Linked by David Adams on Tue 5th Aug 2003 16:56 UTC
Gentoo Linux World Expo is underway, and Gentoo has announced the release of version 1.4. It's available at the usual mirrors.
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jeez
by Anonymous on Tue 5th Aug 2003 17:14 UTC

Took long enough

P4 Live cd
by Charles on Tue 5th Aug 2003 17:19 UTC

I've checked several of the mirrors and cant't find a livecd for a P4.

Can anyone comment on this?

Re: P4 Live cd
by Anonymous on Tue 5th Aug 2003 17:28 UTC

Well, osnews.com jumped the gun, if it's not on the front page of gentoo.org then they "probably" don't have everything uploaded yet, or their in the process of doing it.

Either way, when people jump they gun about distro releases, confusion always comes up about if they downloaded the latest .0 release or the rc/beta.

Re: P4 Live CD
by TripKnot on Tue 5th Aug 2003 17:28 UTC

Give it time to propagate to all the mirrors. There is most definately a directory allocated for the P4.

In regards to "jeez", who cares about releases with gentoo anyways? A release is just the version of the install, it has no bearing whatsoever on your installed system. A simple "emerge sync" followed by "emerge world -Dup" is all thats needed for an up-to-date system. Try to do that with Red Hat or basically anything else besides debian or a *BSD.

Can't wait to get the new CD!
by NoNeedToUpdate on Tue 5th Aug 2003 17:29 UTC


Oh wait, I just emerged world last night. Nevermind.

Announcement
by Anonymous on Tue 5th Aug 2003 17:29 UTC

If already announced, where is it and why is it not linked?

Unofficial Torrents
by Anonymous on Tue 5th Aug 2003 17:30 UTC

unofficial torrents can be found at: http://dev.gentoo.org/~luke-jr/torrent/gentoo-1.4/

for those interested ;)

It wasn't officially released
by Mike on Tue 5th Aug 2003 17:50 UTC

I'm waiting for tommarow when there will bea n official release with official update ddocumentation and official mirrors and official... Aww, forget it. I'll just get it now!!!

Its there
by cybrjackle on Tue 5th Aug 2003 17:50 UTC

Just keep checking the mirrors there not all synced yet.

http://gentoo.oregonstate.edu/releases/x86/1.4/livecd/

Try to do that with Red Hat
by Aitvo on Tue 5th Aug 2003 17:51 UTC

Right, it's just SOOO HARD to run up2date, red-carpet, or apt on RedHat.

Re: P4 Live CD
by tomkins on Tue 5th Aug 2003 17:54 UTC

TripKnow said: A simple "emerge sync" followed by "emerge world -Dup" is all thats needed for an up-to-date system. Try to do that with Red Hat or basically anything else besides debian or a *BSD.

Red Hat with apt:
apt-get update
apt-get dist-upgrade

Red Hat with yum:
yum update

re: P4 Live CD
by Anonymous on Tue 5th Aug 2003 18:03 UTC

Yes, yum, apt-rpm et al are great, but that still doesn't mean it's advisable to attempt to upgrade between major RedHat releases using those tools alone. It's not supported in any way whatsoever.

If this has changed in the recent past, please post a link.

re: last post
by Syntaxis on Tue 5th Aug 2003 18:04 UTC

Last post was me, forgot to fill in the relevant fields *again*, sorry.

RE: tripknot
by contrasutra on Tue 5th Aug 2003 18:12 UTC

You can also upgrade between releases with Pacman and ArchLinux (archlinux.org), I have done it and it works great(and it is supported) .

grr
by null on Tue 5th Aug 2003 18:17 UTC

And I just installed 1.4-rc4 a few days ago... I knew I should have waited just a bit longer.

DivinePorts BSD
by Glanz on Tue 5th Aug 2003 18:25 UTC

.
.
.
[geek:~] geek% cd ~/divineports
[geek:~/divineports] kaos% sudo port install God
Password:
---> Fetching God
---> Attempting to fetch lGod-1.09.tar.gz from http://www.thecosmos.com/
---> Verifying checksum for God
---> Extracting God
---> Configuring God
---> Building God with target all
---> Installing God
[geek:~/divineports] geek% sudo port clean God
---> Cleaning God
[geek:~/divineports] geek%

boom!
by el capitan on Tue 5th Aug 2003 18:31 UTC

wasn't this due out at an expo about a year ago? speedy!

@ null
by UUi on Tue 5th Aug 2003 18:40 UTC

And I just installed 1.4-rc4 a few days ago... I knew I should have waited just a bit longer.

