Linked by Eugenia Loli on Sat 24th May 2003 04:50 UTC
Morphos MorphZone posted a screenshot of the upcoming MorphOS 1.4, revealing an updated MUI look and feel. OSNews featured a review of the Pegasos platform just a few days ago. Update: In other Amiga-related news, Fleecy's 11th week of Q&As is online.
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Wow.
by Greg on Sat 24th May 2003 04:59 UTC

That looks incredible. Much, much better than the ugly stuff they had before. Also, the icons look SVG, just beautiful.

Hopefully they fix the stuff the review pointed out.

improvement
by Brad on Sat 24th May 2003 05:28 UTC

looking better, still looks very flat and blocky, very old school unix looking. Also looks like color insperation from Windows Longhorn screenshots. But hey keap the work up.

Still waiting for some alt OS to have a look that knocks me out of my seat. Some of the gnome screenshots are about as close as it gets ;)

ooh, pretty
by johnG on Sat 24th May 2003 05:35 UTC

Wow, the Verdana looks just like it did with X and FreeType on RH9. Cool. ;)

Love the subtle gradients. The whole thing is just gorgeous.

Beautiful background too. Anyone know where I can get it?

re. improvement
by johnG on Sat 24th May 2003 05:42 UTC

> looking better, still looks very flat and blocky,

Well, yeah, I suppose the scrollbars (er, and radio buttons and popup-menu buttons) could use some work. Hmm... why are the popup-menu buttons in the "Control" and "Fonts" areas different? I like the ones in the "Control" area.

re: oh pretty
by Brad on Sat 24th May 2003 05:44 UTC

"Beautiful background too. Anyone know where I can get it? "

Eh, I would say if you have a digital camera go out side and create the same. Thats what I have been doing, just find nice shots like that, Simple is better. And you got a background your freinds want.

But yeah, that background caught my eye to, much better then what they had in previous ones.

eh?
by dysprosia on Sat 24th May 2003 05:51 UTC

7! window controls! 7!!
Can't be good...

the look
by smoke on Sat 24th May 2003 06:13 UTC

Actually the titlebars look more like Whistler (watercolor) than they do longhorn. I think the button on the left looks a bit out of place and the buttons on the right look too tiny. I think they should blend the button into the left if they insist on keeping it and either make the titlebar smaller or the titlebar buttons bigger.

The scrollbars could use some work too. But they are the typical enhanced amiga workbench scrollbars.

Also those icons could just as easily be png or other 32-bit bitmap icon file. I'm glad however to see 32-bit bitmaps as the icons.

However I like how many options it has for the UI though from my experience with AmigAOS I know it kinda makes things hard to configure a bit especially if you have more than one appearence manager installed like I used to have because one could ovveride the other.

Well done Mr. Stuntz
by Mike Bouma on Sat 24th May 2003 07:08 UTC

Great to see good progress is being made. ;)

Put up or shut up
by Jim Steichen, Author of AmigaTalk on Sat 24th May 2003 07:19 UTC

Egad, all you critics should try designing your own GUI if you think it's so easy!
The fonts are different in the Control & Fonts sections because Gadgets in the Intuition part of the AmigaOS
allow you to do so! You want flexibility or Microsoft telling you what you should get?
Flat & blocky huh? Did you ever see how menus were rendered in BattleChess? They had little cherubs
with fluttering wings unrolling a scroll containing the menu items. Many incredible things are possible to create with the AmigaOS as far as a GUI is concerned - however I've seen some bad GUIs on the Amiga as well.
These were usually attempts to emulate Windows or some other OS & not sticking to the published
User Interface Style Guide published by Commodore (& Addison-Wesley). Where is the Style guidelines for Windows, the Mac, or Linux? I'll bet they don't exist. One only has to go to the Interface
Hall of Shame & see that there are virtually NO examples of bad GUI design in the AmigaOS. If anyone were
to use the AmigaOS for a week, they would understand why the GUI rendering library was called Intuition!
Jim Steichen, author of AmigaTalk (a port of Little Smalltalk)

v CommunistOS
by Todu on Sat 24th May 2003 07:27 UTC
RE: Put up or shut up
by Greg on Sat 24th May 2003 07:54 UTC

You seem awfully authoritarian and self-righteous for someone who professes a liking for choice. Classic zealot.

