Linked by Niall C. Brady on Tue 25th Mar 2003 16:51 UTC
Red Hat I installed Red Hat Linux 9 (Shrike) to see what has changed between it and the previous major version of Red Hat (8.0). The article features some installation screenshots and of course some post-install screenshots showing Bluecurve in Gnome and KDE (more shots here), user experience and discussion of whether you should upgrade or not.
Order by: Score:
versions
by Anonymous on Tue 25th Mar 2003 17:09 UTC

The first thing you will note is that Red Hat has decided to move away from the x.x numbering of their products, now they've moved directly from Red Hat 8.0 to Red Hat Linux 9 ending the 7.1,7.2,7.3,8.0 releases of times past, sure there was a 8.1 beta called Phoebe but that was all it was, a beta.

Is this certain? In the past they just used major version increases when there was binary incompatibilities, and minor ones, if there wasn't. So it could be that they added some kernel/glibc/gcc patch, that made it binary incompatible with 8.0. Doesn't mean that there won't be 9.1,9.2,..

RE: versions
by Eugenia on Tue 25th Mar 2003 17:10 UTC

Yes, it is certain. Look our Red Hat vertical ad as well, coming directly from Red Hat and look at their web site too. Refer to our previous story about this:
http://www.osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=3110

first link
by Anonymous on Tue 25th Mar 2003 17:13 UTC

what's up with that first link

just as i thought
by teknishn on Tue 25th Mar 2003 17:17 UTC

Yep, just what I thougt they would release. And before I go on, yes I have tested this in beta. This is 8.0 with a little polish and package updates. Nothing really new or exciting, no innovation, still not giving KDE its proper respect, still no multimedia support outa the box, still no mozilla plugin support outa the box, no equivalent to Mandrakes control center or SuSEs YaST, no improvement on rpm and dependency hell. Someone please explain to me how this pos rates a 9.0 and not an 8.0+ or 8.1 tops.

I think its perfectly obvious that RH 9 is totally outclassed by Mandrake 9.1 and SuSE 8.2. And most definately by Gentoo 1.4 and Slackware 9 for the enthusiast crowd.

It is not *certain*.
by Anonymous on Tue 25th Mar 2003 17:17 UTC

It is not *certain*.

Yes, they have gone to version 9 this time, as you can see from their site and the banner ads, but this doesnt mean they have "moved away" from the x.x method of numbering their releases, as the original poster rightly explained.

RE: It is not *certain*.
by Eugenia on Tue 25th Mar 2003 17:18 UTC

No, when I said "certain" I meant for 9.0. Yes, it can or not be 9.1, we don't know. I was only talking about 9.0.

Do other distributions provide MP3 support?
by Anonymous on Tue 25th Mar 2003 17:19 UTC

Do other distributions provide MP3 support?

If so, why is it that only RedHat have removed it?

If it is illegal, and bound up in patent issues, how are other distributions still supporting it without getting into trouble?

--
Dreamweaver Templates
http://www.dynamicexpression.com/
--

RE: mp3 support
by pi on Tue 25th Mar 2003 17:25 UTC

I don't use mp3's much, but since my cd player died I've found myself wanting to encode my cd's so I can listen to them.

Is there any substantial reason why I'de want to encode my cd's to mp3 instead of ogg format?

Thanks!

Re: MP3 support
by teknishn on Tue 25th Mar 2003 17:25 UTC

I dont see how it can be illegal....otherwise we wouldnt see it in EVERY other distro, as well as Windows and OSX.

Show Desktop Button was available in Phoebe
by AnI on Tue 25th Mar 2003 17:25 UTC

Niall C. Brady,
"Show Desktop Button" was available in the latest Phoebe, under "Add to Panel"/"Utility"/"Show Desktop Button"

did they remove it or you have not noticed it ?

>Do other distributions provide MP3 support?

Mandrake does.

>If so, why is it that only RedHat have removed it?

Because they are the most well known ones, they are bigger in US, so they could get sued easier than a company in France for example. ;)

>If it is illegal, and bound up in patent issues, how are other distributions still supporting it without getting into trouble?

It is Red Hat simply choosing be more responsible about it. They are now a big company, so they can't mess around with potential threats for lawsuits. So they deal with it that way. Personally, I would like to see them licensing mp3 usage.

isos?
by skaeight on Tue 25th Mar 2003 17:30 UTC

I'm confused....what is he reviewing? Have isos been released, or does he have a prerelease?

RE: isos?
by Eugenia on Tue 25th Mar 2003 17:33 UTC

He has the ISOs before they get uploaded to the mirrors. He got early access to the final version (golden master) for days now. As I did with Mandrake Linux 9.1.

Where did he get the RHL 9 ?
by AnI on Tue 25th Mar 2003 17:33 UTC

I am also totally confused.
Niall, can you clarify how did you get hold of RHL 9 ?

re: Show Desktop Button was available in Phoebe
by anyweb on Tue 25th Mar 2003 17:35 UTC

yes i know that, but Phoebe was never released as a finished product, it was freely downloadble in all it's beta forms however.... I wrote this article to compare Red Hat 8.0 and Red Hat 9, not Phoebe (rh8.1).

I hope that clarifys things for you

cheers

niall/anyweb

re: isos?
by skaeight on Tue 25th Mar 2003 17:35 UTC

So when are iso's supposed to be released? Do we have to wait till april 6th or whatever it was when the box hits the store?

He's reviewing 9.0
by Jay on Tue 25th Mar 2003 17:36 UTC

Great review, Niall! Thank God they changed the menus from the Start button! And, Lord Have Mercy, support for i845!!! I've been so mad - all I've been able to install on i845 (besides Windows) is Xandros without sound. Finally!!

re: Show Desktop Button was available in Phoebe
by pi on Tue 25th Mar 2003 17:37 UTC

niall/anyweb,

I was under the impression that the phoebe releases (after some bugfixes) became the Redhat 9 release....

RE: Where did he get the RHL 9 ?
by Eugenia on Tue 25th Mar 2003 17:38 UTC

>Niall, can you clarify how did you get hold of RHL 9 ?

We can't always talk about our sources my friend. But why are you "confused"? This is a publication, and publications work TOGETHER with the companies to ensure copies for reviews. It is of no surprise, it always happens this way. ;-)

re: He's reviewing 9.0
by anyweb on Tue 25th Mar 2003 17:41 UTC

thanks Jay

by the way its Red Hat 9 not 9.0 ;-)

the point releases are gone now

cheers

niall

Shrike
by Asun on Tue 25th Mar 2003 17:41 UTC

I'm just curious what's the logical step for the name from Psyche to Shrike.
AFAIK, Shrike is the villain in sci-fi novel Hyperion series.

sweet
by Anonymous on Tue 25th Mar 2003 17:42 UTC

well, I've been using pheobe 3 for awhile now and it rocks. I can't wait for RH 9 to come out. add in apt with freshrpms.net, and it's a piece of cake to add anything you may need, including dvd support, mp3 stuff etc.

I have a question, though, for niall: what version of nautilus made it in? 2.2.1 or 2.2.2? Thanks.

makes me want to become a publisher
by M.T. on Tue 25th Mar 2003 17:42 UTC

That would sure make it easier to get copies than having to hit every download site trying to find an available connection. Oh well, guess I'll have to fight to find a good ftp site on the 7th of April ;)

v Sigh ...
by Anonymous on Tue 25th Mar 2003 17:43 UTC
v Re Sigh....
by teknishn on Tue 25th Mar 2003 17:51 UTC
v RE: Sigh ...
by Eugenia on Tue 25th Mar 2003 17:58 UTC
Not to criticize...
by skaeight on Tue 25th Mar 2003 18:00 UTC

but the author doesn't seem to understand that root and user accounts have different mozilla profiles. Installing plugins as root won't allow you to run these plugins as a user. This actually goes for everything. This isn't a bug in redhat or mozilla. I just think the reviewer should be a little more educated on how linux works before posting "problems" he has.

P.S. I wish they would have just installed moz 1.3 as default. Does anyone know if the 8.x rpms on mozilla.org will work with redhat 9? If not I hope moz will post new ones soon.

re: sweet
by anyweb on Tue 25th Mar 2003 18:01 UTC

the nautilus version is 2.2.1

cheers

niall

@skaeight
by nisse butt on Tue 25th Mar 2003 18:03 UTC

I bet he was trying to install the plugin for ALL users by doing it as root. It should be the way to handle it. If I have multiple users on a machine, everyone shouldnt have to install their version of the plugin. Better to do it once for all users.

re: Not to criticize...
by anyweb on Tue 25th Mar 2003 18:04 UTC

i do realise,

however, you cannot install the JVM as normal user you have to login as root,

correct me if i'm wrong

have a look here for more info in relation to why i log in as root to do it

http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=1890&page=7

scroll down to the plugins section

cheers

niall

v Re Sigh....
by Anonymous on Tue 25th Mar 2003 18:11 UTC
An idea for RH
by teknishn on Tue 25th Mar 2003 18:19 UTC

This is just a thought I had since most major linux distros are making a desktop push. RH should consider packaging their subscription or store bought version of 9 with mplayer, xine, xmms, and all the appropriate plugins and license the technology accordingly. Then release what we have here with no support for the free FTP servers. Seems like a good compromise to me.

