had the money for doing it.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by Drumhellar
by zima on Thu 12th Oct 2017 12:19 UTC in reply to "RE: Comment by Drumhellar"
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

let's not pretend that sales people in phone shops were telling customers "Buy this 'phone now and it'll be obsolete with no upgrade path in 6 months time!" Lots of people bought Windows 7 phones without knowing, or caring

Somehow this doesn't hurt Android phones...

Edited 2017-10-12 12:20 UTC

Reply Score: 4

ignoring the real problem
by missingxtension on Wed 11th Oct 2017 02:41 UTC
missingxtension
Member since:
2011-01-14

It seems that everyone seems to forget the real problem. If Microsoft would have just rolled over some winmo things, if they would have made it open. The app repository things are nice, but adding sources means opening the system to average joe@xda. They copied apple to the extend that they could never compete, not even apple can compete with themselves.

Reply Score: 0

Lack of Commitement
by FredBed on Wed 11th Oct 2017 14:24 UTC
FredBed
Member since:
2015-09-29

The PRIMARY problems with MSFT's play in Phone is their lack of focus and lack of commitment.

The problem of “there aren’t enough apps” can be pretty easily solved when you’ve got the money MSFT has. You hold several hundred developer events, with free training. You hand out free phones like candy bars. You PAY companies to port or rewrite their apps to your platform. You lavish money and attention on the top 100 app dev companies. You listen to these people and tailor your platform to make life easy for them.

The problem with phone was divided attention internally (phone was happening at the same time Windows 8 and Windows RT were happening), the lack of mainlining the product internally (it wasn’t really “one windows” until RS 2), the insistence on secrecy internally and externally (THAT worked out well...why not FLOOD the market with protos and previews and get feedback), the overall lack of commitment (they needed to spend millions to promote the platform, as I mentioned earlier), AND last but not least, the lack of a clear vision for the final product. An everyman’s phone? A corporate device? What were they building?

They could have made the phone successful. But it would have taken clear focus and a huge financial commitment. Neither of these was happening given the internal power struggles in the immediately post-Sinofsky era.

Edited 2017-10-11 14:26 UTC

Reply Score: 4

RE: Lack of Commitement
by x86_x64 on Thu 12th Oct 2017 12:09 UTC in reply to "Lack of Commitement"
x86_x64 Member since:
2017-10-11

No one really needs "moar appz!" on the phone. Give me 20-30 really good, quality apps and that will be all I will ever need on a phone.

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Lack of Commitement
by kurkosdr on Thu 12th Oct 2017 21:07 UTC in reply to "RE: Lack of Commitement"
kurkosdr Member since:
2011-04-11

No one really needs "moar appz!" on the phone. Give me 20-30 really good, quality apps and that will be all I will ever need on a phone.


Aaah... the "90%" illusion, also known as the "that alternative OS has "90%" of all the apps you need so it should be good enough" illusion.

The problem is that there is always "that one app" a user really wants and can't get it. And it is different for each user. Be it some sport/fitness app (like Strava which my dad uses), some social networking app like the Instagram app (or some feature of the Instragram app), some local banking app, some local meetup app, some local public transport app, some local university app, that handy app which finds cheap LPG gas stations in your country, etcetera. And I didn't even have to mention games.

So, between comparable products, no customer who wants these things is going to compromise for little or no benefit and buy a comparable product running "that alternative OS".

Microsoft should have resolved the app situation no matter what: Dumping phones at cost, make Windows Phone run Android apps (even at a source-compatibility level without play services), you name it. The reason Microsoft is what it is today is because MS-DOS was compatible with CP/M apps but was cheaper.

Edited 2017-10-12 21:23 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[3]: Lack of Commitement
by x86_x64 on Fri 13th Oct 2017 07:56 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Lack of Commitement"
x86_x64 Member since:
2017-10-11

I don't get your point. You do realize the sheer amount of apps does not guarantee you will find "that one app", right? There was a point in BlackBerry history some years ago when their AppStore had quite a huge amount of apps, but it was still useless, since that huge amount was mostly crap, and STILL lacked the most important stuff.

Reply Score: 1

RE[4]: Lack of Commitement
by kurkosdr on Fri 13th Oct 2017 10:12 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Lack of Commitement"
kurkosdr Member since:
2011-04-11

I don't get your point. You do realize the sheer amount of apps does not guarantee you will find "that one app", right?


Aww, cut the drivel. You know Android and iOS appserv stores are bigger and better than the Windows Phone store. All the kinds of apps I mentioned in my previous post are more likely to be found on Android and iOS stores than the Windows store.

You know that nobody forces you to argue for the sake of arguing, right?

Edited 2017-10-13 10:14 UTC

Reply Score: 2

RE[5]: Lack of Commitement
by x86_x64 on Fri 13th Oct 2017 12:11 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Lack of Commitement"
x86_x64 Member since:
2017-10-11

Aww, cut the drivel. You know Android and iOS appserv stores are bigger and better than the Windows Phone store. All the kinds of apps I mentioned in my previous post are more likely to be found on Android and iOS stores than the Windows store.

Bullshit.

You know that nobody forces you to argue for the sake of arguing, right?

So why are YOU doing it?

Reply Score: 1

RE[6]: Lack of Commitement
by kurkosdr on Sat 14th Oct 2017 14:36 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Lack of Commitement"
kurkosdr Member since:
2011-04-11

Bullshit.


Nope. Truth.

Reply Score: 2

Its a real shame..
by bassbeast on Thu 12th Oct 2017 20:19 UTC
bassbeast
Member since:
2007-11-11

Windows Phones are really solid and have a nice UI, in fact I'd have no problem recommending a Microsoft 640 like my wife has if you don't need a ton of apps. The call quality is solid, Cortana works really well,takes good pictures, its just a nice solid phone.

They are gonna support the Windows 10 phones until 2019 and the apps that are in the store aren't gonna be going anywhere because it costs them nothing to keep them up so if you spot one cheap? They really aren't bad phones.

Reply Score: 2

Windows 10
by codewrangler on Fri 13th Oct 2017 17:06 UTC
codewrangler
Member since:
2010-01-28

This just means that they won't be calling it 'Windows 10 mobile'. My guess is that they will make phone hardware that is actually Windows 10...plain and simple.

Reply Score: 1