Many incredible things have been done with Windows, and Linux, and MacOS. BeOS--look at that ZSnake.

>Where is the Style guidelines for Windows, the Mac, or Linux? I'll bet they don't exist.

Umm, developers for Windows and Mac are required to follow certain Human Interface Guidelines. AmigaOS did not invent them. I believe they've been around since Xerox PARC. Linux is moving in that direction too, thanks to Havoc Pennington.

>One only has to go to the Interface
Hall of Shame & see that there are virtually NO examples of bad GUI design in the AmigaOS.

From what I've seen of the AmigaOS, it looks like total crap. NeXTStep was far superior. I know it was advanced for its time, but it's not the Holy Grail of interfaces. Sheesh. "bad" is subjective by definition.

Amiga Q&A
by Chris D.Emery on Sat 24th May 2003 08:32 UTC

I have been reading Moss's weekly interviews since they started and I am getting a very definite feeling that I do not trust the guy

So many vague promises " yes it'll be better but we can't say when it'll be released " - claims to be sure of commercial support re software but can't name names - says yes the Mac is a logical PPC platform to code for but can't say when we will......

He never answers a question straight - all his answers seem tailored to be rebuffable later in a vaguely Orwellian sense

I'm not commenting on his character or his company: I know nothing of either. Just that his style is not conducive to winning my trust.

It looks really nice
by rajan r on Sat 24th May 2003 09:03 UTC

Sure, I would almost definately change the colours, the icons and try as bad as I can to remove as much window controls as I can if I ever use it, but frankly, this is the best looking Amiga (original, rewritten or clone) I have seen. The icons don't look all that bad, except that it lacks contrast with the rest of the desktop.

The icons are a huge set back
by Gaute Lindkvist on Sat 24th May 2003 09:16 UTC

The old icons looked great, and while photorealistic they retained a sense of visual clarity waaaay better than these.

Do NOT under any circumstances create a default icon set where all icons have the same color.

There are several things that contribute to clarity, some of which are:
1. Symbolism
2. Shape
3. Colors

Now, I do think this is just some sort of theme. The new icons are clearly ripped from somewhere.

Importance
by Don Cox on Sat 24th May 2003 10:04 UTC

"Still waiting for some alt OS to have a look that knocks me out of my seat. Some of the gnome screenshots are about as close as it gets ;) "

While it is quite nice to have a pleasant looking Desktop/Finder/Workbench display, and might help sales in a shop, I wonder why people rate it so highly?

I doubt if I spend more than 1% of my computer time looking at the Workbench screen. Almost all the time I am using one program or other, on its own screen, and fortunately each program looks different, according to its functions.

In answer to other comments, the extra window buttons in MUI are optional and at least in the current version of MUI are off by default. One very useful one is the "snapshot" button. If you click on that, the window will come up with the same size and position nect time you open it.

MUI is a good system.

v CommunistOS
by Todu on Sat 24th May 2003 11:37 UTC
Good job, Stuntzi!
by Iggy Drougge on Sat 24th May 2003 11:58 UTC

Cor blimey, they've done just what they promised. That's not common in the computing world, AFAIK. This is what MUI should have been from the get-go.

v RE: CommunistOS
by David Scheibler on Sat 24th May 2003 12:12 UTC
Looks much better than previous shots
by Anonymous on Sat 24th May 2003 12:18 UTC

I say nice work to the team that did the work on this.

A major improvement.