What's the problem? Don't you know how Gentoo works?

root # emerge sync
root # emerge -U world

Congrats, you just updated to 1.4final.

RedHat update
by Ikshaar on Tue 5th Aug 2003 18:40 UTC

>Red Hat with apt:
>apt-get update
>apt-get dist-upgrade
>Red Hat with yum:
>yum update

I don't know apt-get very well, do you mean you can do major upgrade (like 7.3 to 8, or 8 to 9) with apt-get on RedHat ???

So far, I always had to use CD to reboot on, then do the all upgrade process... and that's why I switched to Gentoo but if you can do it now, I can at least solve my friends' nightmare trying to upgrade.

Lets get a Review now!
by Cubs Fan on Tue 5th Aug 2003 18:41 UTC

I want to see a review now:)! You gotta love Gentoo except for the install/compiling.

Re: Redhat Update
by Justin Sane on Tue 5th Aug 2003 19:08 UTC

I don't know apt-get very well, do you mean you can do major upgrade (like 7.3 to 8, or 8 to 9) with apt-get on RedHat ???

To upgrade from RH 8 - RH 9

1) Make sure /etc/apt/sources.list is pointing to the RH8 apt repositories for "os", "updates", and "freshrpms" then do an "apt-get update" and an "apt-get dist-upgrade".

2) Change /etc/apt/sources.list to point to RH9 repositories for "os", "updates", and "freshrpms" (make sure the RH8 repos are commented out). Then you should be able to just do an "apt-get update" and "apt-get dist-upgrade" and it should upgrade you to RH9.

Lastly do # apt-get install kernel

That's it. A bit more involved than some of the others, but it can be done.

Re: RH Update
by teknishn on Tue 5th Aug 2003 19:21 UTC

In my experience....Mandrake, SuSE, RH......upgrading RPM based distros is questionable at best....just as upgrading windows from one version to another is not nearly as good as doing a clean install. Gentoo on the other hand simpley compiles the new packages and if successful, unmerges the older ones. It then has a utility called etc-update that allows you to to go in and compare new conf files to safely merge them without destroying your settings.

Its funny how everyone gets excited about 1.4 being released, because it really is meaningless in Gentoo. They should say Gentoo 1.4 LiveCD has been released, not Gentoo 1.4 has been released. Only thing this new 1.4 disk will be good for is new installs not existing installs. A simple emerge sync && emerge -u world is all you need to do on existing installs.

Gentoo Updates
by MattPie on Tue 5th Aug 2003 19:32 UTC

While Gentoo updates *seem* to work, it seems like a little things break every time you do one. I lost camera support in one upgrade, the Nvidia drivers got hosed in another, etc. I've mostly given up on gentoo, especially since I'm sick of making stuff work.

I just installed Suse, and everything seems to work fairly well. I plug in my camera and it works. In gentoo, I had to install gphoto2, then re-do KDE so it'd compile camera:/ support in, then figure out hotplug so I could to it as myself and not as root. Then, next update I lost all my hotplug prefs, and had to figure those out again.

Plus, emerge --update --deep world doesn't actually update world, unless Mozilla 1.2.1 is is current.

Gentoo 1.4
by Oubipaws on Tue 5th Aug 2003 19:40 UTC

People have been complaining all over the place about how they just installed gentoo 1.4_rc4.. dont you guys ever pay attention to the gentoo.org newsletters? And also, like null said, all you have to do is run emerge>


Anyway, good luck to people in finding ISO images today.. I just got lucky and finally got ISO Disc1 for P4 to download and I'm on a search for disc2.

Yawn (very cool yawn though)
by alspnost on Tue 5th Aug 2003 20:07 UTC

Gentoo is so cool, I don't even have to care about the 1.4 release, because versions mean nothing. I know most of you know that already, but it looks like some people above haven't realised that yet!

Anyway, I've been running Gentoo for 5 months now, and I've never looked back. Lovely piece of work, this is how software management should be. I probably will download the 1.4 LiveCD though, just to keep around in case my hardware goes up in smoke and I have to reinstall.

RE: Gentoo Updates
by Mystilleef on Tue 5th Aug 2003 20:08 UTC

While Gentoo updates *seem* to work, it seems like a little things break every time you do one. I lost camera support in one upgrade, the Nvidia drivers got hosed in another, etc. I've mostly given up on gentoo, especially since I'm sick of making stuff work.

I don't know whether to believe you or ignore you. How does and a system upgrade affect your Nvidia drivers or your gphoto settings? Did you rebuild the kernel? Did you have to upgrade your Nvidia kernel? Did an etc-update destroy your gphoto configuration settings? Honestly, I have no idea how on earth what you described could ever happen. Except, you intentionally screwed things over.

