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I totally agree with the author. I have used LindowsOS 3.0 and 4.0 and both (espacially 4.0) impressed me. A little voice in the back of my head went: "So it is possible to make Linux usable for my grandmother!"

But (yeah, there's a 'but'), the fact that you can get an almost similar product for free (Lycoris Dektop/LX) stopped me from using LindowsOS any further. I think Lycoris's future Beryl release is gonna blow LindowsOS 4.0, since the Beryl release will be available for free, and it will (finally) include KDE 3.x. But, full props to the LindowsOS team, they deliverd a very good and high quality product. I hope they keep up the good work!

Lindows?!! But he's running as ROOT!!! blah blah blah

I tried Lindows 4.0 for fun (I'm a SuSE user) and I found it amazing as far as hardware goes. It took 10 minutes to install and it configured my WiFi automatically and I was surfing the web in no time.

You _have_ to understand that Lindows is NOT designed for those looking for "freedom" and "power", it's designed for those who don't give a damn about computers other than say email, browsing the web, printing some docs, chatting on MSN with friends, lisening to MP3 and getting some pics from your digital camera.

Users don't know and don't care if it's KDE or Gnome (Lindows chose KDE for obvious reasons) and they don't want to do any installation that is not as easy or easier than windows (and lindows click'n'run is the easiest installation process I have seen on ANY platform). Therefore Lindows target audiance probably doesn't include those who have 3 instances of emacs running while debugging some unknown up in gcc.

I have installed Lindows on my GF computers and she loves it! I can't install Lindows on my computer because it's just not designed for power users (no development tools whatso ever, unless you spend two hours downloading them all). And click'n'run is not bleeding edge, so it doesn't suit me, but my GF doesn't care if she's using KDE 3.05 or KDE 3.1.90 from CVS HEAD.

Just my 2 euros

well, you don't debug stuff with gcc, you do with GDB.

Also, as far as running as root goes. It took me about 30 seconds to add a user and I explained to my GF that she needs to provide the "security" passwords when she's asked to and that it protect her computer against viruses and she's happy with that!

I continue to be baffled as to why people can't do a simple apt-get <packagename>. And if they don't know the packagename, what's so difficult about apt-cache search <keyword>?

Before I found apt for rpm, it might have been a bit challenging to install rpms, if you didn't pay attention to the prerequisites.

Apt is so simple and useful, why doesn't RedHat include it in their distro? Will we get a chance to have a say with the new RHL project?

I tried Lindows 3.0. I could see where it was going, but it wasn't quite there yet. It sounds like 4.0 has reached a new level of user-friendliness, which is the Lindows vision. I will have to get a hold of 4.0 and try!

Thank you for writing the review and providing the details. I think it is okay to write a very positive review as long as you give the sort of details you did, such as 'Brand Z didn't do this very well for me, but Lindows did' and 'I did such and such in just ten minutes' and 'it installed without problems on three of my computers.' Good comments! Thanks again!

Running games trough an emulator must go slow as hell.

If you want to use apt-get, use it, but it's not 'simple' as far as how 'normal' people with no computer experince define simple. Why?

1. Command line. That's a big no-no
2. Packages what? Novice users don't know what a package is nor they know what they are looking for exactly. Click'n'Run gives them a GUI that talks about 'programs' that does stuff for you. They don't have KOrginizer in Lindows. They have it under the name "Time Organizer" and all users have to do is to look at the description and click get and it's installed.

This _is_ what users expect and what.

I use Mandrake 9.1 and Win4Lin 5.0 and I can tell you that you can not play most Windows games using Win4Lin. Win4Lin does not totally support DirectX, meaning that Windows Media Player doesn't work either. It only works for players that don’t require direct hardware access.

Exactly what games were you playing through Win4Lin?

There is one thing I believe Lindows does very well, and that's Click and Run. You pick an application and it is installed automatically.
Altough APT(itude) and FreeBSD (sysinstall) provide a nice menu for selecting packages to install, and altough they also solve dependencies automatically, they do not only list applications, but also all kinds of stupid utilities and hundreds if not thousands of libraries.
It would be great if people would make a simple menu for selecting applications, something like Tasksel, but with more tasks, grouped by application, and graphically. For example, this could be a quote from the list:

L Internet applications
| L Evolution
| L Flash plugin
| L Kopete
| L Mozilla
L Office
| L KOffice
| L OpenOffice
| L TeX (including LaTex, xfig and LyX)
L Command-line
L Compression tools (zip, unzip, unrar)
L Editors
| L Vim
| L Emacs
| L Other editors (nano, jed, joe)
L Scripting tools (dialog, lxdialog ...)