Re sigh....
by teknishn on Tue 25th Mar 2003 18:20 UTC

Im sure this authors job is safe. Now that we've cleared that up perhaps we can get back to the OS discussion, which is what these posts are for. If you have a problem with the author, email him. Spare the rest of us. Hopefully these msgs will be moderated out as they should. :-)

Mandrake or Red Hat
by bhavin on Tue 25th Mar 2003 18:22 UTC

Which is better in your opinion Red Hat 9 or Mandrake 9.1?
Also, does Red Hat 9 have NTFS read support in this version?

v regarding Eugenia's defense of the author
by Anonymous on Tue 25th Mar 2003 18:26 UTC
v RE: regarding Eugenia's defense of the author
by Eugenia on Tue 25th Mar 2003 18:28 UTC
RandR?
by g.krist on Tue 25th Mar 2003 18:29 UTC

Does redhat is using the new RendR function in XFRee? And if so that does mean i can right-click screen and change resolution the fly? If thy did not add that, it would be DAMN stupid ;)

Available on RHN 3/31
by Rick Lobrecht on Tue 25th Mar 2003 18:32 UTC

ISOs will be available to RedHat Network customers on 3/31 and to the general public on 4/7. CDs will be available in stores on 4/7.

Links to freshrpms.net
by Matthias Saou on Tue 25th Mar 2003 18:44 UTC

Hi,

I just noticed the many links to freshrpms.net. Some of them are probably broken by now (I've released gxine 0.3.2 for example), which is the reason why the prefered way of linking is to http://freshrpms.net/rpm/packagename as explained on the website.
Also, for the latest Phoebe beta (rpm 4.2), I've made an apt package available, which is pre-configured to fetch the freshrpms.net 8.0 packages, so although it won't be able to automatically install dependencies from the main distribution, it'll still take care of all dependencies "inside" freshrpms.net packages. It can be found here on http://ftp.freshrpms.net/pub/freshrpms/redhat/testing/phoebe/ and probably works with Red Hat Linux 9.

Also, I still don't understand why so many people tell to go to my website for most of the packages, but to gurulabs for the xmms-mp3 one... freshrpms.net has got it too, and available through apt and yum! ;-)

Cheers,
Matthias

Why not just follow the directions?
by Bill on Tue 25th Mar 2003 18:58 UTC

Regardin the configuring of your network, why reboot when the directions told you to restart networking? it woudl have been much better for the review if you did that. That way it could be demonstrated that it worked as advertised, instead of perpetuating the broken reboot mentality.

Where are the crystal icons?
by Andreas on Tue 25th Mar 2003 19:09 UTC

Does RH offer the new crystal icons for KDE or you are stuck with the old ones as in the screenshot?

Thanks Matthias
by Anonymous on Tue 25th Mar 2003 19:10 UTC

If it weren't for your website, I would not use RH. Your apt repository makes RH as easy to maintain as Gentoo or Debian. Thanks a million! On a slightly off-topic note, could you built the dxr3 plugin with your xine package? Anyways, for any user of RH that isn't aware of freshrpms.net I suggest they take a look - it will make their life much easier.

re:Links to freshrpms.net
by anyweb on Tue 25th Mar 2003 19:11 UTC

hi Matthias

the xine links in my article to freshrpms.net worked as and from yesterday (or perhaps the day before), is there any chance you could 'leave' them there for the benefit of users wanting to install xine in Red Hat 9? much appreciated if you could. If not is there some way we can update this so people reading the article and wanting to update xine can be forwarded to a page with the packages as i describe linked correctly

i appreciate your help
cheers niall

Lack of point releases
by Man at Arms on Tue 25th Mar 2003 19:23 UTC

I think the reason for the move to no longer do point releases, is because almost all boxen are connected to broadband now and all you need to do is run apt-get (or Red Hat's up2date) to upgrade to the newest packages and bug fixes. Why would one download iso's again for that?

A few point
by None on Tue 25th Mar 2003 19:25 UTC

"It still doesn't have an Outlook mail type equivalent, which is a shame for Windows to Linux users, however Evolution is a very good email application."

Um Evolution IS and Outlook equivalent.

"Nothing with the quality of Paint Shop Pro or Adobe Photoshop but they are professional applications, GIMP is included and I used it to capture many of the screenshots."

Last time I checked Windows didn't come with PaintshopPro or Photoshop. What's your point? You can run those via Wine if you want.

"There are no apparent icons for network strength or for that matter connectivity on the taskbar (as you would see on a windows taskbar), so I'm left with using an x-term logged in as 'su' to check my internet connection status via command line tools like ifup eth1, ping host and ifconfig, and as simple as that is to some, it's not for everyone."

Right click the panel and add the wireless applet. Meh, do more research.

"CUPS is now the default printing software and looks relatively simple and actually strikingly like the Windows Print Manager equivalent, I don't have a working printer so I can't really comment on its' effectiveness."

Cups is FAR more advanced then windows print manager. Again do some research and find out why.

Linux isn't windows and never will be. If your looking for what your running now but simply on linux your barking up the wrong tree. Why even bother with linux at that point? Just stick with Windows. These reviews which say X linux product doesn't act EXACTLY like it does on Windows are retarded. Again I'll say it. LINUX ISN'T WINDOWS AND NEVER WILL BE. Once you stop trying to make linux into windows you might finally start enjoying yourself. Until then it will never live up to your biased and tainted views of what Windows, Um I mean Linux, should act like.

RE: Mandrake or Red Hat
by BeTo on Tue 25th Mar 2003 19:28 UTC

Neither Mandrake nor Red Hat.... IMHO SuSE is much better if we are talking about that kind of distro (easy to install, easy to use and versatile), because its much more debugged and worked.
I don't think Mandrake is a serious distro, and probably Red Hat yes, but not as SuSE.
Despite of that I prefer Debian, Gentoo & Slackware.

Early Review
by Andrew on Tue 25th Mar 2003 19:28 UTC

Anyone ever notice how Eugenia sometimes posts

"This new version of this program is available on this ftp. There isn't any news on any sites that this new version came out, but its there on the ftp, and we're reporting it as news."

I'm not trying to imply anything, but its odd.

the reviewer...
by brian on Tue 25th Mar 2003 19:38 UTC

is running into a lot of problems that can be fixed simply by installing apt-rpm (mp3 support, dvd support, etc.). Now the problem with the mozilla plugins probably has to with the fact that RedHat most likely compiled mozilla with gcc-3.2 ~ 3.4 with the 2.3~ glibc packaged with redhat. This has produced some rather annoying side effects with regards to plugins (you will notice that on mozilla's web site you will have to use the blackdown java jre to get java support because of a conflict with sun's jre and the glibc version mozilla is compiled against). The reviewer complains about power management support... blame microsoft for a poorly documented and poorly implemented standard called ACPI. Most new machines (esp. ones from dell) implement this hardware instead of traditional APM hardware. The latest kernel releases have updated modules for ACPI, however I have noticed some problems when it comes to reading your battery on most dells. For the most part, the reviewer comes off as relative newbie and thats not a bad thing considering we want more converts to linux and the n00bs need to be aware of these issues.

RE: Early Review
by Eugenia on Tue 25th Mar 2003 19:44 UTC

>I'm not trying to imply anything, but its odd.

I don't understand what you are trying to say. Red Hat is *fully aware* of this review (and the other one that we will be posting in a few days) and the reviews of the golden master were pre-agreed with them anyway. Same goes for the Mandrake review as well.

paint shop pro and gimp
by Anonymous on Tue 25th Mar 2003 19:52 UTC

"Nothing with the ease of use or functionality of Paint Shop Pro or Adobe Photoshop is included, but there are some applications. GIMP is included and I used it to capture many of the screenshots."

Hell, Gimp has more functionality that paint shop pro. And on a well configured linux machine, it is much easier to use. I even know people who think gimp for windows is better that paint shop pro, although it is not as good as the linux version there.

Package List
by John on Tue 25th Mar 2003 19:53 UTC

A short list of relevant packages and versions included would've been helpful (i.e., which Gnome, Apache and PHP versions are packaged with?)

This version will let you upgrade from an earlier distribution. Has anybody had any experiences with this process, particularly an "upgrade" installation from 8.0 to Phoebe?

MP3 support
by Roy on Tue 25th Mar 2003 19:54 UTC

While it would be much more convenient if RedHat included the MP3 and Xine stuff, I can't fault them for not including it. They are currently the most visible Linux company and the patent/royalty issues are definitely real. Other distributions may one day regret including these libraries. From a business perspective, it is probably the right decision (especially since RedHat cares more about the business desktop than the home desktop).

rpm -ivh !!!
by Anonymous on Tue 25th Mar 2003 19:55 UTC

It is advised to use -U instead of -i in general.

Resolution Switching?
by Rimmer on Tue 25th Mar 2003 19:59 UTC

I'm also wondering about the RandR features. Is there a control panel to adjust resolution on the fly?

Also is there an improved firewall configuration tool... the one in Redhat 8 wasn't good.