It doesn't scream out 'Dump your heavily tweaked and honed Linux/WindowMaker desktop right now' at me, but for Amiga users, this muct be very, very welcome.

v re: CommunistOS
by bas on Sat 24th May 2003 12:48 UTC
error!
by bas on Sat 24th May 2003 12:51 UTC


"is being developed in a country"
should have been is also being developed in a country..

Sorry.

My point is if you are so rejected by Communisme, or at least an icon of it, why use Windows, Linux BSD etc..?

re: Greg ....
by petr krenzelok on Sat 24th May 2003 13:02 UTC

I just wonder, if you actually ever used AmigaOS. Or are you just Linux dieahard or so? Because if so, you should remember that even before Linux started, Amiga was in the age of its glory. The point is, I have seen bad designs, and very nice ones - in my experience, AOS could become nearly everything. The screenshot shown is not so special imo, and there is no problem to replace look of scroll-bars or any other gadgets.

As someone mentioned already - Amiga was multimedia, period. It is not only about OS, but also set-up-box like end user apps. If you like PS2 or modern PC games navigations/menus etc., just go get yourself nearly 20 years old A500 and look at some titles, before you say something about Amiga's inability to provide attractive interfaces. Because, if you haven't seen e.g. Scala Multimedia, you haven't seen smooth media done easily.

So the question is, if Amiga lacks UI guidelines, or it simply provides user with freedom of expression, which may be way too much for some persons to grasp ...

-pekr-

v re: CommunistOS
by David Scheibler on Sat 24th May 2003 13:17 UTC
re: David Scheibler
by bas on Sat 24th May 2003 13:23 UTC

Indeed i was wrong..i thought the main developers of MorphOS
would come out of the USA.
I was trying to point out that f.i
Windows, Linux BSD, Solaris ,MorphOS etc. are also
being developed in the USA, so if he is really that
"tight" i think he can better live in a cave and eat
leaves all day..i understand and support his point but its just not possible to live like that in this f*cked up world.

re: Greg ....
by Greg on Sat 24th May 2003 13:35 UTC

No, I actually haven't used it;I believe I admitted that in another article. I have seen screenshots, though, even off the AmigaOS4 site, and they don't look too good. The person I was replying to was obnoxiously claiming Amiga was the only OS with interface guidelines, and that it's perfect in every way. Yeah right.

I'm not a Linux diehard. I like BeOS a whole lot, and I said in my post that Mac and Windows also innovated, not just the Amiga.

Sorry if I offend.

Guidelines
by Don Cox on Sat 24th May 2003 14:09 UTC

Both Amiga and Mac have style guidelines books. The Mac one is much fatter, and can be downloaded from the web site.

Amazon are offering the Amiga one "used and new" from $10. To be honest, it is of OS 2 vintage, but much of it still applies.

There is much to be learned from the book "About Face" too.

You can't judge an OS from screen shots. You need to use it for a few months to see how it works.

Looks like longhorn... C'est bleu. Très bleu.
by Ronald on Sat 24th May 2003 14:09 UTC

IMO OS/2 Warp 4 is prettier than this. And OS/2 is butt ugly out of the box. I wish they'd let go the the 14 inch monitor widgets. It makes the UI look old and outdated. Increase the font size too.

Also note, I see they got the Microsoft symbol as their temp folder! ;)

Font size
by Don Cox on Sat 24th May 2003 14:17 UTC

"Increase the font size too."

This is purely a user setting. One would set it according to monitor size and quality (some users will have to work with small low res monitors) and user's eyesight.

It is impossible to find one default that suits all. Likewise, some people like anti-aliasing, while others find that it just looks blurry.

In any case, you can set different font sizes (and fonts) for each program. A program with a lot of long menus may be best with a smaller font than another which has just a few short menus.