Now the only problem is that at the moment I have another project to code on... ;-)

Pros :: Auto-hardware detection, User-friendlyness. Cons :: Not Free (costly), Limited Software, Limited Choise, Not Open source. I think Overall Lindows is absoulty a Con, It utilizes Linux, But it takes its morals and ethics from Windows. I think any User (except grandmas:-) can instead choose distributions like Mandrake, Onebase Linux (http://www.onebase-linux.org) which is as also Easy and follows the True ethics of Linux. But it requires a Little Interest ;-)

Lindows is da ghey...as margaret cho would say

The title of this article is most humorous

Ever hear of the front-end Synaptic?

just two comments:

you won't be able to play windows-games through win4Lin. There is no complete DirectX support.
Maybe WineX is the better part for some particular games.

Second: Also give Xandros a try - I've choosen it instead of Lindows2/3 and waiting for the upcoming Xandros2

Lindows?!! But he's running as ROOT!!! blah blah blah

Does it really still do that? I thought they fixed the running as root stuff.

You could set up a regular user back in version 2.0

Synaptic isn't the be all and end all of conveniece. What is needed is a front end that can actually link to the home page of the app at hand, and provide detailed package information. Maybe something a bit like an web page and this will include a little detailed package description and perhaps a little screenshot.

I find that Red-carpet has sort of the right idea, they do provide pretty verbose information, but it still lacks in that you have to know what you are looking for, which we do not always know.

Some things in synaptic are pretty complex still. I haven't used CNR, but I think it may have the right idea.

And for the guy who asked about apt and redhat, well, RH10 should have apt or yum. up2date will work with yum, but I do not know about apt, but I think it will work, do not remember. This should also reduce the load on Redhat's servers, since some packages will come from Fedora and maybe Freshrpms.

I think there is a need to be able to let users install apps in their home directories, and this should be allowable by the system administrator. I think Red-carpet provides this sort of facility, but I haven't used it, being both the admin and the user of my machine.

You could set up a regular user back in version 2.0

Not good enough.

The kind of end users that LindowsOS targets are not going to know enough to know that the LindowsOS default to run as root is insecure. If the OS is going to make decisions for the user, it should make the right ones, and this decision isn't right. The main reason MS defaults to Administrator privileges is because too much Windows software requires such privileges. That's not an issue with Linux software. Even OS X expects a password to be used for certain tasks.

Ok, so the author mentions that he installed the new RedHat beta. I can't for the life of me find it, anyone know where its hiding? hmmmmmmmm beta-y goodness

I have tried the 4.0 version of Lindows. It does everything it says it does. Fast and easy install, smooth OS, with excellent user friendly approach. I only have 2 suggestions for the Lindows folks.

1. Add the ability to customize the partitioning during the install. Make it simple enough for a total newbie to use without affecting your easy approach now used.

2. Add some sort of multimedia explanation on how to setup users rather than running as root by default. WinXP has the ability to run in a user mode. Unfortunately too many of the computer manufacturers still release XP "running as root" which defeats the improvements made by Microsoft including this ability in XP. (it doesn't help that half the software vendors still release software for Windows that doesn't work with the permissions in XP but thats another issue)

Linux shouldn't fall into this same trap. There are huge security advantages to users when they run in a user mode rather then root mode. It just takes a simple explanation to "newbies" such as:

"In "User Mode" junior can't delete Dads tax files." (multimedia demo talking)

(Dad thinking) Cool! Where is that user button, I want to add users now!

Its on their ftp site. Quite old now, you will have to update quite a lot. Its called Severn. Some pretty good stuff in it too.

Mandrake has it for years now (since the 8.0 or 7.2 I think) and it works like a charm......
ok, I want xine
urpmi xine
I want mplayer
urpmi mplayer

the only difficult stuff is to setup the sources access
but through http://plf.zarb.org/~nanardon/ it's easy to just do a cut and paste......

by the way plf sites contains material stuffs mandrake is not allowed to distribute (decss, encrypted dvd player, emulator, dvd rip programm, p2p (mldonkey is the best) bref tons of really usefull apps.
and there're a lot more sources for urpmi than for apt-rpm...

so why redhat doesn't propose it ?

>> I think there is a need to be able to let users install apps in their home directories, and this should be allowable by the system administrator. I think Red-carpet provides this sort of facility, but I haven't used it, being both the admin and the user of my machine. <<

Right! And does Red Carpet really provide this? How?

lindows, mr. robertson, their businessmodel and their position regarding the oss-community or not, it's obvious that they have understood what it takes to make linux a success on everyones desktop, and that's ease-of-use and integration. it's time for the classic vendors like suse, mandrake and first and foremost red hat to wake up and compete (i think it's a big mistake of especially red hat to abandon the homemarket and concentrating solely on the corporate one)!

otherwise, in a not too distant future, lindows might be a synonym for linux on (endusers-)desktop which would imo be very sad!

Thanks for your kind review.

