Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sat 14th Oct 2017 13:24 UTC
BeOS & Derivatives

With all the infrastructure changes and improvements, paired with the bug fixes in our master Haiku branch, we are slowly and steadily moving towards the R1 Beta 1 release which will live in its own R1(!) branch.

R1 Beta 1 installations should slowly roll towards the final R1 release via package updates. R1 Beta 1 is going to be a big step towards our first stable release.

The exact dates are still not solid. I know we have been saying "soon" for quite a while... But soon.

...

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I'll take your GIF and raise you a...
by jockm on Sat 14th Oct 2017 15:53 UTC
jockm
Member since:
2012-12-22

...wake me up when this actually happens.

Reply Score: 4

haiku is broken
by bbjimmy on Sat 14th Oct 2017 16:55 UTC
bbjimmy
Member since:
2006-03-25

The current nightlies of haiku are briken ... https://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/13727 describes a change to the abi that has not had time to work through the system yet.

Reply Score: 2

Meh
by modmans2ndcoming on Sat 14th Oct 2017 19:38 UTC
modmans2ndcoming
Member since:
2005-11-09

10 years too late.

Reply Score: 0

RE: Meh
by dsuden on Sat 14th Oct 2017 22:37 UTC in reply to "Meh"
dsuden Member since:
2010-01-28

10 years too late for what? It’s a fun, hobby OS, and seen in that light, it’s also an extremely good one. It was never particularly intended to take over the world or become the next Microsoft. A lot of good people have worked very hard on it and it’s still making nice progress despite the occasional ill-considered, mean-spirited post.

Reply Score: 7

RE[2]: Meh
by modmans2ndcoming on Sun 15th Oct 2017 16:31 UTC in reply to "RE: Meh"
modmans2ndcoming Member since:
2005-11-09

Back during the inception phase there was a lot of excitement about it. A lot of people talked about it having the potential of Linux.

Now, yes, its a hobby OS and can't live up to the potential it was hoped it would be since the industry has selected and moved on.

Reply Score: 5

RE[3]: Meh
by Kochise on Sun 15th Oct 2017 17:51 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Meh"
Kochise Member since:
2006-03-03

Well, no, back in the days, it was already far superior than Linux. It had a complete object oriented user interface, file system and api, was stable, media capable, it was lacking network and printer/scanner support, though. R5 was really heading toward the right direction, yet it wasn't counting in Microsoft and its bad habits of oem tying. Hence hardly anyone would buy a separate Beos license if the computer was already sold with Windows in it. Remember, we're talking 1996-1999 here.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Meh
by Darkmage on Sun 15th Oct 2017 19:44 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Meh"
Darkmage Member since:
2006-10-20

The Microsoft/IBM monopoly was always destined to capture and lock the entire market once the idea of customised CPU/system architectures died.

Reply Score: 4

RE[4]: Meh
by Andre on Sun 15th Oct 2017 20:13 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Meh"
Andre Member since:
2005-07-06

Back in the days of BeOS, it was an OS years ahead of the competition, but that was then. When Be Inc. went bankrupt, and OpenBeOS (as Haiku was called in the early days) started, they had to re-create the OS from scratch. Back in the days, there were a number of attempts to re-create BeOS, and Haiku is the only one that survived time.

Back in the days, BeOS has the potential to be the next big thing, and if my memory serves me right, Apple showed interest in BeOS, and BeOS could have been the base for OSX in stead of NeXTStep.

Today, indeed, Haiku is a hobby OS, and currently does not have the potential to obtain a noticeable market share.

Reply Score: 4

RE[5]: Meh
by modmans2ndcoming on Sun 15th Oct 2017 22:15 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Meh"
modmans2ndcoming Member since:
2005-11-09

Yes, both NeXT and Be were interviewed. Ultimately, Apple went with NeXT because they wanted Steve back.