I just installed Suse, and everything seems to work fairly well. I plug in my camera and it works. In gentoo, I had to install gphoto2, then re-do KDE so it'd compile camera:/ support in, then figure out hotplug so I could to it as myself and not as root. Then, next update I lost all my hotplug prefs, and had to figure those out again.

Yeah, and who's fault is that? Is that my fault? Or is that Gentoo's? The USE Flags are there for a reason you know. Gentoo has always been for the advanced linux user who wants control and customization, above everything else. Might I suggest Lindows for you. You'd promptly throw your SUSE CD away after using. It basically baby sits you. By the way, how much fun is it updating your system via yast?

Plus, emerge --update --deep world doesn't actually update world, unless Mozilla 1.2.1 is is current.

You must be smoking stones. I give up on you.

Dude, the current stable version of Mozilla in portage is 1.4, are you sure it's Gentoo you've been using? When was the last time you used this supposed "Gentoo"?

Finally
by Mystilleef on Tue 5th Aug 2003 20:11 UTC

Finally, people can stop bitching about Gentoo's long installation time. Hmmm...let's see what they are going to whine about now.

Re: Pentium 4 Disc 2
by Androo on Tue 5th Aug 2003 20:19 UTC

http://gentoo.oregonstate.edu/releases/x86/1.4/livecd/pentium4/

Has had the Pentium 4 disc since about 2AM this morning (currently 3:19PM).

RE: RedHat Update
by nicknack on Tue 5th Aug 2003 20:24 UTC

RedHat installs kernels automatically with apt-get? Sounds nice. Do you need grub for this or is it possible with lilo also?

Since automatic hardware detection is in modern distros pretty good, I suspect that the next stage is where apt-get automatically recompiles the new kernel and optimizes it for your PC. :^)

updating gentoo
by jief on Tue 5th Aug 2003 20:35 UTC

actually, when there's a new release candidate, or a new version released, i always prefer to do this "emerge sync && emerge --deep -u world". but that's just personal.

genkernel
by dev0 on Tue 5th Aug 2003 20:38 UTC

The new genkernel utility looks really nice for people, who don't want to spend time on configuring+compiling their kernel during installation for whatever reason (unknown hardware/time).

dev0

it's ok
by foo on Tue 5th Aug 2003 20:53 UTC

regarding mattpie and mystilleef...I'm a gentoo user for about 6 or so months. Maybe it's just my luck or portage does break things some times. I'm no guru, just a little past n00b, but I can't always fix things after a full emerge of system and world.

I love gentoo, yet I dislike the growing hostility toward people who aren't linux experts. I'm figuring things out as time goes on cos I really like the ideas behind the distro...but c'mon, Portage isn't perfect <yet!>

foo out

RE: genkernel
by jief on Tue 5th Aug 2003 20:53 UTC

i can't wait to see that.

Hmmmm.......
by jared on Tue 5th Aug 2003 21:01 UTC

Hmm, it looks like I might have to get a buddy with high speed to download gentoo for me. If this portage works as nice as FreeBSD's ports well then that with Linux's hardware support, why I'd be in heaven....

Jared.

Re: RedHat update
by tomkins on Tue 5th Aug 2003 21:02 UTC

Anonymous wrote: Yes, yum, apt-rpm et al are great, but that still doesn't mean it's advisable to attempt to upgrade between major RedHat releases using those tools alone. It's not supported in any way whatsoever.

If this has changed in the recent past, please post a link.[i]

You're right, it's not officially supported, but it can be done.

Ikshaar Ikshaar wrote:
[i]I don't know apt-get very well, do you mean you can do major upgrade (like 7.3 to 8, or 8 to 9) with apt-get on RedHat ???


Yes, but it's not as simple as the example I gave, and it's easier to do with yum. The good news is that apt and yum can coexist.

So far, I always had to use CD to reboot on, then do the all upgrade process... and that's why I switched to Gentoo but if you can do it now, I can at least solve my friends' nightmare trying to upgrade

That is still the official way to do it if you'd rather do it that way. That still isn't hard and is a lot faster than compiling everything for a day.

Re: RedHat Update
by tomkins on Tue 5th Aug 2003 21:06 UTC

Oops, sorry about the formatting. OSNews really needs a preview feature ;)

Anonymous wrote: Yes, yum, apt-rpm et al are great, but that still doesn't mean it's advisable to attempt to upgrade between major RedHat releases using those tools alone. It's not supported in any way whatsoever.