Lindows.com will be celebrating our two-year anniversary on Sep. 1st, so we're still relatively new on the Linux landscape compared with SuSE, Red Hat, Mandrake, etc. As with any new product, there can always be misinformation surrounding it, so we're always thrilled when someone helps share their real life experience with the world as it helps educate everyone about the product. (The whole "LindowsOS must run as root" issue is a great example of something that hasn't been true since our first commercial release of LindowsOS.)

We work EXTREMELY hard here at Lindows.com trying to get every last detail right, and as you pointed out, it shows when you try using it.

I think the biggest difference with LindowsOS and other Linux distro's is simply that creating an easy-to-use, robust, stable, and secure DESKTOP Linux IS ALL WE DO. We eat, sleep and drink the DESKTOP. Because our entire company is dedicated 100% to the desktop, it shouldn't be a surprise that we have a level of polish that you probably won't find with other versions who are more focused on the server side of things.

WE here at Lindows.com use Red Hat and SuSE for our Sever-side needs, and they are both excellent products. But, for Desktop use, we're confident many will find LindowsOS to be the preferred Linux, simply because we spend so much time on the details for desktop use.

Thanks again. If you or anyone has any questions, please feel free to email me personally and I'd love to answer them for you.

Kevin Carmony
President, Lindows.com
kevinc@lindows.com

How about an anniversary 50%-off sale..? ;-)

I assume that they also distribute the source with the
binaries (at least the GPL'd ones)?

Doing what the user want, fast, without having to choose is good. Lindows does that so it's good. Sill, I don't understand why some people speak about the fact that's it's not completly free... Cmon, some people work on this and they expect to get paid, it's like everything. Your hire someone, you have to pay it, unless he don't want to. If you stop paying him, he'll leave. I think more and more good distro will have costs.

"All in all, I spent $89.95 and replaced Windows XP on all 3 computers in my home saving me more than $500 a machine in Microsoft licenses for XP, Office, Money and other game software."

Actually, he *lost* more than $500 per machine. This is basic economics. Since he already owns the machines, and they already have Windows XP installed, the fact that he is not using Windoxs XP on these machines means he spent the money for nothing. His antilogical statement is analagous to someone that spends $65,000 on a new car, then buys another car for $15,000, vowing to never drive the $65,000 car again, shouting for joy that he "saved" $50,000! One may be happy that such a fellow has found bliss, but his bliss is derived from being an idiot.

Moreover, the same goes for MS Office. If he decides in the future to not purchase any computers with MS Office preinstalled *then* he can make somewhat of an argument that he "saved" money.

Regarding the games, there is no "saving" whatsoever; indeed, he, yet again, has lost money--if he legitimately purchased the games and the games (vice pirated copies) and the games are for a Windows environment then he wasted the money for the games if he is opting for a pure "Lindows" operating environment.

And Win4Lin does not permit one to use any (or even most...) Windows games on a Lindows machine.

Lindows is making a real attempt at a user-friendly environment for new users and users from a pure Windows background. But to go on about "saving" money by not using software one has already purchases are the comments of an idiot. A happy idiot, but an idiot nonetheless.

You can order the source from them for just a shipping charge, if you've bought the product.

And before you complaint, its perfectly legit.

Yes, to anyone we distribute software to we always allow them to download the source code to any of the GPL software or they can order it on disk. LindowsOS contains code with several different licenses and we comply with each.

As for XP being free, perhaps he simply purchased computers WITHOUT XP on it for around $100 less.

For example: http://www.prosourcepc.com/cfg/perform.cfm?sysno=2

Notice what you have to pay if you want XP added. =)

Builders pay around $100 to install XP on a computer. They certainly don't include it without raising the price of their computers to the consumer. On low-cost computers, the most expensive component (more than the motherboard, CPU, hard drive, etc.) is XP.

You can find more places to buy computers without XP at: http://lindows.com/featured

Kevin

Kevin, do you mean lindows doesen't run as root or that the user can always run as a normal user?

In addition, I think Lindows is OSS, I was pointed to the source once.

"You can find more places to buy computers without XP at: http://lindows.com/featured "

Haha, some clever remark...

Anyway, keep up the good work LindowsOS, you're doing the right thing for the right audience.

When you install LindowsOS, it sets up an account that we call the "Administrator" account. This is the root account, but we don't call it that simply because 99% of this planet doesn't know what a "root" is. Once you've installed LindowsOS as the Administrator, you can then add "users." Each time the computer reboots, you are presented with a friendly menu listing the Administrator account and each user. You simply click on the one you wish to login as and enter the appropriate password.

Parts of LindowsOS are OSS, but parts are not (Java, Flash, Bitstreamfonts, QuickTime libraries, etc.). We provide source for the OSS parts, but obviously not for the propriatary pieces. 1) We don't have the source, 2) We don't have a license to distribute the source.