Reply Score: 3

RE[6]: Meh
by Jesuspower on Mon 16th Oct 2017 11:27 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Meh"
Jesuspower Member since:
2006-01-28

I thought it was because Jean-Louis thought he had Apple in his hand and demanded a large amount of money, and gave a garbage presentation based on his idea of the purchase being a done deal.

Reply Score: 1

RE[7]: Meh
by henderson101 on Mon 16th Oct 2017 14:01 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: Meh"
henderson101 Member since:
2006-05-30

It was something like this:

JLG thought it was a done deal. But, Next was more mature, had a richer API and was more polished in general, and had Jobs. JLG infamously asked for a big price, playing from what he thought was a strong hand. But, Apple was always playing the field and saw Jobs/Next as a better prospect. BeOS was a very immature OS. Yeah, it had a lot of good stuff, but as much of the code under the hood was kind of half baked. Remember, this was well before R5.0, and even at that point it was rough in some places (networking, printer support, USB, drivers in general.) In fact, if you look at the time lines, the Apple purchase would have been some time around DR7 and PR1, the latter being closer to R5, but a *long* way off as polished as the OS was before Be Inc folded. If Apple were looking at DR7/DR8, I can imagine that $300M, was a bit of a joke.

I don't think many of you guys will have used DR8, but it was a very different beast. It has the old flawed file system, Tracker (then called "Browser") was pretty different, and the OS felt quite different. I managed to find this if anyone wants to take a look at what it was like:

http://download.unirc.eu/BeOS/Docs/DR8.2/UserDoc/BeOSUsersGuide.pdf

If you look at page 19, you can see just how different the actual Browser UI was -- drives were in windows, not on the desktop, there was a Doc like tray under the Be Menu, the trash was part of the menu structure, windows could do the window shade thing that MacOS windows could use to minimise - it look a bit like the way windows minimise in Windows 3.x.

Edited 2017-10-16 14:03 UTC

Reply Score: 5

couldn't resist.
by Darkmage on Sat 14th Oct 2017 23:26 UTC
Darkmage
Member since:
2006-10-20
Haiku B1
by konrad on Sun 15th Oct 2017 07:47 UTC
konrad
Member since:
2006-01-06

The system it self feels modern, and I cant understand why no modern mainstream OS added Live Quries. Haiku also feels fast and snappy as BeOS did.

Another major benifits compared to BeOS is Qt5 support and soon also KDE frameworks support. Many popular Linux apps can easily be ported to attract more user and make it possible to do real work with the OS.

On the downside, I dont think the look aged well, it looks a bit cartoonish and not up to pair with modern OSes. I guess thats the easy to fix, and they concentrate on show stoppers first, of course.

Reply Score: 6

RE: Haiku B1
by agentj on Sun 15th Oct 2017 07:55 UTC in reply to "Haiku B1"
agentj Member since:
2005-08-19

I think because saying that PC is for education, file managenent and databases is a big lie spread around so parents are suckered into buying new graphic card so that new "encyclopedia" runs better ]:>
What is modern PC usage: porn, torrents, netflix, youtube, other websites, games, movies, ............, work. I think Haiku could handle all of them given set of proper drivers ...

Reply Score: 4

RE[2]: Haiku B1
by tidux on Sun 15th Oct 2017 21:09 UTC in reply to "RE: Haiku B1"
tidux Member since:
2011-08-13

Mesa already exists on Haiku, so bringing that port up to date and adding kernel-module equivalents ("accelerants") would be sufficient to get OpenGL and Vulkan, thus bringing a huge raft of new use cases to Haiku. At that point, I would consider replacing Linux with it even on my work laptop - it's already got a capable terminal, decent web browser, and OpenJDK, so it does everything I need.