If this has changed in the recent past, please post a link.


You're right, it's not officially supported, but it can be done.

Ikshaar Ikshaar wrote:
I don't know apt-get very well, do you mean you can do major upgrade (like 7.3 to 8, or 8 to 9) with apt-get on RedHat ???


Yes, but it's not as simple as the example I gave, and it's easier to do with yum. The good news is that apt and yum can coexist.

So far, I always had to use CD to reboot on, then do the all upgrade process... and that's why I switched to Gentoo but if you can do it now, I can at least solve my friends' nightmare trying to upgrade

That is still the official way to do it if you'd rather do it that way. That still isn't hard and is a lot faster than compiling everything for a day.

NVidia Drivers
by Anonymous on Tue 5th Aug 2003 21:07 UTC

Actually, there was an upgrade a while ago that could have made the NVidia driver stop working. NVidia changed the name of the driver from "NVdriver" to just "nvidia" It caught a lot of people off-guard.

RE: Foo
by contrasutra on Tue 5th Aug 2003 21:16 UTC

You may want to look at ArchLinux (archlinux.org). It has a ports like system (along with an APT-like system) and IMO, the community is very friendly.

Most of our users are Gentoo switchers, because they like ability to either use a binary or build using ABS (our ports system).

That, and the install is much easier, its more like Slackwares (if you are familiar with that).

Official Support
by Erwos on Tue 5th Aug 2003 21:28 UTC

As if "official support" matters. It's not as if Gentoo or Debian is going to give you any real support anyways if something goes wrong.

-Erwos

Re: RedHat Update
by Ikshaar on Tue 5th Aug 2003 21:28 UTC

tomkins :
>That is still the official way to do it if you'd rather do >it that way. That still isn't hard and is a lot faster than >compiling everything for a day.

Obviously you don't have to administrate 15 nodes in a cluster without CD drives !!! The point of a good server is that you don't have to be in the same room to administer it correctly. Upgrades included.

I put RedHat on PC for Linux beginners (and it's good), and Gentoo on my servers and for advanced users. There is room for several distros in this world ;)

gentoo
by jief on Tue 5th Aug 2003 21:52 UTC

Actually, I like Gentoo for home user, but if i had to install it on several work machines that would be hell. I mean going through the bootstrapping on each of those? and everytime you want to install something new, you need to compile it? it's just too much time-consuming for corporate use. or maybe it's just me that doesnt know the work around?

Re: RedHat Update
by tomkins on Tue 5th Aug 2003 22:02 UTC

Ikshaar wrote: Obviously you don't have to administrate 15 nodes in a cluster without CD drives !!! The point of a good server is that you don't have to be in the same room to administer it correctly. Upgrades included.

No, I don't. But if I did, I'd use apt or yum. How do you do it with Gentoo? Do you build on each machine, or is there a way to do it with just one build machine? Building on each machine would seem like a horrible waste of resources.

RE: Gentoo
by cheezwog on Tue 5th Aug 2003 22:07 UTC

"I mean going through the bootstrapping on each of those? "

This is not Windows. Just copy your working system onto as many machines as you like. Compile for a generic target like i586 if you have a number of different processors. Edit fstab to tast... Done.

As far as compiling.... You can download rpms and pre-compiled apps if you like. There are also pre-compiled GRP binary packages for portage, which saves a lot of time. You can create your own binary packages too.

Saying all that, it's not really a corporate distro (whatever that is ;) , unless you are looking at server farm or number crunching work. Suse would be better suited IMHO.

RE: Gentoo
by jief on Tue 5th Aug 2003 22:10 UTC

cheezwog: yeah but still, you have to copy a full system on a X number of nodes everytime you want to update it, instead of updating only a few packages.

that's why i like linux, depending on what you need to do, there's a distro out there that's perfect for almost any situation. But at home, Gentoo is the best IMHO.

distcc
by cybrjackle on Tue 5th Aug 2003 22:47 UTC

If you have a cluster of servers, cant you use distcc to speed up compile times?

Mutilple systems,
by cybrjackle on Tue 5th Aug 2003 23:00 UTC

I'll give that to RH from one perspective. KICKSTART!

I install Solaris on box's all the time. If it wasn't for Jumpstart & Flash, I would never get anything done. RH has kickstart which would aid in installing multiple systems and a fast pace.

I like Gentoo, RH & most Linux distro's, they all have advantages in some way or another.

Just no SCO Linux ;)

PowerPC iso
by Mark on Tue 5th Aug 2003 23:06 UTC

The images for the PowerPC have a "grp" in their name. Does anybody know what it means ?