Kevin

Kind of fun it has received such good reviews at MSNBC

http://www.msnbc.com/news/937066.asp?0cv=TA01&cp1=1

But he's running as ROOT!!! blah blah blah

Whether it be Windows, Linux, *BSD, etc.. I ALWAYS login as root/Administrator. While I wouldn't recommend this to the faint at heart, it is not inherently a problem. One only has to accept that the consequences of stupidity is suffering and therefore learn not to be stupid.

Interesting to see the comments from Kevin about some places he found that sold PCs without XP pre-installed - I can assure that these are few and far between unless you go for unknown brands.

A few years back, Microsoft launched a campaign to stop "naked PCs" being sold to the public - i.e. PCs with no operating systems on them. According to MS, the only thing you can do with a PC with no OS on it is to install a pirated copy of Windows on it !

You just try to buy an Intel-compatible desktop PC or - even worse - a laptop from a major brand name either without an operating system pre-installed or with a non-MS OS pre-installed in it and you'll have a heck of job doing so. I think this is what is holding back Linux the most on the desktop and it's certainly what hurts Lindows the most.

The situation with laptop vendors and pre-installing Windows is still hugely desperate - I had to tell the Webmaster of http://www.tuxmobil.org/reseller.html to pull the only UK reseller listed there (they'd dumped Linux and gone back to Windows-only on laptops).

Right! And does Red Carpet really provide this? How?

Add users. If you are root, yo ucan add users and allow them to add some software too. If you have a supported distro that is.

Get over it, Development cost money(period). An inital $100 and then $50 a year is way better than paying $200 for Windows XP Home or $300 for Windows XP Pro. If you use Linux, support it. No matter which distribution you use.

You might find that biased after reading a site like Slashdot, but in reality, most sites try to report news fairly.

No thanks, I don't want anything which looks and feels like windows.

Maybe if you like advertising, branding, and marketing worked into every last corner of the OS. I got a PC with Lindows pre-loaded to use as a file and application server at work last week. (It's one of the tiny Via Mini-ITX boxes...very cool) I gave Lindows a chance (well, about 10 minutes till I could stand it no longer) then wiped it out and put Mandrake 9.1 on it. I know it's a matter of taste, but the word "Lindows" is stupid and I don't like seeing it absolutely everywhere I look, on absolutely every screen, on absolutely every application and in absolutely every menu. Even all 15 or 20 default wallpapers Lindows comes with had the word Lindows on them. Yuck. If I wanted to be assaulted with advertising like that I would use Windows. I still firmly believe Mandrake's unpolluted KDE is much better for newbies and power users alike than Lindows. It looks better, it feels cleaner, and all the applications have their real names, not "Mandrake Office" "Mandrake Archiving Tool" "Mandrake Notepad" "Mandrake Media Player", and it comes with so much by default that a newbie would have no reason to shell out another $49 for the privilage of downloading free software.

I honestly don't know why anyone would curse someone they love with Lindows...can't you configure a Red Hat or Mandrake system for your GF that works better, is more up-to-date and more "free", or are you too lazy?

Get over it, Development cost money(period). An inital $100 and then $50 a year is way better than paying $200 for Windows XP Home or $300 for Windows XP Pro.

Except that few people (if any) actually pay that price. 95% of the time, you get Windows either a) With a new computer or b) as an upgrade.

So, you would end up paying about $100/$200 for Home/Pro respectively:

Lindows (3 years) $100 + ($50 + 3) = $250
Lindows (4 years) $100 + ($50 * 4) = $300
Windows Home (3/4 years) = $100
Windows Pro (3/4 years) = $200

Ok I give you that, but with spending $100 for Home, $200 Pro, you still don't get discounts on commercial products, your not getting a download service were you can download upgrades to the OS for free(I'm not talking about patches, I'm talking about OS upgrades). If you lose or break your XP cd/restore cd you cant just go to the manufactures site and download a new cd image. But at anyrate that wasn't necessarily my point, my point is if you use Linux support Linux.

It's not really fair to compare paying $50 a year for Click-N-Run and then assume you'll never want to update your XP computer's software for the next four years.

Here is how Click-N-Run Works:

1. Buy LindowsOS for $50, or better yet, buy a LindowsOS computer and you get LindowsOS for free. Unlike XP, we actually do mean free, because the builder didn't have to pay $100 to install it so they don't pass the cost on to you. (See http://lindows.com/builder for details.)

2. Pay $50 for a year of Click-N-Run. Install as much software as you like during the year.

3. At the end of the year, you STILL can use Click-N-Run to install any of the programs you own. You see, any programs you install with CNR get added to your My.Lindows account FOR LIFE and you always have access to them, even if you're not a CNR member.

4. The only reason you'd pay $50 the next year is if there are NEW programs available, or if you want to keep ALL your software updated with just one click.