Reply Score: 5

RE[2]: Haiku B1
by cipri on Wed 18th Oct 2017 19:33 UTC in reply to "RE: Haiku B1"
cipri Member since:
2007-02-15

You think wrong! No hardware accelerated graphics. Try youtube on haiku! I didn't try haiku the last few years, but I'm pretty sure the situation is similar. The browser is quite limited (no chrome) and with all kind of bugs and regressions, etc... Sorry, it's good to talk about stuff you know yourself because of trying and not just imagining.
Haiku has it's great parts, and I wrote some applications for it (e.g. the DocumentViewer), but in my opinion it should have abandoned the binary compatibility goals with BeOS and even abandoning the efforts towards OpenGL and instead just working on Vulkan. And I told the haiku community many years ago (like 4-5 years) to not neglect ARM, and today we are in the situation where ARM could really become even important for the laptops and not only for smartphones. Look how powerfull the Apple A11 bionic, it could be a substitute for i5 processors. I expect at least next year to see a macbook version using the A11.
Haiku missed the future and I don't see any chance of the core team to be motivated to start working seriously towards ARM and Vulkan. This seems to be the future, and Haiku seems to miss it.

Reply Score: 1

RE[3]: Haiku B1
by kallisti5 on Thu 19th Oct 2017 14:43 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Haiku B1"
kallisti5 Member since:
2009-09-08

You think wrong! No hardware accelerated graphics. Try youtube on haiku! I didn't try haiku the last few years, but I'm pretty sure the situation is similar. The browser is quite limited (no chrome) and with all kind of bugs and regressions, etc...


Incorrect. We use the Webkit rendering engine in WebPositive (which is what Chrome used before they forked it). WebPositive is pretty advanced for being an independent project with one guy working on it (the talented PulkoMandy). We have native html5 features like video rendering. You can watch Youtube or Vimeo html5 video and it works.

It isn't perfect, and pretty buggy at times, but it does work. (even without hardware acceleration)

Sorry, it's good to talk about stuff you know yourself because of trying and not just imagining.


You're literally making statements such as "I didn't try haiku the last few years, but I'm pretty sure the situation is similar." Maybe actually try Haiku before making these wild statements?

And I told the haiku community many years ago (like 4-5 years) to not neglect ARM, and today we are in the situation where ARM could really become even important for the laptops and not only for smartphones.


Instead of "telling the haiku community", maybe you should have helped make it a realization? Purchased ARM hardware, helped test, etc? We have an early ARM port, and development is ongoing. Human resources are limited, however.

Guys, this is Open Source. If you don't like something, help out to make it better.

Edited 2017-10-19 14:49 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE: Haiku B1
by The123king on Sun 15th Oct 2017 09:39 UTC in reply to "Haiku B1"
The123king Member since:
2009-05-28

Looks better than these flat interfaces. But then again i thin Win3.1 looks better than win10

Reply Score: 2

RE[2]: Haiku B1
by modmans2ndcoming on Sun 15th Oct 2017 22:20 UTC in reply to "RE: Haiku B1"
modmans2ndcoming Member since:
2005-11-09

bleh....

Reply Score: 3

RE: Haiku B1
by iscomputeron on Sun 15th Oct 2017 09:51 UTC in reply to "Haiku B1"
iscomputeron Member since:
2017-03-11

With voidtools' Everything you can get live file system query and incremental search on Windows+NTFS/ReFS. No extended attribute fields like BeFS, but still good enough.
As for the cartoonish look, I think if they dropped the gradients and went for a more flat look (like R5, but less saturated, keeping the vector icons) it'll look much more modern.
Looking forward to R1!

Reply Score: 3

RE[2]: Haiku B1
by x86_x64 on Mon 16th Oct 2017 09:35 UTC in reply to "RE: Haiku B1"
x86_x64 Member since:
2017-10-11

As for the cartoonish look, I think if they dropped the gradients and went for a more flat look (like R5, but less saturated, keeping the vector icons) it'll look much more modern.


Flat, bland and uninspired is not "modern". It's simply flat, bland and uninspired. Current look might be "cartoonish", but it's still way, way better and more functional than any of this "flat" crap that everyone is adopting now.

