Linked by Eugenia Loli on Thu 28th Aug 2003 09:12 UTC
Xfce The XFce project is pleased to announce the third release candidate of the XFce 4.0 Desktop Environment and Development Platform.
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At long last!!
by pulidzz on Thu 28th Aug 2003 09:29 UTC

cant wait to try it out!! but I wish there is better menu creation or compatibility with KDE/GNOME menus. But anyways, i still love it except for Xffm.

I highly suggest to the chiefs of XFce to make a real, proper press release when XFce 4.0 is out. I have a few ideas on what the press release should state and how, I will be emailing the guys on Sept 2nd when I am back in US.

keep up the good work
by xedx on Thu 28th Aug 2003 09:58 UTC

cant wait for 4.0 ;) nice

Great product!
by nicknack on Thu 28th Aug 2003 10:01 UTC

XFce4 is an attractive looking, easy to configure, and light weight desktop environment. It has quickly become my default desktop both in Debian and FreeBSD. I have even become used to managing my files in Xffm and I especially like the easy access it offers to fstab and Samba. :-)

usability
by pulidzz on Thu 28th Aug 2003 10:01 UTC

Transferring the desktop menu from left click to right click is a good step towards usability!! Another thing that needs to be done isto make the KDE/GNOME menus appear in Xfce4's desktop menu. Also I hope the xfwm4 bugs the appear when mozilla opens download windows has already been addressed! Wil try this RC to be sure.

Desktop menu vs Start button in XFCE4
by Artem on Thu 28th Aug 2003 10:47 UTC

The funny thing is that while XFCE devels actively protest against adding panel Start menu a-la KDE or Gnome, they in the same time implement desktop menu which performs the same functions but is significantly INFERIOR from the usability point of view because it's not always accessible (i. e. to open the menu, you have to search for free desktop space to right-click on it; when you have many windows on the screen, it's highly annoying). With Start menu on the panel you would always know where to click.

Additionally, desktop menu is not accessible when you use ROX for managing root window (to display icons on the desktop).

RE: Start button
by nicknack on Thu 28th Aug 2003 11:30 UTC

If you're looking for a stripped down KDE or Gnome, please turn to their development teams. XFce4 is a different bird (although Gnome apps supplement it nicely). You may also prefer to use ROX Desktop, which is another interesting project.

Re: Desktop menu vs Start button in XFCE4
by Angry Bob on Thu 28th Aug 2003 11:41 UTC

Artem, couldn't you use ROX-Session, with Peter Geer's ROX-Menu?

http://www.cs.sunyit.edu/~geerp/rox/software.html#ROX-Menu

Sure, config is still a small pain, but its coming along. Just a thought.

I wonder...
by Anonymous on Thu 28th Aug 2003 11:56 UTC

if they have any plans to change or update the file manager? Its the one piece of xfce that just seems out of place and particulary useless.

The only flaw i noticed
by Maciej on Thu 28th Aug 2003 12:01 UTC

The panel should have a little hide button just like panels in Gnome or KDE. It would help a lot. Beside this it's a very nice Desktop Environment.

YAY!!
by Anonymous on Thu 28th Aug 2003 12:21 UTC

XFCE = RAWK!

xffm, xfmountdev4 hmh...
by Somewhere on Thu 28th Aug 2003 12:30 UTC

Disclaimer: i am not running XFce4 RC3 but the last Beta and i am sure a lot of work has gone into it since then. But on this basis i have a few nagging points. Perhaps these have been addressed?

xffm lacks some important features xftree (from XFce3) had. For one, the important hidden file switch. Currently i have do dive into "Options" or the context menu of a folder. Better than Nautilus or Konqueror, sure, but inferior to emelfm (which is my long standing default) or xftree. On a sidenote, the documented key bindings do not work.

File operations between two folders are a hassle, since i first have to dive into the context menu of the first folder i need , go to "open" and select "open in xffm". Then i have to navigate to the second folder within the first window. Bookmarks help, but don't like the abbreviation "book" for the corresponding folder. The "Go" Menu offers "Jump to" but the resulting dialog does not feature tab completion and this somewhat limits the usability (this is also true for xfrun4, maybe you want to take a look at gmrun for better handling.)
A solution would be to either put the "open in xffm" option in a prominent space within the context menu if you deal with a folder or make the new window action the default action for a double-click, or better the third mouse button (which is neglected to often, by most window managers i know).