Comparing $50 a year for CNR to 4 years of XP, is like comparing a guy who pays $20 for a hair cut every month to someone who goes a year on one hair cut. =) If you think you'll never pay to upgrade MS Windows or any of the software you're running on it for four years, then the same would hold true for LindowsOS and the software you've installed during the first year.

Kevin Carmony
President, Lindows.com

Is that they don't offer free or discounted access to developers that want to provide software in the click and run warehouse. I would love to add software to click n run but I don't run Lindows as my OS. I suppose if I wanted to make money on my software then I should pony up for a license, but as anyone can plainly see I don't charge for it.

The user interface in 4.0 is still sub-standard. All the icons look clunky and the window frames look bulky and unpolished. For users who want a beautiful interface and it matters more than other features, Lindows OS is just not there (not that they want to be there).

1. Buy LindowsOS for $50, or better yet, buy a LindowsOS computer and you get LindowsOS for free. Unlike XP, we actually do mean free, because the builder didn't have to pay $100 to install it so they don't pass the cost on to you. (See http://lindows.com/builder for details.)


The Bronze Builder Program ... <snip> ... At a flat $100 per year licensing fee ... <snip>

The Silver Builder Program ... <snip> ... At a flat $500 monthly licensing fee ... <snip>


The builder DOES have to pay AT LEAST $100 to install it, and I'm SURE they pass that on.

A builder can ship as many copies of LindowsOS on as many computers as he wants for only $100 a year.

If a builder ONLY sells even 5 computer a month (most of our builders sell hundreds), then yes, he needs to pass on a whopping $1.67 per computer to the consumer.

That's a far cry cheaper than $100 PER COMPUTER!

Kevin

Nothing is free... nothing!
Installing any OS always costs something, whether it be time or money or beer.

I use gentoo for my server (bleeding edge stuff), and Lindows on my main machine. I dont like Windows much - 20+ years (damn!) has left a sour taste in my mouth.
Why do I prefer lindows for the desktop?. Its easy. CNR is easy. With a little time and nurture it could become a really nice and worthwhile product.

Ive also tried pretty much every Redhat/Mandrake/Suse/Slackware(mmm!) distro and many others. They all have their strengths and weaknesses - most try to do too much ie. server and desktop
As for the cost of Lindows.... Any hardcore linux users prefer to clean their own drains and take their own rubbish to the dump site? no? You pay a service charge! And there is decent competition right?

Lindows is a nice breath of fresh air that offers a nice friendly alternative to Windblows. Maybe it shows that people dont mind paying for useability. I dont, and Im a hack! lol!

enough said.

When I see people pirating Lindows, then I'll believe it's getting worthwhile.

Someone who goes to a high street computer store can be talked into buying anything.

Pirates are the discerning connoisseurs of our time. For something to be worth the trouble taken to digitally locate, download and install it, it must be worthwhile.

Lindows has been pirated. Ive seen it personally. It is available if you know where to look and who to ask.
I chose to purchase my copy of Lindows 4.0 since all good software deserves reward. I buy the OSes I use and games I play

If it weren't for piracy, Windows wouldn't have the monopoly on the desktop, and Flash wouldn't be a defacto standard.

There are loads of places to find pirated copies of LindowsOS (granted, they might be outdated, missing stuff, etc.), but the real beauty comes from the Click-N-Run SERVICE, which can't be pirated. <evil grin>

We have 55 very hard working employees who are able to work full-time on LindowsOS thanks to those who buy our products. So, thank you to our users (you know who you are =) Lindows.com has a very tight community of users. Come join us sometime as a guest and see for yourself.

http://forum.lindows.com

Kevin

> No thanks, I don't want anything which looks and feels like windows.

I don't think Lindows would want Linux g33ks like you for customers anyways.

> When I see people pirating Lindows, then I'll believe it's getting worthwhile.

You can easily find Lindows pirated.. just doing a quick google search for "lindows ISO", I found http://home.comcast.net/~btsuprnova/list_torrents/apps.html , which lets you get Lindows through bittorrent.

Not that there is any point, CNR is the best thing about Lindows and is what truly sets it apart from other distros and even Windows. I moved from Mandrake and bought Lindows 4.0 and haven't looked back.