.
by Rich on Tue 25th Mar 2003 20:06 UTC

>> Is there a control panel to adjust resolution on the fly?

That will probably be in Gnome 2.4

For now you'll have to use the 'xrandr' cli tool.

Google searchs
by antiphon on Tue 25th Mar 2003 20:09 UTC

Searching the internet is far easier and more integrated with Konqueror. For Google searches, simply type gg:$BLAHBLAH. It's very flexible and has many presets. Plus, it remembers your previous search requests.

MP3 in Red Hat
by antiphon on Tue 25th Mar 2003 20:11 UTC

Really, there's no reason for Red Hat to not include the support. If pressured, they could (gasp!) buy the license for it. Really, calling yourself a desktop focused company and not having MP3 is quite ridiculous.

No MP3 for KDE
by Chris on Tue 25th Mar 2003 20:13 UTC

It looks like there is no simple way to retrofit MP3 capability for KDE. This means no audiocd:// capability nor playback through native KDE apps. We really need a reliable 3rd party source for KDE RPMs. I'm not arguing that they do not have legitimate reasons, but objectively speaking Red Hat's KDE RPMs are crippled.

If there is something I am missing, please let me know. I mean something other than "use Gnome".

(This is largely speculation)

1.) MP3's aren't there because of potential licensing/patent issues. This is not RedHat's fault, but the fault of Fraunhofer-Gesellschaft's licensing. Use Ogg. Besides being an open format, it sounds better at comparable file sizes.

2.) DVD support isn't there because without the DeCSS libraries, DVD decoding is a pain under Xine (you need to get real CSS keys) and distributing any DeCSS code will get them into hot water under the DMCA in the USA

3.) NVidia drivers aren't there because they're not free (freedom) drivers. Just like how there's not any of the Shockwave stuff. It's free (beer), not free (freedom). And, this is the way it should be, which is why I stay away from NVidia cards - they don't want to be nice to the community, I won't be nice to their pocketbooks.

Going trough it again ?
by George on Tue 25th Mar 2003 20:18 UTC

Of course, as a RedHat 8 user, I think about upgrading as well. I have gone through all the multimedia and fonts stuff and it works just fine now. So, if I use the upgrade function, will that changes be preserved or do I have to do all this again. Also, does it preserve my Wine installation ?

Additionally, what happens if I allready got Mozilla 1.3 rpm packages installed to be able to use latest Galeon (1.2.9) ?

Thanks for an answer

George

RE: Going trough it again ?
by pi on Tue 25th Mar 2003 20:20 UTC

George,

If you update now you'll have big problems with wine. I'm sure that will all get fixed in short order after 9 is released...

Re:No MP3 for KDE
by Anonymous on Tue 25th Mar 2003 20:21 UTC

Check out KDE for RedHat at Sourceforge. Their RPMS for KDE are quite nice in comparison. http://kde-redhat.sourceforge.net/

Thanks, Matthias
by Anonymous on Tue 25th Mar 2003 20:27 UTC

I would like to echo the comments of others. Thank you, Matthias for your freshrpms site. You indeed have made it very easy to update RH. Your work is *greatly* appreciated.

RedHat 9
by Rayiner Hashem on Tue 25th Mar 2003 20:28 UTC

As someone previously pointed out, RedHat 7.0 was also called "RedHat Linux 7." Apparently it has something to do with companies not liking products with a ".0" at the end...

Rrrrrr......
by Adam Scheinberg on Tue 25th Mar 2003 20:30 UTC

Why do people here think that

a) what's made available to OSNews is available the public

b) our versions of Red Hat 9 and Mandrake 9.1 are not official

c) they're entitled to software the second it is declared final (for free, of course)

Do you folks realize that every software company freezes their development for days, if not weeks or months, before release? They provide it to sites like this specifically FOR these early reviews to generate excitement. This is the final version of RH9 and Eugenia's review is the final version of Mdk9.1. Sheesh.

JRE
by Jeff on Tue 25th Mar 2003 20:31 UTC

I noticed the note about installing java plugins into the browser etc. I've had good sucess downloading the IBM JRE from the Advanced Server 2.1 SRPMS and building it against RH 8.0. Then add the rpm to your apt repository for even easier managment.

What is strange ..
by mariuz on Tue 25th Mar 2003 20:39 UTC

Is that Red Hat Update Applet is Red !!
http://img.osnews.com/img/3119/rh3.png
They even did'nt release it and got to do an update ;)

Laptop LCDs ARE detected!
by sardaukar siet on Tue 25th Mar 2003 21:21 UTC


Hi!

I have a Toshiba laptop (S1800-804) and the TFT is detected, along with sync rates.

Just to let you know...

WINE issues in newer kernels
by div_2n on Tue 25th Mar 2003 21:24 UTC

"Wine seems to have taken a nose dive"

If you check on www.winehq.com in their news section you will find the answer under issues 155 and 156. The new pthread implementation in the 2.5 kernel branch is to blame. Red Hat backported the changes.

Apparently WINE will be broken on many of the coming distributions. There are a few workarounds that work for some and not others but until the WINE development team resolves the problem, the WINE project is stuck not working out of the box so to speak.

Mozilla searches google too...
by mack bolan on Tue 25th Mar 2003 21:32 UTC

Mozilla seems easier. Just type whatever you want and press [Down] [Enter]

Try it yourself. Start mozilla and select:
Edit -> Preferences -> Navigator -> Internet search

Choose "google" as search engine. If you don't like the sidebar, uncheck it.


Voila!

Clarification
by Dennis Gilmore on Tue 25th Mar 2003 21:42 UTC

There was never a Red Hat 8.1 never. phoebe was 8.0.92-94 for the respective three beta releases. never 8.1 Why do people not understand that. MP3 support XMMS has the rights for free distribution of the mp3 codec but no one else does. sorenson the company that owns the mp3 patent changed the wording to the licenceing of it which made it possible that Red Hat, Mandrake, SuSe could be sued for patant fees for every single install of software with the MP3 plugin weather it was paid for or not. just beacuse they do sell some of them. Why the jump to 9 and not 8.1? there were changes to the kernel threads and glibc that has broken alot of things. wine currently will not work, as will a few other programs.

Mozilla and plugins. I think you will find that the Red Hat mozilla build is compiled with gcc 3.2 which has broken compatibility with certain plugins compiled with gcc 2.x series blackdown have a java build compiled under gcc 3.2 and sun are rumored to be releasing one soon by compiling with gcc 3.2 mozillia is faster i havent found any other plugins that wont work with by gcc 3.2 build of 1.3 but have heard that real player doesnt work. i have flash, acrobat, java all working.

The reasoning behind not supplying the NVidia drivers is and always has been that they are propietory in format if Red Hat did supply them they would be expected to provide support. how can they be expected to provide support for code they have never seen? they dont know how it will interact with the kernel. From my experience with NVidia drivers it wasnt great it was ok but not great. i would get hard lockups when my machine had been on for around 24 hours. very regular pretty much every morning my box was hard locked up. I now run ATI hardware I have open soucre 3d acceleration, and no lockups

Xine and mplayer are a very tricky legal minefield. the open souce decss ppackeges to decrypt dvds are in a very tricky legal situation. Red Hat is best to not include them to ensure they will be here toomoorow, should the movie studios decide to sue over it Red Hat would most likely fold . They are not a huge company, the biggest distro yes but not that big.

Comments
by Richard Plana on Tue 25th Mar 2003 21:50 UTC

1) So much for the user-visible changes. What about the nuts-and-bolts differences between RH8.0 and RH9? I understand 9 is now kernel-2.6 ready (ie. modutils updated). What about Native POSIX Thread Library (NPTL) support? What differences/enhancements does the RH9 kernel have that stock kernel-2.4.20 doesn't?

2) While I agree with RedHat's decision not to include MP3 support, I wish that they would: a) visibly push for the use of OGG in both encoding and decoding; and, b) have some kind of document detailing the process of adding MP3 support

3) Once people have installed RH9, I would recommend upgrading nautilus to 2.2.2 as it has some speed enhancements that are quite significant

rpm -ivh
by Jason on Tue 25th Mar 2003 21:52 UTC

Instead of all this:
rpm -ivh alsa-lib-0.9.2-fr1.i386.rpm
rpm -ivh aalib-1.4rc5-fr1.i386.rpm
rpm -ivh libfame-0.9.0-fr1.i386.rpm
rpm -ivh flac-1.1.0-fr1.i386.rpm
rpm -ivh xvidcore-0.9.0-fr3.i386.rpm
rpm -ivh xine-lib-1.0.0-fr0.beta8.2.i386.rpm
rpm -ivh xine-0.9.19-fr1.i386.rpm

Why not this:
rpm -Uvh *

I just think the first method makes it look more complicated than it is.

NPTL
by Dennis Gilmore on Tue 25th Mar 2003 21:57 UTC

Redhat have included NPTL in the kernel, and as far as i know many other patches.

Bluecurve now based on KDE?
by SQLBoy on Tue 25th Mar 2003 22:02 UTC

Those Bluecurve shots look like a modded KDE.