Are we looking at the same screenshot? In the one I've been looking at, the font size is an enormous 12 points, and the gadgets are just as huge. They've really blown up the GUI this time, as opposed to older versions.

v Re: re: CommunistOS
by rajan r on Sat 24th May 2003 14:24 UTC
Well...
by n0id on Sat 24th May 2003 14:42 UTC

I'd actually have to agree with the people who don't like the icon for the temp directory. Pretty bad choice, at least if one's gonna take a screenshot for the public. Anyway, may not be a huge thing to argue about but what if that was a swastika instead? ;)

Apart for that I really like what I see. Great work!

v Re:CommunistOS
by David Scheibler on Sat 24th May 2003 14:47 UTC
v Re:CommunistOS
by Mike Bouma on Sat 24th May 2003 15:05 UTC
Joke
by Don Cox on Sat 24th May 2003 15:16 UTC

"I'd actually have to agree with the people who don't like the icon for the temp directory. Pretty bad choice, at least if one's gonna take a screenshot for the public. Anyway, may not be a huge thing to argue about but what if that was a swastika instead? ;) "

It is a visual joke. Temp=Soviet Union

Do you really not get it? It made me smile the moment I saw it.

Wit is an essential component of graphic design - in fact, the biggest component.

@Don Cox
This is purely a user setting. One would set it according to monitor size and quality (some users will have to work with small low res monitors) and user's eyesight.

It is impossible to find one default that suits all. Likewise, some people like anti-aliasing, while others find that it just looks blurry.

In any case, you can set different font sizes (and fonts) for each program. A program with a lot of long menus may be best with a smaller font than another which has just a few short menus.


I agree that it should be set it according to monitor size and quality. But the default targeted resolution should be minimum 800x600 and should be readabled to the user. Also a program with a lot of long menus is a badly designed program.


@Iggy Drougge
Are we looking at the same screenshot? In the one I've been looking at, the font size is an enormous 12 points, and the gadgets are just as huge. They've really blown up the GUI this time, as opposed to older versions.

Yes we are looking at the same screenshot. The widgets are too small and is apparent that they were designed for a 14 inch monitor. Look at this screenshot of Gnome and you'll know what I mean by too small:
http://vhost.dulug.duke.edu/~louie/screenshots/2.2/12.jpg

v CommunistOS
by Todu on Sat 24th May 2003 16:08 UTC
Ugh.
by Rayiner Hashem on Sat 24th May 2003 16:27 UTC

I think the first mistake lots of UI designers make today is to reach prematurely for the gradient tool. I heard from someone that one of the first things they teach you in computer graphics classes is to think very hard before using a gradient! Maybe that's just the color scheme, I don't know. Anyway, if you like the look and happen to be a Linux user, the icon set looks a lot like Aqua Fusion, and the window decoration is a lot like Quartz. I'm pretty sure the Aqua Fusion icon set is available for Windows as well.

Re: RE: Put up or shut up @ Greg
by wowtip on Sat 24th May 2003 16:50 UTC

"From what I've seen of the AmigaOS, it looks like total crap. NeXTStep was far superior."

I think very few have mentioned "AmigaOS" and "good looking" in the same sentence. But then, good GUI design is a lot more than just good looks.

RE: n0id
by wowtip on Sat 24th May 2003 16:59 UTC

From the webpage with the screen dump - "This is an un-official preview of MorphOS 1.4 and MUI PPC.".

Which imho makes the hammer and sickle icon a non issue.

Gradients
by Spark on Sat 24th May 2003 18:15 UTC

I think the first mistake lots of UI designers make today is to reach prematurely for the gradient tool.

True. ;)
I guess it's typical for GUI programmers to do this when they implement gradients for the first time. Remember Crux by Eazel and this "High Color Gradients" style by mosfet. ;) Now that the novelty weard off, gradients are rarely used anymore. My absolutely favorite so far for "generic" styles (not relying on pretty images) is BlueCurve which only uses a few gradients on the titlebar, selected menu items and progressbars in a very tasteful way.