I agree with the decision to use the single-click for selection, but not action. But double-clicking can be utilized better. Currently double-clicking a folder opens it, a good choice, but double-clicking an opened folder does not close it. In fact, it does nothing.

xfmount4dev opens xffm, which is nice, but in the normal file view with /~ replaced by /mounted_medium. Come on, i mount the medium, because i want to access the medium, not its toplevel.

Well, these are my nags with xffm and xfmountdev4. Regarding the rest i only would like to see a panel item that let me anchor the Debian menu, but currently the gtk-menu does the job. Oh, yeah, making the iconbox hideable would be great, too.

Almost forgot
by Somewhere on Thu 28th Aug 2003 12:32 UTC

I need more than 10 definable key shortcuts. Currently XFce4 crashes if you define more than 10 in ../keythemerc.

I love it!
by Bram on Thu 28th Aug 2003 12:48 UTC

It looks so nice, so clean. Mmm. I want it.

platforms
by Ben Huot on Thu 28th Aug 2003 13:11 UTC

Where can I see the candidates platform? He might be the one as I usually vote for 3rd parties.

4.0 for debian?
by Dave on Thu 28th Aug 2003 13:16 UTC

When are there going to be some .deb files available...installing from source/cvs on debian stable and libranet has been a total pain. I installed it on a RH9 system and liked it, but I prefer debian as an OS.

Hmm
by Aitvo on Thu 28th Aug 2003 13:28 UTC

Can't minimize Lotus Notes with RC3, it just pops right back up and takes focus lol. Back to XD2. (Off to file a bug report.)

XFCE 4 on debian
by david on Thu 28th Aug 2003 13:30 UTC

"When are there going to be some .deb files available."

It is in unstable for a few months ( I am using it on debian from the beginning. When I saw the screenshot at osnews, I dropped windowmaker and never went back ).

RE: XFCE 4 on debian
by Somewhere on Thu 28th Aug 2003 14:19 UTC

Yes, it is in SID in a very outdated version. I guess Mr. Loschwitz (XFce4 contributor and Debian maintainer) waits for the stable release before updating the .debs. Maybe you should try www.apt-get.org and see if some unofficial sources are available.

My gripes
by Bob on Thu 28th Aug 2003 15:15 UTC

-XFWM needs a split window feature
-It also needs a small icon view
-You cannot minimize the panel any more
-When the taskbar is not running, the icon box still makes room for it and won't fit in a corner
-You can't tear off desktop menus
-Icon drag'n drop on the panel?
-No option to reuse last active window on desktop switch.
-Less than 100% wide panel makes for ugly maximizations. There should be an option to allow the window maximization to not use the vertical space that panel does, like how KDE and GNOME handle panels of <100%.
-Cannot have sub menus on panel drawers
-No easy way to configure keybindings
-No tab (or auto) completion in XFFM
-No way to quickly edit the current location in the filesystem
-Image previews are buggy, don't always display thumbnails.

I realize that most of these cannot be fixed if RC3 is to become 4.0 but still, some of them are not too difficult.

Re: Re: Start button (nicknack)
by Artem on Thu 28th Aug 2003 16:46 UTC

"If you're looking for a stripped down KDE or Gnome, please turn to their development teams. XFce4 is a different bird (although Gnome apps supplement it nicely). You may also prefer to use ROX Desktop, which is another interesting project."

ROX Desktop: not there yet ;) I use ROX for desktop icons and file management. And guess what, XFCE4 is my main DE :-)

Concerning KDE & Gnome: This is the kind of reaction I actually expected. But it's really strange for me. Why whenever anybody says "Start button" people start talking about Gnome or KDE? And some of them get very angry... If you read my post carefully, I was basically saying the following:

What exactly is the difference between the desktop menu and the Start button menu?

If you implement it _anyway_, why not go a little step further and let it be accessible from the panel? It would just add flexibility and improve usability of the program menu for the reason I explained in my original post. You don't even need to include it in the default configuration...

Re: Re: Desktop menu vs Start button in XFCE4 (angry bob)
by Artem on Thu 28th Aug 2003 16:54 UTC

"Artem, couldn't you use ROX-Session, with Peter Geer's ROX-Menu?

http://www.cs.sunyit.edu/~geerp/rox/software.html#ROX-Menu

Sure, config is still a small pain, but its coming along. Just a thought."