People give Red Hat a break!
by zm3ssiah on Tue 25th Mar 2003 22:13 UTC

First of all it is in the Human Nature to be unsatisfied or to complain about everything. Why do you people complain about Red Hat Linux? You don't like it? Don't use it. Personally I'm a Slackware user, I've tryed all the major distros out there and I've liked this the most. Besides Linux I use FreeBSD and BeOS (1.1 Dev. Edition). It's like those retards who complain about package management in slackware or that it is to hard to use. And for those who compare Linux with Windows: Stop comparing it and get a decent OS BOOK and start reading about the fundamental difrences in both of them. Finaly, it is a good thing that we have big commercial distros, they keep the balance in the software world. And something else:RH Linux is still freely avaible unlike other distros, like SuSE (only FTP install), so take it as it comes or don't use it. It's just stupid to comment and complain about it. Have you people tryed CRUX? If you did you'll notice that Slackware is bloated compared to CRUX LoL!. They will probably never bring a distro out on everybodies taste. And if you are a newbie and hate RedHat then try Mandrake. Finally everybody will notice that this distros are bloated and in some ways they waste your time more or less than Slack or Debian does. And finaly, Red Hat for instance slows down the learning process...
So as a conclussion: Why bother with Linux or Red Hat Linux when you dislike it and wan't something easy to use? All brand-name PC-s come whith that Windowze stuff preinstalled...use it!

Mandrake 9.1 is now official
by no1 on Tue 25th Mar 2003 22:14 UTC

>b) our versions of Red Hat 9 and Mandrake 9.1 are not official

Look at Mandrakes websites. It's official! :-)

RE: Mandrake 9.1 is now official
by Eugenia on Tue 25th Mar 2003 22:16 UTC

I suggest you re-read Adam's comment. You misunderstood what he was trying to say.

Mandrake 9.1 is now official
by no1 on Tue 25th Mar 2003 22:23 UTC

>I suggest you re-read Adam's comment. You misunderstood what he was trying to say.


Yes, you're right. Sorry for that :O

btw: Thanks for the nice reviews ;-)

There's a wireless link monitor
by Bastien Nocera on Tue 25th Mar 2003 22:31 UTC

In GNOME:
Add to panel -> Internet -> Wireless Link Monitor

No NVidia, No RedHat for me
by insdr on Tue 25th Mar 2003 22:40 UTC

Won't use it in my laptop. No NVidia Drivers and, no, I won't look for them in the internet. Windows XP can show my 1600x1200 without me having to install the video drivers from the CD that came with the computer when I got it. Graphics are slow without real nvidia drivers, it's true, but at least there are graphics.

Neal is apparently a complete moron
by Khaytsus on Tue 25th Mar 2003 22:45 UTC

Okay, some key points:

Photoshop IS NOT easy to use compared to Gimp. It takes 10x as much knowledge and work to do just about anything. That said, Photoshop IS more powerful, but for everyday image manipulation I use Gimp every time.

up2date DOES download NEW or UPDATED versions of RPMs, it does NOT *only* update security issues. Unless Red Hat has changed this, and I do not imagine that they have.

Your preferred *window manager* is "the default Gnome Bluecurve theme". Are you a total moron or did you just say your favorite WM is a theme?

Yes, I'll put a lot of faith in THIS braindead and useless review of Red Hat 9.0. Get a freaking clue.

SuSE 8.2
by Anonymous on Tue 25th Mar 2003 22:45 UTC

"World Exclusive: Mandrake Linux 9.1 Review", "Red Hat Linux 9 - World's First Look at Shrike". Nice, but for both the world knew how they will be from the betas. How about a "World's First Look at SuSE 8.2" before 3rd April? Is that possible?

RE: SuSE 8.2
by Eugenia on Tue 25th Mar 2003 22:48 UTC

>How about a "World's First Look at SuSE 8.2" before 3rd April? Is that possible?

I can ask SuSE. But my husband will hate me for spending one more intensive week away from him...

Could someone in the know...
by Jason Balicki on Tue 25th Mar 2003 22:59 UTC

tell me if it's got POSIX ACL support built in yet?

Tanks,

--J(K)

Re: No Nvidia, No RedHat for me
by Anonymous on Tue 25th Mar 2003 23:01 UTC

RedHat has generic Nvidia drivers. Like their generic Windows counterparts, these built-in drivers do not support hardware-accelerated OpenGL. But your laptop should work just fine with the generic 'nv' driver.

Grades and comparisons?
by Algol on Tue 25th Mar 2003 23:17 UTC

I was just wondering if any grades are available for ReadHat, to compare it to the ones that ended the Mandrake review.
And naturally im hoping for a Redhat/Suse/Mandrake comparison shortly, with a total comparison on all the keyelements of a linuxdistro. Anyone have time for that? ;)

Severely lacking review
by Hieronymus Coward on Tue 25th Mar 2003 23:23 UTC

No mention of behind-the-scenes technological improvements; merely slavering quips over optical chewing-gum. Author mistakenly states that the "Update" option is new. Poorly-written and packed with grammatical errors.

Most crucially, though: Red Hat is the distro big corps are looking at. It will be deployed on servers and workstations, so why use a mostly Linux-ignorant "writer" to review it? Leave him to retch up musings on Gentoo and Mandrake on his blog somewhere; OSNews deserves proper, professional articles.

Otherwise Eugenia, keep up the good work.

rpm management and redhat
by hmm on Tue 25th Mar 2003 23:50 UTC

rpm -Uhv *.rpm

will work through whatever dependancies exist between all rpms in your current directory.

rpm -e gcc.rpm kdelibs.rpm blah.rpm

This will remove all the rpms you append after the -e.

Now to install mplayer and xine grab all the rpms you want into a new folder, cd into that folder and run rpm -Uhv *.rpm. Then download all the dependencies it asks for into that folder and run the command again.

If you run into problems try --force for conflicts or --nodeps for dependencies.

Now about this release of RedHat. If RedHat wants to listen to their marketting department more than the sys admins support their stuff in the field. Then fine. I can go back to using slackware, debian and gentoo. And recommend Mandrake for anyone else. When RedHat wants my support they can go back to a logical and rational method of working with their community instead of treating us beta testers like outsiders.

Thanks, but no thanks.

What a pleasant surprise...
by Jay on Wed 26th Mar 2003 00:33 UTC

It's always so nice to see people at their very worst, acting as if they are all-knowing, calling each other names, quibbling over trivialities, bias against non-native speakers of English - oh what a wonderful world!

Why don't you people sit down, shut up and wait for the Red Hat 9 iso's. Until that happens, Naill is the only one who knows what he's talking about. And, by the way, his review was very well written and organized. One would think that people would be appreciative that someone would go to the trouble of giving us an insight into what we cannot see yet. But noooooooooooooo, what a foolish thought that would be :-)

Photoshop IS NOT easy to use compared to Gimp
by Anonymous on Wed 26th Mar 2003 00:35 UTC

>>>Photoshop IS NOT easy to use compared to Gimp. It takes 10x as much knowledge and work to do just about anything. That said, Photoshop IS more powerful, but for everyday image manipulation I use Gimp every time.

I'm in total agreement with you.

What kills me is the number of people not qualified to use photoshop (i'd go as far to say they are NOT qualified to even TALK about it), then those same people clammor about gimp not being a replacement.

whatever (tune them out like bad radio station)

General comments.
by David Hunter on Wed 26th Mar 2003 00:38 UTC

I see many complaints regarding this particular authors writing style, percieved lack of understanding of this particular product. How many of you could write a better review of the product and suchh in-depth review. If you say the author's job wasn't up to scratch, does anyone want to write up a review of RH9.0?

Interesting, but...
by K.M. on Wed 26th Mar 2003 00:42 UTC

I'm waiting until I can afford VirtualPC for my Windows machine. I don't mind running multiple OSes, provided I don't have to dual boot to do it. I've enjoyed VPC5 on my Mac and the demo of VPC for Windows is excellent as well. Of course, if and when that day comes, it'd probably be a good idea to max out my RAM so that I can run Windows and guest OSes all at once and still run everything smoothly!

But it's nice to see Redhat advancing, and I hope FreeBSD 5.x is worth it's salt because I'd like to run it under VPC on my PC too!

just my $0.02

Re: Bluecurve/KDE/Blah
by Mknepher on Wed 26th Mar 2003 00:55 UTC

Bluecurve is a collection of themes and artwork (freedesktop.org-compliant icon theme, GTK1/2 themes, KDE style/color scheme, kwin theme, metacity theme, etc.). It is not a desktop environment, it is not a window manager, it does not polish your car or bring about world peace. The name "Bluecurve" is a registered trademark of Red Hat, acquired in the purchase of some other company at some point in the past and repurposed to brand the lovely icons and widgets and other fiddly bits of artwork designed by Garrett LeSage. The artwork in the themes is GPL'd, and goes by the name of Wonderland when distributed by persons other than Red Hat.

KDE
by Grant on Wed 26th Mar 2003 01:24 UTC

KDE as usual in RedHat looks like a Gnome build gone wrong.

Good to see RedHat are doing what they do best. Crippling KDE.