RE:  The icons are a huge set back
by Jacek Piszczek on Sat 24th May 2003 19:19 UTC

This screenshot is NOT an official MorphOS1.4 screenshot. It is my private desktop and those icons are not part of MorphOS. I took them from some KDE icon archive.

v CommunistOS
by Todu on Sat 24th May 2003 19:23 UTC
RE: Joke
by Jacek Piszczek on Sat 24th May 2003 19:24 UTC

Actually the Temp: disk contains my developer environment, so I marked the thing as something "toxic" ;)

RE: CommunistOS
by Jacek Piszczek on Sat 24th May 2003 19:29 UTC

OK, I can agree I have rather weird sense of humour, but what does this have to do with MorphOS? You have no idea what I meant by using this symbol and your create theories out of space.

Does this run on current macs?
by The All Mighty Whopper on Sat 24th May 2003 23:49 UTC

Will this OS run on my ibook2? Where can I read more?

Yes we are looking at the same screenshot. The widgets are too small and is apparent that they were designed for a 14 inch monitor. Look at this screenshot of Gnome and you'll know what I mean by too small:
http://vhost.dulug.duke.edu/~louie/screenshots/2.2/12.jpg


Now I see what you mean. That screenshot must be from a system running a 1600x1200 screen on a 14 inch monitor. It even makes CDE, which is made to run at 21-inch monitors, look small by comparison.
Really, your Gnome is the odd one here, since the MorphOS screenshot has got even bigger elements than Windows (non-XP), a system which certainly isn't very conservative with screen space.

To The All Mighty Wopper
by Nate Downes on Sun 25th May 2003 02:43 UTC

MorphOS has it's homepage at: http://www.morphos.net

Some good reviews and the developer docs can be found there.

v CommunistOS
by Todu on Sun 25th May 2003 05:46 UTC
RE: 1600x on 14''
by Jacek Piszczek on Sun 25th May 2003 07:12 UTC

>That screenshot must be from a system running a 1600x1200 screen on a 14 inch monitor.

No, it's 1280x1024 on a 17'' tft.

Font size
by Don Cox on Sun 25th May 2003 09:49 UTC

"I agree that it should be set it according to monitor size and quality. But the default targeted resolution should be minimum 800x600 and should be readabled to the user. Also a program with a lot of long menus is a badly designed program."

Sure, but if you have bought the program, it is nice to be able to run it as well as possible.

As for the presently discussed screen grab, I am sure Jacek has set the fonts to whatever size suits him, for the program shown.

A screen grab of ProStation Audio would make a good comparison and contrast. (This program is to be bundled with the OS as a special offer.)

CommunistOS
by Todu on Sun 25th May 2003 10:16 UTC

I would never use this operating system. Look at the icon for "Temp" on the desktop. It shows the hammer and sickle. That was the emblem on the Soviet flag.

I want to promote human rights throughout the world. This operating system does just the opposite.

Actually
by smoke on Sun 25th May 2003 11:24 UTC

Now that I think of it this looks more like the supposed blackcomb theme shots that where "leaked" a while back.

Also about size. The borders in luna SKIN are big by default. But the widgets in the XP UI like sliders are small in XP compared to OSX and especially this. I actually think though that having them small is bad, at least when skinning goes anyway. I actually think MacOS size are a good size to use for sake of creativity in skins. These hosever especially the radio buttons I think are a little too big.

While I'm at it I actually don't think amiga's UI is the best looking especially now. It's kind of behind the times. Though I auplaud the effort to bring it up to speed. And I don't base my opinions from just shots I have used it quite a bit.

shots
by smoke on Sun 25th May 2003 11:31 UTC

they have better shots on the site like:

http://apollo.rsn.bth.se/~osnews/img/2337/morphos2.jpg

and

http://apollo.rsn.bth.se/~osnews/img/2337/morphos1.jpg

(which I think is a better theme)

Whenever I see the amiga file manager I'm reminded on how the Enlightenment team got inspiration from it especially now with the 32-bit icons.