Reply Score: 3

RE[3]: Haiku B1
by The123king on Mon 16th Oct 2017 09:44 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Haiku B1"
The123king Member since:
2009-05-28

Remember the Luna theme?

How about Aqua?

And Aero?

They all look chintzy and tacky now. Somehow i think Haiku looks better than all of them.

Reply Score: 0

RE[4]: Haiku B1
by Kochise on Mon 16th Oct 2017 11:31 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Haiku B1"
Kochise Member since:
2006-03-03

I don't know how you feel about these 'old fashioned' designs, but at least they were efficient. You can spot buttons, title and scroll bars without messing them.

Reply Score: 3

RE[5]: Haiku B1
by x86_x64 on Mon 16th Oct 2017 13:58 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Haiku B1"
x86_x64 Member since:
2017-10-11

Exactly.

Reply Score: 2

RE[4]: Haiku B1
by x86_x64 on Mon 16th Oct 2017 13:56 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: Haiku B1"
x86_x64 Member since:
2017-10-11

Remember the Luna theme?
How about Aqua?
And Aero?
They all look chintzy and tacky now. Somehow i think Haiku looks better than all of them.

Yes, I remember all of them quite well. Even though they were really childish and overly shiny, all of them were much, much better than current all-flat Windows 10 crap.
For me personally, Haiku GUI strikes "a golden middle" between those two extremes.

Reply Score: 1

RE[2]: Haiku B1
by Risthel on Mon 16th Oct 2017 19:23 UTC in reply to "RE: Haiku B1"
Risthel Member since:
2010-12-22

Flat interfaces everywere...

Reply Score: 1

Comment by smashIt
by smashIt on Sun 15th Oct 2017 09:08 UTC
smashIt
Member since:
2005-07-06

Last month I donated 50€ to them.
If I see the release of R1 sometime in my lifetime it was money well spent ;)

Reply Score: 8

RE: Comment by smashIt
by The123king on Mon 16th Oct 2017 15:33 UTC in reply to "Comment by smashIt"
The123king Member since:
2009-05-28

I wouldn't bank on it

Reply Score: 1

Release?
by michaelvoliveira on Sun 15th Oct 2017 20:38 UTC
michaelvoliveira
Member since:
2006-03-22

If they did regular releases, had attracted more interested people, collaborators, and CODE.

But not. Never ready yet for beta.

About the interface, it is easy to upgrade to the modern styles ;)

Reply Score: 3

Does Heiku have an "App Store"?
by xristos on Mon 16th Oct 2017 17:29 UTC
xristos
Member since:
2014-04-25

If I write desktop apps for the OS, how would people go about discovering them?

Just curious.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Does Heiku have an "App Store"?
by tidux on Mon 16th Oct 2017 20:58 UTC in reply to "Does Heiku have an "App Store"?"
tidux Member since:
2011-08-13

Haiku has a package manager, complete with a GUI. There was Haikuware.com many years ago that distributed BeOS style zip files rather than a defined format package, but the admin/owner threw a tantrum about not liking package management and shut the site down. I suspect the real reason was he felt threatened by the package management infrastructure.

Reply Score: 2

Sauron Member since:
2005-08-02

There is a replacement for Haikuware.com and BeBits.
It's called BeBytes and mimicks the BeBits look somewhat, the BeOS and Haiku files are being added bit by bit by the users, I have added a few myself and will continue to do so as time allows.
It can be found at http://www.be.wildman-productions.org/

Reply Score: 3

zima Member since:
2005-07-06

Is there even a need for BeBytes with package management in place?

Reply Score: 2

JLF65 Member since:
2005-07-06

Package Management software isn't that useful unless there's a big, well-known package repository to get packages from. That's what he's looking for - a Haiku software repo that is big and well-known so that the most people possible see and try his software.

Reply Score: 2

xristos Member since:
2014-04-25

yep! that's exactly what I was looking for.

One main repo for everything with an easy way to discover apps by keywords.

Reply Score: 1