Laptops?
by Stephen on Wed 26th Mar 2003 01:26 UTC

To answer your question about RedHat learning to recognize laptops, I recently had an issue with RH 8.0 on my Toshiba laptop. I had purchased the box and was entitled to support. When I contacted support, they said, "sorry, we don't support laptops."

There's your answer.

For my part, until they DO finally wise up and realize that many businesspeople use laptops heavily, I'll have to choose a different distribution (I'm using Mandrake at present).

RE: SuSE 8.2
by Grant on Wed 26th Mar 2003 01:28 UTC

> I can ask SuSE. But my husband will hate me for spending one more intensive week away from him...

What with this about you leaving OSNews Eugenia. Your posting more stuff than ever lately.?

RE: SuSE 8.2
by Eugenia on Wed 26th Mar 2003 01:36 UTC

I was backed off for months now only writing newsbits and not many big articles, I didn't do as much, exactly as I wrote back in december that I would do.

But this month (up to April 10th really) I am really needed here, as all these releases are happening at the same time (including OS/2 and QNX releases).

Tsk Tsk Tsk!
by Piete on Wed 26th Mar 2003 01:51 UTC
RE: Tsk Tsk Tsk!
by Eugenia on Wed 26th Mar 2003 01:56 UTC

It should be noted that Red Hat 9.0 does not pro-actively asks the user to create user accounts during installation, so it is pretty much the same way as Lindows does the installation.
So, Nial simply might not got around on creating the users yet when he was creating these screenshots.

How disappointing!
by Marcus on Wed 26th Mar 2003 02:07 UTC

The review was great, very detailed and in my mind, confirmed my suspicions that this release will be a huge disappointment. Is Redhat trying to start a new trend of going to full releases (8 - 9) without a very noticeable improvement? I cant think of any other software (much less an OS) that does this.

Im still scratching my head as to how they plan to seriously compete in the desktop market. Right now there are so many key pieces of the desktop puzzle missing, with no sign of being fixed (mp3, a good video player, easy (easier) networking etc. etc.). It seems that, after some through research on my part, everyone is jumping the gun on recommending Linux as a desktop replacement for Windows or OSX.

Id only recommend any version of Linux (RH9 included) to either a very casual computer user who only did email and web browsing or to someone who really wanted to get under the hood and spend a lot of time tinkering. Anyone in between (which is probably the great majority of computer users), I feel, will find Redhat 8 (and from the looks of it 9 also) disappointing and frustrating.

My opinions of Linux on the server side are quite the opposite.

RE: How disappointing!
by Eugenia on Wed 26th Mar 2003 02:10 UTC

>Im still scratching my head as to how they plan to seriously compete in the desktop market.

They are going after the corporate desktop, not the common desktop market. But yes, I agree with you overall, a lot of pieces are missing. And Red Hat knows that, trust me. But it ain't easy "fixing" the whole Linux-platform issue which consists of many-many pieces of software... It is a huge job...

re: How disappointing!
by Anonymous on Wed 26th Mar 2003 02:17 UTC

"Im still scratching my head as to how they plan to seriously compete in the desktop market."

No, no, no, no! I can't tell you how many times I've read this and statements like it, like those complaining that there is no mp3 support, or that "key pieces of the desktop puzzle" are missing.

Look, the premise of your statement, that RH wants to 'seriously compete in the desktop market' is WRONG! RH has said that it does NOT want to compete in the desktop market. They are not competing with Mandrake, SuSE, Lycoris, Xandros etc.

RH has said, time and time again, that they *only* thing they care about is the _corporate_ desktop (and servers of course). Corporate desktops don't need mp3 support. They don't need realplayer. They don't need nvidia drivers since the default open source "nv" driver works just fine in 2D.

Don't you see? RH couldn't care less if someone complains that flash isn't included. That's not their market! As far as RH is concerned there are no "key pieces" missing.

So, as far as their market is concerned, they are right on the money.

re: How disappointing!
by Marcus on Wed 26th Mar 2003 02:25 UTC

I stand corrected. Now that I go to their site, I see that there is no mention of Redhat being a solution for the home user, in fact, and this may be new as I don't remember it being so prevalent before, the word Enterprise is everywhere.

I think that part of the reason I (and others) come away with the notion that it IS intended for the desktop is because of reviews like this (and admittedly confusing the claims of other Linux distributions with those Redhat makes), which focus largely on its multimedia capabilities and typical desktop applications for the home user.

I am, however, still wondering how it is that they can justify going from 8-9 without more noticeable improvements. The only explanation I can come up with is that they are breaking the traditions of virtually all other software companies (theirs included) and starting a new trend.

re: How disappointing!
by Anonymous on Wed 26th Mar 2003 02:30 UTC

For reasons why the move from 8.0 to 9, read Mike Harris' post to the beta mailing list (most notably because of the NPTL kernel threading changes that break compatibility).

https://listman.redhat.com/pipermail/phoebe-list/2003-March/004919.h...

So, while on the surface 9 seems very similar to 8.0, under the hood there are *major* changes that do indeed substantiate the version change.

oops
by Anonymous on Wed 26th Mar 2003 02:33 UTC

Sorry, it wasn't Mike Harris, it was Matt Wilson. They both post to the list frequently, I forget who says what. ;)

6CDs and still not usable OOTB
by Anonymous on Wed 26th Mar 2003 03:15 UTC

When are distro makers going to wake up? The "enthusiast" crowd is maxed out, you won't get new Linux users catering to the tweakers.

You want Linux to be truly a viable option? Then I will tell you what needs doing *now* in all new distros;

* Dump SWAT and develop a decent networking environment tool for LANs that *will* use SMB. Yes it needs to be GUI. SAMBA is a tweaker's dream, but totally unusable by the average PC user.

* make an autoUNmount that WORKS for CDROMs. How bloody stupid that I can't unmount+eject by pressing the eject button - even windows 95 could do that!

* Dump RPMs. They are dependency hell! Installs of binaries should be like Mozilla and include everything you need in one file. Look at the overly complicated install of Xine in the article to see how stupid it is, and that was an easy one!

* And the biggie - how the hell can Redhat have 6 CDs and yet NOT have MP3 support, NOT have video support, NOT have NVIDIA support (clearly the most common chipsets in new PCs), NOT have Java, NOT have shockwave, NOT have common TTF fonts. What do they bloody have on them then?? 6CDs and they can't provide what 90% of *users* would consider critical software.

Less critical: fix the fonts for pete's sake! Even with truetype fonts installed they still look like crap compared to Windows.

The simple fact is Linux is not even close to mainstream at this stage, and those things that badly need work are not being done.

You can whine and moan about how *configurable* Linux is, but unless it's at least as functional OOTB then windows will not stick with it. And for every windows user who tries it and says "too hard" there will be 5 more who say, "oh well, I wont bother with it then either".

Note: I've used RH since V5 professionally, and it's frustrating to see that they are still focusing on areas that don't need desperately fixing, and ignoring the things that have been hopeless from day 1.

re: David Hunter
by dwilson on Wed 26th Mar 2003 03:24 UTC

I see many complaints regarding this particular authors writing style, percieved lack of understanding of this particular product. How many of you could write a better review of the product and suchh in-depth review.

I haven't read the review so no offense to the author here, however, this is the stupides argument I have ever heard. People are constantly throwing this ridiculous rubbish around every time somebody criticizes something. If I go to a movie and I gripe about the bad acting, directing, or cinemetography somebody is always sure to say "Could you do any better?"

Well you know what? I probably can't do better, but nobody is paying money to see movies I make. It is ridiculous - RE-DIC-U-LOUS to use that argument for anything. The only reason it ever even slightly applies is when you are getting something for free (like in this case). Even then, the point is some people write reviews, we would hope that these people would write good reviews. Some people write music, hopefully the music they release is good. However, you do not have to be BETTER at someone else's job than they are to be able to criticize.

RE: 6CDs and still not usable OOTB
by Eugenia on Wed 26th Mar 2003 03:27 UTC

>And the biggie - how the hell can Redhat have 6 CDs

It is 3 CDs. The rest 3 are just source rpms.

@Marcus
by Jay on Wed 26th Mar 2003 03:47 UTC

Marcus, I belong to the Red Hat Network and will be able to download iso's on the 31st. To me, the big thing about 9 is the tremendous amount of hardware 9 supports that 8 didn't. At any rate, I'm also anxious to see how they cleaned up the menus, which is such a confused mess in 8.

Menu Editing
by Anonymous on Wed 26th Mar 2003 04:03 UTC

Is the Gnome menu editing fixed/rational in 9? Specifically, the ability to add and remove groups and applications without hand modifying the vfolders and .desktop files?

Default NV driver
by Anonymous on Wed 26th Mar 2003 04:03 UTC

While the NV driver can successfully provide me with graphics on my GeForce 4 Go card, it fails to provide me with full resolution support. Setting my graphics to 1600x1200 yields, "Virtual height is too small". This is on a 15" TFT

RH9
by John Blink on Wed 26th Mar 2003 04:05 UTC

So Redhat9 is a better 8.0, gotcha!

What refinements did it have to BlueCurve? I can't seem to see any difference.

Also is it any faster to 8.0?

Also I propose that future OSNEWS reviews/article/whatever be a little more in depth.