Re: distcc
by Anonymous on Wed 6th Aug 2003 00:14 UTC

distcc and ccache as well.

I know I use them ;)

distcc
by jief on Wed 6th Aug 2003 01:51 UTC

isnt it limited to 8 nodes only? i believe i read that on the offical webpage. doest make a really big cluster...

but at home, geez i enjoy distcc, it makes compiling so much faster. especially on this old P2 file server i have.

RE: Gentoo
by Pseudonymous on Wed 6th Aug 2003 05:37 UTC

cheezwog: yeah but still, you have to copy a full system on a X number of nodes everytime you want to update it, instead of updating only a few packages.

Nonsense. On one box, NFS export /usr/portage, emerge sync, and emerge --buildpkg; on the rest, NFS mount /usr/portage and emerge --usepkg.

Availability of CDs
by Mark on Wed 6th Aug 2003 06:05 UTC

Instead of everyone trying to grab the files from the mirrors today, why not wait until next week ? I'm sure most mirrors will then have the ISOs and we'll all be happy :-)

I don't really get this.
by Anders Østergård on Wed 6th Aug 2003 08:57 UTC

I once used to run Linux. Gentoo was one of my experimental distributions on my desktop pc. I thought emerge was intelligent and well-designed. Well, it is. Better than rpm and possibly apt.

FreeBSD has had all these features in many years. You choose between either compiling your packages from a daily updated cvsup-tree or using the binaries. FreeBSD is quite easy to install, and it's stable as a rock. Good performance and a nice system for professional Unix-workstations on Intel hardware and servers for everything.
No experimental kernels, no testing drivers, no shit. Fast bootup-times, a nice text-ui for configuring the system.

Now, go fetch FreeBSD. If you are "impressed" by the Gentoo portage-system, go play with FreeBSD. It has been around since 386BSD in the early 90'ies.

Just my two cents on operating systems.

--
Anders

Can I ?
by Q on Wed 6th Aug 2003 09:51 UTC

Can I choose my compile time options with apt-get like I can with Gentoo?

RE: I don't really get this.
by Q on Wed 6th Aug 2003 09:54 UTC

>Now, go fetch FreeBSD. If you are "impressed" by the Gentoo
>portage-system, go play with FreeBSD. It has been around
>since 386BSD in the early 90'ies.

Yeah, I will. I'm running Gentoo, it is a real killer distro, but FreeBSD seems to be even better on some aspects. Gonna give it a try.

re: erwos
by Syntaxis on Wed 6th Aug 2003 10:33 UTC

"As if "official support" matters. It's not as if Gentoo or Debian is going to give you any real support anyways if something goes wrong."

I think you misunderstood. By "officially supported" I simply meant that the distro itself says "yes, that's the way to do it" as opposed to having to resort to 3rd-party utilities and packages. And yes, both Debian and Gentoo will try to help you out should the upgrade fail. Debian's likely to have a better track record in this area, though, because unlike Gentoo they don't have to support every CFLAG combination under the sun.

Cluster
by Ikshaar on Wed 6th Aug 2003 15:15 UTC

Tomkins: Building on each machine would seem like a horrible waste of resources.

As mentioned before, NFS share of /usr/portage... and that's it.

For kernel upgrade, I recompile them all separately but doing it on all at the same time take as much time as on one. As I need them all on at same time for computation, having them all stopped for upgrade together is not wasting anytime. Besides, my initial point was about major kernel upgrade, where going to the server room to connect cd-rom and display on each cluster one by one would be way more time consuming...

Re: PowerPC iso
by Kai on Wed 6th Aug 2003 18:34 UTC

> The images for the PowerPC have a "grp" in their name. Does
> anybody know what it means ?

Gentoo Reference Platform...just what they would consider "standard" for an installation...I believe it comes with precompiled binaries for most major packages...

@Mystileef
by Anonymous on Wed 6th Aug 2003 21:33 UTC

"By the way, how much fun is it updating your system via yast?"

I am not the one you have been replying to, but it's OK, you know... ;-)

freebsd and arch
by foo on Thu 7th Aug 2003 03:03 UTC

both look very interesting but I'm gonna work on trying to master Gentoo first ;) LOL.

I wonder how long it'll take for 1.5 to come out!

Gentoo 1.4 Review
by Sukhjeet Batth on Fri 8th Aug 2003 07:38 UTC

It would be nice if OS News did a 1.4 review as a follow up to the old review it did a while ago. The old one was very helpful and an update might be helpful for others considering migrating to Gentoo.