I/ve been using Lindows for almost a year now, and it has better hardware detection than any of the other 30 distros that I've tried. Even found some of my 56k modems....External Elsa Microlink........internal Conextant........internal LT Winmodem...internal PCTel.....(not all LTs or PcTel, but some).
Now for the $65,000 car thing vs the $15,000 car.
Say you got 10 houses(computers) with 10 driveways for 10 cars(Operating Systems). The first Win-car in first driveway
cost you $65,000. If you put a Win-car in each driveway you must pay $65,000 nine more times. If you have Lindows-cars you only have to pay the $15,000 once and you can have a Lindows-car in each driveway. SWEEEET.
If you want a radio (Office) in each of the Win-cars you have to pay about $350 times ten.
To put a radio in the Lindows-car (Open Office) you pay $0.
For 10 Lin-radios you pay 10 times $0 = $0
Or you can purchase super radio (Star Office) for the Lindows-car from Click and Buy (Click and Run) for $29.95 and put it on each of your Lindows-cars. $29.95 for all 10 of them.
Or if you want a Win-radio in the Lindows-car, you can buy Win4Lin and put that on all 10 Lindows-cars for the price of one installation ($69.99)........but you must only install one copy of Win-radio (Office) license issue, sorry.
Also there are many win applications that will run under Win4Lin and Wine (free=$0)
I have about 15 computers and have LindowOS on all but two or three.
Have I ever saved a bundle or what? Also, I have learned a lot about Linux in general, the Lindows forums are teriffic,and I have had a lot of fun with the OS.
It works very,very well.
JLT

So, is anything new/worthwhile aboug v4 that wasn't in v3?

I have been an Insider at Lindows.com since the days of 0.9rc1 and I am also a developer for Windows (have used all version of Delphi). Comparing the two, let me tell you this:

On Software, since I am an Insider I have full access to CNR and all commercial software from Lindows. I have the license to install it on both my systems at home, and download all the software I need. And if someone says you are limited to CNR they are wrong. With Synaptic I get access to another 5000 titles of software for free.

Even if I don't continue using CNR (which of course I will). I use Openoffice just fine (also have StarOffice 6.0) and the cost is way down from doing the same with Windows.

I use Office in Windows only because a new license scheema from Microsofts allows me to use it for free at home (on ONE machine), if I have a PRO license at the office.

As for Security, I have always used Windows on Administrative mode. So root on Lindows is not a problem. I have setup a user account for my sister though on Lindows.

The reason I don't get rid of Windows is because all our clients use Windows. They don't know that anything else exists, or even imagine it. They think computers are made for Windows, and not the other way around, or they think Windows are the Computer :-)

That has to change for IT companies to servive in the future. Otherwise the market is going to be condensed to one company: Microsoft. Lindows is a good start.

the more i like it! yeah i bet most of you didn't expect that.

I actually think their model is fabulous. Even moreso now that I read that once bought programs are then forever owned. That is superb and if I had an easy way of buying it I would. Alas no vendor out here in Australia and no credit card. And er... as of this week no job

So, is anything new/worthwhile about v4 that wasn't in v3?

http://lindows.com/newfeatures

Kevin

It would seem like Lindows.com could make more money if the distro was free and profits came from the CNR warehouse. I, and I image many, people aren't going to spend $50 on a Linux distro that I've never used before. Not when there are about 100000 free ones to choose from.

Well. Think of it the other way...

"I don't want to spend $200 on a Windows I have never used. I do want to spend $400 on Office though..."

What about creating a free live cd so everyone could test it? Or even, as Kevin Arvin suggested, release the install for free and make people pay for Click'n'Run only? I mean, we talk about it, but I'd rather test it myself

personally I always run my (suse 8.2) as root.
when I want to install new software, I don't need to login as root, when I want to edit some files (or add a new mount point for my new digital camera, I don't have to log in as root) When I want to sync with my Pocketpc I.... ok there the problem starts as there are several programs that will NOT let you run as root for some stupid reason.

I want to use my computer, I want to fiddle and I want the minimum of fuss while I learn my new OS. typing in this poxy root password is idiotic - I know the risks and I accept them, but in all honesty, it's not MUCH of a risk is it?

Lindows has the right idea, just wish I could try it out before I fork out the cashola (having already bought Suse 8.2 I'm not that keen to buy another Linux os to "test)

"personally I always run my (suse 8.2) as root."

Yes, and now nasty trojans can screw up my whole box, not just my user account! Crackers don't even have to bother trying to elevate privileges on my box. I just give it away to those skript-kiddies. And I love playing russian roulette, too!

"when I want to install new software, I don't need to login as root"

Look, you don't have to login as root to install software from YaST. It nicely pops up a dialog where you can type in your root password.

Running as root all the time is like being too lazy to buckle your safety belt.

As of now my cnr membership has expired and yes I still have access to everything I ever installed, including Star Office. I'm running it as we speak with KDE 3.1.3, slicker and karamba so it is totally Debian compatable. Beyond the hardware detection their use of xandros autorun is great it now also supports dvd autorun. Using backupCNR from lindowsdownload.com I've captured all of my farorite cnr packages as they were still debs. So if Lindows.com offends remember LindowsOS rules
take out the .com and replace with debby and all's ok.

"We work EXTREMELY hard here at Lindows.com trying to get every last detail right, and as you pointed out, it shows when you try using it."