For example compare Redhat with Mandrake, Lycoris, Xandros, Lindows on how certain tasks whether they be configuration or other things get done in each distro, and when this review gets done don't cover the initial install.

Also I believe BlueEyed OS will be a better linux than linux.

RE: Default NV driver
by Eugenia on Wed 26th Mar 2003 04:55 UTC

>"Virtual height is too small".

Not of a surprise that the nv driver craps out on GeForce4GO. The GO versions of GeForce were always pretty weird and the standard alternative drivers always had trouble detecting them and working right. The BeOS version of the driver also had similar weird problems with the 2GO, while all the other desktop support geforce worked fine.

I suggest you install the nvidia specific drivers for 2go. It is best to do it this way.

RE: RH9
by Eugenia on Wed 26th Mar 2003 04:58 UTC

> Also I propose that future OSNEWS reviews/article/whatever be a little more in depth. For example compare Redhat with Mandrake, Lycoris, Xandros, Lindows on how certain tasks whether they be configuration or other things get done in each distro, and when this review gets done don't cover the initial install.

No, what you really want is US to decide for YOU what distro to use. Sorry, but it doesn't work that way. We do review and have reviewed ALL these distros you mentioned. All you have to do is go to our archives and read our mulitple reviews for them, and then decide for yourself.

Resolution Switching Eugenia?
by Rimmer on Wed 26th Mar 2003 05:59 UTC

Neither the Redhat 9 or Mandrake 9.1 review mention resolution switching (one of the big features of XFree 4.3). Could you tell us how well this works (and if either distribution has a gui tool for changing resolution)?

RE: Resolution Switching Eugenia?
by Eugenia on Wed 26th Mar 2003 06:14 UTC

On Red Hat 9, I had to use the RH tool and then I would have to restart X and Gnome in order to change the resolution. I didn't try to change any resolutions on Mandrake 9.1.
However, all I can say is that I *didn't* see any RandR tools on neither Mandrake 9.1 or Red Hat 9.

RE: NO
by John Blink on Wed 26th Mar 2003 06:37 UTC

My Statement:
> Also I propose that future OSNEWS reviews/article/whatever be a little more in depth. For example compare Redhat with Mandrake, Lycoris, Xandros, Lindows on how certain tasks whether they be configuration or other things get done in each distro, and when this review gets done don't cover the initial install.

Eugenia's reply:
No, what you really want is US to decide for YOU what distro to use. Sorry, but it doesn't work that way. We do review and have reviewed ALL these distros you mentioned. All you have to do is go to our archives and read our mulitple reviews for them, and then decide for yourself.


So are you telling old "archived" reviews specifically discuss usability and configurability of current distributions method of usability (how things are done) and configurability.

OpenOffice.org
by Alex (The Original) on Wed 26th Mar 2003 07:00 UTC

The fonts used in Red Hat's version of OpenOffice.org in the menus are impressive.


http://anyweb.kicks-ass.net/linux/redhat%209/install%20kde....

Answers to questions (I'm running phoebe beta 3)
by pi on Wed 26th Mar 2003 07:20 UTC

1. Can you configure your resolution via a gui?

Redhat 9 does have a nice gui tool that allows you to change your resolution. It does require that you restart X though. (This doesn't mean that you can't change your monitor on the fly. Back in RH8 I played StarCraft in wine and it changed the resolution on the fly. ) I found their gui for this config. to work very well.

2. Is RH 9 faster than 8?
YES. RH 9 uses a new glibc and overall it seems to be a fair ammount faster.

3. What refinements did it have to BlueCurve?

I don't notice any. They did make the cursors look a lot better though.

Ogg Vorbis support ??
by Ben on Wed 26th Mar 2003 07:54 UTC

Does RedHat 9 support Ogg Vorbis ? Players, encoders, etc.
I'm kinda new to Linux and I don't want to throw away all my Ogg-files.
I don't really care about MP3. Ogg is the future ;) .

rpm management and redhat
by Marlow on Wed 26th Mar 2003 07:57 UTC

I've seen several people complain about using "rpm -Uvh *" instead of "rpm -ivh".

Get a point, people! It doesn't really matter, because in this case it's clear, that the packages aren't installed on the system yet. So why bother complaining ?

Re: pi
by Alex (The Original) on Wed 26th Mar 2003 08:05 UTC

2. Is RH 9 faster than 8?
YES. RH 9 uses a new glibc and overall it seems to be a fair ammount faster.


Yeah but also it's been improved in the nultitasking area in order to give you better multi threading then RedHat 8 or possibly better then any other Linux distro.

numlock
by torgeir on Wed 26th Mar 2003 09:04 UTC

have RH made it possible to have numlock turned on after boot without all the hasle we're facing today?

MP3 etc...
by Phil on Wed 26th Mar 2003 09:21 UTC

With regard to the mp3 playback issue.

I know that WindowsXP will play mp3's out of the box, but who actually uses windows media player to do this?

When I install XP, the first things I do are, after updating all the drivers, I download WinAmp, Winzip, and some form of image editing package.

Then you have to shell out for office, which if you buy Office XP imposes nice limitations such as not being able to extract some file from emails that have been sent to you.

Also, on top of this there are recurring costs of an up to date virus scanner, as well as having to watch out for dodgy spyware.

I think RedHat9 is a great deal. People should be looking at the plus side of this distro, as from install, the only thing that I might be updating by the sounds of it is Mozilla. Sure RandR with a single click would be nice, but how long will it be before a panel applet is available to do this?

As for laptop support, I am using RedHat8 on a Dell Inspiron8100 and the only issue I have is with suspend, but that is due to the Nvidia drivers I use. On that subject as well, if you use XP, and download the latest NVidia drivers, are you not effectively doing what you would in RedHat? I too would love to see NVidia open source the drivers completely, but I don't think that will happen soon.

So what I am trying to say is, be realistic, and don't expect the world from the latest version of whichever distribution you use, as these are incremental improvements, not overnight miracles.

Phil

XFree86 RandR
by Dubhthach on Wed 26th Mar 2003 09:22 UTC

I remember coming across a post there a while ago on the XFree dev list which basically said that RandR wasn't fully implemented in XFree4.3 as of let. The Rotation part is but the changing resoultion bit is supposedly still a bit experimental, however i could be wrong ;)

A few things
by Mike Hearn on Wed 26th Mar 2003 09:45 UTC

R&R: you can use xrandr to change resolutions on the fly, not sure if there'll be a GUI for it or not, it's still very new. If not now, then definately in the next version.

BlueCurve: I think you might find the GTK/KDE stock artwork is bluecurve themed now, at least it was in some early betas, dunno if it's in final.

NTFS: patent issues. They can't include NTFS without running the risk of being sued. Ditto for DVD. MP3s are interesting, basically no guarantees have been made that GPLd decoders are OK. It's sort of a turn a blind eye situation at the moment, it could change at any time.

Fonts: New TTF fonts are coming.

RPMS: yeah yeah, enough already.

Ooooh
by Mike Hearn on Wed 26th Mar 2003 09:50 UTC

A samba config tool? Yes please. Could we have a screenshot of that? A decent samba config tool is really needed!

Gnome version?
by Damjan on Wed 26th Mar 2003 11:42 UTC

Which gnome version is included in RedHat 9.0?
Is it 2.2 or 2.2.1? What about nautilus, is it 2.2.2?

samba
by Anonymous on Wed 26th Mar 2003 12:17 UTC

yes, there is a new samba gui tool, called redhat-config-sambam which is also currently available for 8.0:

http://rpmfind.net//linux/RPM/rawhide/1.0/i386/RedHat/RPMS/redhat-c...

RandR panel applet
by Daan on Wed 26th Mar 2003 14:30 UTC

There seems to be an experimental KDE applet for RandR in CVS, though not all applications will know about the new resolution. The result can be that windows are placed outside the screen etc. Maybe a better version will come with KDE 3.2?

RE: 6CDs and still not usable OOTB - fonts
by Joerlei on Wed 26th Mar 2003 14:35 UTC

Well, your fonts can look as nice as in Windows (better, in my opinion). The big problem is that freetype don't come with the byte code interpreter enabled by default (in 8 it comes). If you switch it on, your fonts will look very good. I have tested it on phoebe and it worked. I will write a tutorial about this as soon as I can (I am without time to do that for now).

Re: Default nv driver
by teknishn on Wed 26th Mar 2003 14:46 UTC

I highly recommend you grab nvidias drivers off their website. Secondly, in my experience when a desktop is sized wrong its because of improper vert and horiz sync rates in XF86Config. A buddy of mine just put Gentoo on his Dell and had the same issue. I told him to get the exact vert and horiz sync spec for his laptop lcd and put them in the config and that took care of his problem.

I just installed it and grabbed a screen shot and uploaded it to my webserver, running Red Hat Linux naturaly. :-)

Be nice to me..

I have two files, same screenshot - jpg and png fileformats

http://www.acme-tech.org/screenshots/samba-redhat8.png
and
http://www.acme-tech.org/screenshots/samba-redhat8.jpg

Look in that directory if you'd like, I have screenshots for other Unixen there. OSNews may use my Samba screenshots if they'd like.