I tried it. I just don't like ROX panels, and I do like XFCE4 panel and taskbar (and XFCE4 in general :-). Anyway, I wouldn't this button often, but it can be handy sometimes. When you don't know the name of the app you want to run, for instance.

Re: The only flaw i noticed (Maciej)
by Artem on Thu 28th Aug 2003 16:57 UTC

"The panel should have a little hide button just like panels in Gnome or KDE. It would help a lot. Beside this it's a very nice Desktop Environment."

There is such a plugin for XFCE panel. Maybe in Extras, not sure.

taskbar anyone ?
by Dewd on Thu 28th Aug 2003 17:15 UTC

I wish it had a taskbar like Windows or gnome/kde. That way I could maximize the windows and still have everything fit on the screen.
Something like IceWM with the power of Gtk+ would be nice.

My wish
by Aitvo on Thu 28th Aug 2003 17:33 UTC

Is that it had minimize icons ala XFCE3 :-(

Pre-releases are for bug-testing
by nicknack on Thu 28th Aug 2003 17:54 UTC

Perhaps this is not the best time to gripe and demand new features. Let's test this pre-release and report all the bugs we can find so that the official release 4.0 will become a stable basis for future development (and possibly new features).

And yes, XFce4 is quite modular. If you like Rox filer better, you can load it instead of xffm. If you don't like the panel, then don't load it. Maybe you can even find a substitute that launches menus through a start button. :-)

Personally, I kind of like XFce4 the way it is but I'm all for flexibility and more choices. Just as long as XFce4 doesn't get as bloated as the big fellas K and G.

well, it's in in debian stable, and afaik you can also get it into the other versions, but only up to xfce 3.something (3.2 or something like that) which is ok, but not as nice as 4.

RE: Dave
by nicknack on Thu 28th Aug 2003 19:22 UTC

Well, you could try apt-pinning and get XFce4 from Unstable branch, see
http://jaqque.sbih.org/kplug/apt-pinning.html
for details. However, as a general rule it is unwise to mix branches. If you want the latest software, maybe you should consider upgrading your whole system to Debian Sid.

RE: Start button
by Mr. Banned on Thu 28th Aug 2003 20:51 UTC

XFce4 is a different bird (although Gnome apps supplement it nicely)

Actually, I've always felt KDE apps were a better choice for using w/XFCE. But then again, I choose KDE over Gnome whenever I can.

8)=

nah
by adrian on Thu 28th Aug 2003 21:32 UTC

KDE apps don't use the same theme unless you use something like Geramik, that's why GNOME apps ar ebetter for XFCE. They look more integrated.

RE: Dave (IP: 129.171.150.---)
by Somewhere on Fri 29th Aug 2003 09:31 UTC

Or you can wait for a backport, which probably will come along. BTW, XFce3 in Woody is 3.8.16.

RE: All
by E. on Fri 29th Aug 2003 23:27 UTC

XFce4 is great... my favorite desktop environment!


In response to...

"I wish it had a taskbar like Windows or gnome/kde. That way I could maximize the windows and still have everything fit on the screen."

XFce4 does have a taskbar!


In response to...

" I wish there is better menu creation or compatibility with KDE/GNOME menus." and... "Another thing that needs to be done isto make the KDE/GNOME menus appear in Xfce4's desktop menu. "

It's actually pretty easy to build the desktop menu. Here's how I built mine.
1) Open your Blackbox menu.rc file in Abiword.
2) Replace all of the rc file stuff with the xml tags specified in the default desktop menu. (Find and Replace are your best friends).
3) After copying the menu.xml file to your ~/.xfce4 directory, open in a text editor like gedit or kate.
copy and paste your new menu from abi word into the menu.xml file.
4) Save and debug.


IN response to "(All I Wish) Is that it had minimize icons ala XFCE3 :-(" XFce4 has the icon box. Very slick. I use it instead of the task bar.

RE: E. (IP: ---.cox-internet.com)
by Somewhere on Sat 30th Aug 2003 10:17 UTC

>> IN response to "(All I Wish) Is that it had minimize icons ala XFCE3 :-(" XFce4 has the icon box. Very slick. I use it instead of the task bar. <<

Yes, but is it able to hide? Like the panel, for instance?