Which is why having the default user be Administrator (a.k.a root) seems like such a mistake. As I said before, the kind of end users that LindowsOS targets are not necessarily going to know enough to know that the LindowsOS default to run as Administrator is insecure. You can be both user-friendly and discourage users from running as Administrator. Why not do it?

"personally I always run my (suse 8.2) as root."

As also J. J. Ramsey told you...
One does not have to run your desktop as root to be able to run (even) GUI-Programs as root - there's the small command "su" to switch to root:

Log in as normal user, open a konsole/xterm and type:

xhost +
su
[type the root-password]
konqueror &

The konqueror popping up runs with root-priveledges.
That can be seen with:

ps xau

The trailing "&" sends konqueror's process to the background. So the konsole/xterm can be used to run further programs under root.

Try it - it's easy!

You do not even have to use a terminal (konsole, xterm):
If you use KDE...

Right mouse click on the icon
"Properties" (the properties-dialog pops up)
switch to the "execute"-tab
"[x] run as different user", username: "root"
press [ok]

start the program with a click on the icon (left mouse click)
enter the root-password and say "[x] remember password"

Maybe the names are a bit different - my KDE is set to german language and I don't want to logout to switch to english.

thia is my first internet experience with linuxand not really in Lindows this is an Intel Dot Station that I picked up off Tigerdirect for about $150 us and with the recent demise of my BeOS box I decided to hook it up to the net,previously this thig was just being used as a educational toy for my 10 yr old daughter.of course this machine was built and designed for linux,so there are no hw issues herebut so far i have found the experience fairly easy,more so than i hasd expected,and seeing as how i flat out refuse to use M$ for email or chat applications this will be my portal to the net 'till i get another BeOS box built,BTW this one runs Debian,and if Lindows is easier than that it shoud be simple for a windoze user to run,the only problem i'm having here so far is this thing is not setup for an american keymap and came with a weird spanish mini KBthat I had to replace with an american one but some of the keys do differnt things than expected ,so if my puctuation is a little off blamit on that !

It looks like Japan , China , S.Korea plans to develop a new operating system which maybe Linux-based to challange windows.check this link: http://home.kyodo.co.jp

Jan, the problem I'm having using user in Lindows is when I'm dialing out using my external modem it would die and the log would say: "using noauth option reqires root priviledge." So what do they mean by this?

Lindows has been on my 4 computer's for 8 months. I've used many other ditro's and still play with a few other's. I do have to agree that it would be nice to have Lindows set up a user account and keep the Root separate during install. As Linux becomes more popular there will be more virus attacks towards it. I dragged my feet at the cost factor, but once I gave in and tried it - I really liked it. Other distro's would have various problems or not recognize hardware. I represent a lot of newbies who do not know or really want to know how to get into the insides and "make" OS work. Lindows is not perfect, but it is does everything I need from a Operating System. I'll be paying for another year of C-n-R, even if I don't download another item. Why? I like what they are doing and I want the company to succeed. $50 a year is not a lot to ask for supporting a good system.

What's so hard about typing apt-get?

Remembering the freaking command.

About once every 2 months I have some problems SCPing my files to a server with Fugu. 50% of the time it's because the webmistress forgot to give me the correct permissions, the other 50% of the time it's because my known-hosts file has become corrupted.

Every single cotton picking time I've got to go and look up the exact name of the command I want and the path name to the file I want to kill. Alas, this is something I've got to do by the CLI, I can't get there via the GUI. (I remember it right now because I just did it 30 minutes ago, but I guarantee you, in 2 months time, I'll have to look it up again.)

In the GUI a user can literally see several ways to attack the problem. Even in a program they've never used, or seldom use. Nobody had to teach me how to use Fugu to transfer my files.

If it weren't for the email I've saved, I'd get to the kadymae% prompt under the CLI and have no clue what to do or how to get there.

---

And as soon as Lindows comes out with a PPC distro, I'll be happy to give it a whirl on my iMac. Another *nix designed just for the desktop sounds like a really nice thing.

:)

Kevin Arvin, they do have a money back guarantee so what do you have to lose, it also comes with the live cd.

The author mentions Win4Lin for playing all your windows games.

Well, good luck if you can get the latest and greatest games working, because, quite simply, you won't be able to !

Basically, 80% of games will not work with Lindows (or any other Linux distro for that matter)

Bottom line, if your a gamer, you still need windows - sad, but true.

I have personally witnessed Roberts trials and tribulations with Linux, having worked with him. I have watched the boy get excited to only endup disapointed, or have a crashed system. I come from a long line folks who have only believed that the command line is the way to go. It looks like it finally here for the enduser desktop. Most users, surf, type, spreadsheet, IM, and the rest is a bunch a garbage that they download as they are surfing around and they think it sounds cool, of course this garbage is what screws the machine up.