Mandrake and xrandr
by AdamW on Wed 26th Mar 2003 15:10 UTC

No, Mandrake 9.1 doesn't have any kind of applet for instant resolution switching. Like in Red Hat, you have to use xrandr from the command line. I'm surprised people find this such a big deal, though, I don't remember the last time I changed my desktop resolution =)

Hello
by pros_n_cons on Wed 26th Mar 2003 15:16 UTC

This distro should have got a better rating IMO
My reason is the things you complained about were mostly just plain silly, "no show desktop button" when you _knew_ it was 3 clicks away or just a 3 finger key combo? Is it possible that Redhat doesn't want a cluttered taskbar like KDE so they let "users" add what they want?
Back in windows '95 nobody used IE we all went to grab a 16MB download of netscape, winamp, firewall, and probably another 5-10 must have tinker toys. Why is this the end of the world? Are people THAT f***ing lazy these days!?

The nvidia drivers is a valid argument, it gives you functionality out of the box (like windows) but not 3D. (who buys redhat for gaming anyway?)

I think the Linux community has a more serious problem, It's not software, It's not functionality, It's underdog syndrom. We bash everything and everyone who is successful. We purposly set out to cut down something successful and rebuild it into a peice of junk just so it can claim underdog status again making us feel like trail blazing geeks once again. If RedHat bought the rights to distrobute MP3/Nvida/DVD everyone would scream bloody murder that they do not supply 100% free software. I'm seriously starting to wonder if It's just cause It's an American company and not France (mandrake) or Germany (suse). These two guys have more problems with licensing than redhat ever had. Propriatary software, 3rd party drivers. Hell mandrake started off with all redhat code just included KDE, can you do that with either of those distro's today? NO, can you do that with redhat? YES, and there is, look at pink tie linux or any of the 100 books that come with it on CD.

Anyway, instead of Netscape, Winamp, and firewalls first thing I do on linux is get apt-get, opera and java, its NOT the end of the world I assure you.

ISO's for the public
by Jay on Wed 26th Mar 2003 15:24 UTC

I don't know if ths was mentiond already, but the Red Hat 9 iso's are supposed to be available to the public a week after it becomes available to Red Hat Network members (3/31). So, they should be available on April 7th.

Re: Mandrake and xrandr
by teknishn on Wed 26th Mar 2003 15:48 UTC

Agreed.....it still puzzles me to no end how fascinated people are by changing desktop resolutions on the fly. I set mine once in XF86Config, and it stays that way forever. I cant think any reason why I would need to or want to change at all let alone on the fly.

Review summary
by mechanix on Wed 26th Mar 2003 15:48 UTC

"RH 9 would be great if it weren't for the fact that it does not include software which has license[1], patent[2] or DMCA[3] issues."
Get a clue.

[1] MS TTF fonts, NVidia drivers, Flash & Java plugins. Hey, you forgot to mention acroread!
[2] MP3 player
[3] DVD player

v Spell checking
by Dan on Wed 26th Mar 2003 16:12 UTC
Re: Menu Editing
by Pato on Wed 26th Mar 2003 16:13 UTC

"Is the Gnome menu editing fixed/rational in 9? Specifically, the ability to add and remove groups and applications without hand modifying the vfolders and .desktop files?"

Here's a good link that explains how to do GUI menu editing in Red Hat:

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=48815&cid=4947174

To change some folders you'll need to su to root and then start nautilus to make the changes. Hope this helps.

re: Spell Checking
by marcus on Wed 26th Mar 2003 16:17 UTC

Yeah... um, that editors note was, I'm pretty sure, the author being facetious, not a 'real' editors note.

Broken link to xmms-mp3 rpm
by Jon Burgess on Wed 26th Mar 2003 16:35 UTC

The link to the xmms-mp3 rpm is broken, the extra " RPM" should be removed from the end, e.g.
http://www.gurulabs.com/files/xmms-mp3-1.2.7-13.p.i386.rpm

Memory Management
by dave on Wed 26th Mar 2003 16:42 UTC

A quick question i did not find covered in this article, how well is RedHat 9 for a high class server, im asking because I found that RedHat versions from about 7.0 on to be eating up alot of memory. Any comments to this?

PLEASE email me with comments not post here.

Dave

Re: Memory Management
by Bruce on Wed 26th Mar 2003 16:50 UTC

Dave, I find your question peculiar. Obviously, you don't understand the way Linux manages memory. First of all, Linux prefers that your swap be 2 x your physical memory. If you are unable to rearrange your disk to create another swap partition, you can always create a swap file. See 'man swapon' on how to do it. The other very important thing to remember is that in Linux, free memory is wasted memory! Let me say it again. Free memory is wasted memory! Do you understand? Linux puts free memory into a buffer pool for the purpose of accelerating I/O. When applications need memory for other purposes, Linux takes memory from the buffer pool and assigns it to the application that needs it. So, if you execute the "free" command at the command-line, the amount of free memory should be 0 or close to 0. Remember! Free memory is useless memory just like an idle CPU is wasted CPU. I hope that this helps.

DMA default?
by Doug on Wed 26th Mar 2003 17:43 UTC

Is DMA on by default (RH 9.0) for DVD's and CD's? It was off by default in 7.3 and 8.0....

Proprietary NVidia drivers vs Red Hat 9
by Joe Buck on Wed 26th Mar 2003 17:49 UTC

<p>
According to
s news.com story, at http://news.com.com/2100-1016-994074.html , Red Hat 9 is not compatible
with the closed-source Nvidia driver. People are saying
here, in comments, that people should download and build
the drivers from NVidia, but has anyone actually tried it?

The issue, evidently, is incompatibility with the new
threading scheme.

Thanks for the review and config tips
by Lee on Wed 26th Mar 2003 18:39 UTC

Appreciated you getting the review out so quickly and for bothering to include notes on how to customise/configure it for certain apps.

Sorry to see so much nitpicking.

Lee

re: Thanks for the review and config tips
by anyweb on Wed 26th Mar 2003 19:13 UTC

thanks Lee, nice to see someone appreciates the hard work ;)

cheers

niall

A desktop push w/o MP3 support...
by Shocked on Wed 26th Mar 2003 20:02 UTC

I really don't know is it ridiculous or pathetic for an operating system to try a desktop push in year 2003 without having MP3 support out-of-box. And me, Joe the Desktop Luser, don't care the slightest about any licensing issues, all I see is that EVERY other OS/distro has MP3 support, RH does not.

And if I'd care about licensing woes, I'd be dumbfounded to see that Debian knowingly contradicts the license in question. That's the real mystery here: does Debian (knowingly, they've sure read the RH8/MP3 stories) contradict the license or what the heck is up with RH if Debian & the rest aren't doing anything wrong?

MP3
by Maynard on Wed 26th Mar 2003 20:53 UTC

Please, Redhat is mainly trying to make an OS for business and they will be very visible if they do anything that might infringe patents. I think people should rather get together and release a very good Media player for Windows (to take out Windows Media Player) and have it producing .ogg files by default. The reason people still use mp3's is because they are lots of them. I see a more worrying trend of people encoding their music as wma now. We should be pushing for the adoption of .ogg as the multimedia format of choice. And that would sidestep these issues really neatly. Look at SCO now, they are now trying to bring infringement issues because they are going down. The same could happen with mp3. And Redhat could be an attractive victim.

The Shrike, from Hyperion
by RevAaron on Wed 26th Mar 2003 21:21 UTC

I was wondering the same thing- I've never heard of another object by that name, but I may just be clueless.

I've just started the fourth book in the Hyperion Cantos, the Rise of Endymion. Good stuff.

XMMS MP3 Plug-In
by gnumber9 on Wed 26th Mar 2003 21:42 UTC

The only reason XMMS plays an MP3 is because it has the mp3 codec plug-in loaded. So Red Hat didn't load it, big deal. Do yourself a favor and go to xmms.org and download the plug-in and add it by running the rpm. It takes no time at all.

I have to agree with other posters. ogg support needs to encouraged, especially in the embedded market. If I could buy a Pioneer car stereo with ogg support I would never make another mp3.

I see a lot of frustration in the user base about Red Hat defaults. Hey it's still Linux you can change it anyway you like. I for one do not like Bluecurve, I load the ximain-south theme with a Gorilla "window treatment" ;-) it's spiffy!

Have Fun!

What a reporter you are
by Mohamed Eldesoky on Thu 27th Mar 2003 10:02 UTC

It is not a good article IMHO.
A M$2k user, who blames RedHat for not having a powerful graphics applications as adobe photo shop, or paint shop pro.
Oh man, Linux is not your system.
I advice you to upgrade to windows XP, good deal for you

@pros_n_cons
by aRTee on Thu 27th Mar 2003 10:55 UTC

"If RedHat bought the rights to distrobute MP3/Nvida/ DVD everyone would scream bloody murder that they do not supply 100% free software. I'm seriously starting to wonder if It's just cause It's an American company and not France (mandrake) or Germany (suse). These two guys have more problems with licensing than redhat ever had. Propriatary software, 3rd party drivers. Hell mandrake started off with all redhat code just included KDE, can you do that with either of those distro's today? NO, can you do that with redhat? YES, and there is, look at pink tie linux or any of the 100 books that come with it on CD."

FYI Maybe SuSE isn't but Mandrake download edition is 100% free (they even make a point time and again to stress that, and still some people don't get it), and yes, you could take all their code and make a new distro. And they have always targeted the desktop (home or corporate), contrary to RH.
And they do, in their free download edition, include all necessary stuff to listen to mp3's but there I agree that RH being more financially successful of late and a US company it may just realise it's so much higher on radarscreens of IP/patent owners.
Of course, also Mandrake cannot include dvd playback since the DMCA doesn't allow that.

OGG - not.
by Solar on Thu 27th Mar 2003 13:42 UTC

> The reason people still use mp3's is because they
> are lots of them.

Formats are always a chicken-and-egg problem, and *that* race is over. Aside from the desktop, Joe Average Geek has a PDA, a diskman, a car hifi, a DVD player in the living room and another hifi in his study.

Each of those gadgets play MP3. Some play WMA. And now you say "scrap MP3, we'll go Ogg, because it's FREE!". Yea, sure.

*tsk* *tsk* *tsk*... ;)

i'm scepticle
by -=:Max:=- on Thu 27th Mar 2003 15:04 UTC

i must say that i have always been a redhat supporter ever since i got into linux , it is my favorite distro ... but i will stick my personal favorite (7.3 Valhalla) mainly because i like the classic look of gnome 1.4(default) and because it comes with all the plug-in's and mp3 support that was removed in the 8.0 version .... so until RH drops sumthin i am really impressed with , i won't be doin any upgrading

RH 8/9 user accounts, name progression
by Mknepher on Thu 27th Mar 2003 17:00 UTC

Phoebe and shrike are birds.

Red Hat has moved user account setup from the main installer to its "First Boot" app which is supposed to run, you guessed it, on first boot. If it didn't run, it was a bug. If it did and the reviewer didn't set up an account, it's operator error.


(quote from an e-mail i've sent to the author)

Regarding xine - i wish you mentioned that Gxine also adds a Mozilla plugin, so that you can play nifty media stuff in Mozilla. :-)
Of course, if you install the Real, Quicktime and Windows Media DLLs, xine (or rather the Mozilla plugin) becomes able to play that stuff too in the browser. This way, there's no difference anymore between Win/Mac browsers and Linux browsers. But installing those DLLs is in a "legally
murky" territory.

Re: The Shrike, from Hyperion
by Anonymous on Thu 27th Mar 2003 23:34 UTC

"I was wondering the same thing- I've never heard of another object by that name, but I may just be clueless."

Yes, you're just clueless. Learn to use an online dictionary or search engine, fer goshsakes.

I see Mknepher just barely beat me to the punch in pointing out that the shrike is a bird. See http://www.exzooberance.com/virtual%20zoo/they%20fly/shrike... for instance.

play CSS DVDs
by Florin Andrei on Thu 27th Mar 2003 23:35 UTC


(quote from an e-mail i've sent to the author)

And of course there's the issue of the CSS-protected DVDs - you can't play them with xine unless you install libdvdcss. I'm pretty sure it's illegal to provide a URL to libdvdcss in an article, but again i'm pretty sure it's legal to just mention the library.

AMD Duron 800MHz
by Bob on Fri 28th Mar 2003 19:36 UTC

Do I still need the "noathlon" switch to get it to boot?

MP3 support: contd...
by Michael Chang on Sat 29th Mar 2003 02:25 UTC

> I dont see how it can be illegal....otherwise we wouldnt see it in
> EVERY other distro, as well as Windows and OSX

It's not illegal as long as you pay license fees. RedHat does not yet have the revenue or capital or what-have-you to be able to pay the licensing fees, nor does it have a large-enough user base who is either (a.) clamouring for out-of-the-box MP3 support, or (b.) unable, due to lack of technical skill, to acquire and install the software necessary for playing MP3 files. There is kind-of a chicken-and-egg problem here --- most who are not tech savvy will probably never switch to using [the current breed of] GNU/Linux distributions; as such, requisite 'b' (see above) and, in part, requisite 'a', will probably never gain enough critical mass.
What RedHat needs is, oh, a good 40+ billion dollars in capital (renewed each year, of course), plus an extra several thousand employees.

Desktop Icon???
by Sid James on Sat 29th Mar 2003 03:39 UTC

You already have FOUR desktop icons in your screen dumps. You don't need an ms style "show desktop". Just click one of the others! You know, the icons with 1, 2, 3 and 4 in them in the panel at the bottom of the screen.

re: No NVidia, No RedHat for me
by Sid James on Sat 29th Mar 2003 03:54 UTC

Unless you're talking about 3D apps, I run RH8 at 1600x1200 nvidia chipset just fine with the vesa driver. X actually "feels" snappier than win2k on this particular machine.

reiserfs support?
by THC on Sat 29th Mar 2003 12:48 UTC

I wonder if they included reiserfs at installation?

Thank you
by Jonas Bolldn on Sat 29th Mar 2003 14:33 UTC

I just wanted to say thank you for a very interesting article. I use RH 7.3 at the moment, and have used RH since 5.0. I've tried other dists but I'm one of those RH-geeks (it fills my needs in computing). However I didn't upgrade to 8.0 since a friend told me that it looked and worked pretty bad, however we've (my friend and I) installed it at work using it for cvs-repsoitory, http, ftp, nfs and "Novell-mounter" (ncpfs) and that works just fine. But I do agree with you regarding the menu in 8.0, not very logical.

Yet again, thank you, now I know that I will upgrade to 9.0 as soon as it's freely aviable (yet another weeks waiting) =).

//Jonas

Corporate desktops do need Real Player, Flash, and Acrobat
by Anonymous on Sun 30th Mar 2003 01:43 UTC

> They don't need realplayer.

Yes, (some) corporate desktops do need Real Player.
A lot of audio video gets saved in that format.

Too many websites (sadly) won't work at all without
Flash these days.

And what about Adobe Acrobat? I suppose corporate
desktops don't need that either.

Sounds like Windows
by Diego on Sun 30th Mar 2003 10:21 UTC

I love it when Linux reviews begin to look like their Windows counterpart. For instance, when the reviewer writes "...just upgrade to the latest version...." I get such a warm cosy feeling from this.

Wasn't Linux suppose to do it right? I guess not, since if you want to make money on the thing, and support is one of the only ways, the other being writing big Linux books with lots of pictures. Sorry for the rant.

which kde does it include? 3.1/3.1.1?
by nachiketa sahoo on Mon 31st Mar 2003 21:09 UTC

few days back I upgraded my kde packages to 3.1.1 form 3.0 but, rpm db got all messed up. can some one tell me if rh9 has kde3.1 or 3.1.1,

and have they fixed their rpm package? my up2date is nolonger working after I installed kde 3.1.1.

thanks

Numbering is certain
by jeremy_hogan on Tue 1st Apr 2003 05:50 UTC

No more .x releases in this line. Also, the article mentions a "Show Desktop" button. Right click on the panel, Add to Panel > Utility > Show Desktop Button.

--jeremy

Why
by Rob on Tue 1st Apr 2003 09:34 UTC

Why it so quick. I think RH8.0 out on Dec 2002 now just Apr oh !. Anyway, I want to use it and somebody know, is it will avilable for FREE DOWNLOAD ? !!!

a
by leo on Wed 2nd Apr 2003 04:42 UTC

Linux9@byr2/Openware/ISO/linux/RedHat/9.0/



downlo;ad it

KDE missing sound files on RH 9
by Raxet on Wed 2nd Apr 2003 17:59 UTC

I can't locate sounds at all in the typical /home/username/.kde/usr/share/sounds nor /usr/share/sounds

Anyone know why, and how and where to install them?

Other than this I'm very happy with 9

Xine Problem
by Morgan Pugh on Wed 2nd Apr 2003 22:33 UTC

I installed everything as you said (I had to install xine-lib-1.0.0-fr0.beta9.1.i386.rpm (this also required glut-3.7.8.i386.rpm) and xine-0.9.20-fr1.i386.rpm as the links in the review didn't work anymore).

However I get an error with Xine about not having a emuxer pluin available to handle the file, and that normally means teh format was not recognized.

What can i do?

Word and Openoffice
by Mark on Fri 4th Apr 2003 12:55 UTC

"My only gripe with OpenOffice is it has an annoying delay while loading up a module even on a very fast and current computer. Opening Microsoft Word in Windows XP on the same system is instantaneous compared to OpenOffice Writer. I guess some more work needs to be done in that department as this was the same in Red Hat 8.0, so hopefully in time this can improve."

One reason for this is because on Linux, OO is kept as a separate entity. On Windows they put a 'Microsoft Office' shortcut in your 'Startup' folder - check in your Start Menu!
So basically part of the (loooooooong) Windows startup time is it loading programs like this that then make software like Office APPEAR to load faster when you're using the system.

On my Windows system for example, without the Office shortcut running on startup, Word takes 3 seconds to load. OO Writer on Windows takes 4 seconds to load. Not such a big difference...

Cheers,
Mark.