"Bottom line, if your a gamer, you still need windows - sad, but true."

I'm a gamer. And I don't run Windows anywhere. Linux, and that's it.

You see, if your a gamer, you DON'T need Windows. If your a gamer, you will use something like PS2. I mean, seriously. Do I want to play on a little 19 inch monitor, or a 32 Flat Screen TV sitting comfortably on my couch?

Secondly, I know the percentages were off the top of your head, but I find that there are a number of popular games that come out these days that can be run on linux. In fact, companies are now turning around and starting to support Linux in some cases (NeverWinter Nights, and RTCW: Enemy Territory, which is even free, to boot).

My friend hated Windows, so he bought Lindows with the Click n Run thing. He liked it for a while, but had to switch back to Windows and now is firmly entrenched in XP. He recently tried to sell me his CNR subscription password.

The reason he had to switch back? HIS KIDS.

His son complained that he couldn't run his Windows games that he got off his friends. His daughter complained that she couldn't run the games that came in the cereal boxes. They could run SOME with Wine, but not ALL. And these kids whined about how important that one game they can't run is to them until he reloaded Windows.

So *until Wine works 100%*, Linux isn't going to get anywhere meaningful with Joe Sixpack and his all-important children. My friend was happy and didn't care about games, but his kids DID. And being a complete newbie, he couldn't handle anything more than what it would take to install a Windows game on Windows - ie. no configuring text files, etc. You guys are the "Make It Easy" people, you should make Wine easy - and complete. Do it for free and *release the code*! A major complaint about Lindows is that you are very stingy and overprotective with your code. That's fine, but your Linux competitors release theirs, putting you at an instant disadvantage. You're losing potential sales daily because of word-of-mouth and your refusal to join the community to a greater extent than required by law (and you're in a grey area there as well, I hear).

Invest in Wine, Kevin! As long as nearly every developer in the world is writing solely for Windows and you can't run their apps, you're doomed. THAT is the "airsupply" that Bill Gates wants to cut you off from... It's got to be seamless integration and perfect operation. If you're not BETTER than Windows, why would anybody switch? Don't give me the price - with piracy, Windows and all the apps and games in the world are effectively free anyways.

If you help the Wine project out, you'll lose the stigma Lindows has of being greedy corporate slimeballs that is hindering your adoption by the Linux geeks and the open-source crowd. Hey, IBM used to be *THE* corporate slimeballs, but they've given enough back that nearly every geek I know buys IBM Thinkpads now to run Linux on, just to support them. Apple used to be pathetic and a laughing stock with geeks, but now with OSX and some good steps towards openness, lots of geeks are supporting them as well. If you fix your image by "giving back" and making improvements that affect *every* linux user out there (not just the Lindows subscribers), you can be more an IBM and less a SCO in the eyes of the community. And that is what you want in a world of 200+ distros. What are you willing to give up in order to survive and grow? Because THIS is competition. Make me an offer.

If the author had any intentions of being taken seriously, he'd have bothered to at least run a spell checker. The horrendious grammatical errors show his ignorance enough without even this simple step.

It's a review by a cave man: "I M Grok! Me like Lindows! Me Smart!".

My wife's cheap computer died (cpu burn-out) and after replacing the MB/chip and getting a decent case, I decided to try Lindows 4.0 (she was using w2k). In short, it works great. She hasn't complained and I haven't had any problems at all.

I really liked how easy it was for me to get it up an going in less than an hour. The simplicity and realiablity of CNR is easily worth the 5.00 per month (I can quit at any time).

I highly recommend it to anyone who is setting a computer for a novice user and doesn't want any grief. Everything just works.

Maybe if you like advertising, branding, and marketing worked into every last corner of the OS. I got a PC with Lindows pre-loaded to use as a file and application server at work last week. (It's one of the tiny Via Mini-ITX boxes...very cool) I gave Lindows a chance (well, about 10 minutes till I could stand it no longer) then wiped it out and put Mandrake 9.1 on it.
--
LindowsOS is NOT meant to be used as a file and print server moron! LindowsOS is as desktop operating system not a server.

> Log in as normal user, open a konsole/xterm and type:
>
> xhost +

Please don't do that. You're giving everyone in the whole wide universe the right to connect to your Xserver, and if ever there's a security hole in it, you're toast.

Much better to just give out the minimum level of access required; if you're using xhost this isn't possible since it dishes out privileges based on the machine that the request come from. The best we can do in this case is "xhost +local:", which would give all local users rights to the display. This should be OK for a single-user machine.

If you want more fine-grained access-control investigate "xauth".

CnR is a neat idea but not everyone has the availablility of high-speed connections. I'm afaid at dial-up speeds CnR is not very practical. For the price of CnR for a year is the library available on CDrom. I would certainly like to try Lindows.